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I'm new to the game, and tweaking my first list before I play again (The Yu Jing starter + doctor -- simple 150pt. list to learn the game with).

At the 150 pt. level, I have 3 SWC available. However, if I make the list I want to make, I come out only spending 2.5 SWC. Is this a sign that I should change my list around? Or is it okay to leave some SWC off the table if I built my list with a purpose (in this case, a Hacker)?

I'm giving a specific example, but my question is really a general one: how important is it to squeeze every point of SWC out of your list?

Thanks!

It's not super important, and sometimes you'll build a list only to find you're only hitting about 3/4 or even less of your SWC and just can't get it higher, sometimes due to the added points cost a model with SWC brings with it or the units you're using just don't have SWC upgrades to take.

Just try your best to get SWC up there, but don't get too concerned if you're short. Being .5 short at 150pts isn't bad at all.

I dont really look at my SWC to be honest. The only thing I dois make sure I'm not over. If I know that it is going to eb an ITS mission or whatever i bring along specialists etc and if it is something like YAMS then i just build a list with units in it that i like. I will quite regularly take lists that are 300|2 or 300|3

Not as important as you think, I end up 2-4SWC under on my 300pts list all the time and don't feel it.

This shows a great strength of Infinity - in 40k you always max out your upgrade weapons, because they're the weapons that actually do the killing in your army.

In Infinity, plenty of 0SWC models have special weapons and abilities that make them real killers, while even the humble line infantry with combi rifles, with a bit of luck, can hurt even a TAG.

As long as you know why you're building your list the way you are, you shouldn't have much problem playing it.

It usually is good to use your SWC to the fullest as it means you're bringing Sniper Rifles, Spitfires and HMGs. You NEED those weapons for battlefield superiority as you need something more than just your rifles to shoot with.

I disagree, SWC is nice to have, but not essential. personally I rarely find myself needing SWC when I make lists.

I guess it boils down to your playstyle, but when a Ragik with HMG is 1.5 SWC, and the Kaplan/Lasiq sniper is another 1.5, it is not very difficult to run out of SWC points

Most armies would like to get the big guns, such as HMGs, snipers and missiles. However there are some armies that will struggle to get every single SWC used. A good example of this is Caledonia. They have a lot of cheap models with low SWC costs. Then they have the big guys, models that cost a lot and cost a lot of SWC. The problem with them is that if you pick them up, you will be missing on the little guys section. And in many cases 2 full links of Volunteers is better than 2 better equipped guys. Also some of the models that cost a lot of SWC are really not that good. A sniper SAS is't better than a CRAP SAS for example. Also some of the better models cost points but not SWC.

Then on the other hand there is vanilla Ariadna with toys like Veterans and TankHunters. Every single choice costs SWC so you will be wondering what to drop to squeeze that Autocannon in.

Awesome, thank you everyone. That puts things into perspective for me.

 Alkasyn wrote:
I guess it boils down to your playstyle, but when a Ragik with HMG is 1.5 SWC, and the Kaplan/Lasiq sniper is another 1.5, it is not very difficult to run out of SWC points

I've had the opposite problem with Yu Jing (Japanese sectorial) of not being able to use all my SWC, and the same to a lesser extent with Nomads.

As has been pointed out though doesn't seem to be essential, although I must say there is a certain satisfaction to finally adding a unit to an army and getting 298/299 points and 6 SWC

I get the problem of not being able to fill it all out with Haqqislam sometimes. We play 200pt games at the moment, and I'll reach 3-3.5 SWC pretty easily, but hitting 4 is sometimes pretty hard.

Well, just like in 40k, you could ignore taking heavy weapons and say that bolters will 'do the job'. Or you could max out spitfires/HMGs and not only 'do the job' but do it well.

Not maxing out is gimping yourself.

This could be army specific though; I started with CA at 300 points and quickly learned how well HMG reaction drones, Spitfires with MSV2, and Panzerfausts lock down enemy positions and/or outright slaughter them.

 Negator80 wrote:
Well, just like in 40k, you could ignore taking heavy weapons and say that bolters will 'do the job'. Or you could max out spitfires/HMGs and not only 'do the job' but do it well.

Not maxing out is gimping yourself.

This could be army specific though; I started with CA at 300 points and quickly learned how well HMG reaction drones, Spitfires with MSV2, and Panzerfausts lock down enemy positions and/or outright slaughter them.

There's a massive difference between relying on Space Marines with bolters to get the job done and relying on models with combi rifles to get the job done.

The difference is the Space Marines with bolters won't get it done because they can't reliably hurt anything as tough as themselves, while the models with combi rifles probably will because they can reliably hurt things tougher than themselves, and even with a little luck hurt the toughest models in the game - TAGs.

A Hassassin Muyib with a combi rifle is still a nasty force on the tabletop, and costs 0 SWC. A Ghulam with a combi rifle isn't as nasty, but can still put a rifle round through the head of a Spitfire weidling badass in ARO without taking return hits.

Using SWC is no doubt important - you do want to bring those fun toys like Spitfires, HMGs and HRLs, but maxing it out is very dependant on the army. Some will max it out before reaching 5 models in their first combat group (Morats are great for this) while some might hit two combat groups of 7 and still not max it out.

 Negator80 wrote:
Well, just like in 40k, you could ignore taking heavy weapons and say that bolters will 'do the job'. Or you could max out spitfires/HMGs and not only 'do the job' but do it well.

Not maxing out is gimping yourself.

This could be army specific though; I started with CA at 300 points and quickly learned how well HMG reaction drones, Spitfires with MSV2, and Panzerfausts lock down enemy positions and/or outright slaughter them.

And both of the units that you mention can easily be taken out of the game by 0 SWC cost units with combi/ rifles. There are still plenty of weapon options that are 0 SWC that will do a lot of damage like Mk 12s, AP rifles, T2 rifles, Viral rifles, ADHL's etc etc. And generally 'maxing out' your SWC just means you have a smaller number of obvious targets for the enemy to focus on. Taking some heavy weapons and taking some other 0 SWC units means you can aford to lose some of the heavy weapons and still spread the threats throughout your list.

SAS CRAP is 0 SWC and if he gets into the right position he'll make your infantry cry.

 motyak wrote:
SAS CRAP is 0 SWC and if he gets into the right position he'll make your infantry cry.

Stop trying to make that a Thing!

 Alpharius wrote:

 motyak wrote:
SAS CRAP is 0 SWC and if he gets into the right position he'll make your infantry cry.

Stop trying to make that a Thing!

Blame tesco, not me. I picked it up from his tactica which got cross posted here :p

 motyak wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 motyak wrote:
SAS CRAP is 0 SWC and if he gets into the right position he'll make your infantry cry.

Stop trying to make that a Thing!

Blame tesco, not me. I picked it up from his tactica which got cross posted here :p

Hah, I've seen you use that enough that I actually thought it was a thing.

In respect to SWC. If you are struggling to fill it then take it out of the equation and look at your list objectively. Is it sufficiently tooled up to do the job? There seem to be circumstances where SWC isn't a perfect system so it's best not to lose sleep over it. I like to think of it as a preliminary suggestion of whether the list is going to work or not but it doesn't always apply.

 bantha_beast wrote:

 Negator80 wrote:
Well, just like in 40k, you could ignore taking heavy weapons and say that bolters will 'do the job'. Or you could max out spitfires/HMGs and not only 'do the job' but do it well.

Not maxing out is gimping yourself.

This could be army specific though; I started with CA at 300 points and quickly learned how well HMG reaction drones, Spitfires with MSV2, and Panzerfausts lock down enemy positions and/or outright slaughter them.

And both of the units that you mention can easily be taken out of the game by 0 SWC cost units with combi/ rifles. There are still plenty of weapon options that are 0 SWC that will do a lot of damage like Mk 12s, AP rifles, T2 rifles, Viral rifles, ADHL's etc etc. And generally 'maxing out' your SWC just means you have a smaller number of obvious targets for the enemy to focus on. Taking some heavy weapons and taking some other 0 SWC units means you can aford to lose some of the heavy weapons and still spread the threats throughout your list.

Im not following how maxing SWC minimizes your threats, nor am i following how a unit with a special weapon being vulnerable to non SWC units makes them bad. I'm not advocating skipping a balanced force in favor of blindly filling out your SWC, just saying that not making it a priority is silly considering how superior special weapons are to non special.

 Negator80 wrote:
just saying that not making it a priority is silly considering how superior special weapons are to non special.

Except special weapons aren't always superior. A Mk12 does the damage of an HMG at one less burst, and generally costs no SWC. A heavy flamer does considerable direct template damage, and Haqqislam can take them on 14pt, 0 SWC Naffatun.

Another point is, while it's nice putting in things like HMGs and Spitfires, those units tend to also come with a considerable bump in points as well as SWC. Look at the Odalisque - the Spitfire is 1SWC, but 7 more points than the cheapest Odalisque. The Djanbazan HMG is 8pts and 1 SWC more than a Rifle. So simply squeezing in some last SWC on upgrades isn't always preferable if its going to drop your model count to an undesirable level - sometimes leaving out that Spitfire keeps your combat group at 10.

Finally - 'superior' in Infinity isn't as important as it is in say, 40k. The difference between a Meltagun and a Boltgun is so considerable you wouldn't hesitate to upgrade. The difference between a Spitfire and a Rifle isn't as big a difference, you're looking at one more Damage and burst and slightly different range brackets - a rifle will still kill a heavy infantry dead or hurt a TAG with a little luck.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Negator80 wrote:
just saying that not making it a priority is silly considering how superior special weapons are to non special.

Except special weapons aren't always superior. A Mk12 does the damage of an HMG at one less burst, and generally costs no SWC. A heavy flamer does considerable direct template damage, and Haqqislam can take them on 14pt, 0 SWC Naffatun.

Another point is, while it's nice putting in things like HMGs and Spitfires, those units tend to also come with a considerable bump in points as well as SWC. Look at the Odalisque - the Spitfire is 1SWC, but 7 more points than the cheapest Odalisque. The Djanbazan HMG is 8pts and 1 SWC more than a Rifle. So simply squeezing in some last SWC on upgrades isn't always preferable if its going to drop your model count to an undesirable level - sometimes leaving out that Spitfire keeps your combat group at 10.

Finally - 'superior' in Infinity isn't as important as it is in say, 40k. The difference between a Meltagun and a Boltgun is so considerable you wouldn't hesitate to upgrade. The difference between a Spitfire and a Rifle isn't as big a difference, you're looking at one more Damage and burst and slightly different range brackets - a rifle will still kill a heavy infantry dead or hurt a TAG with a little luck.

This^^, plus some time the SWC is not worth it based on match up. I love seeing HMG and Spitfire on non-MSV units, as my normal playstyle uses lots of camo and ODD. Now that HMG is worth maybe .5SWC but still cost 2SWC, while a LFT becomes a much more deadly weapon vs. my guys. It one of the reasons you should inform each other of what your playing before building a list. Also what mission your playing, as what you bring for a fire fight is different to what you bring to a intel gathering job. ,

I think it might be easy to forget, or not realize, that SWC is not in exclusion to the models points, an easy example are the HI were they have a boosted SWC value to keep their points cost down.

SAS CRAP is how it is described in AI by Aleph army builder, that's where I saw it first

Yep, it's a thing.

What is it?

Annoying?

A little.

SWC needs vary by army. Some powerful abilities (mines, camo, template weapons) are not SWC pointed. But other sorts of things are.

In general, PanO, Yu Jing, Aleph, CA, and Nomads want their SWC filled up. They've got the highest number of 'raw upgrade' SWC boosts (ie, Combi Rifle -> Spitfire) , and fewer 'low SWC cost, but as or more effective' options.

Typically, these are also factions that love paying 2 SWC for their awesome HI/Specialists to get that HMG or Spitfire.

For Ariadna and to a lesser extent, Haqq, you can really get by without maxing out. Though I suspect your list could become deadlier if you use at least 2/3rds of what you've got.

---

Basically, you don't have to fill out all your SWC. But you'd be probably advised to use at least 50 to 75 percent of it.

 Alpharius wrote:
Annoying?

That may be so, but to what does it refer?