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Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




As far as I remember, no chance to get a relic with Ghazkgull, he comes with everything in the pack

Orks 2000p 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

Named characters come with their own gubbinz, they dont deny generics from getting anything.

Ghaz basically has a Killa Klaw but its not a Killa Klaw. You can still have a generic boss with one.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
Made in gb
Squishy Squig




United Kingdom

Kebabcito wrote:
 kingbbobb wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
T1nk4bell wrote:
With cp reroll flash gitz shoot twice is 30,555556% exactly

It feels less than this. The odds are too low for me to want to run the risk (and build a list around it).


Maths is wrong chance wise it is 1/6 =16.66%=0.1666
with the reroll it is (1/6+1/6)=2/12=1/6 =16.66%=0.1666

both rolls are independent of each other and don't affect each other.

the probability of success doesn't change with the reroll - you just get an extra opportunity at success at the same rate/chance/probability which is 1/6=16.666%

The probablity before rolling the dice both times, is 0.3055 of success, because you have 2 chances.

The probablility of success after throwing the first dice failing and going to throw the second dice is 0.166

1/6 + 1/6 is not 1/36 bro, that would be 1/6*1/6, is 2/6 = 1/3, and that's not the way it is calculated because, in case you would throw the dice 6 times, you would have a 100% chance, and that's not true.

The 30.55% comes from the 1/6 + 5/6*1/6, the chance of succes at the first time (1/6) + the chance of succes of the second time (5/6 of fails * 1/6 of success)

The problem here is probability not reflect real cases, only the mathematical point of view, because when you throw the dice and fail, you still didn't waste CP, and the moment you gonna waste the CP, the chance is only 16%, being orkz an army very CP dependant, so wasting a CP in a 16.6% chance of shooting again is not really worth it


fair enough it's early for me this morning, just testing you lol. it is 30.5555555%

(1/6)x((5/6)x(1/6))=30.555%


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kebabcito wrote:
As far as I remember, no chance to get a relic with Ghazkgull, he comes with everything in the pack


it says this under shiny gubbinz section

"If your army is led by an ORK Warlord, then before the battle you may give one of the following Shiny Gubbinz to an ORK CHARACTER. Named characters such as Ghazghkull Thraka cannot be given any of the following Shiny Gubbinz – they have their own unique wargear."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/07 14:28:50


SMASH  
   
Made in es
Fresh-Faced New User




In case someone wants to better understand the reasoning behind the 30.55%, its is the cumulative density function of the binomial distribution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_distribution#Cumulative_distribution_function) for i = 1, k = 2, n = 2.

2 tries, maximum of 2 successes with at least 1.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/07 15:24:16


 
   
Made in gb
Squishy Squig




United Kingdom

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Hey guys, I know it’s probably a bad list but, I was wandering if I could get some opinions on how this list would fair in competent-casual sort of games. I don’t play tournaments and such but we tend to have competent lists.

Spoiler:

(Battalion)
HQ
- Ghazghkull
- Big Mek w/ KFF
TROOP
- 30x Boyz 10x Shootas, 19x Choppas, Boss w/ 2x Choppas (Skarboyz)
- 30x Boyz 10x Shootas, 10x Choppas, Boss w/ 2x Choppas (Skarboyz)
- 10x Grots
- 10x Grots
ELITE
- 5x Meganobz w/ Klaws and Kustom Shootas
- 10x Nobz w/ Big Coppas and Choppas

(Spearhead)
HQ
- Big Mek w/ SSAG
HEAVY SUPPORT
- Bonebreaka
- Bonebreaka
- 2x Deff Dreads w/ 2x Klaws, 2x Saws
- 3x Mek Gunz w/ KMK


smasha guns are generally better than kmk's
smasha is 33pts(with 2 pts increase in CA2019 :( )
kmk is 60 pts

for a similar points cost you can bring 2 smasha for each KMK meaning each d6 Heavy becomes 2xd3 Heavy with smahsas

2xd3 Heavy is better than 1xd6 Heavy because the minimum result from 2xd3 is 2 but the minum from 1d6 is 1

you also get extra W6 T5 models on the board

SMASH  
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




kingbbobb wrote:

2xd3 Heavy is better than 1xd6 Heavy because the minimum result from 2xd3 is 2 but the minum from 1d6 is 1


2d3 is kind of weird.

So obviously flooring yourself to 2 is better than 1.
But the chance of getting the maximum number of shots is 50% harder. ( chance of getting 6 shots on 2d3 is 1/9 vs 1/6 on a d6)

Basically it tends to more rolls in the middle of the distribution, which is overall a good thing.
   
Made in ca
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot





Smasha also have longer range and more AP, and while the wounding can be less consistent, it also cant hurt itself like a KMK can.

My milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard and they're like, hurr darry darr.


My suggestion to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy, if you have a bad wife you'll become a philosopher. 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

Wounding high toughness is the ONLY benefit KMK has over Smasha, and its a rather small one.
Average 2D6 is 7 and against T7/T8 that means the Smasha has average odds of wounding while the KMK wounds T7 on 3s.

Very slight benefit, but i massively prefer multipel D3 shots over a D6, extra range on a Heavy platform means it doesnt move as much (if at all), extra wounds for the 2nd smasha (that cant spill over as theyre separate units), and no Gets Hot problems.

KMK has no business being that expensive. I was expecting it to drop to at least Traktor levels, but of course all that really changed is smasha went up 2pts...i dont see that affecting anything

As i mentioned several pages ago it technically is priced about right, its 6x KMBs basically with slightly better range. But since its random shots and on a platform that loses kulture perks....its actually overpriced. Random shot weapons shouldnt be priced for maximum shot potential and i swear the Ork weapons are (i dont feel like my admech random shots or knight random shots are priced expecting max RoF at all)

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




Nah that's not true.
Wounding with smasha is better than average 7.
You will wound a toughness 7 model with 21/36 chance that's about 58 percent. (8% percent better than a str 7 weapon.
A t8 Modell = 42%

A kmk wounds T7 on = 66,6%
Vs t8 = 50
But kmk has lower shoots

And don't forgot dakka dakka dakka.
Two smasha with 2d3 shots + dakka dakka dakka =4,666 shots average.
One kmk is average 4,0x gaks with dakka dakka dakka


And smasha has mir range and smasha has more ap

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/07 16:13:21


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Yup. I dunno what they were thinking with smash guns. They are clearly the best and cheapest to boot.

Tractors get an honourable mention for auto hitting, though. And can technically move and shoot with zero penalty.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






So, what changed with the new ca?
   
Made in gb
Squishy Squig




United Kingdom

 koooaei wrote:
So, what changed with the new ca?


pts lowered for speed freak buggies, deffkoptas, Warbike Nobz, Deff Dreads, Flashgitz, Killakan, Stompa, Skorcha Missle, Burna Boyz

Smashagunz increase +2 pts

SMASH  
   
Made in se
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






 kingbbobb wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
So, what changed with the new ca?


pts lowered for speed freak buggies, deffkoptas, Warbike Nobz, Deff Dreads, Flashgitz, Killakan, Stompa, Skorcha Missle, Burna Boyz

Smashagunz increase +2 pts


*Seppuku Time*

 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




From what I saw of the screenshot, big shootas are now 6 too?
   
Made in gb
Squishy Squig




United Kingdom

tulun wrote:
From what I saw of the screenshot, big shootas are now 6 too?


thats not true still 5 pts

SMASH  
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

Smashas are 18pts, Skorcha Missiles are 5pts.
Other than that ALL wargear did not change.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Boyz still 7 pts. Like scions, eh.
   
Made in se
Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna






 koooaei wrote:
Boyz still 7 pts. Like scions, eh.



Sarcasm meter at ?

 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Oh I see why.

It’s 6 point big shoota under Forgeworld section. Why, though?
   
Made in ca
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot





 koooaei wrote:
Boyz still 7 pts. Like scions, eh.


To be fair, the Tempestus Scion Command Squad cost stayed the same at least. Though I am somewhat shocked they dropped so much, so they'll actually be viable CP battery battalion alternatives to taking the usual loyal 32. Barebones they don't do much beyond mid game objective grabbing.

My milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard and they're like, hurr darry darr.


My suggestion to you is to get married, if you have a good wife you'll be happy, if you have a bad wife you'll become a philosopher. 
   
Made in bg
Regular Dakkanaut





Yesterday I had the chance to try a few things.

But before the take-homes, I fielded a warboss on bike from FW. 95 points base. But at this point I am still unsure what datasheet to use with him. When for the index one so the base warboss with PK goes up to 108pts. Is there an official datasheet for the FW warboss on bike?

About the game itself.
- 5xkoptas with tbshoota for 150 point are ACE.
- dread with 2kmb lacks CC. We knew this already but the point drop only helps if massed. Not a fan.
- 2x scrapjets are annoying but kill little.
- flash gitz are an absolute must. Run 6 on a trukk and they killed marines as if there was no tomorrow.

2 doubts.

A) can i deepstrike the koptas turn one? I know something changed with faqs and stuff but the codex is very clear in the description.
B) Showing off allows you to shoot again to the closest unit. What if that unit is in CC? Is the show off then lost?
   
Made in it
Wild Wyrdboy with Minderz




Italy

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

- dread with 2kmb lacks CC. We knew this already but the point drop only helps if massed. Not a fan.


I'm not a fan of shooty dreads either, I'd rather spam koptas or meks if I want cheap KMBs. I only see dreads as full CC units. BTW I haven't seen killa kanz with KMB in the legends pdf, aren't two kanz with KMB better than a dread with 2 KMB? No kultur re-rolls, but BS4+ and two bodies instead of one.

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

- 2x scrapjets are annoying but kill little.


They were certainly overpriced at 110 points but with some kultur re-rolls and in a heavy armored list they could work. How much are they now after CA? A single KMK looks overpriced for many players but it's 60 pts and have very similar damage output than the buggy while just a bit less resilient. Two of them are basically a single scrapjet (before CA) but far superior than the buggy in anything but close combat.

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

- flash gitz are an absolute must. Run 6 on a trukk and they killed marines as if there was no tomorrow.


I agree, 5 or 6 in a trukk with an ammo runt are really effective in the marines meta but still quite good against pretty much any other army while not being a points sink. I played them a lot in this edition as I favor vehicles/walkers/artillery based lists. After CA they're definitely a competitive option unless you go pure green tide maybe.

Orks 7000
Space Wolves 5000
 
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
A) can i deepstrike the koptas turn one? I know something changed with faqs and stuff but the codex is very clear in the description.

Nothing that has not been on the board during deployment can enter the board during turn 1. This is why Da Jump works, but tellyporta doesn't.

B) Showing off allows you to shoot again to the closest unit. What if that unit is in CC? Is the show off then lost?

Yes.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




Why is flash gitz a good option after CA? As far as I remember, there wasn't any chance in them, in Badrukk or in trukks/BW.

Orks 2000p 
   
Made in bg
Regular Dakkanaut





Kebabcito wrote:
Why is flash gitz a good option after CA? As far as I remember, there wasn't any chance in them, in Badrukk or in trukks/BW.


Mostly the meta goes in their favor as primaris start to be the norm, high volume of wounding on 3+ ap -2 damage 2 are marine killers. They also drop 6 pts each.
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





Kebabcito wrote:
Why is flash gitz a good option after CA? As far as I remember, there wasn't any chance in them, in Badrukk or in trukks/BW.


There were a good option before and saw play in tournament-winning lists. Now they went down six points.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




 Jidmah wrote:
Kebabcito wrote:
Why is flash gitz a good option after CA? As far as I remember, there wasn't any chance in them, in Badrukk or in trukks/BW.


There were a good option before and saw play in tournament-winning lists. Now they went down six points.

True, forgot that -6 point drop, thanks

Orks 2000p 
   
Made in gb
Squishy Squig




United Kingdom

tulun wrote:
Oh I see why.

It’s 6 point big shoota under Forgeworld section. Why, though?


oh yeah big shootas on FW models have increased to 6 pts

i can only think it is because FW has BS 4 Tank models that use Big Shootas. Grot Tanks etc

completely stupid to be honest.....

SMASH  
   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





I think it's more likely to be a typo without much thought.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/08 11:03:35


 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

its probably a typo.
You are supposed to use the Codex prices if they exist for things anyway.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
 
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