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Cronch wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
If they are choosing metal because it is cheaper, why are they not leveraging that into more attractive prices for the consumers?

Nurglitch wrote:
Maybe what they're producing is their compromise on reaching both gamers and hobbyists.

“Warcaster: Honey, it’s time to settle.”

The prices aren't bad, they just aren't "OMG This KS is so freaking awesome I can buy a hundred models for the cost of one at retail" kind of prices. PP is not steep discounting this KS, which isn't a bad thing. It's just that a lot of other wargame companies have offered steep discounts to encourage KS backing.

So, they're not leveraging the metal into cheaper prices if what you're saying?

Think of the metal production as 'CoronaVirus' protection, given how many KS emails I've received telling me that production is now delayed. PP is producing these locally in England so they might be the most reliable supplier if Chinese based production slows down any more.

I fear that over here in the UK we are just about to start hitting the 'shut down everything for 3 months' button

hopefully we'll cope a bit better than Italy, but we're running about 10 days behind them on the infection curve and they've just done so

Honestly if "shut everything down" is going to be the action I'd rather it got started sooner rather than later. Though 3 months sounds rather long?

China's only just starting to get back online, and they could shut things down far harder than I think we will dare to do politically,

so I anticipate the gov will try a couple of weeks but keep extending and extending as infections carry on happening

https://youtu.be/vRvRuwUxVJY

A hands on video with some of the Warcaster models

Personally I'm torn between the Marcher worlds and and their "Browncoat" motley appearance of rough rebels against the universe. Plus they've got those huge rail-cannon type guns going on with their jacks.


Or the Aeternus Continuum with their bio-mech marauder and general asthetic; dark themes; twisted machine religion and their more feral looking jack with the huge claw and such.


Both are themes I really like and it sounds like Xenos are a fair long way off. The video also really interests me because seeing them in someone's hands they do look bigger and the casting and metal look really nice.



I just wish PP was showing a bit more stuff that would likely not hit until KS 2 or 3 or beyond - ergo getting a greater idea of the diversity and appearance of more of the armed forces. It's a bit like genestealer cults first wave at the present for me - there's a flavour and taste, but not enough to really make them feel like full "armies" as such. Of course because all three are in the very same position it evens out a bit as they are all competing on the same footing.

It's also interesting to see that even the few expansion models they are showing are mostly fitting the same kind of roles (at least based on appearance). It would be nice to see some variety, however it might be that balance wise PP is going for a game where armies are different in stats and appearance, but functionally have the same core structural elements.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
If they are choosing metal because it is cheaper, why are they not leveraging that into more attractive prices for the consumers?

Nurglitch wrote:
Maybe what they're producing is their compromise on reaching both gamers and hobbyists.

“Warcaster: Honey, it’s time to settle.”

The prices aren't bad, they just aren't "OMG This KS is so freaking awesome I can buy a hundred models for the cost of one at retail" kind of prices. PP is not steep discounting this KS, which isn't a bad thing. It's just that a lot of other wargame companies have offered steep discounts to encourage KS backing.

So, they're not leveraging the metal into cheaper prices if what you're saying?

Think of the metal production as 'CoronaVirus' protection, given how many KS emails I've received telling me that production is now delayed. PP is producing these locally in England so they might be the most reliable supplier if Chinese based production slows down any more.

Make no mistake, PP casts in metal because they have the tools, the equipment, and they pay their casters minimum wage. It's cheap and easy for them.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
So, they’re far lower prices than PP’s normal retail prices?

No, they are higher then PP's retail prices because they are passing the cut KS takes off to the customer while still expecting to take home normal retail profits themselves.

Here's how someone from the FB group is playtesting the jacks



Ingenius, but also demonstrates the problem... someone could make a killing pre-drilling / magnetizing kits!

 Ordana wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
So, they’re far lower prices than PP’s normal retail prices?

No, they are higher then PP's retail prices because they are passing the cut KS takes off to the customer while still expecting to take home normal retail profits themselves.

Now I’m really confused because I was asking in response to someone’s claim that the prices weren’t bad.

Pretty standard pricing. $15 for a solo, $30 for a light jack, $25 for a 3 man unit. That's pretty in line with anything else PP sells. Starter box rolls up to $85 value going for $70, which is basically a free solo plus the dice and stuff. Pretty standard bundle value. It's definitely not higher than retail.

 LunarSol wrote:
Pretty standard pricing. $15 for a solo, $30 for a light jack, $25 for a 3 man unit. That's pretty in line with anything else PP sells. Starter box rolls up to $85 value going for $70, which is basically a free solo plus the dice and stuff. Pretty standard bundle value. It's definitely not higher than retail.

*looks at the $50 price tag of a MonPoc starter, then a $40 WM/H starter*

$20 to $30 more based on the price of their other starters is not in line with their normal retail pricing.
This is significantly higher than any of their other games to buy into.
Plus, there’s shipping costs to factor in as well, unless you’re in the US.
It seems to me that they have pretty much reserved their market to the US alone.
I personally can’t justify upwards of $100US for a starter set.

No matter what you want to compare to this KS, it’s expensive.

They've hit £325K and thus unlocked the mercenary hero!


They've also issued an update to the value for some of the packs and increased the contents!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/privateerpress/warcaster-neo-mechanika/posts/2781990

The MonPoc starter is a $30 monster and a $20 unit pack with the dice and map being free. No discount on the models. The WMH starters are repacks of PVC jacks made literally a decade ago. The individual prices of the models in the starter are in line with PPs normal pricing and the price of the starter itself is in line or even a hair cheaper than the normal cost for such a bundle. It costs more, but its also a buy in that gets you closer to the real game than either of the two you mentioned.

 LunarSol wrote:
Pretty standard pricing. $15 for a solo, $30 for a light jack, $25 for a 3 man unit. That's pretty in line with anything else PP sells. Starter box rolls up to $85 value going for $70, which is basically a free solo plus the dice and stuff. Pretty standard bundle value. It's definitely not higher than retail.

The misconception seems to be that prices “pretty in line with anything else PP sells” are not registering as equivalent to “bad” when they should. They only barely seem good in comparison with GW prices. PP keeps shedding customers without acquiring new ones, and while their price strategy is not the entire reason it is certainly an important one.

The prices are pretty in line with metals and resins from other companies these days too. The main problem is just that most other games are running smaller model counts that make things seem a lot cheaper. I'm not sure of any major game these days that I can get a single model for less than $15 unless its really small or in PVC.

 LunarSol wrote:
The prices are pretty in line with metals and resins from other companies these days too. The main problem is just that most other games are running smaller model counts that make things seem a lot cheaper. I'm not sure of any major game these days that I can get a single model for less than $15 unless its really small or in PVC.

Depends on the game, I guess. I’m a fan of Bones, Nolzur’s, most PVC and hard plastic sellers that aren’t GW (with some exceptions), but they aren’t the real competition for this. Last weekend, MM sold Wrath of Kong’s minis for insanely cheap prices per mini. When Mk3 dropped, I found plenty of PP starters for $10 or less, Grind for $8, ASOIAF boxes for $10, SWLegion for $5 a box, and so on. Customers have more options now than ever before. Buying a large skirmish force at $15 per one dude and $30 for a robot may have seemed reasonable when there were no other options, but they don’t fly now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I was interested in this for the game, the pieces would seem stupidly expensive compared to tokens or standees. If I was interested for the minis, I could buy similar ones at a fraction of the cost or wait a year for the miniature market correction to bring these to a reasonable price.

At least it's not $35 per plastic non-unique character.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Depends on the game, I guess. I’m a fan of Bones, Nolzur’s, most PVC and hard plastic sellers that aren’t GW (with some exceptions), but they aren’t the real competition for this. Last weekend, MM sold Wrath of Kong’s minis for insanely cheap prices per mini. When Mk3 dropped, I found plenty of PP starters for $10 or less, Grind for $8, ASOIAF boxes for $10, SWLegion for $5 a box, and so on. Customers have more options now than ever before. Buying a large skirmish force at $15 per one dude and $30 for a robot may have seemed reasonable when there were no other options, but they don’t fly now..

You can't expect a company to price a new range to match clearance prices from Miniature Market, though.

Yeah expecting companies to sell products at clearance prices (which are often below "at cost" prices and can even be below the price the retailer bought them for as well) is just nuts.

It's fair to want value for money, but expecting companies to basically pay to give you a product is insulting.



Sure you can argue that the game might be dead in a year and its perfectly fair to wait until then to find out if you don't want to buy in now.

They don’t have to match it. They just need to get low enough for their quality, community, or whatever other added value to top the scales. I buy new items I’m excited about at full price when they feel like a good enough value, even despite the existence of MM.

Typically, I find there’s a value for impulse buys that allows a potential customer like me to buy a new product the first time they see it on the shelf, but anything just above that price causes pause, allowing the customer to think and cool down. For an example, I used to buy Malifaux figures sometimes, but haven’t bought anything since they reboxed all their kits because the price was high enough to kick in my higher brain functions before I reached the register.

So what you're saying is we need to take you down to the pub for a few hours before you'll back the KS?

It wouldn’t hurt.

I do agree, market is saturated with such games and asking people to pay premium for product which is not premium is asking for a lot.

Privateer Press have ALWAYS been overpriced outside of battleboxes. People just forgave it because the game was good.

They are GW with less resources and less technically good models (aesthetics are a different argument).

 Da Boss wrote:
They are GW with less resources and less technically good models (aesthetics are a different argument).

And better rules. Don't forget the better rules. It's a big part of PP.

MK3 begs to differ...

MK3 Ruleset was fine.

Faction balance was the issue.

Faction balance is a pretty big part of the rules. But yeah, PP were always better at rules than GW.

 Da Boss wrote:
Faction balance is a pretty big part of the rules. But yeah, PP were always better at rules than GW.

.

Based on Dakka - isn't everyone better at rules than GW?