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cody.d. wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Exactly. This is nice funny discussion but we see abou 5% of the puzzel.

- we dont know the core rules ( say ahllo to engagement range and terrain rules)
- we dont know all the ork rules
- we dont know the point costs. For 100p it is a great Ghazkhul. For 700p it is a nonsence.

Honestly, meta is always somethin different than they show in the previous. Preview is about melee Ghazzy? So the most interesting will be Big Mek with buggies or something like that

Technically we do know the core rules, they are floating about on the net. Imgur has a copy if i recall.

But yeah, until we get those points rules this is all a bit abstract. Ghaz has a wonderful buff for his unit 1+ to hit and wound can turn a lotta damage. But what units can he go with? Meganobz confirmed, but can he let even choppa lads harm the average tank on a 4+?

Unless they get an invul Meganobz my be risky. That cabal ability to turn off armour saves is scarey.

I don't think it'll be as risky as you'd think, sure Tsons can turn off armour saves completely, no one else can (that we know of). A lot of the natural predators of meganobz have been dealt with, AP has dropped across the board that they essentially have an invuln due to their armour save. Power/chainfists are AP2 as are power/relic weapons. Thunderhammers lost a damage, assault doctrine is gone (as in the AP and the chapter specific benefits). Most of the time, things going their way will be AP2 unless you are doing AT weapons into them to dome a nob at a time. We don't have to contend with AP4 melee swings anymore, and a lot of guns either lost an AP or a damage. The only thing that's remained the same is melta weaponary, they've now pivoted from anti tank / everything, to anti elite, but will melta be that common anymore? Or plasma? Ranged weapons over all look balanced between each other representing a choice of what to pick instead of 1 clear best option.

Then if we do get neck snapped in melee by say, 10 scarab occult (which they probably will to make use of Kindred Sorceror on their force weapons, if they keep force weapons on the whole squad) we just fight on death and take them down with us. Other than the questions of squad sizes, cost, can they go in a transport with ghaz and if so how many are coming along for the ride, I'm not seeing an issue with meganob survivability this edition so far. Most of the time they will be getting a 3-4+ save vs what used to give a 6+ or no save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Just played the Alpha for Speed Freeks, it was actually surprisingly good! Obviously a bit barebones gameplay wise at the moment but the core gameplay is fun. I also like how they distinguished the different Ork rigs you can play as and how different combinations work well. Right now I'm a big fan of the Looted Tank and the Grot Mega Tank since they have the most dakka output, though the Deffkilla Wartrike is also quite solid. So far the main underwhelming one is the Shokkjump Dragsta IMO, just because you have to be somewhat accurate with their low rate of fire.

Just tried the game as well, and ironically the SJD is my favorite, and I'm completely crushing the opposition with it. For an alpha, it's a very well done game.

For me the Boomdakka Snazzwagon is the best and my favourite, the thing is probably overtuned because it shreds anything even at range. At peak times games are just full of it on either side. The Grot Mega Tank and Shokk Jump Dragsta look the weakest but once they add more game models and emphasize racing, the sheer speed of the SJD should push it up. The Kustom Boosta Blast is probably my second favourite but it just feels like a Walmart BDSW in every way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
So looking at the GK faction focus, I'm hopeful that Ghaz is actually going to take a substantial points cut. The Grandmaster in Dreadknight is faster, shootier, about as punchy, about as tough (when you consider Ghaz' 2++ through Makari) and gets cheap CP use.

Assuming the Grand Master stays at around the 200ish mark (after buying weapons), we could actually have a fairly cheap supreme leader if they're being pointed based on ability.

I think the Grandmaster will be cheaper than Ghaz by a country mile for some really serious reasons. He isnt a Leader or a Lone Operative and only has his statline and a teleport assault redeploys to keep him safe and as a vehicle he can be targeted in melee with shooting attacks from across the board. Hes also taken a hefty nerf when it comes to his damage output, dropping to BS and WS 3 across the board, loosing an attack on each melee profile (2 swings on the sweep which has also lost str, ap and damage). I reckon Ghaz is gonna be in the same ball park as he is now, with Makari baked in to the cost, 350-370 is where id put Ghaz.

I wouldnt call the DK faster or as punchy too. It has a 8" move and as far as we are aware no advance and charge or innate reroll, Orkz atleast get to once per game advance and charge and also pop the strat on a unit to launch them a further 4", that more than makes up for the extra 3" the grandmaster has and we dont even know how battlewagons will come into the equation, if they have assault ramps or can fit Ghaz and a reasonable amount of MANz. Ghaz is also slightly better in melee now from the get go with 6 attacks base instead of 5, 7 on the Waaagh instead of 6 with auto wounds on 6s to hit. During a Waaagh he also wounds every known toughness in the game on 2s at the trade of 2AP (does it matter when most things he fights has an invuln). On average Ghaz now kills a a T12 2+ save 16 wound unit to the exact wound or 20 wounds to a knight.

He is still a heavy weight in the same field as Abaddon, just without the calibre of army buffs that the warmaster provides. I cant see Ghaz being lower than 300 in 10th, he will always be with some form of bodyguard that he turns into absolute world beaters. The Grand Master is kinda weak overall unless hes fighting a monster or vehicle.

It'll be nice if Cover is easier to obtain, although I did enjoy using the -1 to hit terrain pieces to shield my units moving up field.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
So looking at the GK faction focus, I'm hopeful that Ghaz is actually going to take a substantial points cut. The Grandmaster in Dreadknight is faster, shootier, about as punchy, about as tough (when you consider Ghaz' 2++ through Makari) and gets cheap CP use.

Assuming the Grand Master stays at around the 200ish mark (after buying weapons), we could actually have a fairly cheap supreme leader if they're being pointed based on ability.

Well if Ghaz is that cheap I certainly hope the Warboss is significantly cheaper! Has there been any confirmation if there will be structure rules in the detachment where we are limited in the number of Warbosses we can bring?

Oh and the Speedfreekz game looks like a lot of fun!

I somehow highly doubt that Ghaz will suddenly be 200 points.

Yeah, given what they did in 9th, I feel like they'll try costing things more at the start of the new edition so when they start releasing the codices and supplements, they can start slashing points or jumping up stats to promote changes in the units for when they do marketing in the new books. I don't really mind if they do this, but they better have learned from 9th and avoid any arbitrary base level points that make no sense, like the 5 point minimum that even applied to grots (until they caved and made them 4 ppm). I feel each time they have a chance to make the points more granular they don't go far enough.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
It'll be nice if Cover is easier to obtain, although I did enjoy using the -1 to hit terrain pieces to shield my units moving up field.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
So looking at the GK faction focus, I'm hopeful that Ghaz is actually going to take a substantial points cut. The Grandmaster in Dreadknight is faster, shootier, about as punchy, about as tough (when you consider Ghaz' 2++ through Makari) and gets cheap CP use.

Assuming the Grand Master stays at around the 200ish mark (after buying weapons), we could actually have a fairly cheap supreme leader if they're being pointed based on ability.

Well if Ghaz is that cheap I certainly hope the Warboss is significantly cheaper! Has there been any confirmation if there will be structure rules in the detachment where we are limited in the number of Warbosses we can bring?

Oh and the Speedfreekz game looks like a lot of fun!

Looks like the only restriction is on the rule of 3, your points and on epic heroes. If you want 3 megabosses and 3 footbosses you can, if your feeling wild throw in 3 megameks too haha. You can have an army of nothing but characters, will be good? Nope haha.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, given what they did in 9th, I feel like they'll try costing things more at the start of the new edition so when they start releasing the codices and supplements, they can start slashing points or jumping up stats to promote changes in the units for when they do marketing in the new books. I don't really mind if they do this, but they better have learned from 9th and avoid any arbitrary base level points that make no sense, like the 5 point minimum that even applied to grots (until they caved and made them 4 ppm). I feel each time they have a chance to make the points more granular they don't go far enough.

I agree and I hope points have actually gone up overall (mainly for vehicles, monsters and characters). Somethings should never really got more expensive, like your Grot example and Boyz in my opinion (even if they get a 5+ save). I think everything has gotten too cheap at this stage of 9th and there isnt much granularity between units as they mainly all sit around the same price as each other. An Intercessor is 18pts yet a GK Strike Marine is 20pts who gets a gets a power weapons, deep strike and a psychic phase included in that 2pt package, they defo cant stay that much now they have a 2+ save in the mix too. Id love it if they further increase the gap between horde units, standard infantry (marines shouldnt be the standard) and elite infantry. I remember when you could get nearly 3 Boyz to a Marine and 2 Grots for a Boy, thats gone out of the window and some units just dont feel well represented number wise as they do in the lore and I get that with editions things change, but armies should still keep their core identity on the table top.

 deffrekka wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
It'll be nice if Cover is easier to obtain, although I did enjoy using the -1 to hit terrain pieces to shield my units moving up field.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
So looking at the GK faction focus, I'm hopeful that Ghaz is actually going to take a substantial points cut. The Grandmaster in Dreadknight is faster, shootier, about as punchy, about as tough (when you consider Ghaz' 2++ through Makari) and gets cheap CP use.

Assuming the Grand Master stays at around the 200ish mark (after buying weapons), we could actually have a fairly cheap supreme leader if they're being pointed based on ability.

Well if Ghaz is that cheap I certainly hope the Warboss is significantly cheaper! Has there been any confirmation if there will be structure rules in the detachment where we are limited in the number of Warbosses we can bring?

Oh and the Speedfreekz game looks like a lot of fun!

Looks like the only restriction is on the rule of 3, your points and on epic heroes. If you want 3 megabosses and 3 footbosses you can, if your feeling wild throw in 3 megameks too haha. You can have an army of nothing but characters, will be good? Nope haha.

So you're saying I should covert two of my warbosses into bikers and sweep through with three warbosses on warbikes?

No fr I think hero hammer will be a big thing in 10th. If we were being honest with ourselves most of us would’ve been taking like 3 warbosses in all our games if we could in 9th, but now we can do that and they’ll be harder to kill in 10th.

My assumption that Ghaz would be getting cheaper is based on another assumption that the points scaling remaining roughly the same. I should have worded it better.

In terms of stats and abilities a GMDK looks more on par with Ghaz than he does Guilliman, and there's a 100ish point gap between those units.

Again, assuming that Bobby G stays around 300 points.

Regardless, it's all speculation amd we'll just have to wait and see. I just don't think we should currently be should be paying the same or more for Ghaz that Marines pay for a strictly better Guilliman.

That's a very reasonable stance, and I agree with Ghaz and Abaddon in the below Primarch Tier their points should be significantly cheaper.

There's also the possibility that we see a points hike across the board for all epic heroes.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
My assumption that Ghaz would be getting cheaper is based on another assumption that the points scaling remaining roughly the same. I should have worded it better.

In terms of stats and abilities a GMDK looks more on par with Ghaz than he does Guilliman, and there's a 100ish point gap between those units..

Is also survivability in par? One can be shot at freely even when in melee, other can't be targeted until surrounding unit dead and then has 2++ while it lasts.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
My assumption that Ghaz would be getting cheaper is based on another assumption that the points scaling remaining roughly the same. I should have worded it better.

In terms of stats and abilities a GMDK looks more on par with Ghaz than he does Guilliman, and there's a 100ish point gap between those units.

Again, assuming that Bobby G stays around 300 points.

Regardless, it's all speculation amd we'll just have to wait and see. I just don't think we should currently be should be paying the same or more for Ghaz that Marines pay for a strictly better Guilliman.

If things can get cheaper, then it's safe to assume things will get more expensive too. Primarchs no matter who they are should be below 400pts (just like in heresy) and we shouldn't be in a world where Angron is a mere 30pts more than a Gorkanaut. Its more likely that primarchs will increase in cost than Ghaz going down, because he really shouldn't be sub 300 now that makari is baked into his cost.

Whilst primarchs aren't as tough or as impactful as they are in 30k they are still the demigods of the setting and should be priced to reflect that. If roboute stays around 300 then that's just silly, whilst once apon a time Ghaz and Abbadon were like 220-250pts back in 5th till 7th they have far outgrown their old statlines whilst most infantry haven't.

The grandmaster looks more on par with a Redemptor Dreadnought than Ghaz, he has no sneaky defenses or army buffing and has to live and die purely off of his datasheet. Ghaz and Abbie will forever be blessed by their bodyguard protection which is worth a good sum of points in itself.

I'm not sure about that. Mortarion, Magnus and Angron might be in the same weight class, but I see no way to make a purely offensive melee primarch cost the same as someone who can soak an entire army's worth of shooting or a force multiplier like Magnus.

At some point it just doesn't matter whether Thrakka, Abaddon or Angron hits your average unit in melee. It will be dead no matter what, all those extra attacks, AP and damage isn't really worth that much beyond a certain point. If you have face the Lion yet, you'll get what I mean. His pure statline is no more threatening than Azreal's is.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm not sure about that. Mortarion, Magnus and Angron might be in the same weight class, but I see no way to make a purely offensive melee primarch cost the same as someone who can soak an entire army's worth of shooting or a force multiplier like Magnus.

At some point it just doesn't matter whether Thrakka, Abaddon or Angron hits your average unit in melee. It will be dead no matter what, all those extra attacks, AP and damage isn't really worth that much beyond a certain point. If you have face the Lion yet, you'll get what I mean. His pure statline is no more threatening than Azreal's is.

Well, Thrakka is missing something that a lot of them are getting now, which is a sweep profile. So not only does his smash profile have less attacks, he doesn't have the ability to, say, swing 12-14 times against chaff.

 Jidmah wrote:

There still is the chance that Ghaz can join other units (beast snaggas with that unit buff would be dope), and in 5th we already had Ghaz riding a wagon by himself as a tournament-viable strategy, and with his trusty shadowfield banner carrier it might be again. It really heavily depends on his points. I can see that profile being as cheap as 200 points now.

Not trying to be doom and gloom, but I highly doubt ghaz will get a meaningful (enough) points cut to justify his existence in competitive lists in 10th, at least until we get our codex. Historically, GW drastically over-estimates how good buffs/changes are too Orkz and drastically under-estimates how bad nerfs will be. Squigbuggy as a great example, "Oops we gave Orkz a decent shooting unit, hit it with a points increase, model limitation and eventually a nerf to its primary weapons".

Makari getting baked in is kind of nice, as is the ability to hide him in a unit of bodyguards, but I just doubt he'll be that cheap. Too many "playtesters" used by GW still have conniption fits anytime orkz get anything remotely competitive *Queue the video of the guy ranting about Mozrog Skragbad* (*NOTE* Still want to find a copy of that video, it was so fething funny!)

 Jidmah wrote:
All of the relevant ork shooting we have seen so far pretty much stayed the same, while almost everyone but knights got medium to big nerfs to it.
We've also seen the mek and the firing deck buff to battlewagons, and the 5++ part of the Waaagh! is very useful to both speedwaaaghs and dread mobs even now. It's a free KFF for our whole army - which was a mandatory part of any vehicle lists all the way back to 4th.
And let's not forget that all or vehicle will be jumping up to at least T8/T9 on top of that.

Like every edition before, I feel like what will make or breake ork shooting is the profile of the rokkit. It's just that important to orks.

In fairness though, Ork shooting has been functionally irrelevant for most of this edition. Borderline army wide -1 to hit for multiple armies meant that our 5+ to hit shooting and 4+ in rare instances was basically never hitting. I played multiple games where my shooting phase boiled down to a handful of rolls and me saying "not worth the time it takes to roll the dice". At the GT level, a lot of us actually chose not to roll in the shooting phase for most units because the time taken to make those rolls wasn't worth the dmg it would do.

With all of that in mind, nerfing armies whose entire gimmick was shooting would be more inline with nerfing our close combat....and we have had a drastic nerf to our close combat in both our specific rules and game wide rules we have seen. I hope this means we get to go back to a two pronged army where we can take healthy amounts of dakka and choppa.

gungo wrote:

Egh that +1 movement while nice doesn’t make most charges successful.. orks try to pack most of thier army into a single turn waaagh charge.. this usually means we are using kommandos with thier set 9in deepstrike, manz in trukks, dreads in tellyporta, warbikers, beastboys in killrigs, stormboys, and da jumped boys…while that 1in movement on boys is nice it doesn’t help all those 9in charges units orks relied on for reliable charges… we will have substantially less successful charges without the reroll. And while the +2 strat is nice it’s a movement phase only strat used preemptively usable only once a turn to increase reliability on 1 unit it doesn’t help when you fail a charge.

Keep in mind that was the 9th edition meta and not necessarily what the 10th edition meta will be. 8th edition had us running around at the end with green tide lists, 9th had us running buggies and alpha strikes. 10th might be completely different (I hope it is). As I pointed out with Jidmah, our CC ability has been weakened considerably while our Dakka hasn't been hit ...you could argue it might even have been buffed (we will see).

ccs wrote:

I hope the runtherds are optional.
I have no interest in having any more orks in my gretchin based force than minimally necessary.

Kitbash my friend! Grab those extra grot prods and squig hounds and model some grots to be your "runtherdz" nowhere in the rules does it say you can't make grots into kitbashed runtherdz

 Afrodactyl wrote:
My assumption that Ghaz would be getting cheaper is based on another assumption that the points scaling remaining roughly the same. I should have worded it better.

In terms of stats and abilities a GMDK looks more on par with Ghaz than he does Guilliman, and there's a 100ish point gap between those units.

Again, assuming that Bobby G stays around 300 points.

Regardless, it's all speculation amd we'll just have to wait and see. I just don't think we should currently be should be paying the same or more for Ghaz that Marines pay for a strictly better Guilliman.

would it be right for us to pay a similar price for ghaz as Marines pay for Girlyman? No, has it happened multiple times in the past (At least of similar units/models) yes. I wouldn't put it past GW to just lazily bang out these Codices and leave horrendous imbalance and ridiculously easy to spot broken combos. Look at 8th edition Codices and the Girlyman gunline?

I'm not seeing anything about assault vehicle equivalent for transports, whereas the Mek+firing port rule seems rather nice, that to me seems like the clear avenue.

It makes Lootas look a lot more interesting, even mek/Big Mek relics look more interesting, not to mention tankbustas, even if they get a statline nerf to rokkits.

Then, Flash Gits. +1 BS to everyone in a transport from putting a low cost mek in it is appealing at first glance.

Not being able to assault out of a vehicle would be annoying.

I'm also not seeing anything about -1 to hit. If that happens to be absent or less common, I would tend in that direction.

Even Gorkanauts/Morkanauts and Big Trakks have transport capacity, you could at the very least run the math on having a mek in each one to see if it's cost effective for the transport.

Plus, Big Meks can serve a dual purpose of being useful in combat, and can join units.

Maybe combat will be less interesting/necessary overall, or preferable to avoid.

You could even explore the option of, who knows, actually justifying putting rokkits/big shootas/lobbas on a transport. 22 firing port with whatever you can fit inside + whatever weapons you can tack on the vehicle is a lot of efficiency for a +1 BS mod.

Lootas will be a interesting, they're a favorite unit of mine but frequently underperform each edition. Looks like the choice will be to let them sit on a backfield objective and get a +1 Heavy bonus or stick them in a transport. I am thinking Burnaboyz might be the better call for battlewagons / bonebreakas. All depends on the points though.

 TedNugent wrote:
I'm not seeing anything about assault vehicle equivalent for transports, whereas the Mek+firing port rule seems rather nice, that to me seems like the clear avenue.

Land raider has special rule contents can charge after move+disembark.

Reqular transports if you disembarked after move no charge.

 TedNugent wrote:
I'm not seeing anything about assault vehicle equivalent for transports, whereas the Mek+firing port rule seems rather nice, that to me seems like the clear avenue.

There is nothing to see yet. However, in any edition when charging out of a Landraider was possible, it was also possible to charge out of trukks and battlewagons unless they were 'ard cased. Which would rule out gunwagons and, oddly, bonebreakas.

I'm also not seeing anything about -1 to hit. If that happens to be absent or less common, I would tend in that direction.

-1 to hit is called "stealth" in most cases, which makes it impossible to stack, but it's still around.

Even Gorkanauts/Morkanauts and Big Trakks have transport capacity, you could at the very least run the math on having a mek in each one to see if it's cost effective for the transport.

Nauts probably won't have firing deck.

 Jidmah wrote:

There is nothing to see yet. However, in any edition when charging out of a Landraider was possible, it was also possible to charge out of trukks and battlewagons unless they were 'ard cased. Which would rule out gunwagons and, oddly, bonebreakas.

I won't bet on an assault ramp until I see it. Landraiders had the distinction of a specific rule called assault vehicle, whereas Trukk's and Battlewagons relied on the open topped USR. If there's nothing in core rules, they will need an explicit assault ramp rule, which I didn't see anything in the leaked USRs for that or open-topped. The firing port rule appears to be replacing open-topped for purposes of shooting out of the transport.

-1 to hit is called "stealth" in most cases, which makes it impossible to stack, but it's still around.

In which case +1 to hit still seems like the obvious choice, since 5+ is still double the hits versus 6+.

Nauts probably won't have firing deck.

Of course, but it will still be interesting seeing how the math works out on +1 to hit on the Naut weapons versus the cost of the Mek, who already has the repair ability going for it.

In regards to trukks we did see the rules for venoms today who usually had similar rules being opened topped and all. They got a special rule letting units embark at the end of the fight phase.

I don't think we'll get that, but it does imply GW may give unit specific rules to transports to make them unique. Maybe trukks will get a final move before they die or disembark and assault.

Full rules revealed in a leak, already snatch a copy for myself in PDF format.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3bfi16bQQE

I will be reading it slowly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
a small detail that i was discussing with a mate, is that by the rules, only models in base contact with the models in first line can fight.

I am still reading, but being true this is a nerf to melee. Fights will be harder to manage with lot of models.

Yeah, it would be nice if this meant the return of some of the old school vehicle upgrades in some way, like the boarding plank giving us the assault vehicle style rule for trukks and some equivalent for the battlewagon. Especially since with the changes to vehicle toughness we don't know if things like 'Ard Case is just going to give +1T or if it'll do things like give us a 2+ save or something more meaningful in terms of a defensive profile. Gork knows that the wreckin ball and grabbin klaw have been pointless upgrades for a while, would be nice for them to be worth taking for once.

I would be over the moon if wreckin ball and grabbin klaw became useful.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I would be over the moon if wreckin ball and grabbin klaw became useful.

Even something like the reinforced ram/deff rolla giving some type of bonus to the roll for mortals or amount of mortals during tank shocks would be nice. The grabbin klaw having some sort of rules on being anti-vehicle or monster where it acts as an extra attack weapon where if it hits it prevents that vehicle or monster from falling back or making them suffer a desperate escape roll if they try to fall back. While the wrecking ball can either just have good stats as an extra attack weapon or it causes D3 mortal wounds or something on a successful charge to represent it being wound up before hitting home.

For a race of eccentric looters and ramshackle builders, it's a crime that we have less meaningful options for vehicle upgrades than most factions.

I started using the Deff Rolla in 7th so I can't complain because every edition since then it has gotten remarkably more fun and useful.

The grabbin klaw idea sounds fun and would work well with the new rules they previewed. I suspect we'll see better WS on vehicles so the wrecking ball might be worthwhile. One can hope at least.

Forceride wrote:
Full rules revealed in a leak, already snatch a copy for myself in PDF format.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3bfi16bQQE

I will be reading it slowly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
a small detail that i was discussing with a mate, is that by the rules, only models in base contact with the models in first line can fight.

I am still reading, but being true this is a nerf to melee. Fights will be harder to manage with lot of models.

No. You can fight if you are in engagement range(1", 5" horizontally) OR you are in b2b with model that is b2b with enemy.

First rank can always fight if they are within 1". Only once you want 2nd rank you need to worrry about b2B

Forceride wrote:
Full rules revealed in a leak, already snatch a copy for myself in PDF format.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3bfi16bQQE

I will be reading it slowly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
a small detail that i was discussing with a mate, is that by the rules, only models in base contact with the models in first line can fight.

I am still reading, but being true this is a nerf to melee. Fights will be harder to manage with lot of models.

This might be easier to read than a video

Jidmah! I wanted to go out and have a ride on a moto!

- coherency “2models” trigger at 7 models.
- morale is very different and IMHO very dangerous
— 1 model units are affected (morale test under hlaf of the wounds)
— every unit have to pass morale test if Below Half Strength every turn regardless of lost any models this turn or not.
— pass morale = 2D6 MORE OR EQUAL to your Morale to PASS! = lower morale is better. No modification regarding the number of the lost models!
— if Battleshock, does not lost another models, but is crippled - cannot hold objective, cannot be the target of any strategem,
— if Fallback, than D6 => 1-2 = one model is destroied


Movement
- you can move over friendly units except VEH and MON cannot move over VEH or MON.
- pivoting for free!! No part move more than M of course…
- you can fallback over enemy models
- transports
— you can disembark after transport moved. This unit count as moved and cannot move and charge, but can shoot etc.
— you cannot disembark from the tansport that advanced or fallback
— shooting platform
— disembark after Transport destroyed = D6 => 1 = 1 MW. All such disembarked units count as Battleshocked
—- Emergency Disembark is 1MW for 1-3 on D6 and still 6” but it is for free. Not a strategem.



Shooting
- VEH and MON can be selected as a targets for shooting even if they are in Engagement Range (except from the unit they are in ER with)
- CHAR will be in connection with their Bodyguard units. If not “Look Out Sir” is simple “lone operatives cannot be shot if more than 12”



Resolving attacks
- hit = 1 always fail
- hit = 6 always hit (critical hit)
- no more than +/-1 to hit modifiers

- wound rolls the same mechanic as the hit rolls

- save always fails on 1 and no modifications more than +1

- bunch of weaoon keywords such as Lance, Melta etc. with standard rules
- blast = add 1 to number of shots for every 5 models in target
- indirect the same as now
- heavy weapons remain stationary = +1 to hit
- DEVASTATING = critical wounds (wound rolls of 6) = MWs instead of normal Ws
- SUSTAINED HITS = critical hits (=6s) = another hits regarding the parametr.


CHARGING
- little different wording how to move but as I understand it, if you charge and you can move your models to engagement range, you have to. Please check!
- it seems to me that FLY unit can move over terrain and other units in charge!

FIGHT
- pile 3” and if I understand it right, you must move to B2B if you are able to??
- B2B is the key to fight with more models
- consolidation is pretty complicated. You can consolidate only if you can end it in Engagement range or On Objective Marker. If you can end your Cons move in Engagement range, you must do it so?


Aura = strictly only AURA marked abilities



Default strategems - honestly, pretty useful bunch of strategems!

HI is a strategem now.
Oberwatch is 24” also againts the units that just move!



Strategic reserves NO MORE THAN 25%



TERRAIN

- no benefit of cover againts AP 0 if Sv 3+ and better
- all terrains works pretty mach strightforward = if your unit is not fully visible, you got +1 to sv = benefit of cover = NO -1 TO HIT FROM WOODS!



Building the army is as simple as promissed.

- 1 CHAR at least
- max 3 of one datasheet (6 if BATTLELINE or DEDICATED TRANSPORT)
- there must be a unit in transports on the beginning of the game


Hohohohooo my buggies like this!


—- that is it. Have I missed something? —-

 Tomsug wrote:
Jidmah! I wanted to go out and have a ride on a moto!


FIGHT
- pile 3” and if I understand it right, you must move to B2B if you are able to??
- B2B is the key to fight with more models
- consolidation is pretty complicated. You can consolidate only if you can end it in Engagement range or On Objective Marker. If you can end your Cons move in Engagement range, you must do it so?


—- that is it. Have I missed something? —-

- pile 3” and if I understand it right, you must move to B2B if you are able to?? > it mentions the unit must end in base contact, not the model, thought the same until i read it several times, it's same as now, just really awful wording. Also you missed fly keyword being a diagonal movement through ruins so nerf on that keyword...but i am still reading. Also in terrain beast and infantry move unopposed, some one mentioned that swarms are now infantry.

Also towering ignores obscuring. No hiding from knights or aircraft, same deal the other way around you can always see them. Not a fan of this one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

Forceride wrote:
Full rules revealed in a leak, already snatch a copy for myself in PDF format.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3bfi16bQQE

I will be reading it slowly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
a small detail that i was discussing with a mate, is that by the rules, only models in base contact with the models in first line can fight.

I am still reading, but being true this is a nerf to melee. Fights will be harder to manage with lot of models.

This might be easier to read than a video

Bless you mate, some one sent me through what's app the PDF.

Jidmah, would you be so kind and post us here also the whole index with the faction rules, units, points etc. ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gork and Mork! I have such a great conversion idea! Gosh! This is inspiring afternoon!