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 Kanluwen wrote:
Do we have prices yet for the Eliminators?

Everything else is fairly easy to suss out, but the Eliminators could be a wonky price point.

I am betting $50. Same as the other 3-man squads.

I figured out what I am going to do. I am going to cut the Shadowspear Sergeant's Sniper Bolt Rifle off and give him an Instigator Bolt Carbine instead. Then Pistol Pose Marine can be the Sergeant for that Squad and I will still be able to make all my Las Fusil Squads. Boom! Problem solved!

I rather like the idea of eliminators, and the option lover within me loves the head choice. I just don’t have the motivation to do Primaris. I already bought six of them and assembled one. Not a lick of paint on them yet.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Do we have prices yet for the Eliminators?

Everything else is fairly easy to suss out, but the Eliminators could be a wonky price point.

I am betting $50. Same as the other 3-man squads.

I figured out what I am going to do. I am going to cut the Shadowspear Sergeant's Sniper Bolt Rifle off and give him an Instigator Bolt Carbine instead. Then Pistol Pose Marine can be the Sergeant for that Squad and I will still be able to make all my Las Fusil Squads. Boom! Problem solved!

BOLS claims they'll be 50 bucks. not sure what their source is but useally when they announce the prices it's accurate

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/09/next-weeks-40k-space-marines-products-pricing-confirmed-2.html

BrianDavion wrote:
BOLS claims they'll be 50 bucks. not sure what their source is but useally when they announce the prices it's accurate

That'd be AUD$84.

That's a lot of money for three mono-pose Marines. Still, could have been worse. Could have cost as much as three mono-pose Terminators.

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Do we have prices yet for the Eliminators?

Everything else is fairly easy to suss out, but the Eliminators could be a wonky price point.

I am betting $50. Same as the other 3-man squads.

I figured out what I am going to do. I am going to cut the Shadowspear Sergeant's Sniper Bolt Rifle off and give him an Instigator Bolt Carbine instead. Then Pistol Pose Marine can be the Sergeant for that Squad and I will still be able to make all my Las Fusil Squads. Boom! Problem solved!

BOLS claims they'll be 50 bucks. not sure what their source is but useally when they announce the prices it's accurate

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/09/next-weeks-40k-space-marines-products-pricing-confirmed-2.html

not bad. $100 this week. Something like $150 in three years when they actually get around to releasing the stupid Impulsor and when the Imperial Fists Supplement is release(provided the Crimson Fists are in said supplement).

 bullyboy wrote:

ThatMG wrote:
I read the raven guard rule and was like RIP Knight players who make their models characters.

This is thematically hilarious, not as funny as a dude on the ground instant killing a flyer cause "thou shall not pass wl trait."

However good enough.

Knights in soup lists won't care. Face a Ravenguard player.....just don't spend the CP to become a character, simple.

Well not being able to take knights very good relics and traits is disadvantage right there

tneva82 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

ThatMG wrote:
I read the raven guard rule and was like RIP Knight players who make their models characters.

This is thematically hilarious, not as funny as a dude on the ground instant killing a flyer cause "thou shall not pass wl trait."

However good enough.

Knights in soup lists won't care. Face a Ravenguard player.....just don't spend the CP to become a character, simple.

Well not being able to take knights very good relics and traits is disadvantage right there

Not a huge deal breaker if the marine player has banked on killing characters. Worse for Knight list where you have to have a warlord.

Aren't there specific threads for discussing the various previewed chapters and their rules?

This thread is for discussing specific rumours in the OP, some of which are now proven to be false. Its very likely, given the mistake re the order of supplements, that the other rumours from this source are bogus too.

Since the original purpose of this thread is now passed, I don't know if the mods want to rename it and move it to an appropriate section of the forum, or close it?

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
It also seems like they are minimizing design and material costs by fitting new kits on as little sprues as possible.

I doubt that either of those costs are what is driving this trend (and to me it doesn't look like the new kits have less design time put into them than the older ones, quite the opposite) but rather wanting to be able to produce more models with each mould machine, smaller boxes taking up less shelf space (a crucial consideration for a company which runs a lot of physical shops, apparently on quite tight margins) and being cheaper to ship.

True, that might be an issue. too. You can fit three ork buggies where a single deff dread used to be.


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 Oguhmek wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
They're moving away from options though. My guess is to try and better protect their IP from the 3rd party casters and such.

It also seems like they are minimizing design and material costs by fitting new kits on as little sprues as possible. Both the death guard and the ork buggy kits seem to be doing this.

I think it is actually the other way around. Each project is given a sprue budget (size) based on the expected size of the finished model. Then the designer works to create as much cool stuff as he can fit on the sprue. Sometimes some things won’t fit on a sprue, but makes it into another kit later (alluded to in interviews). The monopose nature of modern minis seems more down to design philosophy than sprue space IMO. They want to maximize the visual impact of the finished build, that is why options are not prioritized. Hopefully it is just a trend, which with good feedback from the community, will pass in time.

Might be, but I also think that how miniatures are designed has had a huge impact. In the past the designers were sculpting prototypes and then tried to fit them onto a sprue, nowadays they are designing a finished model in CAD and then (with tool assistance) cut that miniature into pieces so it can be mould-injected. Adding options to a model designed like that is a lot more work because you don't actually have an arm-bit you just replace with something new, it's one of three half-a-torso-with-one-leg-and-an-arm bit that fit together as a single model.

Unless a designer explicitly designs a model with "slots" (heads, combi-bolters, close combat weapon arms, ork glyphs), it's pretty hard to add variance outside of leaving off extra bits.

It also seems like they already done their test with DG and primaris - there are customizable kits for intercessors, inceptors, foetid bloat drones and plague marines, as well as cheap ETB and starter set options for them. Scroll across army pictures on the gallery and check which ones are bought and which ones are not. We have already decided that money > options, and GW has responded accordingly.

It says 3 Bolt Sniper Rifles in the description, but it's 6. The unused ones (3 or 6 depending on whether you use Las-Fusils and how good you're at getting a spare arm to line up) can be easily given to a Phobos dude, you even get enough "sniper" heads for 9 plus 1 for the Bolt Carbine. Even without sourcing camo cloaks/sculpting them the less hobby inclined can easily kit-bash double/tripple the amount of readily identifiable Eliminators with cheaper bodies. That's actually quite cool. Cheaper prices overall would be even cooler, but I like the snipers and they'll give me a ton of bits, so, eh, I'll get some.

If they had those ridiculous Van Saar half-weapons I'd pass.

Well, the new iron father is pretty crazy, even thematically. An iron hands that doesn't like the more bionics fixation, but is the guy who chops off hands, and has superior bionics himself (5+ fnp).

Rules wise he gives out 2+ BS and 5++ invulnerable saves to other units. And isn't exactly a slouch in combat or shooting.

Weird, and seems a no-brainer choice for IH armies.

I like that the Video for his release and the release of the Supplement says "Pre-Order August 14th"

Yeah, those are some pretty phenomenal rules. He buffs so much stuff and buffs it so well. Definitely a top choice for Iron Hands. Very thematic and very potent. Congrats, Iron Hands players, very jealous indeed.

I am really liking the fact that thusfar, all of the special characters we are getting are Marines that have crossed the Rubicon, not Chad, new guy Primaris Marine.

Yeah, its worth noting that the only restriction for his buffs is iron hands. Dreads? Sure. 2+ BS repulsor executioner with 5+ invulnerable? fine (and he repairs 3 wounds, so it should almost always be at the top statline) He creates a ridiculously resilient death blob which works just fine with other character buffs.

Very good rules depending on point costs. Will still need a captain though for the re-rolls.

 buddha wrote:
Very good rules depending on point costs. Will still need a captain though for the re-rolls.

Not if you‘re mono Iron Hands. They come with in-built re-rolls.


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Voss wrote:
Yeah, its worth noting that the only restriction for his buffs is iron hands. Dreads? Sure. 2+ BS repulsor executioner with 5+ invulnerable? fine (and he repairs 3 wounds, so it should almost always be at the top statline) He creates a ridiculously resilient death blob which works just fine with other character buffs.

Don’t forget that Iron Hands Repulsors have the Hawkshroud/Iyanden rule for checking the profile anyhow.

Mentioned it. Repairing 3 wounds should be sufficient to keep it on the top stat line. Its either full function or completely obliterated, and now gets a 5++ to stay up.

Has it been more or less confirmed we will get Salamanders and/or Black Templars as well in the near future or not?

 TBD wrote:
Has it been more or less confirmed we will get Salamanders and/or Black Templars as well in the near future or not?

There were 6 books 'teased'. There's some nonsense going around about "8", but it seems extremely likely that Templars will be rolled in with the other Sons of Dorn.
Salamanders are pretty much guaranteed.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 TBD wrote:
Has it been more or less confirmed we will get Salamanders and/or Black Templars as well in the near future or not?

There were 6 books 'teased'. There's some nonsense going around about "8", but it seems extremely likely that Templars will be rolled in with the other Sons of Dorn.
Salamanders are pretty much guaranteed.

There a rumours from an apparently fairly reputable source that Black Templar’s will get their rules as part of one of the Psychic Awakening books and that the Sons of Dorn book is IF and CF, but we’ll see how it all plays out.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 TBD wrote:
Has it been more or less confirmed we will get Salamanders and/or Black Templars as well in the near future or not?

There were 6 books 'teased'. There's some nonsense going around about "8", but it seems extremely likely that Templars will be rolled in with the other Sons of Dorn.
Salamanders are pretty much guaranteed.

There a rumours from an apparently fairly reputable source that Black Templar’s will get their rules as part of one of the Psychic Awakening books and that the Sons of Dorn book is IF and CF, but we’ll see how it all plays out.

I really suspect that this is the case. Makes kinda sense.

Ya, CFs can just be included in the IF supplement as an official successor with their own chapter trait, relics, characters, and a few other extra bonuses. That makes mechanical sense, but doing the same thing for BT doesn't. They are completely different and aren't even codex compliant.

Frankly, the biggest "non-codex compliant" thing for Black Templars is the whole Neophytes thing.

And that can be a special unit in a supplement.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Frankly, the biggest "non-codex compliant" thing for Black Templars is the whole Neophytes thing.

And that can be a special unit in a supplement.

More than the Angels and Wolves had before they got spun off into Supplements and flandersised to the nine hundreth degree.

Space Wolves began as an example of standard Marine Chapter.....

Frankly most Chapters if they had supplements and codexes would have as many truly "Unique" units as the Angels and Wolves - ie one or two.

dsraider1 wrote:
Ya, CFs can just be included in the IF supplement as an official successor with their own chapter trait, relics, characters, and a few other extra bonuses. That makes mechanical sense, but doing the same thing for BT doesn't. They are completely different and aren't even codex compliant.

Codex compliant doesn't matter for data sheets or rules or tabletop performance. As demonstrated by the Angels chapters, codex or non-codex doesn't even matter if a chapter gets a special snowflake book or not. BT have a couple extra special characters and a weird mixed troop unit, and that's it. For the purposes of a supplement they don't need anything CFs or IFs dont.

The sons of Dorn can all be put in a single supplement that's still smaller than the Ultramarine one. GW has plenty of room to handle them any way they want to. and I say that while looking forward to the IF book.

Voss wrote:

dsraider1 wrote:
Ya, CFs can just be included in the IF supplement as an official successor with their own chapter trait, relics, characters, and a few other extra bonuses. That makes mechanical sense, but doing the same thing for BT doesn't. They are completely different and aren't even codex compliant.

Codex compliant doesn't matter for data sheets or rules or tabletop performance. As demonstrated by the Angels chapters, codex or non-codex doesn't even matter if a chapter gets a special snowflake book or not. BT have a couple extra special characters and a weird mixed troop unit, and that's it. For the purposes of a supplement they don't need anything CFs or IFs dont.

The sons of Dorn can all be put in a single supplement that's still smaller than the Ultramarine one. GW has plenty of room to handle them any way they want to. and I say that while looking forward to the IF book.

Codex compliance actually is reflected in the rules now though, via doctrines. Only compliant chapters get them, and they don't make much sense for BT, who would arguably benefit from more aggressive rules. Also, IF traits and stratagems probably wouldn't reflect BT very well. Thus, you'd be better off writing BT rules from scratch instead of forcing them to use IF as a base. If they share no rules, why put them in the book?

Because the 'rules' section of the supplements so far has been about 1/8 of the (very short) supplement books.
They don't need to use IF as a base even if they do share a book, but it saves a lot of copypasta to put the related chapters together. Otherwise, you're just repeating info about Dorn and the feast of blades multiple times to no point or purpose.


Though doctrines have zip to do with codex compliance. If it did, neither BT nor even Salamanders (7 companies of 12 squads isn't what the codex mandates) would get them, and obviously they do. And DA and BA would get them already, and currently don't. Personally, I'd say 'codex compliant' means a lot less than people like to believe.

In any case, with the chapter specific doctrine bonuses so far its easy to show that its more about preferred tactics and nothing to do with the 'codex'- which doesn't forbid or encourage stabbing people double hard or sniper shots to the face. It's just what WS and RG do.

and the rest of the books has been history and a chapter breakdown, which also isn't relevant to black templars.

Some of the White Scars dice came mislabeled as Salamanders dice, so there’s the general assumption that they’ll be coming yet as well. I’m anxiously awaiting them.

 AduroT wrote:
Some of the White Scars dice came mislabeled as Salamanders dice, so there’s the general assumption that they’ll be coming yet as well. I’m anxiously awaiting them.

Hopefully? I don't recall seeing any dice for Raven Guard and Iron Hands in the preview article. Are they getting any and GW just didn't feel like mention it?

Because it would be kind of silly to give half the chapters special dice while the other half gets nothing. Would go pretty well with my expectation that I get nothing for my Imperial Fists because reasons, but wouldn't help one bit.