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Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

I guess that a Despoiler's WS bump for taking two melee weapons is 25 points?

OTOH, War Dogs HO!!!

'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Racerguy180 wrote:
rules come and go, models are forever...like herpes.
 
   
Made in ca
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader






I am going to be getting one of the Apoc Knights boxes from a friend, and going to use it as a start of a Chaos Knights army.

So, I'll have a tyrant and two Autocannon Wardogs.

So, that's 1000pts right there ha ha.

What's the general idea on what I should fill the other 1045pts with? Lots of wardogs, some wardogs and a another titanic knight or two? Another Tyrant?

How about leaving aside 100ish points to summon a unit of deamons to hold objectives with?

Wolfspear's 2k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

 jaredb wrote:
I am going to be getting one of the Apoc Knights boxes from a friend, and going to use it as a start of a Chaos Knights army.

So, I'll have a tyrant and two Autocannon Wardogs.

So, that's 1000pts right there ha ha.

What's the general idea on what I should fill the other 1045pts with? Lots of wardogs, some wardogs and a another titanic knight or two? Another Tyrant?

How about leaving aside 100ish points to summon a unit of deamons to hold objectives with?



How about setting aside 200-300 points for a small detachment of Thousand Suns so you can turn off Invulnerable Saves? (Death Hex, which is a DP only power) 200 points for the DP, 90-100 for a unit of Rubrics to hold objectives.

Which house would be your preference?

'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Racerguy180 wrote:
rules come and go, models are forever...like herpes.
 
   
Made in ca
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader






I want to only run one detachment, I know that limits potential strengths, but I don't like mixing books,

I've not looked at the houses at all, really. But, I do like the Iconoclasts for the oaths.

Wolfspear's 2k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Dont forget you can summon deamons if you want to, they dont have to be a seperate detachment as they can be summoned by any chaos character and our knights do count as characters if you give them a relic or warlotd trait
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





For the pure knights players who use war dogs. How many war dogs do you feel is enough for a pure chaos knight army? Is 4 war dogs plus the big knights enough? Or do you think need to run even more.

The war dogs are the ones you use as the first wave, so called right? With maybe just one on a backline objective, so that your other knights can move forward?
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

I’ve used Wardogs quite a bit and even more so in 9th. You have to be in plenty of places. 4 big knights or 3 with a few dogs never feels like enough board coverage. I have been using a shorty tyrant, double thermal, then filling out the rest with thermal/glaive dogs, using iconoclast with constitution and pride fueled fury. Using that list, I’m able to get upfield fast in the matchups that warrant it, the dogs can use obscuring terrain and charge weakly defensed objectives.
Damaging the Wardogs doesn’t really matter until they are dead, they move at 15” all game and never hit less than a +4 in combat, and usually are swinging with lots of attacks.
Plus the tyrant and thermal knight will punish poorly positioned heavy units. I buff up my tyrant with dominance, veil and the obsec trait.


Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

I run 2 titanic knights (a Despoiler and a Desecrator) and 6 War Dogs (2 with autocannons and the others with thermal spear/chain cleaver). I've not had a chance to play them in 9th yet though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/24 14:37:16


[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah, I actually wonder if 2 knights and 6 wardogs might be more optimal. But wow, this means I need to get more wardogs! lol

I would also make a case for only running thermal spear wardogs though. Even if you end up using one to baby sit a rear objective. Instead of running autocannon wardog. The reason is that with terrain rules these days, it unlikely you can to shoot 60 inches at what you want. 30 inches range is good enough to a midfield objective. More importantly, a thermal spear wardog has the melee power to fend off and fight against possible deep strikers which are the more dangerous threat I feel. Plus they are cheaper to boot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/20 00:23:41


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Moirax with two lightning locks are more likely to stand off a moderate melee threat than the thermal spear wardog. Their overwatch is actually kinda scary, while the Wardog's melee threat won't matter if it dies before it can swing. I guess it depends on whether your opponent has mechanics to make their deep strike charges reliable or not.
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Yeah, I actually wonder if 2 knights and 6 wardogs might be more optimal. But wow, this means I need to get more wardogs! lol

I would also make a case for only running thermal spear wardogs though. Even if you end up using one to baby sit a rear objective. Instead of running autocannon wardog. The reason is that with terrain rules these days, it unlikely you can to shoot 60 inches at what you want. 30 inches range is good enough to a midfield objective. More importantly, a thermal spear wardog has the melee power to fend off and fight against possible deep strikers which are the more dangerous threat I feel. Plus they are cheaper to boot.


Aren't we still allowed to shoot the autocannons in melee?

'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Racerguy180 wrote:
rules come and go, models are forever...like herpes.
 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yes, we are allowed to shoot autocannons in melee. Thermal spear wardogs are better in melee because of their reaper chain cleavers. That's all.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

Yeah but that chain glaive is the correct melee profile: str 12, ap -3 3D, iconoclast on the charge makes then ap4 with 5 attacks, 6 with pride fueled fury under half wounds. I know we see less and less aggressors and centurions now, but there are lots of units that do not want to get charged by a melee WarDog.

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





My 4 War Dogs are assembled! I can now run a pure chaos knights army of 3 big knights are 4 war dogs now if I am inclined.
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

With local gaming starting up again in a few weeks, this is the list I'll be running at 1,800 points:

CHAOS KNIGHTS SUPER-HEAVY DETACHMENT (9CP, 1,790PT)

SUB-FACTION: Iconoclast household
HOUSEHOLD AMBITION: Conquerors without mercy
HOUSEHOLD BONDS: Endless torment

LORD OF WAR
Knight Desecrator (410): Warlord, Character, Heavy stubber, Thunderstrike gauntlet, Titanic feet
ARTIFACTS OF TYRANNY: The diamonas
WARLORD TRAITS: Warp-haunted hull
STRATAGEMS: Vow of dominance (2CP)

Knight Despoiler (500): Character, Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer, Ironstorm missile pod, Meltagun, Thermal cannon, Titanic feet
ARTIFACTS OF TYRANNY: Tzeentchian pyrothrone
STRATAGEMS: Corrupted heirlooms (1CP)

War Dogs
War Dog (140): Meltagun, Thermal spear and reaper chain-cleaver
War Dog (140): Meltagun, Thermal spear and reaper chain-cleaver

War Dogs
War Dog (140): Meltagun, Thermal spear and reaper chain-cleaver
War Dog (160): Meltagun, Two War Dog autocannons

War Dogs
War Dog (140): Meltagun, Thermal spear and reaper chain-cleaver
War Dog (160): Meltagun, Two War Dog autocannons

[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in de
Toothy 3rd Gen True Hybrid





I like the idea of a single Dreadblade or a pair of Dreadblads being cursed to be swept around the galaxy by the winds of Chaos. The army list should field one or (maybe) two chunky Chaos Knights and a bunch of daemons summoned up by the storm.
So, I am just wondering if this kind of Chaos soup could be built to have any semblance of competitive viability, and how I should start planning for a list at a commonly played level, say 1800 points.
Which Chaos Knights would be most useful in a role as commander/oversized distraction carnifexes, and what kind of daemon support would suit them best?

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I'm really fond of the double-Avenger Vow of Carnage knight with the Rune to give it a 5++ in close combat. I'd probably give it Infernal Quest for the super-ObSec as well.

If you're going beyond a single knight you'll need to fill out a super-heavy detachment, perhaps with a Wardog or two. I also really like a Knight Maegera with the Khornate Target and Knight Diabolus.

On paper, I also like the idea of a knight with the Gauntlet of Ascension. The full rerolls to hit and wound are awesome for a knight, and the possibility of using Deathgrip against some of the overpowered Drukari characters out there makes me smile.

I'll allow others to comment on the daemon support, I'm not very knowledgeable on that subject. All I'll say is that nurglings seem to offer a lot of board presence cheaply, and knights really benefit from that.

Edit: Both the double-Avenger and Maegera would benefit from the custom household traits Bold Tyrants and Pride-Fueled Fury. Extra AP at 12'' really benefits the Avenger cannon and the lightning cannon, not to mention the rad cleanser.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/02 12:55:20


 
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

This is a pretty interesting watch:


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/29 19:51:15


[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Hmmm, this is very interesting.

I just saw a leak on the revamped secondaries. For Titan Hunter now, you only get 4 VP for killing one titanic and 9 VP for killing two.

So, if you only take 1 Titanic, it actually makes it worthless for the opponent to bring Titan Hunter. Even even if you brought two Titanic units, its kind of a wash. 9VP is about average for what you can get from doing okish on a secondary.

This is kinda huge for Knight lists. We can bring 2 titanic and fill out the rest with War Dogs and actually, our opponent will only get a max of 9 off us from Titan Hunter.

If we take a superheavy detachment and soup in another patrol of CSM or DG or something, as long as we keep to two superheavies or less, we are actually not giving away any obvious free secondaries.

(Btw, I thought of a kind of counter Drukhari meta play. If we bring one or two Infernal chaos knights and storm both up the field on turn 1, then pay the d3 damage to make them T9. Dark Lances are going to have a very difficult time penetrating. They are Str 8 trying to wound a T9 knight. So they can only wound on 5s. Plus we can rotate ion shield for a 4++. I think you need to shoot a heck of a ton of dark lances through to get through something that has a T9 and 4++, And Drukhari melee is good, but probably won't do much against T8 right? They will need 6s to wound unless they have poison. They also don't like to get out and fight on turn 1. Turn 1 is mostly shooting and getting into position for Durkhari.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/31 05:41:30


 
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

I played my first two games of 9th edition with my Chaos Knights yesterday...

I thought I wouldn't like the obscuring terrain rule or the new overwatch mechanism, but actually both work okay. The main disadvantage being a Chaos Knights player is not having obsec. It'll be good when we get our codex and some more faction-specific secondaries too. I went with assassinate, attrition and domination yesterday.

[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

Chaos soup running a bunch of A. Constitution and Bold tyrants (I think) Wardogs with Magnus and some demons just finished 4th or 5th in a major this weekend in an article on Goonhammer.

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut






Would love some input on the following:

I want to field a thousand sons detachment with sorcerer (teleporting with sorcerers facade), daemon prince, 3x spawns, 2x helldrakes and combine this with 7 wardogs. A successful tournament list with the same setup includes this:

Chaos knight super heavy detachment *Household?*

War Dog: stubber, thermal spear and chain cleaver (WT: infernal quest, Relic: Veil of medriel)

2x Wardog moirax: Graviton pulsar, Seige claw, rad cleanser

2x Wardog moirax: Graviton pulsar, Seige claw, rad cleanser

2x Wardog moirax: Graviton pulsar, Seige claw, rad cleanser

Is this a good setup? Would any of you switch something (units or weapons)? Psychic awakening engine war book got some nice bonuses to pick from but I struggle to find the best setup..
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

I know abominable constitution is one half of any War Dog heavy list. Move 15 is crazy good with never degrading movement. I use Pride Fueled Fury with it to just turn each WarDog into a threat, even at 1 wound.

You could try A. C. With infamous hereditary or harrying packs, each has their use. I like infamous if you’re using lots of thermal/glaive dogs because hitting with those melta shots is key to popping raiders and the like.

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Brymm wrote:
I know abominable constitution is one half of any War Dog heavy list. Move 15 is crazy good with never degrading movement. I use Pride Fueled Fury with it to just turn each WarDog into a threat, even at 1 wound.

You could try A. C. With infamous hereditary or harrying packs, each has their use. I like infamous if you’re using lots of thermal/glaive dogs because hitting with those melta shots is key to popping raiders and the like.


Considering the 'Abominable constitution' and 'harrying packs' combo. Constant movement and the extra flexibility is good.

I was also thinking about 'Endless torment' and get that single reroll for the amount of shots with my Graviton pulsar and rad cleanser combi.
   
Made in fi
Fresh-Faced New User




I've been playing every now and then with single Despoiler and couple of wardogs in a soup list but recently I've been thinking about expanding to mono-Knights. Does anyone have advice if I should take at 2000 points
1 Tyrant
2 Despoilers
3 Wardogs

or

3 Despoilers
4 Wardogs

Does a Tyrant have enough firepower to justify taking it instead of another Despoiler and another Wardog? It sure loses in wounds and board presence.
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

Myytti666 wrote:
I've been playing every now and then with single Despoiler and couple of wardogs in a soup list but recently I've been thinking about expanding to mono-Knights. Does anyone have advice if I should take at 2000 points
1 Tyrant
2 Despoilers
3 Wardogs

or

3 Despoilers
4 Wardogs

Does a Tyrant have enough firepower to justify taking it instead of another Despoiler and another Wardog? It sure loses in wounds and board presence.


I'd definitely go with route 2. Personally, I go with a single warlord Despoiler, a single armiger (dreadblade for heroic intervention), and a slew of Helverin. in addition to my TS auxilaries.

'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Racerguy180 wrote:
rules come and go, models are forever...like herpes.
 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

I think that there’s not much of a difference between the output/firepower/role between a Tyrant and Despoiler, so if you’re trying to really be efficient, Despoiler all the way. If you’re not doing Forgeworld, it seems that three double thermal Iconoclast knights of whatever you want for your house trait, plus Wardogs to fill is probably the best list you can really make. They are brutal in melee with the bonus to stomp feet, put out a lot of decent range melta death and don’t break the bank points wise.

Again, a pretty high place finish recently at a GT using lots of thermal/glaive Wardogs to back up Magnus. If you can think of a big Knight to replace Magnus, you could probably replicate some of that success.

Some food for thought.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah three double thermal knights with the cheap rocket tops, plus 4 melee Wardogs with melta is exactly 2000 points of twisted steal and sex appeal. I suggest either Endless Torment or the infamous heredity/pin point cruelty combo!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/15 16:12:40


Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in fi
Fresh-Faced New User




 Brymm wrote:
I think that there’s not much of a difference between the output/firepower/role between a Tyrant and Despoiler, so if you’re trying to really be efficient, Despoiler all the way. If you’re not doing Forgeworld, it seems that three double thermal Iconoclast knights of whatever you want for your house trait, plus Wardogs to fill is probably the best list you can really make. They are brutal in melee with the bonus to stomp feet, put out a lot of decent range melta death and don’t break the bank points wise.

Again, a pretty high place finish recently at a GT using lots of thermal/glaive Wardogs to back up Magnus. If you can think of a big Knight to replace Magnus, you could probably replicate some of that success.

Some food for thought.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah three double thermal knights with the cheap rocket tops, plus 4 melee Wardogs with melta is exactly 2000 points of twisted steal and sex appeal. I suggest either Endless Torment or the infamous heredity/pin point cruelty combo!


Alright, thanks for the tips. I have never tried double thermal knight. I'm just concerned if they have enough shots compared to battle cannon and gatling cannon to deal with infantry hordes if the enemy has no vehicles or monsters. Or do you just stomp the hordes in melee? How do you deal with storm shield infantry? Feels like the high quality melta shots are wasted on invulnerable saves. I suppose you can easily remove invulnerable save with Death hex in soup but how about mono-Knights.
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Eaton Rapids, MI

The idea has always been that any Iconoclast knight is an elite melee unit in that it puts out 15 st 8 ap-3 1d3 d attacks on the charge. That just smashes so much face without needing to buy a sword or fist. Since those slots are free now on the arms, the cheapest shooting weapons have been the thermals, and in 8th they were by FAR the cheapest option. Now at 75 an arm instead of 50, I think running a avenger and thermal is a fine option, but the point remains the same: you are a melee army that can also shoot.

As far as shooting goes, 6d6 thermal cannon shots is brutal fire power that should be aimed at whatever dedicated anti knight things they have. Being 36” range on a 12” chassis means you can usually position to get shots at what you need dead, more so if you go Constitution or Dark Forging.

Some food for thought!

Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I believe three with double-thermals and the indirect missle pod on top, along with four Warglaive/Wardogs is right at 2000 points. There are a lot of good options for build-your-house, but the Endless Torment (re-roll number of shots, per weapon) really goes far with that particular load-out.

I'm not afraid to shoot thermal cannons at Eradicators or even things like Incubi, especially if there aren't any anti-vehicle vehicles out there. I believe that Knights really need to have good target selection, but its a little easier for us in that there are likely to be some units out there that don't threaten us very much.

You are paying for really good melee, and you've got a good bit of shooting that you can use every turn with fall back shoot/charge at will. You've got to use everything to the fullest to overcome the low model count that Knights suffer from.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/23 11:05:55


 
   
 
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