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Not really a tactica question but how do you guys customize your Shield Captains in order to make them stand out a bit more? I'm wanting to add Trajann to my army but I want to do him in a more dynamic pose, only problem is there aren't really any dynamic Custodes models to use as the base for a conversion. Any thoughts?

(In terms of power level of Custodes for 9th ed btw, all I can tell you is that Custodes are utterly broken in Crusades)

 mrhappyface wrote:
Not really a tactica question but how do you guys customize your Shield Captains in order to make them stand out a bit more? I'm wanting to add Trajann to my army but I want to do him in a more dynamic pose, only problem is there aren't really any dynamic Custodes models to use as the base for a conversion. Any thoughts?

(In terms of power level of Custodes for 9th ed btw, all I can tell you is that Custodes are utterly broken in Crusades)

For my Captains on jetbikes, one of them is on a Forgeworld Custodes jetbike converted to have a hurricane bolter (just 6 bolters cut and glued into the center slot) and the other is one a jetbike made by Scibor. I've seen people Convert a ForgeWorld terminator into an Allarus for their terminator Captain. For regular plain-Jane foot captain? That's a bit harder. There is that resin one that has the really funky spear.

Super expensive, but you could use Constantin Valdor if you wanted something really spectacular.

yukishiro1 wrote:
SoS counter anything that isn't targeted MWs. Infernal Gateway is not targeted MWs, it targets the closest model, just like smite. It splashes 3" from the model - not the unit, you were wrong on the "intricacies" there again BTW but you'd have to be pretty silly to let it splash onto something you don't want it to.

Your Custodes. Everything is something you don't want it to.

It's also only 12" range when cast by the LoC, so by definition if they're casting it on your SoS, you're within the bubble to deny it on a 3+ and debuff the casting, so again, you're pretty happy with that.

See, this is where your lack of experience fighting this is showing. The LoC has a 12" Fly Move + 1D6" advance. With the spell range, that gives him an average of 30" to position himself in a way outside the effect of the SoS. You're going to have an extremely hard time blocking that kind of foot print with the 1 unit you mentioned earlier or even with 2 units.

And you don't want to waste your 3+ deny on this. You want to save that for when Magnus is, powerbombing you with a unique super smite, if you can position yourself accordingly (as he has a 42" average threat range with that) or trying to shut down Warp Time if you can position for that (but you're gonna have to advance far and fast).

SoS are area denial against a psychic MW list, and they're very useful for that. It allows you to channel where your opponent's big models can go and still be able to smite.

Again, I'm telling you three things:

1. The list doesn't really mind not smiting for a round or two.
2. If you only take 1-2 SoS units the Chaos player will literally not care and avoid them. They have the Move+Advance+Range to make the SoS not the closest unit if they don't want it to be.
3. If you do take hordes of them and ball them up to make a big null effect, you will cripple yourself on primary but being confined to a tight radius or, if you put the SoS on the front, like if you wanted to absorb Smite (assuming you were in a great setup where they can't just go around you), Morty will clean it up T1 and you're back to 4 rounds of pain.

The object isn't to stop them from smiting anything, it's to force them to make the choice between being where they would otherwise want to be and having their smites and potentially other powers soaked or strat denied by the SoS.

As I said, they have the move and the range to avoid being tied up in the SoS auras unless you ball your army far, far too much. In which case it's no longer them not being where they want to be: it's you.

Moreover, the list is fairly easy to pilot on positioning. It shows you've never really tried to bring down a Bird in this setup. A T7 3++/6+++ (that heals an additional damage every time it makes the 6+++) monster doesn't go down easy. Some versions stack -1 damage on it too. As a FYI, even without any damage reduction, it would take, on average, approximately 9 Aquilons WITH Slayers of Nightmares AND Trajann's aura to kill the bird in melee.

And that's assuming you can divert fire from Morty and/or catch the thing as it is quite mobile.

The - to cast isn't the important part of the unit (though if they actually ignore the unit and take the penalty over and over it's actually a lot more effective than you give it credit for at -1), the important parts are the smite soak and the 3+ deny strat w/in 18".

I am levelling with you here from practical experience. Soaking Smite damage is not going to save you. It is not a critical portion of this. That said, you're almost never going to have the things you want to be blocking in range of SoS to block it, be it with aura or strat, because their maneuverability so exceeds yours (unless, as I've said, you turtle so hard you're surrendering primary).

The dumbest possible thing you could do with SoS against a Magnus and Morty list is just deploy them up in a line in front

Congratulations, you are now losing whatever you put in front of them to MW's. They have to be part of the front to even have a chance of being in range of anything.

(well, besides clustering them to try to get a -2 or more, that'd be even dumber I guess).

If upfront and not clustered, they'll just be ignored.

That list isn't going to be casting MWs at you much on T1 anyway, certainly not if they're going first.

Might want to re-think that. The average threat range on the Bird is somewhere between 28"-34" depending on the spell. On Magnus it's 36"-42". Morty's assault threat range average is 31". Yes, they can reach out and hurt you quite a bit T1 unless you're way back. In which case the Chaos list already has what it wants: board control.

What you want to do is figure out where your opponent is going to want to send his big models, and put the SoS in a place (our of LOS if they have shooting, though that list doesn't so it doesn't even matter) where they can come out and block smites and threaten with the 3+ deny AFTER your opponent's models move.

This is the inexperience again. Do you see the Nurgling spam? The big guys go behind the now standard WTC blocking terrain (which is large enough to hide the entirety of these huge models). Fast and long range guys like Magnus sit more in the open but so far back you can't really touch them 90% of what's available to our army. The big guys don't want to move. The Nurglings/Beasts of Nurgle/Pink-Horror blob (pick your poison) score the points. The big nasties just want to lie fairly close to the Chaos players own DZ and wait for you to come out. You hide SoS out of line of sight? Fine, they can't absorb spells anymore and anything that is sticking out gets pummeled from outside their 18". You hide your whole army? They're happy to hide and just wait too. We have to be the aggressor here and the reason for that comes down to secondaries.

The Chaos list frequently runs:

WWSWF
Raise the Banners/Engage (depending on matchup)
Mission Secondary/Scramblers

Engage is quite easy with the Nurglings. They'll get 10-15 on that no problem against most armies. When it's dangerous for them, they'll take Raise the Banners (especially on 6 objective maps). Just holding their 3 makes a 15 there.
WWSWF is the Bird, Morty and Magnus. Have fun knocking those points off if you're hiding.
On certain missions, it's another easy 15. Vital Intelligence (Data Intercept), Battle Lines (Vital Ground) is an easy 10, the Scouring (Strategic Scan) is an easy 10 and reasonable 15, Sweep and Clear (Direct Assault) is an easy 15 and Priority Target (Priority Target) is an easy 15. When it's going to be tough, Scramblers.

Note the theme on these objectives? The Chaos list doesn't have to play with you. In fact, it doesn't want to play with you. It wants to sit comfortably back and play Sim City. If you're hiding your SoS and waiting for the psykers to go somewhere, you will wait forever and lose. You've got to be the aggressor in this matchup.

The thing about that list is that their big models really can't afford to position to avoid your SoS because they need to be where they need to be to do their stuff, so you're giving them a bad choice between just sucking up the soaking and the 3+ deny or making a big mistake by moving somewhere ineffective to avoid it.

Again, this is just wrong. The only objective the big things have is punishing you if you come out into the open. The Chaos player just takes the W if you do what you propose. He already forced a hard choice on you: come out of your safe zone or surrender large volumes of VP.

Unfortunately we have no real counter. Grind them down? If we come out to fight we'll take the heavier beating. WWSWF on Telemons? It's easier for the Chaos player to wait until T5 and bum rush the Telemons with its huge maneuverability than it is for us to try and T5 burst down these monsters. We can score Banners and some of the mission secondaries as easily as them, but we don't have anything to fill the WWSWF hole or the primary deficit.

cuda1179 wrote:For my Captains on jetbikes, one of them is on a Forgeworld Custodes jetbike converted to have a hurricane bolter (just 6 bolters cut and glued into the center slot) and the other is one a jetbike made by Scibor. I've seen people Convert a ForgeWorld terminator into an Allarus for their terminator Captain. For regular plain-Jane foot captain? That's a bit harder. There is that resin one that has the really funky spear.

My bike Captains have been easier to convert since the base model is really nice. Probably gonna upset some people but my Custodes army is themed as like a chaos imitation of the Custodes, so everything has flames, skulls, spikes, etc.
The FW captain is an option but again, he's just kind of standing there.

yukishiro1 wrote:Super expensive, but you could use Constantin Valdor if you wanted something really spectacular.

Valdor is probably the most dynamic of the Custodes models (not saying much) but it's a lot of money to hack away at all his detail during his conversion.

Audustum wrote:

When it's dangerous for them, they'll take Raise the Banners (especially on 6 objective maps). Just holding their 3 makes a 15 there.

Nurglings can't raise banners, that is a another basic mistake about how the work game works (and yes, you obviously did think they could, because if you didn't what you wrote makes no sense re: your claim about being able to get 15 points by raising on three objectives). That list would not typically take banners, only two fragile units in the whole army can do it so it's a very risky choice against the vast majority of lists. It is impossible for that list to get 15 points on banners by raising on three objectives, as it can only possibly raise twice in the first turn. To get 15 they'd need to raise and score banners on 4 objectives on at least one turn. (Though that list you posted seems weird to me, it comes out to 1956 according to battlescribe which is a strange number of points to be leaving on the table; if it drops the sword or aegis it could take a third squad of furies).

This is like the third time you've made "points" based on misunderstanding of the rules, while ironically repeatedly saying I'm the one who doesn't understand the "intricacies" and lack "experience."

It's not worth continuing this discussion. It's no wonder you're getting rolled, you're playing based on a made-up set of rules.

yukishiro1 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

When it's dangerous for them, they'll take Raise the Banners (especially on 6 objective maps). Just holding their 3 makes a 15 there.

Nurglings can't raise banners, that is a another basic mistake about how the work game works (and yes, you obviously did think they could, because if you didn't what you wrote makes no sense re: your claim about being able to get 15 points by raising on three objectives).

No, no I didn't say or think that. The winged demons raise banners. That's literally their purpose in the list (that and deploy scramblers). A unit can raid multiple banners, yes?

Predicting your next mistake, yes, it's fully conceivable he gets a turn of 4 banners to make up for only raising 2 T1.

That list would not typically take banners, only two fragile units in the whole army can do it so it's a very risky choice against the vast majority of lists.

No, it's not. Only against indirect fire lists, which is when you opt for something else (and really just AdMech and DG are fielding those in the meta currently

Sorry, no. You can't on the one hand make things personal by sniping about your opponent not understanding "intricacies" and "lacking experience" and then make repeated mistakes yourself about how rules work. If you start out by claiming your own superior understanding you have to actually demonstrate it; when you show the opposite by repeatedly making mistakes about the rules, all you show is you aren't worth interacting with. Three straight-up mistakes about the rules (you can't sub contemptors for the KoS and have a legal list, infernal gateway splashes from the model, not the unit, and you can't score 15 points with that list by raising on only three objectives) is my limit for taking someone who claims to be superior seriously. You've used up your mistakes. I don't want to continue a discussion that is turning unpleasant so this will be my last response.

But just a friendly FYI for your future discussions with other posters who are more willing to entertain your attitude, TJ Lannigan is now a confirmed (and banned) cheater, so appealing to his authority is probably even less of a winning argument than an appeal to authority generally.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Sorry, no. You can't on the one hand make things personal by sniping about your opponent not understanding "intricacies" and "lacking experience" and then make repeated mistakes yourself about how rules work. If you start out by claiming your own superior understanding you have to actually demonstrate it;

Recognizing that you aren't quite an expert on this topic is no slight. My offer to explain it to you more was made sincerely. If you wish to learn feel free to drop me a line.

when you show the opposite by repeatedly making mistakes about the rules, all you show is you aren't worth interacting with.

My posts speak for themselves. I have offered dyou correction where you made mistakes.

Indeed, I would note that when I made an extensive breakdown of scoring, piloting and issues with the list and the deep flaws in your positioning argument, they went completely unanswered.

You've used up your mistakes. I don't want to continue a discussion that is turning unpleasant so this will be my last response.

I only detect unpleasantness from one side but if you wish to step out it's your perogative. I don't offer advice in this thread to force anyone to do anything, only to help them if they want help.

But just a friendly FYI for your future discussions with other posters who are more willing to entertain your attitude, TJ Lannigan is now a confirmed (and banned) cheater, so appealing to his authority is probably even less of a winning argument than an appeal to authority generally.

A bit incorrect. He was given a 30 day suspension from the NE circuit, lost prizes and awards for the NE circuit and forefited ITC points for this year. There are no allegations that when he was listed as top Chaos (2020) there was any foul play (you can't include his ranking in this season, even before suspension, because the season was not over). Indeed, he was a paid for and contracted member of Art of War and competed against some strong players who would likely recognize cheating.

Moreover, the style of the list has become a sensation since then (as I have alluded to with variants). It is a meta list you should expect to see and prepare for if making a TAC list for tournament play.

 mrhappyface wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:Super expensive, but you could use Constantin Valdor if you wanted something really spectacular.

Valdor is probably the most dynamic of the Custodes models (not saying much) but it's a lot of money to hack away at all his detail during his conversion.

Oh for sure it's not a good use of money. I was just throwing it out there in case you weren't aware of it - lots of people who play 40k don't know about all the special HH models FW puts out.

It's again massively expensive, but if you want someone dynamically posed who would be good for a chaos-y conversion, Angron might be an option too - he has the dynamic pose, and his armor already looks a bit like a chaos-y Custode even without any conversion. The weapons are probably the only thing that need replacing. Hard to say it's worth $100 though...

I think I want to try and run a 3x5 of bolter sisters with a invuln flag, and let them camp an objective. They won't be HARD to move, but it will take dedicated shooting. I wanna run them up the middle, and if I need to I can teleport homer in some heavier support on the flag (See Terminators) My biggest concern is who or how do I take out his DP's with wings. He has 3 in his list, and I don't have that sorta firepower, and I feel like ignoring them is a bad idea.

I would love to see Talons of the E get +1 attacks and S on the charge, making spears viable, and axes wound on 3s against almost everything. I also think we need Auto-transhuman and Bolter discipline.

This is a total pipedream but: Give an ability to Wardens and Terminators that allow them to regenerate wounds. Not really a FnP, but on a 4+ regain x wounds after the fight phase.

What i want to see in the new book is:

Prosecutors (bolter girls) in the troop slot.

+1 attack across the board.

Wardens go up to a 5+++

Aquillons go up to 80pts apiece and be Wardens in terminator armor.

Permanent Arcane genetic alchemy and
Loose the current Custodes trait of +1 invun.

Actual shield host traits and better banner relics.

Vigilators and Witchseekers gain access to the SoS transport.

Pallas gravs go back to 1-3 per slot (like in 30k).

A stratagem cost rebalance (all multi-CP strats drop by 1 unless in a unit bigger than 5).

Permanent superior Fire patterns with our Master crafted Bolters (still have to pay for the venetari and aquillons).

Access to the -2 charge strat for our tanks again along with a buff to 2 damage for the Bolt cannons.

Give our Land Raider a Multi-Melta for no points increase.

Give the Ares, Orion, and Coronus a points decrease (not sure how much but 50pts is fair).

Why couldn't Vigilators and Witchseekers go in the Null Rhino now? I can't see anything in the keywords that prevents it, it just says SoS infantry? Not that you'd take them either way, though.

Or do you mean the awesome flying thing from HH? I'd love to see that in 40k, it's one of the coolest models they've ever made.

Yeah, Vigilators can use Rhinos, it's pretty much Goonhammer's favorite thing to charge up the board with loaded up Vigirhinos.

Honestly, I think we're mostly fine. I'd probably decrease a few strat costs, make most weapons flat 2, axes flat 3, +1W and +1A across the board , Trajann up to 9W, a HQ for the SoS and giving Wardens a 5+++ and the ability to Deny the Witch as if they were a psyker.

Unneeded but would be awesome would be to get Hetaeron Guard, SoS as troops, Jetbike SoS and Oblivion Knights.

Edit: Right, ideally we'd get some Tribunes for our lieutenant aura too.

Yeah Yuki, im talking about the 30k SoS transport. Why they didnt port it over to 40k is a mystery to me. No reason not too in the upcoming book.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Yeah Yuki, im talking about the 30k SoS transport. Why they didnt port it over to 40k is a mystery to me. No reason not too in the upcoming book.

The Kharon Pattern Aquisitor is such an interesting model, I also never understood why it never got 40k rules. That thing always reminded me of the big sandworms from dune, which basically means it's awsome by default.
There is also an upgrade sprue from FW for a double bolt pistol loadout for SoS, which is kinda badass. I'm not sure that loadout would bring us any benefit over prosecutors, but I still want rules for it in 40k.

Regarding weapon updates:
I thought about this a lot and I don't think just making the guardian spears better is going to help our spear custodian guard. I do not think people will take them, because survivability is just key in 9th, so shield guard will always have an advantage there.

What I'd like to see are rules that encourage mixing shields and spears: let's assume for a sec we lose our 3+ invulns, so shields instead get an ability where you can't reroll hits against them and spears get an ability where the squad is -1 to wound (-1 to hit is also an option, but a really weak one) in combat. That way mixing squads would be actually worth considering.
Guardian spears, like manreapers on deathshroud, also need to have 2 profiles. A piercing and a sweeping profile. S+2 AP-3 D2 on piercing and S user AP-2 D1 with double attacks on sweeping.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
SoS arent bad except that they take up an elite slot, which we already have a shortage of in anything but a battalion.

If your running a battalion, sure toss some in, but they do not survive more than 1 turn to do what you took them for (unless your taking 2 prosecutor squads to hold objectives).

Yes, if you know your fighting a psycher heavy army, you can take Aquillon shield to bodyguard a squad of them, but then they still arent up front where they need to be, and the shield host is crap on all other fronts.


Mortal wounds are simply too prevelent nowadays to cost Custodes appropriately against armies that dont dish out mortal wounds. This is a problem competitively, because to balance custodes against other armies we are too weak at tournaments, and to balance us for tournaments, we are too strong for casual play.

I honestly dont know how to fix it.

I play Custodes at tournaments though, so I obviously want to be on the stronger end.

I fear how prevalent mortal wounds are getting. It's one of the biggest issues in AoS, and widespread mortal wounds are inevitably a bad mechanic that essentially flattens the game to only a handful of relevant unit types.

stratigo wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
SoS arent bad except that they take up an elite slot, which we already have a shortage of in anything but a battalion.

If your running a battalion, sure toss some in, but they do not survive more than 1 turn to do what you took them for (unless your taking 2 prosecutor squads to hold objectives).

Yes, if you know your fighting a psycher heavy army, you can take Aquillon shield to bodyguard a squad of them, but then they still arent up front where they need to be, and the shield host is crap on all other fronts.


Mortal wounds are simply too prevelent nowadays to cost Custodes appropriately against armies that dont dish out mortal wounds. This is a problem competitively, because to balance custodes against other armies we are too weak at tournaments, and to balance us for tournaments, we are too strong for casual play.

I honestly dont know how to fix it.

I play Custodes at tournaments though, so I obviously want to be on the stronger end.

I fear how prevalent mortal wounds are getting. It's one of the biggest issues in AoS, and widespread mortal wounds are inevitably a bad mechanic that essentially flattens the game to only a handful of relevant unit types.

I've heard this complaint about AoS before. Do we know how Stormcasts handle it (possibly our closest analogue, I don't know AoS that well)?

Stormcast aren't good competitively, aren't particularly elite, and the better builds are ranged alpha strike builds anyway so it doesn't really matter.

AOS has no toughness and no invuln saves (ok, virtually no invuln saves) so MWs are less of a problem there because the math doesn't skew as bad in the first place. The relevant metric there is points per wound, and stormcast do ok on that; it's stuff like LRL that has the really bad point to wound ratios, and they mainly get around it by having roided-up FNP and spell shrug auras (as well as denies on almost every single unit).

The easy way to deal with MW for custodes would just be an army-wide ignore MWs on a 5+ like black templars get. 4+ is probably too much - it should still be one of the more efficient ways to kill them, just not as efficient as it is current - and the 6+ they have right now only for psychic is too little.

Guys, how would we balance Slam Custodes Captains? Give the jetpack custodes to a SC and let me be happy!

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Guys, how would we balance Slam Custodes Captains? Give the jetpack custodes to a SC and let me be happy!

I'm O.K. with this

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Guys, how would we balance Slam Custodes Captains? Give the jetpack custodes to a SC and let me be happy!

I'm O.K. with this

I could see this happen, though I think it's unlikely. The FW custodes range is basically done (except for hetaeron guard) and I don't think we'll see the FW models be released in plastic, especially considering how well our dreadnoughts are selling right now.

What I can see happening is that we maybe, maybe get one character with a venatari-esque jumppack in plastic alongside our codex release.
If we even get a new model release with our new codex I believe the chances for that release being a whole unit or even multiple units is extremely low (I'd love to be wrong on this one). If we get anything I think it will be a singular character at best, so maybe they'll give us a one with jumppack.
What I'd personally like to see is an eyes of the emperor model. A singular operative that maybe can disrupt opponents CP use and/or give us CP, maybe similar to a tallyman. Could also have an ability to turn off obsec.

Yeah I think an Eyes of the Emperor HQ choice, a SoS HQ choice, and putting the SoS 30k transport into 40k are the obvious things. Maybe a Lieutenant style HQ choice too. Right now it feels awkward that you are essentially pushed by the detachment system to take two shield captains (whether named or not) in every pure custodes list.

I really just need to know how GW plans on keeping up with the power creep when it gets to us. We can't suddenly become S/T:6. Even another wound wouldn't really fix the issues with us. It's either damage, which might have to be pretty insane, in which case we would be broken, or it's just flat out survivability, in which case our games become sit on OBJectives and don't die, which I feel is boring. I don't want to get off into wishlisting, but I feel several people have stated numerous times of making out spears and axes a multi-profile weapon, and I think that's a good direction. I didn't before, but now that everyone has some sort of it, I say why not? Then how do we deal with MW spam. We have to be able to take Sisters in a more meaningful capacity. By which I mean their survivability. Give them an invuln when within 6" of a Custodes SC?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I really just need to know how GW plans on keeping up with the power creep when it gets to us. We can't suddenly become S/T:6. Even another wound wouldn't really fix the issues with us. It's either damage, which might have to be pretty insane, in which case we would be broken, or it's just flat out survivability, in which case our games become sit on OBJectives and don't die, which I feel is boring. I don't want to get off into wishlisting, but I feel several people have stated numerous times of making out spears and axes a multi-profile weapon, and I think that's a good direction. I didn't before, but now that everyone has some sort of it, I say why not? Then how do we deal with MW spam. We have to be able to take Sisters in a more meaningful capacity. By which I mean their survivability. Give them an invuln when within 6" of a Custodes SC?

We talked about this fezzik, rather extensively and in multiple threads even. We won't be S/T 6 as you said quite correctly, but our troops going to 4wounds and terminators/bikes going to 5wound would actually be big. It makes a lot of weapons less efficient against as and is also an increase in general survivability against masses small arms fire.

Mortal wounds is an issue, I'm not sure how to fix it, a 5+++ against any mortal wound just might be too good...but I'm not sure. Even if we only get a 6+++ against mortals, it has to be in all phases, not only the psychic phase. On the other hand I fell it has to be said that mortal wounds being a counter to custodes is not by itself a bad thing. We can't be amazing against everything, but it must not be oppressive against us, so if the damage and mortal wound creep continues and most armies can dish out a bunch of mortal wounds each turn, then imo a general 5+++ against mortals for our guys is warranted.

I advocated for multiple weapon profiles for a long time, but I am not very optimistic, that we will actually get them. It would be a very nice design space though, to show that our guys are martial paragons.

And yeah, sisters need to bring more to the table, I'm not sure an invuln would do the trick, but I'm definitely not against it.....like you said, give them a 5++ when they are within 6" of an adeptus custodes unit or something. Would be a nice rule representation of the talons fighting alongside each other.

Edit: maybe also give custodes a benefit when being within 6" of a sisters unit. Idk, like improving their feelnopain against mortal wounds or something.

Tiberias wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I really just need to know how GW plans on keeping up with the power creep when it gets to us. We can't suddenly become S/T:6. Even another wound wouldn't really fix the issues with us. It's either damage, which might have to be pretty insane, in which case we would be broken, or it's just flat out survivability, in which case our games become sit on OBJectives and don't die, which I feel is boring. I don't want to get off into wishlisting, but I feel several people have stated numerous times of making out spears and axes a multi-profile weapon, and I think that's a good direction. I didn't before, but now that everyone has some sort of it, I say why not? Then how do we deal with MW spam. We have to be able to take Sisters in a more meaningful capacity. By which I mean their survivability. Give them an invuln when within 6" of a Custodes SC?

We talked about this fezzik, rather extensively and in multiple threads even. We won't be S/T 6 as you said quite correctly, but our troops going to 4wounds and terminators/bikes going to 5wound would actually be big. It makes a lot of weapons less efficient against as and is also an increase in general survivability against masses small arms fire.

Mortal wounds is an issue, I'm not sure how to fix it, a 5+++ against any mortal wound just might be too good...but I'm not sure. Even if we only get a 6+++ against mortals, it has to be in all phases, not only the psychic phase. On the other hand I fell it has to be said that mortal wounds being a counter to custodes is not by itself a bad thing. We can't be amazing against everything, but it must not be oppressive against us, so if the damage and mortal wound creep continues and most armies can dish out a bunch of mortal wounds each turn, then imo a general 5+++ against mortals for our guys is warranted.

I advocated for multiple weapon profiles for a long time, but I am not very optimistic, that we will actually get them. It would be a very nice design space though, to show that our guys are martial paragons.

And yeah, sisters need to bring more to the table, I'm not sure an invuln would do the trick, but I'm definitely not against it.....like you said, give them a 5++ when they are within 6" of an adeptus custodes unit or something. Would be a nice rule representation of the talons fighting alongside each other.

Edit: maybe also give custodes a benefit when being within 6" of a sisters unit. Idk, like improving their feelnopain against mortal wounds or something.

The Culexus forces BS to 6 because if its null status. If SoS forced it to 4 of something, that could help them more than an invuln.

That's a pretty cool idea, I'm casting my vote for that one. Give them a strat to force it up to BS 5 and now we're talking

Audustum wrote:

Tiberias wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I really just need to know how GW plans on keeping up with the power creep when it gets to us. We can't suddenly become S/T:6. Even another wound wouldn't really fix the issues with us. It's either damage, which might have to be pretty insane, in which case we would be broken, or it's just flat out survivability, in which case our games become sit on OBJectives and don't die, which I feel is boring. I don't want to get off into wishlisting, but I feel several people have stated numerous times of making out spears and axes a multi-profile weapon, and I think that's a good direction. I didn't before, but now that everyone has some sort of it, I say why not? Then how do we deal with MW spam. We have to be able to take Sisters in a more meaningful capacity. By which I mean their survivability. Give them an invuln when within 6" of a Custodes SC?

We talked about this fezzik, rather extensively and in multiple threads even. We won't be S/T 6 as you said quite correctly, but our troops going to 4wounds and terminators/bikes going to 5wound would actually be big. It makes a lot of weapons less efficient against as and is also an increase in general survivability against masses small arms fire.

Mortal wounds is an issue, I'm not sure how to fix it, a 5+++ against any mortal wound just might be too good...but I'm not sure. Even if we only get a 6+++ against mortals, it has to be in all phases, not only the psychic phase. On the other hand I fell it has to be said that mortal wounds being a counter to custodes is not by itself a bad thing. We can't be amazing against everything, but it must not be oppressive against us, so if the damage and mortal wound creep continues and most armies can dish out a bunch of mortal wounds each turn, then imo a general 5+++ against mortals for our guys is warranted.

I advocated for multiple weapon profiles for a long time, but I am not very optimistic, that we will actually get them. It would be a very nice design space though, to show that our guys are martial paragons.

And yeah, sisters need to bring more to the table, I'm not sure an invuln would do the trick, but I'm definitely not against it.....like you said, give them a 5++ when they are within 6" of an adeptus custodes unit or something. Would be a nice rule representation of the talons fighting alongside each other.

Edit: maybe also give custodes a benefit when being within 6" of a sisters unit. Idk, like improving their feelnopain against mortal wounds or something.

The Culexus forces BS to 6 because if its null status. If SoS forced it to 4 of something, that could help them more than an invuln.

You sir, deserve an Exhalt. That is a capital idea. Capital! Now if only GW can avoid making our shields 15 points, and nerfing the Telemon back up to the cost of a baneblade, I will gladly take that and go to the disco.

So I caved, because I am weak and my Valdor model has arrived. Just need to find where the hell I put the Trajann model I have and then I can get to kitbashing