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barboggo wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:


I don't use Obliterators, but other guys do. They are more effective as a shield for a buffing character in your deployment zone. With a 24" weapon and no bonus to being closer to the enemy, there is no reason to teleport in. With their small footprint, you can easily fit them in cover (and should). 9 wounds at 1+ isn't going anywhere unless you suck at rolling saves. Teleporting them closer is just giving them to your enemy.

Might as well teleport them in on T1 in your deployment zone if you're going to do that. That way you get to position them after your opponent's T1 move if you end up going second. In fact I can't see any scenarios where teleporting isn't the right move. Unless somehow your character literally has no other screen. You can always drop them on top of your buffing character as soon as it's your turn.

Well, your opponent may also be fast enough to screw up your own deployment zone in T1 for deepstrikers...

Does anyone in this thread know anything about how good the new Gellerpox Infected are as a possible ally to Chaos forces?

Delightful Agonies was awesome on my land raider, real quick, and the machine worked out awesomely.

Never got tied up in melee.

Unfortunately 2/3 of my opponents played IG parking lots that I just couldn't keep up with, considering the FLGS has no LoS blocking terrain (and when it does, it's in a corner, and Wyverns).

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Does anyone in this thread know anything about how good the new Gellerpox Infected are as a possible ally to Chaos forces?

As far as I'm aware, the codex hasn't been released yet. So no idea.

At a guess though, I suspect they'll be much the same as adding any of the Nurgle elite options from death guard.

I also suspect they'll be systematically worse than any of the new Rogue Trader allies, but that's just a guess.

Without the cynicism though, I'm looking forward to the release, if only to see what GW are up to with their rules at the moment.

I'm my above photos, what would be helpful vs that firing range lack of LoS terrain? I'm thinking of infiltrating 15 possessed and possibly 40 cultists to tie up what they can reach in melee, with the drake and warptimed prince.

I don't own predators for a counter shootout and my havoks are 4 autocannon, 2 missiles, 2 heavy bolters. No oblits :(

Dactylartha wrote:
I'm my above photos, what would be helpful vs that firing range lack of LoS terrain? I'm thinking of infiltrating 15 possessed and possibly 40 cultists to tie up what they can reach in melee, with the drake and warptimed prince.

I don't own predators for a counter shootout and my havoks are 4 autocannon, 2 missiles, 2 heavy bolters. No oblits :(

-Don't use possesed. You'd be better off with chosen and even those are to pricy for what they can do. Take a look at the cult marines instead, especially Khorneberzerkers can profit massivly from an infilitration, Noise marines also can do decent shenaniganry.

-Havocs aren't half bad either and your weaponry is decent enough, allbeit the rocket launchers are now compared to autocannons and lascannons a bit to pricy imo. They also can do plasma shenaniganry like the chosen but are cheaper for the same durability.

-40 Cultists could be used instead for your non infiltrating units as a blob of cover, they have anyways tide of traitors which brings them back even after near total anahilation in the right positions forwards so no need for infiltration. Or you infiltrate at the start, with assult guns and slaanesh double shooting aswell as VotlW and watch as nearly anything dies in a bullethose that makes punisher leman russes look bad. (Afterwards feel free to charge whatever is left to tie up the enemy)

-Alternate take, go soviet union on your enemy. (Iron warriors warlord trait + 40 man blobs.)

Thanks for the reply.

My berserkers are at the moment in the land raider. Was thinking of using the possessed because they won't kill what they surround and can trap a flank so they don't get shot up when the other guy gets his turn, same with cult. Berzerkers will kill too many things and expose themselves. I love my possessed but man they're so over priced for a medicore fighter.

Was debating Skarbrand: would give fearless but I'm not allowed to use non-auxiliary detachments outside CSM codex, and he'd have to hoof it up the board with the army (and would force everything to be Khorne marked eliminating my sorcerers). Not attractive. And on top of that, the competitors at my FLGS like their las-cannon tanks.

Dactylartha wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

My berserkers are at the moment in the land raider. Was thinking of using the possessed because they won't kill what they surround and can trap a flank so they don't get shot up when the other guy gets his turn, same with cult. Berzerkers will kill too many things and expose themselves. I love my possessed but man they're so over priced for a medicore fighter.

Was debating Skarbrand: would give fearless but I'm not allowed to use non-auxiliary detachments outside CSM codex, and he'd have to hoof it up the board with the army (and would force everything to be Khorne marked eliminating my sorcerers). Not attractive. And on top of that, the competitors at my FLGS like their las-cannon tanks.

Killing things too quickly would've been a problem in 7th. If you don't kill it this edition, the unit will just fall back, meaning they're still alive to hold an objective and then your unit gets shot.

Not if you encircle it, you can't get shot if it's stuck in nelee with you.

Dactylartha wrote:
Not if you encircle it, you can't get shot if it's stuck in nelee with you.

I play IG and Daemons and in my experience it's way too easy to avoid being encircled by zerkers, it's too easy to spread out and make it near impossible when you see the charge coming. What you really want to do is charge one unit and pilenin real close to another one(that you didn't charge but is next to unit you charging), that way when you wipe the squad to charged you can consolidate into the second squad. They can still fall back and leave you exposed but you've at least killed one unit and taken another unit out of their shooting phase for a turn so hopefully less dakka at you.

Dactylartha wrote:
Not if you encircle it, you can't get shot if it's stuck in nelee with you.

You can't bank on encircling when the opponent can pick casualties. One model to morale? Lose that one that is trapped of course.

That’s a pretty rough map, @Dactylartha. I faced something similar but with Long Fangs and a Spartan against my Slaanesh Daemonkin. I gambled the house on a super-buffed Heldrake eating their Rune Priest T1, whilst my Defilers and Maulerfiend ran the gauntlet. It did work out when my Smites started getting into range and my Fiends of Slaanesh started forcing enemy units to stay in combat and and take their punishment. If anything can get a unit to reach a gunline, it’s Warptime and DA.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Dactylartha wrote:
Not if you encircle it, you can't get shot if it's stuck in nelee with you.

You can't bank on encircling when the opponent can pick casualties. One model to morale? Lose that one that is trapped of course.

I completely agree and understand, though the strategy would be to try to encircle a vehicle.

Regardless, it's very risky gamble. Even with a 7' move, the possessed would need roughly 6+" charge (getting reroll) without a blocked path to get a model to all 4 sides of the tank. If i can manage to encircle the vehicle and touch with pile-in/consolidate the other units, I want to believe that could shut down a handful of non-Ultramarine non-flyer shooters. I don't want to charge every unit, just the one, so only that thing gets to overwatch.

What I'm asking, is how to accomplish that, and my current plan would be the possessed and cultists (and helldrake and whatever is warptimed)

Has anyone tried AL Raptors? Deep strike deployment then 12” move...

 lindsay40k wrote:
Has anyone tried AL Raptors? Deep strike deployment then 12” move...

Interesting, and a whole lot cheaper than possessed. Unfortunately I only have 5. 12" move after 9.1" distance deployment would make wrapping a whole lot easier.

Dactylartha wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Has anyone tried AL Raptors? Deep strike deployment then 12” move...

Interesting, and a whole lot cheaper than possessed. Unfortunately I only have 5. 12" move after 9.1" distance deployment would make wrapping a whole lot easier.

On this note, it’s worth remembering that Raptors (and Warp Talons, and Plague Drones, and Screamers, and you get the idea) seem to be able to finish a charge on the opposite side of the model’s they charged.

Potentially even do it as a pile-in, if base sizes permit.

At least until we win a tournament with it and it gets closed down

You should ignore Warp Talons for that purpose though as they're just all bad. Raptors accomplish the job for cheaper.

15 bare-bones raptors = 255 pts. With icon and 3 special gear dudes ~300 pts, only a little cheaper than possessed, but a lot more maneuverable.

Seems like a fun trick that I'm not going to buy and paint 2 more boxes of raptors to try out (before it gets FAQd out anyway). Probably not anyway. If I had the models I'd probably go with it.

Possessed would obviously be more durable to different kinds of weapons but we aren't looking for any tanking in this situation. At least they kinda have a niche this edition compared to previous editions?

Dactylartha wrote:
15 bare-bones raptors = 255 pts. With icon and 3 special gear dudes ~300 pts, only a little cheaper than possessed, but a lot more maneuverable.

Seems like a fun trick that I'm not going to buy and paint 2 more boxes of raptors to try out (before it gets FAQd out anyway). Probably not anyway. If I had the models I'd probably go with it.

I don't see why they'd FAQ it out now, every fly unit in the game has been able to do this for over a year now and they haven't done anything about it yet.

And it's in no way overpowered... it's literally the whole point of having a <FLY> character (being able to jump over enemies/obstacles)

Just facetiousness.

So I just impulse-bought Cypher because he looks effin cool. How do I make him work? Just field him with Plasma Fallen and call it a day or are there more intricate tactics involved here?

BertBert wrote:
So I just impulse-bought Cypher because he looks effin cool. How do I make him work? Just field him with Plasma Fallen and call it a day or are there more intricate tactics involved here?

Cypher tactics are hard because he has to foot slog. Like most other characters, he's going to be moving across the board behind other units.

One of the things he has that no other Chaos unit has is the Imperium keyword. There are a few auras that buff all units with the Imperium keyword and you can take advantage of that. Gulliman, for example, buffs all Imperium units in 12 inches with +1 to advance and charge rolls. Remember, Cypher can fall back & advance AND shoot his pistols, so something like this could actually be useful. I would have to look at the Index, but I'm pretty sure Inquisitors have similar auras.

Using your opponent's auras is not much, but it's something. With regards to Plasma Fallen - they're not worth it. Think about the number of cultists you get for the same cost.

 techsoldaten wrote:

BertBert wrote:
So I just impulse-bought Cypher because he looks effin cool. How do I make him work? Just field him with Plasma Fallen and call it a day or are there more intricate tactics involved here?

Cypher tactics are hard because he has to foot slog. Like most other characters, he's going to be moving across the board behind other units.

One of the things he has that no other Chaos unit has is the Imperium keyword. There are a few auras that buff all units with the Imperium keyword and you can take advantage of that. Gulliman, for example, buffs all Imperium units in 12 inches with +1 to advance and charge rolls. Remember, Cypher can fall back & advance AND shoot his pistols, so something like this could actually be useful. I would have to look at the Index, but I'm pretty sure Inquisitors have similar auras.

Using your opponent's auras is not much, but it's something. With regards to Plasma Fallen - they're not worth it. Think about the number of cultists you get for the same cost.

You know, I never considered that Cypher could in theory use enemy auras... don't those I checked and yeh they specify 'friendly imperial' so no Cypher can't use enemy auras against them.

Which is a shame cos that would be an interesting quirk for the character and might actually give him some use. At the moment though the fallen and cypher seem fairly useless. Give them a vehicle though and things would be a bit different.

"Think about the number of cultists you get for the same cost" - This could very easily be the answer any of the unit choices in the codex though, which is why I limit my number of cultists to a sensible number. Otherwise things would be very boring.

(Even though a 2000 point cultist game with ... 10x 40-man squads, so 400 cultists, and a couple of HQ's, does sound like fun in theory, I don't think anyone is going to run that kind of game more than once lol.

How do 400-odd Cultists do against 300-odd Poxwalkers?

Assume HQ tax is Typhus buffing their T, and a Sorcerer on Palanquin Warptiming them. Also a Blightbringer is making them advance quicker. Maybe a Tallyman as well?

 lindsay40k wrote:
How do 400-odd Cultists do against 300-odd Poxwalkers?

Assume HQ tax is Typhus buffing their T, and a Sorcerer on Palanquin Warptiming them. Also a Blightbringer is making them advance quicker. Maybe a Tallyman as well?

Do poxwallkers have a "tide of traitors equivalent?
Since that would with hq tax considered mean that you bring over capacity in pts (basically instead of 1600pts Cultist field in essence 1760 with tide)

Poxwallkers are also melee only so kinda unflexible.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
How do 400-odd Cultists do against 300-odd Poxwalkers?

Assume HQ tax is Typhus buffing their T, and a Sorcerer on Palanquin Warptiming them. Also a Blightbringer is making them advance quicker. Maybe a Tallyman as well?

Do poxwallkers have a "tide of traitors equivalent?
Since that would with hq tax considered mean that you bring over capacity in pts (basically instead of 1600pts Cultist field in essence 1760 with tide)

Poxwallkers are also melee only so kinda unflexible.

Well, Poxwalkers gain a model for every enemy infantry they kill in the fight phase, so if the enemy has a bunch of cultists of their own it might rack up a few extra bodies.

Also they have a stratagem which makes that rule even more efficient in theory, but only if you have non-poxwalkers around you, so probably not so good if you're fielding a 300 poxwalker only list.

Niiru wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
How do 400-odd Cultists do against 300-odd Poxwalkers?

Assume HQ tax is Typhus buffing their T, and a Sorcerer on Palanquin Warptiming them. Also a Blightbringer is making them advance quicker. Maybe a Tallyman as well?

Do poxwallkers have a "tide of traitors equivalent?
Since that would with hq tax considered mean that you bring over capacity in pts (basically instead of 1600pts Cultist field in essence 1760 with tide)

Poxwallkers are also melee only so kinda unflexible.

Well, Poxwalkers gain a model for every enemy infantry they kill in the fight phase, so if the enemy has a bunch of cultists of their own it might rack up a few extra bodies.

Also they have a stratagem which makes that rule even more efficient in theory, but only if you have non-poxwalkers around you, so probably not so good if you're fielding a 300 poxwalker only list.

In matched play you have to pay reinforcement points for each and every Poxwalker you get in this way over the unit's starting strength (as per the last big FAQ, which nerfed the Poxwalker Farm lists). To me Poxwalkers became garbage once they implemented that, but they were being widely abused.

Let’s assume the Cultists have Abaddon.
75% of their shots hit
33% of them wound, so 25% aggregate
67% of them get past DR, so 17% final aggregate
400 Cultists firing at long range kill 67 Poxwalkers

Next turn, assume that the Poxwalkers are close enough that half the Cultists can double tap. Another 100 Poxwalkers die

A unit of Poxwalkers gets into combat and have enough numbers for the +1 to hit.
75% of their attacks hit.
66% of their hits wound, so 50% aggregate
83% of their wounds get through armour, so 41% final aggregate
Assume the Cultists have been prioritising the closer units and there’s only 20 Poxwalkers left in this unit. If you’ve popped Prescience or VotLW, that’ll probably pip 50% and kill 20 Cultists whilst reviving 20 Poxwalkers

Current likely numbers: 140-160 Poxwalkers, 380 Cultists

Surviving Cultists fall back, remaining 360 Cultists Kill 122 Poxwalkers

20-40 Poxwalkers are lucky to survive overwatch and if they do will be ripped apart by weight of numbers and enveloped to deny places to put risen dead

Yeah, this farm isn’t a fertile one

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Niiru wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
How do 400-odd Cultists do against 300-odd Poxwalkers?

Assume HQ tax is Typhus buffing their T, and a Sorcerer on Palanquin Warptiming them. Also a Blightbringer is making them advance quicker. Maybe a Tallyman as well?

Do poxwallkers have a "tide of traitors equivalent?
Since that would with hq tax considered mean that you bring over capacity in pts (basically instead of 1600pts Cultist field in essence 1760 with tide)

Poxwallkers are also melee only so kinda unflexible.

Well, Poxwalkers gain a model for every enemy infantry they kill in the fight phase, so if the enemy has a bunch of cultists of their own it might rack up a few extra bodies.

Also they have a stratagem which makes that rule even more efficient in theory, but only if you have non-poxwalkers around you, so probably not so good if you're fielding a 300 poxwalker only list.

In matched play you have to pay reinforcement points for each and every Poxwalker you get in this way over the unit's starting strength (as per the last big FAQ, which nerfed the Poxwalker Farm lists). To me Poxwalkers became garbage once they implemented that, but they were being widely abused.

"Over the units starting strength" is the important part there, poxwalkers are likely to have taken casualties on their way to the enemy, so it's still free to replenish their ranks, they just cant go above what they had to start with. So go for big units and run them in front of all the guns.

Cultists would still be better though I think