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From my limited understanding, it seems to me that people think that Space Hulk a very, very good, "classic", board game.

So my question is, why does GW no longer produce it? The only reasons I can think of is that there is no demand for it (but that doesn't make sense, because most other classic board games are still in print, so there must be "demand") or that gw somehow think that it will stop people buying into the more profitable games they produces (i.e 40k). But this doesn't make sense, because last time I looked you could buy a ton of official "warhammer", themed board games and blood bowl, which also isn't exactly the 40k cash cow.

Further I will argue, that because the internet exists, it is still possible for people, albeit illegally, to play this game, so isn't it in GWs commercial interests to keep this game in print?

Can anyone answer my question?

Because the popularity, quality, and rarity combine to make it a well-valued collector's item.

Which is why it gets periodically re-released or made into video games.

But if they only plan to re-release it every 10/20 or 30 years then they aren't exactly making much money from it?

All they are doing is pushing up prices on the second hand market, money they don't profit from.

GW either do not see the value in this property or GW cannot see a return that would make investment in re establishing the property as viable.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
GW either do not see the value in this property or GW cannot see a return that would make investment in re establishing the property as viable.

It must have made them money.

I suspect it's the "treat em mean and keep em keen" approach. Staff in Nottingham still speak of it with enthusiasm - I suspect having one item that's cool, and not in this instance over-commercialised, presses someone's button and helps justify their premium self-image. If they can claim that some of their limited edition games are hugely sought-after, that will indirectly benefit sales on future items - for instance, the rumoured impending Inquisition game.

Inventory has a carrying cost - and there are costs that people don't always consider like cost of people to support it, guard it, insure it blah blah blah...

There is a finite demand for a 100 plus dollar board game that is based on a niche of a niche of a hobby.

Yep basically all of the above.

It also cost a fair bit to reprint to keep it in stock, and the stores only have a finite amount of space to carry stock which also costs money.

And there is also the possibility that once initial excitement has waned sales may drop and they are stuck with slow moving or dead stock.

It is far more cost effective to make one print run and limit the time is available which ensures all stock sells quickly and therefore doesn't sit around in stores or warehouses.

It might seem crazy for a classic boardgame but exactly the same thing happens in other industries such as books.

Toss in the fact that if they continued to stock it they'd have to provide some support to the game.

Additionally, they had to source all the cardboard bits. They're pretty tightly managed, so I imagine any time they have to source something Tom Kirby kills a bunny.

Also, as anything other than a limited release that they can pump and dump, it has the capacity to cut into their 40k sales.

Image you walk into a GW store for the first time and get a demo game. They sell you a DV starter and a codex. Hopefully you'll be back for a unit or two. Now imagine instead you buy the Space Hulk box and you are done. You have spent less and have a complete game. So it competes on price and doesn't have the potential for future sales. So that means GW is spending money on creating and distributing a product that they believe won't generate any additional revenue that they couldn't otherwise get through 40k.

Basically GW believes you'll buy what they tell you to buy, so why would they confuse the message with options inside the 40k universe?

I am surprised they haven't just licensed it though Fantasy Flight Games.

Board games do not quite align with current GW business model,

The cost to manufacture a board game is usually done in batches, ordering another batch require a high upfront cost, and it doesn't guarentee another sell out, but will be most definetly anger those to brought the limited edition in the first run.

Some things are better keep limited to hold its value and status of a game. There are currently no miniture company that can say they have a sort after discontinued game everybody wants.

Selling the perfect 40k introductory game for a fair price is just a waste of precious shelf space it seems.

Just looking on UK ebay, at the time of writing the next copy to finish bidding is stood at £150 and 18 bids.

To the OP - your guess is as good as mine!

Well if look at the reports, it seem GW dosen't really want better sells.

GW fans (and many others) seem to have this preconceived idea that every game should be kept in print, and supported with continuing product lines and rules revisions.

This is just not the way the game/toy industry works.
-Some products are made with a short shelf life.
-Some products are special and deliberately kept expensive and short run, so that the next time they do a short run they can charge the same ( or more).
-Companies only have limited amounts of staff, production capabilities and wearhouse space. They might only be able to produce and support a few sideline items.

Here's an example I used in a similar thread:

I actually think it's a natural choice for a company to have a few main games and a subset that only last for a number of years. Sort of like what LEGO does in that they have "Evergreen" Themes (Town, Castle, Space, etc) that are either always around or disappear and reappear periodically and they also have licensed and more experimental themes (Indiana Jones, Explorers, Atlantis) that have shorter shelf life and when they're gone, they're gone for good.

Well there's 'short release'... and then there's so limited that people can't get copies and end up having to buy them on eBay at inflated prices.

Space Hulk will make money, but I think GW's attitude is that it doesn't make *enough* money, over a long period of time these games don't have the margin that looks impressive on the spreadsheet. They used to have lots of games that probably all sold at a smallish margin in the 80s and 90s, and they did very well in this period. But that isn't how they view their products and sales now. Also I suspect they take the attitude that any game that isn't Warhammer must be taking sales from Warhammer; if people are buying a smaller game, like Space Hulk, it obviously means they won't be dropping £500 on a new army. GW want to sell piles of their flavour of the month stuff to anyone who comes in, they don't accept that some people would only ever be interested in something like Space Hulk and that a sale of Space Hulk doesn't translate into the loss of many more sales of 40K.

Well, the other problem is that if they keep it in print priced at a reasobke level, it canibalizes their other boxed sets.

What's that? I can get 12 Terminators and 32 Genestelaers for $100? Then why is this box of 5 Terminators $60 by itself? Etc. Etc.

This thread is rubbish! I came on here deliberately to see the ...because aliens meme. No such luck!

Poor Dakka, very poor!

 cincydooley wrote:
Well, the other problem is that if they keep it in print priced at a reasobke level, it canibalizes their other boxed sets.

What's that? I can get 12 Terminators and 32 Genestelaers for $100? Then why is this box of 5 Terminators $60 by itself? Etc. Etc.

I think that mostly exposes just how ludicrous their pricing of regular models is. But yes, that probably is another reason.

Artificial scarcity. GW doesn't understand longevity in terms of money. £20 each for years or £60 each for a few months.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Well, the other problem is that if they keep it in print priced at a reasobke level, it canibalizes their other boxed sets.

What's that? I can get 12 Terminators and 32 Genestelaers for $100? Then why is this box of 5 Terminators $60 by itself? Etc. Etc.

I think that mostly exposes just how ludicrous their pricing of regular models is. But yes, that probably is another reason.

I guess? The DV boxes do the same thing. This isn't really a "are models priced appropriately" thread though

Also, GW couldn't give two gaks about any artificial scarcity. They couldn't care less about what Space Hulk fetches on the secondary market. They already made the money they wanted to make.

 Eilif wrote:
GW fans (and many others) seem to have this preconceived idea that every game should be kept in print, and supported with continuing product lines and rules revisions.

There is a very, very simple reason for this. It is easier to get regular opponents when they can actually buy the product as well.

Not rocket science.

Regular opponents...for a board game?

Stretching it a bit isn't it?

But...but...what if BOTH of you want to be Muhreens!?

 Eilif wrote:
GW fans (and many others) seem to have this preconceived idea that every game should be kept in print, and supported with continuing product lines and rules revisions.

I see we've arrived at the point in the thread where someone feels compelled to create a fake argument, pretend that's the argument OP made, and then attack that fake argument as if that's the one OP made.

Fanboy, no hatist, no fanboi!

 Ouze wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
GW fans (and many others) seem to have this preconceived idea that every game should be kept in print, and supported with continuing product lines and rules revisions.

I see we've arrived at the point in the thread where someone feels compelled to create a fake argument, pretend that's the argument OP made, and then attack that fake argument as if that's the one OP made.

Sorry I should have been more clear that I was not responding directly to the OP. Rather I responding to what I saw in some of the responses as well as probably pulling from some of the feelings expressed in the threads concerning the end of SG.

Please don't disregard the fact that I was responding to real opinions expressed by Dakka members every time GW makes a short run of a product, cancels something or pulls a free ruleset off their website. There are always folks who complain that it wasn't supported, or was canceled too soon, or was a bad business decision, etc, etc. It's those folks to whom I was responding.

orkybenji wrote:
I am surprised they haven't just licensed it though Fantasy Flight Games.

They don't allow FFG to have anything that has miniatures that cross over into their Warhammer properties. Notice that Relic uses busts, Horus Heresy and Chaos in the Old World use abstract scales, and even Talisman no longer takes place in the Warhammer World (or universe).

The rationale is that it stops people from buying much more agreeably-priced FFG boardgames to get cheap-but "semi-official" figures to proxy into their Warhammer (40k) armies.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Selling the perfect 40k introductory game for a fair price is just a waste of precious shelf space it seems.

Hilariously, Space Hulk 1st edition back in 1990's or so is what fueled my imagination and then I immediately bought the 40k 2nd edition boxed set and then about fifty thousand dollars worth of GW models over the next 15-20 years.

Good ol' GW. Good OLD GW. Good = old GW.

 cincydooley wrote:
Well, the other problem is that if they keep it in print priced at a reasobke level, it canibalizes their other boxed sets.

What's that? I can get 12 Terminators and 32 Genestelaers for $100? Then why is this box of 5 Terminators $60 by itself? Etc. Etc.

Bingo.

In a sense I wonder if this is part of the reason that Dark Vengeance has moved from "Space Marines versus _______" to a much more specific "Dark Angels versus ________". I'm sure that the previous box (Black Reach) beat the snot out of their boxed terminator sales for the period it was available for, and probably knocked Dreadnoughts around pretty significantly as well. Sure, you can trim a lot of the DA iconography off, but beginners who want to play Ultramarines may noy have the skill, motivation, or will simply follow the GW staff's advice to also pick up that regular Space Marine tactical squad to paint blue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:

I see we've arrived at the point in the thread where someone feels compelled to create a fake argument, pretend that's the argument OP made, and then attack that fake argument as if that's the one OP made.

So.. you don't like Straw Men?