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going off topic dudes, theres a thread about ideas for the codex already

My common opponents include EC with Slanesh Daemons, Imperial Fists, Dark Angel Greenwing, Tau and Tzeench Daemons.
I assure you ork shooting isn't stellar even if -1 to hit is no issue at all. Facing an allaitoc army is just the final nail in the coffin.

 Jidmah wrote:
My common opponents include EC with Slanesh Daemons, Imperial Fists, Dark Angel Greenwing, Tau and Tzeench Daemons.
I assure you ork shooting isn't stellar even if -1 to hit is no issue at all. Facing an allaitoc army is just the final nail in the coffin.

It’s ridiculosuly stupid -2 to hit and it’s inpossible to roll a 7...however if you allow yourself to fire overwatch you always hit on a 6. Orks are fine at bs5 if we get enough dakka but we seriously need some defense against neg hit modifiers.

gungo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
My common opponents include EC with Slanesh Daemons, Imperial Fists, Dark Angel Greenwing, Tau and Tzeench Daemons.
I assure you ork shooting isn't stellar even if -1 to hit is no issue at all. Facing an allaitoc army is just the final nail in the coffin.

It’s ridiculosuly stupid -2 to hit and it’s inpossible to roll a 7...however if you allow yourself to fire overwatch you always hit on a 6. Orks are fine at bs5 if we get enough dakka but we seriously need some defense against neg hit modifiers.

Game wise rule 6 always hits. Done.

honestly I think giving orks a rule like remaking strategem Dakka Dakka Dakka 1cp
Orks Get +1 to hit for every additional ork unit that targets the chosen unit in the shooting phase.

So if 2 ork units target the unit they get +1 each to hit, if 3 units target the unit they get +2 to hit each, of 4 units target the same unit they each get +3 each to hit... You are basically overkiling a single unit but it also doesn’t work on mek guns or kans which aRe manned by Gretchen.

That’s what I want!!!

gungo wrote:
honestly I think giving orks a rule like remaking strategem Dakka Dakka Dakka 1cp
Orks Get +1 to hit for every additional ork unit that targets the chosen unit in the shooting phase.

So if 2 ork units target the unit they get +1 each to hit, if 3 units target the unit they get +2 to hit each, of 4 units target the same unit they each get +3 each to hit... You are basically overkiling a single unit but it also doesn’t work on mek guns or kans which aRe manned by Gretchen.

That’s what I want!!!

Honestly I think it wpuld be fluffy and cool if orkz were allowed to split fire in the shooting phase and got +2 BS for targeting 3 or more units

 davou wrote:
going off topic dudes, theres a thread about ideas for the codex already

Very true, unfortunately since we don't have a codex yet and there are no legitimate tactics to discuss that haven't been beaten to death multiple times we are devolving into our wish list mode. I mean if you want we can rehash how nothing is as good as Boyz this edition and how Lootas aren't worth taking ever compared to Mek Gunz right now.

 Jidmah wrote:

Let's just assume they are trying to get it right this time for a second

Be honest - do you really believe that?

I legitimately lost hope when I saw the Ghazghkull book. The writing alone was such a decline from the Kelly book's fluff. I just didn't sense that they cared for the product.

Hello Guys,

I just fought nids last weekend and i had a real hard time with the big stufs (carnifex, old one eye, swarmlord...). How do you beat them??
I just used boyz but they manage to engage my support units (painboy, nobz with banner...) and it was over...
Only the back biggunz/mekgunz survieved

Kustom mega kannons(at least at shootable big monsters) and power klaw/big choppa nobz in boyz squads. Plus simply pile of attacks hitting on 3+, wounding on 5+ and them having like 3+ save. 29 boyz do cause 8.5 wounds in average so not so insignificant. Trick is getting them there as he likely has gaunts to tie you up. Ergo the bigger leaders. Getting charge with warboss can also help though only with 1 warboss(multiple and strategem intercept will splatter 1 so if you charge with 2 make sure you charge with 3+ instead.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Let's just assume they are trying to get it right this time for a second

Be honest - do you really believe that?

I legitimately lost hope when I saw the Ghazghkull book. The writing alone was such a decline from the Kelly book's fluff. I just didn't sense that they cared for the product.

So did I.

But, the supplement that shall not be named had the old management's handwriting all over it, so I'm willing to give the new management at least one shot at getting it right.

The index was just transferring the crappy 7th edition codex into a slightly less crappy 8th edition. At least they gave us the banner nob, da jump (the first really good psychic power in the history of 40k orks), made deff rollas better than totally useless and returned Thrakka to his old glory.
Granted, the difference in work put into the ork index compared to the space marine index is baffling, but same could be said for index tyranids, tau or dark eldar, who all got decent codices. I'm kind of curious about codex:knights, since it might be a sneak peak of what nauts could become.

Beyond that it's very simple: if you assume they don't give a damn about the codex, sell your orks and start a new army or drop the game. There is literally nothing else left to do if you assume that GW isn't even trying to get it right.

So yes, I do have hopes for the ork codex actually being well-done, based on how well many other codices have been done this edition. However, I won't be overly surprised if turns out to be an ignited garbage disposal site.

I learned that a trukk is pretty good to tie the gaunts up

 Jidmah wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Let's just assume they are trying to get it right this time for a second

Be honest - do you really believe that?

I legitimately lost hope when I saw the Ghazghkull book. The writing alone was such a decline from the Kelly book's fluff. I just didn't sense that they cared for the product.

The index was just transferring the crappy 7th edition codex into a slightly less crappy 8th edition. At least they gave us the banner nob, da jump (the first really good psychic power in the history of 40k orks), made deff rollas better than totally useless and returned Thrakka to his old glory.

you forgot the vast improvement to "mob rule" in the index, vs 7th - if we didn't have that, even boyz wouldn't be anywhere near as good as they are!

Right! 7th edition mob rule was so terrible my memory keeps overwriting the memory of it with quotes from lolcat pictures.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Let's just assume they are trying to get it right this time for a second

Be honest - do you really believe that?

I legitimately lost hope when I saw the Ghazghkull book. The writing alone was such a decline from the Kelly book's fluff. I just didn't sense that they cared for the product.

I have to call stupidity instead of malice for the Ghazzy supplement because that thing had nothing above mediocre from cover to cover. No one involved in that book put much effort into rules or fluff, and the formations were a cluster of misc traits and models slapped together. It managed to out-bland the 7e codex’s lore, which was 50% copy+paste and 25% just pictures of painted minis. That book was not indicative of GW’s take on orks because it barely indicated basic editing skills. But I digress. The rules for orks in the index were about average in terms of overall power level and usefulness compared to other index armies. Codices since then have been mixed, with some fixing nothing and others drastically improving problems while toning down unbalances. With orks being near-last to get their codex I think it’ll expand on the fixes in the last few FAQs designed to give our useless stuff some utility without destroying the core of the army.

 Jidmah wrote:
Right! 7th edition mob rule was so terrible my memory keeps overwriting the memory of it with quotes from lolcat pictures.

I tipycally played with fearless meganobz, 5 man squads of bustas, bikes and a couple of min squads of boyz in boyz in trukks.... mob rule wasn't that big deal in 7th.

I actually had a lot of fun with orks in 7th even against competitive lists. Now 70% of my collection is impossible to field even in friendly games, and I'm sure that even with a mid tier codex orks will be way more fun to play with the codex. For me they're now shelved, I have enough of playing with the index. 8th edition with index is by far the worst edition ever. I miss the Ghaz supplement, which was gold in comparison

 Blackie wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Right! 7th edition mob rule was so terrible my memory keeps overwriting the memory of it with quotes from lolcat pictures.

I tipycally played with fearless meganobz, 5 man squads of bustas, bikes and a couple of min squads of boyz in boyz in trukks.... mob rule wasn't that big deal in 7th.

I actually had a lot of fun with orks in 7th even against competitive lists. Now 70% of my collection is impossible to field even in friendly games, and I'm sure that even with a mid tier codex orks will be way more fun to play with the codex. For me they're now shelved, I have enough of playing with the index. 8th edition with index is by far the worst edition ever. I miss the Ghaz supplement, which was gold in comparison

well yeah, I guess mob rule wasn't a big deal in 7th, because it might as well have not even existed, for all the good it did!...I, however, always liked running green tide style lists, so the index mob rule is bloody fantastic for me!...take 2-4 30-man mobs (depending on the size of the game), and they might as well be completely immune to morale!

While walking in national park i had crazy idea. Might be illegal though. Will check later when i get back to books but at times da jumping boyz feels wasta as others could do job as well and unit tends to die. Especially as jumped mobs can actually care about morale.

So i thought. What about gretchins? That would be fun. Da jumping 30 dirt cheap wounds to take objectives or roadblock. At some terrain could with clever position roadblock or at least even flyers and knights. Alas i think gretchins aren't legal da jump target :(

tneva82 wrote:
While walking in national park i had crazy idea. Might be illegal though. Will check later when i get back to books but at times da jumping boyz feels wasta as others could do job as well and unit tends to die. Especially as jumped mobs can actually care about morale.

So i thought. What about gretchins? That would be fun. Da jumping 30 dirt cheap wounds to take objectives or roadblock. At some terrain could with clever position roadblock or at least even flyers and knights. Alas i think gretchins aren't legal da jump target :(

They are legal, Da Jump works on infantry. However, if you think Morale is an issue with Boyz that are jumped wait until you see Grotz lose a morale test

I mean if you really want you can jump grots and daisy chain them back to a herder if you want and then use them as area denial, but don't expect them to do more then die.

Yeah i'm not expecting them to survive but then again often with boyz i don#t them to survive either. And time to time i don#t even expect them to kill anything. Or i expect them to just sit there holding objective. And when used to speed bump they are quaranteed to do job as he can't clear them before movement phase.

Tyranids might(not sure as i'm not familiar of their curren' meta) hate 60" wall of dirt cheap bodies and last tournament bikes would have hated that line as well. Shoota boyz were bit better but not sure were they twice as good seeing main job was to draw them out to where i wanted them and i fully expected them to die(which they did).

I can see times i could use this.

Too bad meta is gunlines or jump pack assaults which hurt this. Old fashioned rhino rush could hate having to clear several waves of speed bump lines

Alright, so I have just about finalized my list for a 1750 tournament, I would like constructive criticism please. It is an ITC event so it will be using the new rules (Rule of 3 and what not)

Brigade Detachment.

HQs:
Ghazghkull Thraka
Weirdboy
Weirdboy

TROOPS:
30x Boyz (Nob)
30x Boyz (Nob)
30x Boyz (Nob)
30x Boyz (Nob)
10x Boyz (Nob)
10x Boyz (Nob)

ELITES:
5x Kommandos (Nob, 2 Burnas)
5x Kommandos (Nob, 2 Burnas)
Nob With Waaagh Banner
Painboy

FAST ATTACK:
6x Stormboyz (Nob)
6x Stormboyz (Nob)
5x Stormboyz (Nob)

HEAVY SUPPORT:
1x KMK
2x KMK
2x KMK

I originally wanted to take less Kommandos and stormboyz and just use 180ish Boyz but then I played a practice game and getting that many models set up, deployed and moving was slowing the game down way to much so I decided to remove 40 Boyz from the list and buy more expensive things with fewer model counts. The idea is to daisy chain everyone back to the Painboy/Banner Nob and ghaz to maximize the benefits, I will use 1 Weirdboy for "Da Jump" and 1 for "Warpath". I didn't equip any of the nobz with anything because I just don't think Big Choppas or PowerKlaws are worth their points anymore.

My goal is going to be to Tie up my enemies troops on turns 1 and 2 and then on turn 3 deploy my Kommandos to uncontested Objectives or objectives with light defense. I will always have the ability to jump boyz if I need to but Kommandos are just so sneaky and I can't make a list without some of them in it! Hopefully by turn 4 my enemy is either to weak or too far away from the Kommando objectives to do much more then fire harassment shots at them. If possible I want Ghaz and some boyz to get stuck in and start really Krump'n Stuff. There is a distinct possibility that I could have a unit of boyz with 6 attacks each (2 base, 1 choppa, 1 20+ models, Warpath and 1 for Ghaz) hitting on 2s (Banner Nob) Completely overkill but come on! talk about demoralizing (I have 180 attacks, hitting on 2s, here is the first batch of 60!)

So what do you ladz think?

Why the brigade? We don't have stratagems or D6 damage weapons, there's no need of that many CPs.

I prefer giving up some useless CPs and give pks to the nobz since in units of 30 dudes with warpath, ghaz and the banner those klaws can do something and definitely worth 13 points. The min squad of boyz are ok with bare bones nobz instead.

I'd cut the min units of stormboyz, which I never liked. Alternatively I'd merge the KMKs into a single squad, or maybe two and all the stormboyz into a single squad as well.

I find CP\s to soak with auto morale passing(da jumped squads in particular) and counter charges. Albeit I usually settle for 2 battallions.

I'm not sold on warpath+da jump combo. I rarely seem to get warpath actually work. Da jumped it's 50-50 if you charge and I find often enough I'm charged more often than not. Or warpath is not needed to begin with vs target I get to charge.

So I'm considering that with 2 weirdboys both have da jump. Gives more flexibility on who is target(especially as I rarely have room to deploy in one bulk. Terrain makes for roadblocks that way) and if one dies(with ork peril rule not that uncommon and if you have 2 wounds on weirdboy its dangerous to cast as perils=likely dead=lots of wounds around and failed casting so intact backup is handy.

Don't see why he should merge KMK's to one squad. He's likely not getting +1 anyway and having them separate gives flexibility in deployment.

Guess kommandos and stormboyz are for objective grabbing.

I agree, getting more useful units on the table will outweigh those extra CP.

All those units are pretty good. The problem is more woth the amount of units. You will go first less often and that's a serious drawback. Though, scoring becomes easier. Kommandoes and stormboyz are great at it.

Even if you replace stormboyz(which aren't even useless)&kommandos and combine KMK's to one unit(which limits deployment a lot making them easier to take out and even harming LOS so you might not be able to shoot at targets you want at all) you would be looking at over a dozen drops. +1 would be hardly quaranteed anyway.

Orks without transports I would not count on getting +1 anyway so I would concentrate on getting army that's good without that +1.

 Blackie wrote:
Why the brigade? We don't have stratagems or D6 damage weapons, there's no need of that many CPs.

I prefer giving up some useless CPs and give pks to the nobz since in units of 30 dudes with warpath, ghaz and the banner those klaws can do something and definitely worth 13 points. The min squad of boyz are ok with bare bones nobz instead.

I'd cut the min units of stormboyz, which I never liked. Alternatively I'd merge the KMKs into a single squad, or maybe two and all the stormboyz into a single squad as well.

If I get warpath and ghaz bonus and daisy chain back to the Banner Nob then a PK armed Nob will get 6 attacks (if his unit is over 20) he will get 4 hits and against a T7 vehicle he will get about 3 wounds. Armor save will stop 1 so 2 go through for D3 damage so 4 dmg on average. In my opinion that isn't worth 13pts, especially when so much has to happen to even get to that level of usefulness.

I am torn on the stormboyz myself, but I needed them to fill out the brigade detachment. I am taking a brigade btw because I tend to use A LOT of CP every turn. a single reroll per phase is 3 spent a turn. Using the Morale and stealing initiative strat is very useful and if I have that many CP I don't have to worry about picking and choosing my moments, I can take all of them.

I agree, getting more useful units on the table will outweigh those extra CP.

What more useful units? Boyz are literally the best we have and taking 2 battalions instead of a brigade wouldn't change that. The only "Useful" unit i don't have is tankbustas and that is because I refuse to take a trukk when I am trying to spam T4. Taking a trukk or a wagon will just give my opponent a nice juicy target for his heavy weapons. Conversely I could take less CC bonus models (Ghaz and Banner Nob) and take a cheap warboss and then use the saved 200ish pts to buy more stormboyz/kommandos but I am trying to limit my model count because of time constraints.

I would say that having the PK's are worth it, because it is still capable of dealing damage against a heavier target. Theoretically it is possible to have volume of attacks damage something heavier but realistically most of the hits will just bounce. That might only be 4 points of damage, but it is 4 points twice a turn, on your turn and his. If you mob up 2 squads and have 2 pk's in one squad, that's 16 points per turn.

I see your point about not taking the Trukk, but doesn't that leave your KMKs to take the full power of any AT? With no pks, your KMKs are going to be your only AT, but they will disappear fast.

SemperMortis wrote:


If I get warpath and ghaz bonus and daisy chain back to the Banner Nob then a PK armed Nob will get 6 attacks (if his unit is over 20) he will get 4 hits and against a T7 vehicle he will get about 3 wounds. Armor save will stop 1 so 2 go through for D3 damage so 4 dmg on average. In my opinion that isn't worth 13pts, especially when so much has to happen to even get to that level of usefulness.

Not sure about tournaments since I don't play 3 turns games but pks are a decent anti tank option. That 4 wounds caused on average must be multiplied since a nob in a 30 man squad can do his attacks more than a single time in a game and there are 4+ of them usually.

Sure replacing them with more KMKs is a more efficient option but who the hell owns tons of KMK? I have 6, which IMHO are already a lot but I always field all of them and still need the pks. With their current price and stats even 10-15 would be amazing but I don't know how many ork players can field such an artillery spam. And KMKs evaporate in a few turns if there are no vehicles in the list. Against lists that are heavy on anti tank I tipycally lose all my artillery within turn 2 if I play footsloggers.

The combination of some KMKs, smite and pks is the best anti tank we have since rokkits have extremely expensive platmforms. But again, I don't play 3 turns games and if an army that is designed basically on tying things up for three turns works well for you I wouldn't suggest changing anything since I have no real experience with that kind of games. I mean games in which tarpitting stuff isn't part of the strategy but the entire strategy.

Shrapnelbait wrote:
I would say that having the PK's are worth it, because it is still capable of dealing damage against a heavier target. Theoretically it is possible to have volume of attacks damage something heavier but realistically most of the hits will just bounce. That might only be 4 points of damage, but it is 4 points twice a turn, on your turn and his. If you mob up 2 squads and have 2 pk's in one squad, that's 16 points per turn.

I see your point about not taking the Trukk, but doesn't that leave your KMKs to take the full power of any AT? With no pks, your KMKs are going to be your only AT, but they will disappear fast.

T7 3+ save(btw above math said 3 wounds and 1 is bounced off. What T7 2+ guys guy is meeting? Anywya average for fist will be 4.44

Anyway ghaz+warpath basic boyz with nob banner will then cause 13 wounds.

Though good arqument against that is space. It's hard to cram that many models against that T7 guy in practice. But Even against T8 if you can get that's almost 7 wounds from choppa guys.

Big choppas can also be handy. D2 is helpful with W2/T4 targets and no -1 to hit is always nice. Plus cheaper.