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2000-pts Jy2's NEW MTO Greyzilla Army vs GTKA666's I.A.C. System Eldar (Completed)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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In a battle between the balanced Eldar and the unbalanced Greydar (GK + Eldar), who will triumph?
Eldar. A balanced list is a better army.
Draw. All the troops die.
Greydar. There are just too many threats for Eldar to handle. Overloading works.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Finally, I get to try out a list I've been wanting to try for a while now. It wasn't until the new elder codex came out that I finally pulled the trigger. I never ran triple dreadknights before because I thought it wasn't very balanced. Now with the new wraithknight out, I say...to hell with balance! I'm going to make me a monster of an army! I've always liked the monster list. Ever since my origins as a nidzilla player, monstrous creatures have always fascinated me in the game of 40K. But up until now, I've only been able to do it with the "bad" guys - namely, tyranids and chaos. But now, I get a chance to run a "good" guy monster list and I am ecstatic.

Now I don't really consider this list actually competitive. It is a strong list. It is a hammer list and it will give many armies a very tough matchup. However, it is also one of my most unbalanced lists ever and I don't consider it a tournament list. I actually consider it a "fun" list. Well, fun for me anyways, probably not so much for my opponent. But even my "fun" lists need to be used with caution, because it can frustrate an opponent if he doesn't have the tools to deal with it. Thus, don't for a second think that fun = weak. This is a list that can still pretty much beat face against many opponents.

My opponent for the game is GTKA666 and his balanced elder list. He is going to the Golden Throne GT and this will be a good practice game for him to test out how his army can deal with such an extreme army. If Sean can handle this type of army, then I believe his army can advance far in the tournament. If not, then he still needs a lot of practice with it. His army does have the tools IMO. What remains to be seen is how he uses those tools. In any case, this won't be an easy battle for my opponent. Actually, it's going to be damn tough for him, considering the skill level of his opponent. But if he starts shooting in this game like he did in the game against my triple-flyrant tyranid army, then he probably won't have much problems dealing with even less monsters.


---------------------------------------------------------------------


2000 Greyzilla Grey Knights w/Eldar (Jy2)


I apologize for the proxies, but my eldars are still relatively new. I don't have all my models yet. In this battle, fire dragons will be count-as warp spiders. I am also using my jetbike farseer as a jetbike autarch.


Draigo

Warlord Trait: FNP within 3" of an objective

Autarch - Jetbike, Banshee Masks, Fusion Gun, Laser Lance, Mantle of the Laughing God, Shard up Uranus

1x Soladin - Hammer
1x Soladin - Hammer
1x Soladin - Hammer

5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent - TL-Scatter, Holofields

3x Guardian Jetbikes

9x Warp Spiders

Nemesis Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter
Nemesis Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter
Nemesis Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter

Wraith Knight



2000 I.A.C. System Eldar (GTKA666)

Sean has modified his list from the last time we played. As he is getting more practice, his list is evolving....and I like the direction he is going with it. Gone are the Night spinner and Aegis Defense Line. He has replaced them with another unit of guardians in wave serpent. I think the next step in the evolution of his list will be some jetbikes.


Autarch- Death Spinner, Chainsword, and Spider Pack

Farseer - Doom, Prescience, Perfect Timing (Warlord)

Warlord Trait: Useless

10 Dire Avengers - Exarch, Power Sword+Shimmer Shield
Wave Serpent - TL-Scatter, Holofields

10x Guardians
Wave Serpent - TL-Scatter, Holofields

10x Guardians
Wave Serpent - TL-Scatter, Holofields

10x Guardians

Crimson Hunter - Exarch
7x Warp Spiders
7x Warp Spiders

3x War Walkers - 2x Scatter Lasers each

Big Daddy Wraith Knight "Goldmember" - Suncannon, Scatter Laser


---------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Crusade - 3 Objectives


Deployment: Hammer & Anvil


Initiative: Grey Knights force Eldar to go 1st


-------------------------------------------------------------------


PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Greydar:

The name of the game here is Maximum Threat Overload, or MTO. That is the principle behind this army. Paladins, Draigo, spiders and guardian jetbikes stay in reserves. On turn 1, my MC's get into position. I'm going to have to take 1 turn of fire, but I think I can survive. Then on Turn 2, when hopefully most of my reserves come in, I strike. Soladins and Draigo will deepstrike into his backfield. Autarch should be in a position to assault this turn. MC's attack, with the dreadknights potentially shunting. All of a sudden, my opponent will have more threats in his backfield than he can hopefully deal with.

I will try to box him in with the MC's and autarch surrounding the perimeters. Part of the strategy of my MTO theory includes my philosophy of Positional Dominance, which is to control the Movement phase. If I can get him where I want, then I will have the advantage throughout the game because he will be out of position to get to the objectives. And my units have got the mobility to execute my strategy of MTO, which usually requires mobile units. He won't be able to run away fast enough, at least not from my big guys and autarch.

Now you may think that I am risking my Warlord, Draigo, as well as my scoring units by playing them so aggressively. Well, you're right. I will be. However, the dilemma is this. Should the opponent kill the much slower and not as threatening scoring units and/or my Warlord....or should he take out my more dangerous and much faster monsters? That is one of the beauties of my philosophy. Each threat has a value. Each threat eats up a lot of enemy firepower and each threat is a high priority target. With so many targets, I am hoping my opponent will make mistakes throughout. Moreover, all my units are pretty resilient. Even the lonely soladin will take up to 36 BS4 bolter shots just to kill. Does my opponent really have that much firepower?

Now some of you are wondering how am I going to crack open those tanks to get at his troops, right? The answer is that I don't need to. They will come out of their own accord. They will have to. Just the serpents and his other offensive units alone is not enough to handle all my threats. He's going to have to contribute with the guardian/dire avengers bladestorming. Once they are out, then I will shunt my dreadknights to incinerate their a$$es. How am I going to get them out? That's where my Warlord Draigo comes and the soladins come in. When I deepstrike them into deployment zone, I guarantee you my opponent will disembark to deal with them. Or I can just ram Big Scary down their throats. Or I can bait him with 1 of my dreadknights. In any case, I may lose my Warlord, but it will be a good trade-off if I can wipe out his troops in the process.

The X-factor here will be my autarch. He is so good that you won't believe it. I swear, the Mantle of the Laughing God is such a broken piece of equipment....and I'm going to enjoy every moment of it. Only those who can ignore cover will be able to take him down (in other words, Tau). Otherwise, he is a diamond of an unit.

I think this will be a difficult fight for my opponent. While he's got a very balanced list, one of the main weaknesses of a balanced list is that it will have problems against some of the more extreme lists. 6E is a rock-paper-scissors game and balanced lists are perhaps some of the best tournament lists out there. However, even they aren't immune to the RPS effect of 6E. Some of these extreme lists, like my Greyzilla army, actually needs a list that is a little more specialized to be able to deal with them. I honestly don't see my opponents army as one of those....but I guess we shall find out soon enough.


---------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Spoiler:
It is Night-fight.


Eldar deployment. Dire Avengers and his farseer Warlord to the far-right (my opponent's right).

BTW, that falcon is a wave serpent, at least for today.


War walkers will be outflanking, spiders deepstriking and his crimson hunter and foot guardians coming in from his own board edge.


GK deployment.

For Draigo's Grand Strategy, I make only 1 of my dreadknights scoring - the one in the middle.


Draigo will be attached to a soladin. All my soladins and the spiders will be deepstriking. Guardian jetbikes will be coming from my board edge.


Overview of our deployment.

I decline to seize. Night-fight should protect my big guys.




---------------------------------------------------------------------


Eldar 1

Spoiler:

Dire avengers w/farseer actually disembark from their serpent. The eldar then advance as well as converge together.


The serpents out of shooting range (due to Night-fight) move flat-out instead.

His shooting does nothing thanks to 2+ cover behind Shrouded ruins.




Greydar 1

Spoiler:

The knights move forwards. This is the calm before the storm. I make sure to keep everyone in cover (i.e. MC's are touching area terrain).


Autarch then turbo-boosts behind LOS-blocking terrain.


Serpent flat-out towards my board edge to protect itself from spider shooting.

Dreadknight run.

Big Scary (my wraithknight) fires at Goldmember (his wraithknight). I score 2 wounds, of which 1 is an Instant Death shot! Fortunately for my opponent, he makes his insta-kill wound.




Eldar 2

Spoiler:

With the exception of 1 unit of spiders, everyone comes in from reserves.


Guardians have no real target and thus go after my autarch.

I felt that this was a mistake by my opponent. Their shooting isn't going to do anything to my autarch. If it was me, I'd have moved the guardians in with the rest of the army to help reinforce them. Then again, my opponent probably didn't anticipate what I was about to do - deepstriking my entire army where his main force is.


Spiders with autarch go after the dreadknights. This is another very dangerous place for him to land on - right smack-dab in the middle of 3 dreadknights and my wraithknight!


The rest of his army moves. Goldmember goes forwards. The serpents go backwards. Warlord and avengers get back into their serpent.


His shooting is somewhat effective. Crimson hunter puts 4W on my dreadknight. I then go-to-ground with him for the 3+ cover....and still fail 3 saves.

The rest of his shooting takes out my dreadknight for First Blood as well as put 4W on Big Scary (his spiders do 2W to him by themselves).


Spiders spread out with their assault move. Goldmember then try a 10" charge against Big Scary but fail.

Overall, a respectable turn for my opponent.




Greydar 2

Spoiler:

On my turn, everyone comes in as well with the exception of the guardian jetbikes (Hey! That's the perfect reserve scenario for me!).

Draigo with soladin lands right in the center of his forces. Draigo also takes 1W from dangerous terrain.

I make a mistake here and fail to utilize his Warlord trait, which is FNP within 3" of an objective, but what the heck. I NEED for my opponent to get out and shoot at Draigo.

Now this is a risky tactic indeed. I've already given up First Blood. Now I am potentially giving up Warlord as well. Oh well....no rewards without some risk.


Soladins and spiders all deepstrike in my opponent's deployment zone. I believe I did have a couple of minor scatters but so far, so good.


I deviate from my plan to overload my opponent by going after his autarch and spiders with my 2 dreadknights. Spiders to me are always a high priority target. If you don't protect them well enough, I will take them out.


My Laughtarch moves towards his main force but also stays in range of his troops. Flexibility is the key to success.


Lastly, I advance Big Scary. Hmmmm....maybe I should call him Big Red instead?


Soladins and Draigo run.

Spiders shoot at his crimson hunter. They hit it 3 times and my opponent decides not to jink. I then proceed to take off 2 HP's and shake it, so the end result is that it will still have to snap-shoot next turn.


War walkers are another high priority target for me. They need to die and they need to die NOW!

Big Scary shoots at the war walkers instead and take out 1.


Heavy incinerators burn down 3 spiders. My dreadknights would then charge the unit.


Notice anything missing here?

You are correct if you said, crimson hunter. My wave serpent shoots it down with 3 hits.


We then go to assault. My wraithknight (WK) assault the walkers.


I hit and pen twice. However, the walkers make both of their Invuln saves. They then hit and wound me once and I fail my save! For shame....


My autarch assaults the guardians. They do 1W to him and he kills 5. However, they would pass Morale....which is actually good for me.


Dreadknights completely annihilate the spiders and autarch.


Finally, my spiders use their assault move to jump behind the central building.

Overall, a good turn for me. I made my opponent pay for deploying his spiders where he deployed them. I took out what may have been his biggest threat to my big guys - the crimson hunter. Finally, I've taken his walkers out of the picture for now.

Next turn, he's got no choice but to disembark his guys to deal with my threats.




Eldar 3

Spoiler:

The final unit of spiders comes in. They land in my backfield and behind my main force.


Guardians disembark, though dire avengers remain inside their serpent still.

Will that be enough to wipe out Draigo and his bodyguard?


Serpents will try to take out my soladins.

Ok, let's see how tough paladins really are.


Goldmember goes after the my scoring dreadknight.

1 wave serpent, spiders and Goldmember shoot at him. My dreadknight is forced to go-to-ground and survives with just 1W remaining.


After 40 rending shots and 1 wave serpent shooting, he kills the soladin but Draigo survives with 2W remaining.

Guardians then use Battle Focus to spread out.


The other wave serpent does manage to finish off another soladin.


Goldmember charges the dreadknight.


With only 1W remaining, my dreadknight doesn't put up much of a fight against the eldar.


Finally, my autarch wipes out his guardians and consolidates towards the serpents.

Not too bad a turn for my opponent, but he let my Warlord escape. At least he has killed 3 of my scoring units this turn - 2 soladins and the scoring dreadknight. Had he disembarked the dire avengers as well, he might have finished off Draigo. But then, my opponent didn't want to expose all of his units. At least one of them needed to survive to claim an objective in the end.




Greydar 3

Spoiler:

Jetbikes come in.


Laughtarch goes after an empty wave serpent.


Actually, Draigo took 3W last turn. He goes after 1 unit of guardians. The soladin goes after another.


Damn serpent immobilizes itself on terrain so my dire avengers disembark.


My spiders go after his spiders.


My spiders and dire avengers combine to take out 5 of Sean's spiders.


Draigo takes out 5 guardians with his psychic heavy flamer. My soladin, however, fails to cast Holocaust (that's a large blast psychic shooting power).

Autarch shoots at the serpent with his fusion gun but it makes its jink save.


Finally, my immobilized serpent shoots at his serpent and take off 1 HP.


Bikes turbo-boost towards the center.


In the assault phase, my spiders spread out.

Notice how I stretched them out like that? Positioning is very important. The way they are right now, I can easily make it towards my deployment to help out my DA against his remaining 2 spiders or I can play aggressively and go after his main forces....as long as I don't have to fear retaliation.


My Laughtarch then assaults his empty wave serpent and blows it up.


Both Draigo and the soladin makes it into assault. My soladin eats 1W to Overwatch.


My last dreadknight charges Goldmember.


Draigo whiffs and only kill 2 guardians, who then pass Morale. That.....is actually good for me.


The soladin breaks the squad after killing 3 guardians. However, they only fall back about 4".


Big Scary finally finishes off the walkers.


My opponent's wraithknight whiffs in combat and manages to only hit and wound once, which my dreadknight then saves. I then hit and wound his WK 4 times and proceed to force weapon him to death.

Things have just gone from bad to worse for my opponent. In this turn, I take out 1 wave serpent, his war walkers and his wraithknight. Also, 1 unit of troops is fleeing, the other will probably get wiped out next turn by my Warlord and his spiders are down to a unit of 2 remaining.

If my opponent has got any more magic in his hat, he better pull out his rabbit very soon.




Eldar 4

Spoiler:
I give my opponent some advice. He doesn't necessarily have to kill my threats to win the game. What he really needs to do is to kill off my scoring units. Even if we both wipe out each other's troops, then my opponent will have the advantage with First Blood. He is also within easy reach of getting my Warlord with just 1W remaining.


Guardians regroup.


Spiders go after my dire avengers.


Both of his wave serpents position themselves to shoot down my guardian jetbikes.

Bah! It was a mistake on my part to move my jetbikes out so early. Now I am probably going to lose them. I should have just kept them in my deployment corner.


The 2 serpents combine to take out my jetbikes. 1 down. 2 more troops to go.


Fortunately for me, spiders only shoot down 1 dire avenger....I don't even need to take Morale!

Moreover, his guardians fail to take down my soladin (with only 1W left).


In a last ditched effort, his spiders assault my avengers. He hits and wound once, which I save. I then hit and wound 3 times and he saves them all as well.


Draigo continues to whiff, killing only 1 guardian this time.




Greydar 4

Spoiler:
What I failed to mention to my opponent, however, is that even without any troops, I can still win with a tabling. And I get ready to do just that.


Spiders teleport.


I get in position to put the hurt on.


Soladin goes for the objective. My dreadknight, who shunts this turn, can take care of his guardians. Laughtarch will try to go 2 for 2 against the serpents.


Dreadknight incinerates 5 guardians....


....who then fail Morale and fall back. They will need Insane Courage (i.e. snake-eyes) to regroup because the unit is now less than 25%.


Big Scary immobilizes the serpent with his heavy wraithcannon.

His Warlord's serpent, however, makes its jink save against my Laughtarch's fusion gun.


Draigo finishes off the guardians in assault. Big Scary assaults the serpent and makes it go BOOM!!!


Spiders join combat and I wipe out his 2 spiders.


Finally, the Laughtarch assaults the last serpent and makes it go BOOM!!! once again. 4 dire avengers die in the explosion and his Warlord takes 1W as well.




Eldar 5

Spoiler:
With only his Warlord and a unit of 6 dire avengers remaining and out of position, my opponent orders a tactical retreat in order to live and fight another day.





Complete Domination by Greyzilla Greydar!!!





Greydar 5

Spoiler:
Sorry, but the game ended last turn.




This message was edited 17 times. Last update was at 2013/07/21 18:09:16



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

The loss of the Night Spinner is unfortunate. It's not especially useful against the sorts of lists you've been using, but it's incredibly useful against hordes of Daemons or Tyranids, or Tau/Guard behind Aegis lines.

I'm glad to see he's dropped the Aegis, though. Most of the time, it's just not that important for Eldar; they should be staying mobile, rather than tying themselves down to a fortification. Including one just fixes your on-table tactics at list-building time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/19 16:59:29


Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Major




Fortress of Solitude

A very fun GK army, so should be an interesting game.

Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 Janthkin wrote:
The loss of the Night Spinner is unfortunate. It's not especially useful against the sorts of lists you've been using, but it's incredibly useful against hordes of Daemons or Tyranids, or Tau/Guard behind Aegis lines.

I'm glad to see he's dropped the Aegis, though. Most of the time, it's just not that important for Eldar; they should be staying mobile, rather than tying themselves down to a fortification. Including one just fixes your on-table tactics at list-building time.

The night spinner is useful, however, I really think he needs another troop in his army (in his last game, he only ran 3). And the wave serpent is probably the most well rounded vehicle in the eldar army, not to mention it can ferry his troops to where they need to be.

The only useless unit there IMO is the guardians on foot. Although my opponent is trying not to use jetbikes, if it were me, I'd swap out that foot unit + change for 2x3 guardian jetbikes.

I do agree with dropping the ADL. With the 3rd serpent there, he really doesn't need it anymore as almost all his troops can be meched up. Yeah, the ADL really just limits what should be a highly mobile army.


 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
A very fun GK army, so should be an interesting game.

Yeah, it fits my style of MTO (Maximum Threat Overload) to a T.

I will explain more about this to the newer viewers in my Pre-game Analysis when I get to it later today.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/19 17:22:03



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I think this match will be determined by deployment. If GTKA666 is able to focus down the MCs one at a time, he should come away with a W. Though I am still rooting for JY2. 9-)
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Should be a slam dunk for GTKA666 IMO. He has enough bladestorm, monofilament, scatter lasers, and serpent shields to easily put down the MC's leaving JY's spiders and serpent as the only remaining threat.

Deployment too. Shunt doesn't help much in H&A deployment. If Sean makes JY come to him, he will be able to get a lot of shooting in.

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The ammount of experience i am getting from Jim and you guys is priceless. I thank you all and cant wait to beat janthikin in the tournament, followed by reecius, and then imotekthe stormlord. The gauntlet has been thrown!

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San Jose, CA

Futile gauntlet, in my case at least - I won't be at the Golden Throne.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
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I'm betting on Jy2 just based on player skill lol... Though I have no idea how good he is with the GK and it does depend on deployment and how many serpents can be popped before the Dreadknights can get to his lines...

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with an Aegis for Eldar as in early turns it can be very useful for certain shooty elements/allied units. I like taking an Icarus with a Fast Shot equipped model and then you can abandon the Icarus when necessary.

Another thing one can do is deploy the Icarus on a flank baiting opponent to deploy opposite the Aegis and then psyche them out by deploying on the other table edge. If you are smart, you deployed the Icarus so that opponent can't effectively use it against you =D.

All in all, I agree that the guardians on foot are the weaker element so I'd probably drop the DA Exarch/Shimmer Shield and the Suncannon/Scatter Laser (thereby just taking a stock Wraithknight) to try and fit in a Serpent for those guardians...Dropping Exarch/Shimmer and Suncannon/Scatter gives you 90 points so you can then just drop a Warp Spider and Dire Avenger or whatever else to fit in that extra serpent. My 2 cents!

PS: JY2...REMEMBER your IC with Mantle has Hit & Run this time =). It is always a good idea to move him behind LOS blocking terrain then pounce on something the following assault phase. My most epic use of a Mantle HQ is to turbo under a landing pad where Tau had no LOS for Marker Lights (who were on the landing pad) then next turn charging the Marker Lights...Good stuff.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/07/19 19:36:01


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Wow... That's an interesting GK list. Though personally I love anything that has 4 MC's in it. And I salute anyone who runs more than one Dreadknight (Psyflemen are the popular choice out here).

That being said, I vote for the Eldar once again! Maybe because I enjoy being wrong. Possibly because I like betting against the team that I want to win. Who knows?

I have to say, though, it feels like jy2 was betting heavily on not getting Purge the Alien. Since those solo Paladins seem like a good way to lose that mission. Even if they're deep striking, it feels risky.

However, I'll be interested to see if the MC's can crack open those Wave Serpents and get at the juicy Guardians inside. An Incinerator should make short work of those squads. Same with the walkers if the opponent isn't careful.

I also think people are severely underestimating toughness 6 and Terminator armor. Strength 6 only wounding on 4+ is a big deal.

Screw it. I'm changing my vote to the GKdar. Team Giant Robot's gonna take it all with a scoring Wraith Knight!

Still, regardless of who wins, looks like you guys had fun playing these games. Which, in my opinion, is the most important thing about 40k... Though winning is nice
   
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 Janthkin wrote:
Futile gauntlet, in my case at least - I won't be at the Golden Throne.


Hmmmm jim was under the impression that you were going. Sad days then.

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GTKA666 wrote:
The ammount of experience i am getting from Jim and you guys is priceless. I thank you all and cant wait to beat janthikin in the tournament, followed by reecius, and then imotekthe stormlord. The gauntlet has been thrown!


Cometh at me bro.

Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General 
   
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 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
GTKA666 wrote:
The ammount of experience i am getting from Jim and you guys is priceless. I thank you all and cant wait to beat janthikin in the tournament, followed by reecius, and then imotekthe stormlord. The gauntlet has been thrown!


Cometh at me bro.


Ill come at you like a spider monkey hyped up on mountain dew

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Fortress of Solitude

GTKA666 wrote:
 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
GTKA666 wrote:
The ammount of experience i am getting from Jim and you guys is priceless. I thank you all and cant wait to beat janthikin in the tournament, followed by reecius, and then imotekthe stormlord. The gauntlet has been thrown!


Cometh at me bro.


Ill come at you like a spider monkey hyped up on mountain dew


Thats what she said.

Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General 
   
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That...makes no sense. You want her to attack you?

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That is the most beautiful Grey Knights list I've ever seen.
I think I'm gonna steal it from you (but without the Eldar allies... I'll have to do some brainstorming...)
   
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I quite like the look of the Monster Mash list. Everything is pretty tough to take down so even though it hasn't got a lot of models it has a lot of troop choices and options. Reminds me of the old movie marine soladin list I used to play except it might be even faster and quicker with all those jump MCs. Good luck with it. It will be hard for your opponent to avoid you and hard for him to take down so many MCs.

btw ... this is the list as played back then before allies ...

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224712-gk-1500/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/20 01:59:09


 
   
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Fortress of Solitude

GTKA666 wrote:
That...makes no sense. You want her to attack you?


Well to quote another comment of yours:

"your just going to have to decide for yourself what I am trying to do"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/20 04:07:21


Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General 
   
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Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Greydar:

The name of the game here is Maximum Threat Overload, or MTO. That is the principle behind this army. Paladins, Draigo, spiders and guardian jetbikes stay in reserves. On turn 1, my MC's get into position. I'm going to have to take 1 turn of fire, but I think I can survive. Then on Turn 2, when hopefully most of my reserves come in, I strike. Soladins and Draigo will deepstrike into his backfield. Autarch should be in a position to assault this turn. MC's attack, with the dreadknights potentially shunting. All of a sudden, my opponent will have more threats in his backfield than he can hopefully deal with.

I will try to box him in with the MC's and autarch surrounding the perimeters. Part of the strategy of my MTO theory includes my philosophy of Positional Dominance, which is to control the Movement phase. If I can get him where I want, then I will have the advantage throughout the game because he will be out of position to get to the objectives. And my units have got the mobility to execute my strategy of MTO, which usually requires mobile units. He won't be able to run away fast enough, at least not from my big guys and autarch.

Now you may think that I am risking my Warlord, Draigo, as well as my scoring units by playing them so aggressively. Well, you're right. I will be. However, the dilemma is this. Should the opponent kill the much slower and not as threatening scoring units and/or my Warlord....or should he take out my more dangerous and much faster monsters? That is one of the beauties of my philosophy. Each threat has a value. Each threat eats up a lot of enemy firepower and each threat is a high priority target. With so many targets, I am hoping my opponent will make mistakes throughout. Moreover, all my units are pretty resilient. Even the lonely soladin will take up to 36 BS4 bolter shots just to kill. Does my opponent really have that much firepower?

Now some of you are wondering how am I going to crack open those tanks to get at his troops, right? The answer is that I don't need to. They will come out of their own accord. They will have to. Just the serpents and his other offensive units alone is not enough to handle all my threats. He's going to have to contribute with the guardian/dire avengers bladestorming. Once they are out, then I will shunt my dreadknights to incinerate their a$$es. How am I going to get them out? That's where my Warlord Draigo comes and the soladins come in. When I deepstrike them into deployment zone, I guarantee you my opponent will disembark to deal with them. Or I can just ram Big Scary down their throats. Or I can bait him with 1 of my dreadknights. In any case, I may lose my Warlord, but it will be a good trade-off if I can wipe out his troops in the process.

The X-factor here will be my autarch. He is so good that you won't believe it. I swear, the Mantle of the Laughing God is such a broken piece of equipment....and I'm going to enjoy every moment of it. Only those who can ignore cover will be able to take him down (in other words, Tau). Otherwise, he is a diamond of an unit.

I think this will be a difficult fight for my opponent. While he's got a very balanced list, one of the main weaknesses of a balanced list is that it will have problems against some of the more extreme lists. 6E is a rock-paper-scissors game and balanced lists are perhaps some of the best tournament lists out there. However, even they aren't immune to the RPS effect of 6E. Some of these extreme lists, like my Greyzilla army, actually needs a list that is a little more specialized to be able to deal with them. I honestly don't see my opponents army as one of those....but I guess we shall find out soon enough.




6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
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San Jose, CA

GTKA666 wrote:
 Janthkin wrote:
Futile gauntlet, in my case at least - I won't be at the Golden Throne.


Hmmmm jim was under the impression that you were going. Sad days then.

Did I say Janthkin was going to the Golden Throne? If I did, my bad. He isn't. Instead, we are both going to the ATC in August as teammates.


 hyv3mynd wrote:
Should be a slam dunk for GTKA666 IMO. He has enough bladestorm, monofilament, scatter lasers, and serpent shields to easily put down the MC's leaving JY's spiders and serpent as the only remaining threat.

Deployment too. Shunt doesn't help much in H&A deployment. If Sean makes JY come to him, he will be able to get a lot of shooting in.

It could well be that way if my opponent can shoot in this game like he did in our first game (against my tyranids).


 mortetvie wrote:
I'm betting on Jy2 just based on player skill lol... Though I have no idea how good he is with the GK and it does depend on deployment and how many serpents can be popped before the Dreadknights can get to his lines...

I was primarily a Draigowing and Crowe-purifier player back in 5th and my armies were really strong. Haven't played too much of my GK's in 6th as I've been focusing almost exclusively on my Xenos armies this edition.

 mortetvie wrote:
I personally don't think there is anything wrong with an Aegis for Eldar as in early turns it can be very useful for certain shooty elements/allied units. I like taking an Icarus with a Fast Shot equipped model and then you can abandon the Icarus when necessary.

Another thing one can do is deploy the Icarus on a flank baiting opponent to deploy opposite the Aegis and then psyche them out by deploying on the other table edge. If you are smart, you deployed the Icarus so that opponent can't effectively use it against you =D.

Yeah, Blackmoor ran Dark Reapers with a Fast Shot Exarch on the Icarus against my daemons. So did 1 player in a tournament I went to recently. That is a good combo.

As for the "fake" deployment with the ADL, Grant Theft Auto did that to me with his seer council build against my daemons, basically taking my soulgrinders out of the action for 3 turns.

BTW, all 3 of those games were losses for me.

 mortetvie wrote:
All in all, I agree that the guardians on foot are the weaker element so I'd probably drop the DA Exarch/Shimmer Shield and the Suncannon/Scatter Laser (thereby just taking a stock Wraithknight) to try and fit in a Serpent for those guardians...Dropping Exarch/Shimmer and Suncannon/Scatter gives you 90 points so you can then just drop a Warp Spider and Dire Avenger or whatever else to fit in that extra serpent. My 2 cents!

PS: JY2...REMEMBER your IC with Mantle has Hit & Run this time =). It is always a good idea to move him behind LOS blocking terrain then pounce on something the following assault phase. My most epic use of a Mantle HQ is to turbo under a landing pad where Tau had no LOS for Marker Lights (who were on the landing pad) then next turn charging the Marker Lights...Good stuff.

Yeah, everyone has their preferences. If it was me, I'd also drop the Autarch, give the farseer the Mantle and add some more spiders....HEY!!! His list will start to look more and more like mine. Muahahahaha......

But unlike the Hive Mind, we are not all the same.

Yeah, I did remember about Hit-&-Run this game. You can be sure I won't make that mistake twice in a row.


Trekend wrote:
Wow... That's an interesting GK list. Though personally I love anything that has 4 MC's in it. And I salute anyone who runs more than one Dreadknight (Psyflemen are the popular choice out here).

That being said, I vote for the Eldar once again! Maybe because I enjoy being wrong. Possibly because I like betting against the team that I want to win. Who knows?

I have to say, though, it feels like jy2 was betting heavily on not getting Purge the Alien. Since those solo Paladins seem like a good way to lose that mission. Even if they're deep striking, it feels risky.

However, I'll be interested to see if the MC's can crack open those Wave Serpents and get at the juicy Guardians inside. An Incinerator should make short work of those squads. Same with the walkers if the opponent isn't careful.

I also think people are severely underestimating toughness 6 and Terminator armor. Strength 6 only wounding on 4+ is a big deal.

Screw it. I'm changing my vote to the GKdar. Team Giant Robot's gonna take it all with a scoring Wraith Knight!

Still, regardless of who wins, looks like you guys had fun playing these games. Which, in my opinion, is the most important thing about 40k... Though winning is nice

I consider it 4.5 MC's. Draigo is almost a MC.

Honestly, I don't really care about Purge the Alien. With my list, if my opponent has the tools to deal with my army, then no matter the mission, I'm probably going to get tabled or close to. Whether VP's or objectives, this list will still play almost the same. The key is to maximize the threat that the opponent has to face in order to be successful.

I can crack open those serpents easily enough. However, I won't need to in order to get to his troops. They will come out, of that I am positive.

BTW, the wraithknight won't be scoring. However, I can get 3 scoring dreadknights.

Yeah, win or lose, I'm going to have fun playing this army.


Rihgu wrote:
That is the most beautiful Grey Knights list I've ever seen.
I think I'm gonna steal it from you (but without the Eldar allies... I'll have to do some brainstorming...)

Go right ahead.

I myself got the idea from a friend of mine, Grey Therion here on dakka. He was my GK opponent at the Bay Area Open who ran Draigowing with soladins and 3 dreadknights.

Another good idea is the Shunt-Punch GK list. At 2K, it goes something like this:

Mordrak + 5 Ghosts knights
Librarian

2x5 strike squads

2x10 Interceptors - 2x psycannons + psybolt ammo each

3x jumping dreadknights


Librarian takes Warp Rift and attaches to Mordrak's unit, which comes in on Turn 1. Then the dreadknights and interceptors shunt forwards so that you are dealing with basically the entire army on Turn 1.

For more scoring, use Grand Strategy to make the Interceptors scoring and then combat squad them.


 felixcat wrote:
I quite like the look of the Monster Mash list. Everything is pretty tough to take down so even though it hasn't got a lot of models it has a lot of troop choices and options. Reminds me of the old movie marine soladin list I used to play except it might be even faster and quicker with all those jump MCs. Good luck with it. It will be hard for your opponent to avoid you and hard for him to take down so many MCs.

btw ... this is the list as played back then before allies ...

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/224712-gk-1500/

Yeesh....that list is a joke. It looks similar to my list, but it definitely isn't an inspiration for it.

I actually put a lot of thought behind my list, trying to get it to fit my own personal philosophy. Now with the new Eldar out (and with Runes of Warding no longer screwing with my own psychic powers), I have found the perfect complement to my Shunt-knights. I need speed and I need HTU's (High-Threat-Units). With the Laughingseer/Laughingtarch, guardian jetbikes and wraithknight, there is no better complement to my triple-dread knights. Then it was just a matter of filling in the blanks.





6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in cz
Deranged Necron Destroyer






The X-factor here will be my autarch. He is so good that you won't believe it. I swear, the Mantle of the Laughing God is such a broken piece of equipment....and I'm going to enjoy every moment of it. Only those who can ignore cover will be able to take him down (in other words, Tau). Otherwise, he is a diamond of an unit.



Helldrakes will eat him to... but yes he can be annoying as hell...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/20 06:37:52


You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things

And we shall do so again.

4500 pts


 
   
Made in nl
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine





The Netherlands

 Valek wrote:
The X-factor here will be my autarch. He is so good that you won't believe it. I swear, the Mantle of the Laughing God is such a broken piece of equipment....and I'm going to enjoy every moment of it. Only those who can ignore cover will be able to take him down (in other words, Tau). Otherwise, he is a diamond of an unit.



Helldrakes will eat him to... but yes he can be annoying as hell...

I think most Eldar players actually love it when CSM players shoot their Heldrake at a Mantle of the Laughing God HQ instead of the rest of their army, which is much more vulnerable. At S6/7 vs T4, it won't cause instant death, and they still have a 4+ invulnerable save.

   
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Bakersfield, CA

I hope to meet you guys at the Golden Throne Gt, especially across the table with my Angels of Redemption.

I voted for the Eldar list. I just think balance will win out.




nWo blackshirts GT Team Member

http://inthenameofsangunius.blogspot.com/?m=1 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA


 Redemption wrote:
 Valek wrote:
The X-factor here will be my autarch. He is so good that you won't believe it. I swear, the Mantle of the Laughing God is such a broken piece of equipment....and I'm going to enjoy every moment of it. Only those who can ignore cover will be able to take him down (in other words, Tau). Otherwise, he is a diamond of an unit.



Helldrakes will eat him to... but yes he can be annoying as hell...

I think most Eldar players actually love it when CSM players shoot their Heldrake at a Mantle of the Laughing God HQ instead of the rest of their army, which is much more vulnerable. At S6/7 vs T4, it won't cause instant death, and they still have a 4+ invulnerable save.

Correct. Moreover, he's not the Warlord so trying to kill him won't net the Chaos player very much.

Heldrakes should be going after troops and easier prey, like the warp spiders. Warp spiders are the biggest threat in my army to heldrake lists as they can consistently take down helturkeys. Otherwise, the rest of my Grey Knight army doesn't really care about helturkeys.


 Julnlecs wrote:
I hope to meet you guys at the Golden Throne Gt, especially across the table with my Angels of Redemption.

I voted for the Eldar list. I just think balance will win out.

They could. Never count out a balanced TAC list. They are never really out until the game is over....though I feel my list does have the potential to put hem out of their misery and do it early.




6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
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Australia

Interesting game to come, I'm sure.

I think you're going to want to be super careful around all that pseudo-rending (from Guardians/Dire Avengers/Wave Serpents/Warp Spiders), especially when the farseer is packing Doom. It's probable that a doomed monster could die to a volley from two units of guardians.

The Autharch could also be quite easily dropped by serpent shields. And the soladins could potentially be kited...

That said, if you box him in and get him out of the serpents, his scoring units aren't mobile. No bikes. So if he's spending the whole game killing your threats (even he can kill them with ease) he'll lose due to lack of points.

Personally, I'm voting Eldar... because I think the wave serpents are just too awesome, and that pseudo-rend could be a nightmare for your monsters. Although, I think it would be even worse for your monsters if he had scoring D-scythe wriathguard in those serpents... backed by a few 3 man bike squads to score.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/20 12:34:56


2000 pts

Compel wrote:
Because in a universe where the basic weapon is a rocket propelled grenade machine gun, with gigantic battletanks, 5 kilometer long spaceships, huge robots and power armoured supersoldiers, the most powerful guy you want to field on a battlefield is a bloke in a pointy hat carrying a stick. 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeesh....that list is a joke. It looks similar to my list, but it definitely isn't an inspiration for it.


It was designed to be something of a joke. Bear in mind this was a pre-allies list under different rules. But of course yours is a more serious attempt at using DKs and Soladins. We had no access to reserve bikes, WKs, mantle HQs ...

 
   
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San Jose, CA

 DexKivuli wrote:
Interesting game to come, I'm sure.

I think you're going to want to be super careful around all that pseudo-rending (from Guardians/Dire Avengers/Wave Serpents/Warp Spiders), especially when the farseer is packing Doom. It's probable that a doomed monster could die to a volley from two units of guardians.

The Autharch could also be quite easily dropped by serpent shields. And the soladins could potentially be kited...

That said, if you box him in and get him out of the serpents, his scoring units aren't mobile. No bikes. So if he's spending the whole game killing your threats (even he can kill them with ease) he'll lose due to lack of points.

Personally, I'm voting Eldar... because I think the wave serpents are just too awesome, and that pseudo-rend could be a nightmare for your monsters. Although, I think it would be even worse for your monsters if he had scoring D-scythe wriathguard in those serpents... backed by a few 3 man bike squads to score.

The problem with his farseer is that he will most likely be in a serpent. That means I will get at least 1 turn where he won't be able to Doom my guys. That's really all I need for my heavy incinerators to take out the majority of his troops and thusly, his shooting as well.

Actually, it doesn't really matter if his serpents try to take out my autarch. That just means their firepower isn't used against Draigo and my hammerdins, and you know what S10 thunderhammers will do to his serpents, right?

But yeah, once his troops get out, it will be very hard for him to make it to any of the objectives.

Wraithguard spam with D-blades would be a counter to my list, but my overall strategy with them would basically be the same - keep them boxed in and busy against my monsters and then see them scramble to the objectives.


 felixcat wrote:
Yeesh....that list is a joke. It looks similar to my list, but it definitely isn't an inspiration for it.


It was designed to be something of a joke. Bear in mind this was a pre-allies list under different rules. But of course yours is a more serious attempt at using DKs and Soladins. We had no access to reserve bikes, WKs, mantle HQs ...

I know it was a 5E list. The idea was to deepstrike everything since back then, they didn't have the reserve limitations that 6E has brought along. Still, it doesn't change the fact that it was an awful list.



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
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greensboro,northcarolina

I have a question about cover does your guys have to be atlest 25% of them to be not seen to get any type of cover at all?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 patrickekirby wrote:
I have a question about cover does your guys have to be atlest 25% of them to be not seen to get any type of cover at all?

Nowadays in 6E, monstrous creatures get cover just like infantry. That means they will get cover from being in/on area terrain without having to be 25% obscured just like normal infantry. However, if they are not on area terrain, then they would need to actually be 25% obscured to claim any type of cover.




6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
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Any reason you're not putting swords on your Dreadknights? In my experience, I've found that the swords add so much reliability to their CC power that it's always worth taking them (I run mine with Sword/Flamer/Teleporter). Is it just a lack of points, or have you not found them necessary?
   
 
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