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Me and a friend got into an argument about the future of the W40K Milky Way and decided to turn to the scholars and gentlemen of DakkaDakka to solve the dispute,

First off, the argument relies on the pretty widespread assumption that the current Tyranids in the galaxy are just the first few to reach us, and that the main body of Tyranids is still en route to the Milky Way. The one thing we can both agree on is that the IoM has no chance of facing the main fleet on its own when it arrives.

He believes, that the Orks can however, saying that such a very real threat to their continued existence would be enough to unite all the Orks in a galaxy wide WAAAGH!. He believes that this WAAAGH! would be enough to drive off the Tyranids, going with the fluff that states that the Orks would basically ROFL-stomp the rest of the forces in the galaxy if they would act together. He further states that even if they could not do it alone, the extreme threat of the Tyranids would be enough to force a temporary alliance between the IoM and the Orks. He also point to the Ork Empire of Octarius as an example that the orks can at the very least hold their own against a hive fleet, and states that Orks are famous for growing larger and larger during intense conflicts, which he states will soon lead to Carnifex sized Orks, capable of taking on anything the tyranids can throw at them

I can't get behind this idea however, the math just doesn't add up. The best metaphor for my reasoning I can think of, without trying to apply actual math to 40k ( a futile exercise if there ever was one), is that of humans on earth. We dominate the earth with our presence, but we weigh only a fraction of the total weight of all the organic material on the earth (422.5 bn kilograms of humans vs 1400000 bn kilograms of ocean alone!). If the Earth's organic matter were converted into Tyranids we would be completely fethed, and the same should apply on a galactic scale. It doesn't matter that orks are the most populous species in the galaxy, or that the imperial gaurd is made up of untold trillions, they are still only going to be a very small fraction of the total mass of all organic matter in the galaxy, and that is what the Tyranids are. They are the vast majority of all the organic matter from at least 1 (but likely far more) other galaxy given life, devastating weaponry and a singular mind, will and purpose. Even if every atom of organic matter in the milky way was to stand unified against the oncoming hive fleet, we would very likely still be outnumbered.

This brings us to my theory, which is that Chaos Undivided presents the only force in the galaxy with a chance in hell to deter the coming Great Devourer, and that they will almost certainly act to try save the galaxy from being eaten.

I base this on a few key facts, the most important of which is that Chaos, as much as it loves tormenting the native species of the galaxy, is utterly dependent on sentient life for its continued existence. If the Tyranids are successful in OMNOMNOM-ing the galaxy the warp will revert to its previous,calm state, with nary a nurgling to stir things up. This means the end of every deamon and all of the Chaos gods, a prospect I imagine they are less than thrilled with. The second fact is that Chaos, and deamons specifically, present the ideal force to combat the Tyranids . When a deamon dies it simply goes back to the warp, leaving no bio-matter for the Tyranids to consume and they literally have numbers without end, as a deamon can not be killed, only banished. They can fight anywhere, airless rocks included, and can materialize in great force almost instantly.

Coupled with the fact that the gods themselves are set to grow vastly in power once the main hive fleet arrives (War fuels Khorne, Despair and death fuels Nurgle, Change fuels Tzeech), I come to the conclusion that Chaos Undivided is the only chance the Milky way galaxy has, and that the gods will be forced to act together if they are to have any hope of survival.

So what does Dakka think? Does the IoM, sanding with the orks and perhaps even the other races native to the Milky Way, stand a chance against the coming Great Devourer, or will Chaos undivided have to step up to ensure its own survival?

Chaos Undivided? Hah! As the Tyranids devour the galaxy there will be fewer and fewer beings to worship the Dark Ones. Orks will not win, but they will survive. Only because some were smart enough to leave the galaxy. Unintentionally.

 Happyjew wrote:
Chaos Undivided? Hah! As the Tyranids devour the galaxy there will be fewer and fewer beings to worship the Dark Ones..

Only if they let the Tyranids get that far with devouring the galaxy. I can't imagine the gods as being stupid or near sighted. Surely they must appreciate the situation, namely that the longer they wait to intervene in the conflict, the weaker they will be and thus less able to win the war? They don't even need to work together on the same war-front, there will be fething PLENTY of Tyranids to go around.

No one can win. The best possible outcome is everything dies and then has its soul destroyed.

 xole wrote:
No one can win. The best possible outcome is everything dies and then has its soul destroyed.

What do you base this on? It is a completely legitimate theory, but I would appreciate hearing your reasoning behind thinking that there is nothing that the Milky Way can do to avoid being completely devoured.

I feel like every race has a climax about to be reached. The ones i can remember right now:

IoM - Primarchs returning/healing, Emps healing if let out of Golden Throne or dying and becoming a new god of Order in the Warp.

Eldar - All of them dying and their souls becoming the new Death God (forget his name). Not sure if all of them need to die but there is definitely a new god forming for the Eldar. Also cant remember if Dark Eldar fall into this or not.

Necrons - The Void Dragon, last C'tan that is unbroken into shards. Outsider trapped below the galaxy. Not to mention how many more Necrons are there that we don't know about. Maybe every world is a Tomb World.

Orks - If they were ever to band together...

Tyranids - The fleets who have fought in the milky way are just the tips of the main fleet.

Tau and Chaos are the only races I cant remember specifically about.

Believe that one day all of these events are going to happen at once and each is going to "level up" and be able to take on the threats.

In reality there may never be this climax in the fluff, just constant build up for decades and decades.

In regards to your question, I dont see IoM siding with Orks large scale. Maybe a small WAAGH here or there but never on a galactic scale. Too much hate and mistrust. Also believe Orks don't care if they die.

IIRC, Alpharius joined Chaos because if Chaos won the HH (and the galaxy) all human life would be dedicated to the dark gods and would burn itself into extinction in a matter of a few centuries leaving Chaos with nothing. Chaos would beat itself if it ever "won". The timing of Chaos winning would need to be right on the ball for when the main Hive Fleet arrived in order for it not to have extinguished itself. That being said the Gods saw the threat the Emperor was and made moves to undermine him immediately when the Primarchs were completed. Maybe they have another plan?

I personally believe that the Necrons are probably the best bet to defeat the Main Tyranid Fleet. They're no longer organic and do not use the warp so no problem dealing with the "Shadow" of the Hive Mind. May even be able to disrupt the Tyranid Synapse some how. Just my opinion.

On a side note are there any fluff encounters of the Necrons & Tyranids? Would be interested if this has any foreshadowing.

Oh, no, tyranids lose automatically by entropy. In the long run they can't get far before wearing themselves out.

The humans are a massive chunk of the galaxy, and despite their many flaws do display some competence from time to time. While not actually limitless they might as well be. Ultimately, though, they can't win, since with humans comes daemons.

Orks are pseudo-plant-fungus infestations that are more or less self sufficient, and can't really be taken off a planet once they've arrived. This leads to eternal war.

Daemons are effectively immortal so long as there are creatures with emotions, which includes the previously mentioned factions. Even if the entire human race were wiped out and we were left with orks this would be the case. This leads to eternal war.

Necrons used to be eternal soulless monsters, but thanks to the Great Beast they can now be killed in a permanent fashion. And anything that can be killed in a universe with the previously mentioned is bound to do so.

Dark Eldar and Eldar are essentially just Slaanesh toys, a dying race and much too small to amount to anything.

Tau are one imperial sneeze away from not existing.

The only way this could ever end is with the last sentient being being killed by the last daemon, who then ceased to exist.

Necrons used to be eternal soulless monsters, but thanks to the Great Beast they can now be killed in a permanent fashion

What is the Great Beast? Feel like I've missed something...

Ward. Well, and some stuff before that. Their tomb ships can be destroyed, and there doesn't seem to be a way to replace those. The World Engine was destroyed, and there definitely wasn't a way to replace that.

personally, I think that even if the nids ate every iota of bio mass from the previous galaxy, that quite a lot of it was used to get to this one.

I would say that all the various factions are a bout equal, excepting tau/eldar/DE who are really small, so any of the main ones allied could take out a lone third faction.


things beinghte way they are though, none will ally meaningfully enough to launch a campaign against the nids, best we will see is things like when the IOM tricked the nids into fighting the ork sector first

Ah I got ya now haha well I was still under the impression that no one can know/estimate how many Necrons there actually are in the galaxy and it was the ominous tone that there could be an army of them in every planet slumbering. I also thought that their "identities" were little more than code that could be transferred from body to body effectively making them immortal as long as they have a Necron "body"

 xole wrote:
Oh, no, tyranids lose automatically by entropy. In the long run they can't get far before wearing themselves out.

The humans are a massive chunk of the galaxy, and despite their many flaws do display some competence from time to time. While not actually limitless they might as well be. Ultimately, though, they can't win, since with humans comes daemons.

Orks are pseudo-plant-fungus infestations that are more or less self sufficient, and can't really be taken off a planet once they've arrived. This leads to eternal war.

Daemons are effectively immortal so long as there are creatures with emotions, which includes the previously mentioned factions. Even if the entire human race were wiped out and we were left with orks this would be the case. This leads to eternal war.

Necrons used to be eternal soulless monsters, but thanks to the Great Beast they can now be killed in a permanent fashion. And anything that can be killed in a universe with the previously mentioned is bound to do so.

Dark Eldar and Eldar are essentially just Slaanesh toys, a dying race and much too small to amount to anything.

Tau are one imperial sneeze away from not existing.

The only way this could ever end is with the last sentient being being killed by the last daemon, who then ceased to exist.

Well you definitely have embraced the GRIMDARK! Just a few notes, iirc the orks fuel Gork and Mork with their emotions, which is why they are the most powerful warp entities, being by far the most numerous and all. Secondly I also prefer OLDcrons by a massive margin, and they actually had a plan to end all life in the universe by severing the Warp and realspace, killing anything with a soul instantly.

Back on topic though, I have to disagree with your statement that the Nids will burn themselves out. By all accounts they should not be able to cross the incomprehensibly vast distances between galaxies, but they can in 40k, and the mere fact that they somehow crossed intergalactic space means that distance means nothing to them, they only need a galaxy sized snack at the end of their journey.

Just have the Necrons hide in some other dimension with some world engines, detonate the Celestial orrery as the Tyranids consume the entire galaxy, and reappear in a new, purged galaxy.

Then feth off to the next one. The Triangulum galaxy looks nice


Then again the Natives are a real bunch of jerks./Crysis

Far as I recall the main driving force of the Tyranids being present is assumed to be the Emperor himself. His psychic signal is basically a huge bug lamp drawing the Tyranids in from the cold of space.

This suggests that more and more hive fleets will pay attention and focus upon the galaxy. Thus far even single hive fleets have led massive assaults; smashing their way through the Galaxy (heck they ate a whole race and nearly ate the Ultra Marines). Unless the Tyranids don't continue to focus upon the galaxy or there is some external reason that causes their numbers to be significantly less than estimated then they would eventually win. Not only is their nature of combat superior to the other forces (with the exception of Tau almost all the other races are not advancing their war tech for various reasons - as a result a constantly evolving army will eventually out-tech them*) but they have weight of numbers and superior unity.

Orks would be second rated but only on the biggest if there is which is if they can ally together for long enough to pose a viable threat. They can raise huge armies, but something that would unit them all is just unprecidented. Could happen, but a big if.

The Imperium or Marines could pose a viable stand, but chances are they would have to be whitttled down into a corner to make a stand - even then chances are it would just be a stand. They don't have the numbers plus their own internal power struggles could undo them.

Chaos is an odd component and hard to guess at how they would react or be able to stand up to the Nids, but in theory the stronger the Tyranid become and the weaker the other races then the weaker Chaos itself becomes.

Tau, Dark Eldar and Eldar could have the tech, but seriously lack the wieght of numbers to really make a s trong stand - Tau even lack the capacity to make a serious stand in outer space. Also, as mentioned, they really are a tiny force; serious attention from the Imperium or any other faction could crush them.


Tyranids really are the greatest possible threat, the only defence is the hope that the mighty hive fleets are so broken up in the deep of space that they only come forth one at a time - of course one would expect the Hive Mind to adapt to this and save up several fleets in deep space and then make a more concentrated assault at multile points with multiple fleets. (far as we can tell Tyranids only fight each other because its table top game - although there are some arguments in the text that they operate battles to select the best strains to develop, but that isn't really combat in the traditional sense of hive fleets being at war with each other).


*in theory this should have happened already

Back on topic though, I have to disagree with your statement that the Nids will burn themselves out. By all accounts they should not be able to cross the incomprehensibly vast distances between galaxies, but they can in 40k, and the mere fact that they somehow crossed intergalactic space means that distance means nothing to them, they only need a galaxy sized snack at the end of their journey.

I wasn't even factoring in the distance since they travel FTL by manipulating a planet's gravity...or something. I'd allow them to make it from one galaxy to another with a relatively small amount of energy.

I was counting on the aforementioned planet's gravity. Landing on a planet is easy, getting off of it is hard. Tyranids are supposed to land on a planet, kill all of its inhabitants, then get off of it again, and somehow come out positive.

Well potentially the raw powers of chaos can call on more firepower then the ork's can alone. Ork's can rely on what they can build, bludgeon or grow but aside from accidentally frying their own kin, mystical power is kinda off limits to them.

HOWEVER

Should chaos even convert a 5th of the IoM as it stands, it would be a tremendous power boost to the dark Gods, these guys currently function of the juice of a few daemon worlds, some REALLY zealous supermen and the odd dodgy cult (I realize numerically its a lot more than that but compared to the vastness of even the besieged IoM its like a running a nuclear submarine off AAA batteries)

Should the Imperium fall wholesale to the worship of chaos, im not saying the universe would be a nice place to live, but it would... you know... LIVE. Think of the number of alpha level psykers added to the ranks just for starters, these guys can snap bio titans in half with a flick of the wrist. One of the main assets tyranids use against a foe is to terraform the environment to make it suitable to harvest but inimical to native lifeforms.

Daemons. Don't. Care.

Ever seen a Bloodthirster with a cold? you think those guys BREATHE? no no no. You essentially double the universes firepower by unlocking the full power of the warp. All those artifacts the inquisition and the Eldar found and hid, ROLL EM OUT KIDS AND KIDDIES.

They got ships that eat planets, PAH we have daemonically sentient planets that eat planets!

 xole wrote:

Back on topic though, I have to disagree with your statement that the Nids will burn themselves out. By all accounts they should not be able to cross the incomprehensibly vast distances between galaxies, but they can in 40k, and the mere fact that they somehow crossed intergalactic space means that distance means nothing to them, they only need a galaxy sized snack at the end of their journey.

I wasn't even factoring in the distance since they travel FTL by manipulating a planet's gravity...or something. I'd allow them to make it from one galaxy to another with a relatively small amount of energy.

I was counting on the aforementioned planet's gravity. Landing on a planet is easy, getting off of it is hard. Tyranids are supposed to land on a planet, kill all of its inhabitants, then get off of it again, and somehow come out positive.

Space Magic.

40k runs entirely on space magic.

Soace magic digestive systems, space magic plasma guns, space magic psykers, space magic "bigger than a god damn planet" void whales, space magic holograms of the galaxy that destroy stars whenever you disrupt their image in the Orrery, space magic EVERYTHING.

Tyranids don't land. Their ground forces land, but their Hive ships remain in orbit. As they infest the ground they grow massive capillary towers that feed food and resources up to the Hiveships.

The ship then simply orbits the planet sucking the resources out of it through a root network of towers - rather like a giant plant. They also only keep warriors and broods alive as long as they are needed - when not needed they are decomposed down back into the resource pool = though of course they always keep a guard of active warriors present.

Should the Imperium fall wholesale to the worship of chaos, im not saying the universe would be a nice place to live, but it would... you know... LIVE.

Think the book with the Cabal and Alpharius directly contradict this. IIRC they say flat out that if Chaos were to win the galaxy, humanity would burn itself out quickly. Hence why the Primarch chose to join Horus and help Chaos defeat itself quickly rather than a prolonged war.

Edit: The book is "Legion" by Dan Abnett

 Cold wrote:

Should the Imperium fall wholesale to the worship of chaos, im not saying the universe would be a nice place to live, but it would... you know... LIVE.

Think the book with the Cabal and Alpharius directly contradict this. IIRC they say flat out that if Chaos were to win the galaxy, humanity would burn itself out quickly. Hence why the Primarch chose to join Horus and help Chaos defeat itself quickly rather than a prolonged war.

Can you really take that at face value though.

1. They wanted an outcome so presented a scenario where they knew Alpharius would side with them.
2. The chaos gods may love killing humans and dicking each other over, but their not STUPID, they would be unlikely to exhaust their food source.
3. Alpharius put his trust in xenos over chaos, its like choosing liquid nitrogen over napalm.
4. I think the current state of affairs speak to exactly how prescient they were -_-

 Cold wrote:

Should the Imperium fall wholesale to the worship of chaos, im not saying the universe would be a nice place to live, but it would... you know... LIVE.

Think the book with the Cabal and Alpharius directly contradict this. IIRC they say flat out that if Chaos were to win the galaxy, humanity would burn itself out quickly. Hence why the Primarch chose to join Horus and help Chaos defeat itself quickly rather than a prolonged war.

Yeah I remember this too. Chaos is not very conductive to a society that lasts very long, with the whole BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD thing and all.

As to how the tyranids travel, they actually don't have FTL travel at all. They go into hibernation mode and 'lock onto' a planet they want to eat, manipulating the gravitational pull of the planet to pull the hive fleet to it, while at the same time causing all kinds of shenanigans on the affected planet. so yeah, SPACE MAGIC

One point I see that I forgot to talk about is the 'shadow on the warp', the effect on the warp of all those hundreds of trillions of Tyranids Instant messaging each other the whole time. Does it prevent demons from materializing? Because if it does the milky way is done.

 Overread wrote:
Tyranids don't land. Their ground forces land, but their Hive ships remain in orbit. As they infest the ground they grow massive capillary towers that feed food and resources up to the Hiveships.

The ship then simply orbits the planet sucking the resources out of it through a root network of towers - rather like a giant plant. They also only keep warriors and broods alive as long as they are needed - when not needed they are decomposed down back into the resource pool = though of course they always keep a guard of active warriors present.

Tyranid Ground Forces =/ Tyranids. Good to know.

And so they just build these massive towers and gobble up everything? Because that takes no energy(sarcasm).

Ignoring that, after they build these towers, what do they do with them? Do they just sit there? because that's not something you can just pick up with your ship and wander off with.

Horus654 wrote:

 Cold wrote:

Should the Imperium fall wholesale to the worship of chaos, im not saying the universe would be a nice place to live, but it would... you know... LIVE.

Think the book with the Cabal and Alpharius directly contradict this. IIRC they say flat out that if Chaos were to win the galaxy, humanity would burn itself out quickly. Hence why the Primarch chose to join Horus and help Chaos defeat itself quickly rather than a prolonged war.

Yeah I remember this too. Chaos is not very conductive to a society that lasts very long, with the whole BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD thing and all.

As to how the tyranids travel, they actually don't have FTL travel at all. They go into hibernation mode and 'lock onto' a planet they want to eat, manipulating the gravitational pull of the planet to pull the hive fleet to it, while at the same time causing all kinds of shenanigans on the affected planet. so yeah, SPACE MAGIC

One point I see that I forgot to talk about is the 'shadow on the warp', the effect on the warp of all those hundreds of trillions of Tyranids Instant messaging each other the whole time. Does it prevent demons from materializing? Because if it does the milky way is done.

Bull, the gravitic drives of the Narvhals explicitly drag them faster than the speed of light. It is slower on average, but infinitely more reliable than warp travel.

That being said it's still faster than Tau stutter drives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 xole wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Tyranids don't land. Their ground forces land, but their Hive ships remain in orbit. As they infest the ground they grow massive capillary towers that feed food and resources up to the Hiveships.

The ship then simply orbits the planet sucking the resources out of it through a root network of towers - rather like a giant plant. They also only keep warriors and broods alive as long as they are needed - when not needed they are decomposed down back into the resource pool = though of course they always keep a guard of active warriors present.

Tyranid Ground Forces =/ Tyranids. Good to know.

And so they just build these massive towers and gobble up everything? Because that takes no energy(sarcasm).

Ignoring that, after they build these towers, what do they do with them? Do they just sit there? because that's not something you can just pick up with your ship and wander off with.

Again, Space magic!

 xole wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Tyranids don't land. Their ground forces land, but their Hive ships remain in orbit. As they infest the ground they grow massive capillary towers that feed food and resources up to the Hiveships.

The ship then simply orbits the planet sucking the resources out of it through a root network of towers - rather like a giant plant. They also only keep warriors and broods alive as long as they are needed - when not needed they are decomposed down back into the resource pool = though of course they always keep a guard of active warriors present.

Tyranid Ground Forces =/ Tyranids. Good to know.

And so they just build these massive towers and gobble up everything? Because that takes no energy(sarcasm).

Ignoring that, after they build these towers, what do they do with them? Do they just sit there? because that's not something you can just pick up with your ship and wander off with.

Well of course it takes energy to build the tower but that is minimal compared to the energy they harvest from the planets sun whilst in orbit and compared to the resources on the planet itself whilst they harvest. Once done I've no idea, but I assume that the towers break down at their base, ie they eat themselves up back into space before moving on again.

But yeah it all runs on sci-fi magics

danp164 wrote:

 Cold wrote:

Should the Imperium fall wholesale to the worship of chaos, im not saying the universe would be a nice place to live, but it would... you know... LIVE.

Think the book with the Cabal and Alpharius directly contradict this. IIRC they say flat out that if Chaos were to win the galaxy, humanity would burn itself out quickly. Hence why the Primarch chose to join Horus and help Chaos defeat itself quickly rather than a prolonged war.

Can you really take that at face value though.

1. They wanted an outcome so presented a scenario where they knew Alpharius would side with them.
2. The chaos gods may love killing humans and dicking each other over, but their not STUPID, they would be unlikely to exhaust their food source.
3. Alpharius put his trust in xenos over chaos, its like choosing liquid nitrogen over napalm.
4. I think the current state of affairs speak to exactly how prescient they were -_-

I get what you're saying. I just feel like it fits that Chaos would consume itself. Tzeentch is the smartest but even he has a fate? Nurgle wants entropy and can get ultimate entropy when there is nothing left living. Slaanesh is a slave to new experiences, maybe dying is a temptation? Khorne I dont see ever stop wanting to murder/kill or maim and in real space he can easily burn out of his followers or kill other god followers. Are the gods truly intelligent/sentient beings with self preservation or are they just slaves to the emotions that gave them birth in the first place?

I believe the Cabal's predictions were right at that time, just when the Alpha Legion went rogue on them in Deliverance Lost and killed their agent for the Primarch genetic material that the outcome got screwed up. Or maybe its something they haven't written about yet.

We may never know!

Back on track, I still think that Necrons are the strongest force to fight the Tyranids assuming there are A LOT more than currently suggested. If they can keep producing Necrodermis shells/bodies for the Necron personalities whose bodies are destroyed they can perpetually fight the Tyranids forever until they exhaust their biomass stores. As mentioned though, if the Emperor were to die (and man with him) the warp light that is attracting the nids would go out, I would think the Tyranids would mostly leave. Eldar and Tau cant offer much since they are small in number and not that attractive to the Hive Mind. Orks can't repopulate a Tyranid consumed world, all neutrients are gone from soil and atmosphere so their fungus cant grow. Necrons would find this cozy however and offer no additional biomass to the Hive Fleets.

I'm not even sure if the Necrons even appear on the Hive Mind's radar with zero biomass and zero warp presence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Random thought, if the Tyranids are just searching for more biomass/energy, why haven't they evolved into a giant Dyson Sphere around a star? I'm sure they could gain wayyy more energy that way.

I get it though, a giant space monster that eats stars isn't as fun as an army of insect-lizzard monsters.

I suspect harvesting the suns themsleves is their last phase before leaving a Galaxy. Leave the suns alive as a renewable resource point for the movement of the hive through the Galaxy whilst they harvest the biomass - also note I'm fairly sure they eat metals and ores as well; so Necrons would still register (plus once identified as a threat I doubt they'd just ignore or leave them behind on a planet).

The Necrons (or at least, the Silent King) intends to take a stand against the Tyranids. The question is whether he'll wake up and unite enough Tomb Worlds in time.

Chaos' "climax" is that Abaddon plans on covering the galaxy in the warp by overloading Cadia's pylons and several other things (such a massive goal doesn't come easy). If they succeed in that, Tyrannids won't have a chance. They have to actually succeed in doing that first, though (again, no easy feat).

The Tau don't have a "climax". It'd be a funny galaxy if the Tau had something that could threaten it.

We'll assume Dark Eldar shares their's with the Eldar (Ynnead). If not, then they're basically the same as the Tau.

 Cold wrote:

Should the Imperium fall wholesale to the worship of chaos, im not saying the universe would be a nice place to live, but it would... you know... LIVE.

Think the book with the Cabal and Alpharius directly contradict this. IIRC they say flat out that if Chaos were to win the galaxy, humanity would burn itself out quickly. Hence why the Primarch chose to join Horus and help Chaos defeat itself quickly rather than a prolonged war.

Edit: The book is "Legion" by Dan Abnett

Alpharius sided with Horus like the Cabal told him to. Horus lost, anyways. Good job, Cabal.

I too think it's a stupid idea that the gods would extinguish themselves. The chaos gods have Tzeentch, the master manipulator and god of hope. He's going to figure out a way to keep Chaos going if Chaos consumes the galaxy.

Pretty sure there are several planets older than the Imperium that are corrupted to Chaos in the Black Crusades RPG series, if you count FFG. I could be wrong, though.

TiamatRoar wrote:


We'll assume Dark Eldar shares their's with the Eldar (Ynnead). If not, then they're basically the same as the Tau.

The DE might be a smaller faction, but they are living outside of realspace so it is possible the nids come in, completely pass through the galaxy and then leave.

 Exergy wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:


We'll assume Dark Eldar shares their's with the Eldar (Ynnead). If not, then they're basically the same as the Tau.

The DE might be a smaller faction, but they are living outside of realspace so it is possible the nids come in, completely pass through the galaxy and then leave.

And go where exactly? The closest galaxy, Andromeda, is 2.54 million light-years away from us. That is unbelievably, mind bogglingly far away, and might have been eaten by the Nids already. There is no escaping them,only fighting and maybe, just maybe rebuking them.

 Exergy wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:


We'll assume Dark Eldar shares their's with the Eldar (Ynnead). If not, then they're basically the same as the Tau.

The DE might be a smaller faction, but they are living outside of realspace so it is possible the nids come in, completely pass through the galaxy and then leave.

It's quite likely there are no galaxies in the local cluster to flee to. It's quite likely that both the Triangulum and Andromeda galaxies as well as their satellites are all stripped bare.