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2250 Double-FOC Competitive - Jy2's Draigowing vs Grant Theft Auto's Deer Council Deldar (Completed)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Who has the nastier Deathstar?
Paladins will own the seer council. Stormraven will mess them up real bad.
It doesn't matter about the deathstars. It's all about the objectives, which will all be contested.
The seer council and all its nasty powers, combined with deldar shooting, will win it for the space elves.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

This was actually a practice game for this tournament:

2250 Contest of Champions Tournament - Fun with the Take-Yo-Lunch-Money-&-Make-You-My-Biyotch-Crons

At the time, I hadn't decided on whether I was going or not to the tournament yet. However, after this practice game, I decided that it would be fun to go and check it out (the Contest of Champions). This practice game was against Grant's ultra-tough, super-nasty Eldar/Dark Eldar Seer Council Mechdar, the list that he was bringing to the tournament. I just thought it would be fun to have a Deathstar vs Deathstar Deathmatch and so brought my grey knights. But rather than bring my NecroKnights (GK's + Necrons), I decided to try out a pure Draigowing build.

May the best Deathstar win.


2250 Draigowing Grey Knights vs Deer Council Eldar/Dark Eldar


2250 Grey Knights

Coteaz
Draigo

10x Paladins - 4x Psycannons, Apothecary, Banner, Stave, lots of hammers
5x Paladins - 2x Psycannons, Stave
Soladin - Hammer
Soladin - Hammer
Soladin - Hammer
3x Henchmen

Stormraven - TL-Las, TL-Multi-melta

Psyfleman Dread - Searchlights
Psyfleman Dread - Searchlights
Psyfleman Dread - Searchlights



2250 Deer Council Eldar/Dark Eldar

This is an approximation of his list from memory.


Farseer ("Jetseer") - Jetbike, Shard of Anaris
Farseer - Jetbike, AP2 weapon wargear
Farseer - Jetbike, AP2 weapon wargear

10x Warlocks ("Jetlocks") - Jetbikes, several Singing Spears

Baron
Haemonculi - Crucible of Malediction

5x Dire Avengers - Wave Serpent w/TL-Scatters + Holo-fields
5x Dire Avengers - Wave Serpent w/TL-Scatters + Holo-fields
5x Dire Avengers - Wave Serpent w/TL-Scatters + Holo-fields
5x Rangers

3x Wracks - Venom w/2x Splinter Cannons + Grisly Trophies
3x Wracks - Venom w/2x Splinter Cannons + Grisly Trophies
3x Wracks - Venom w/2x Splinter Cannons + Grisly Trophies
3x Wracks - Venom w/2x Splinter Cannons + Grisly Trophies


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Crusade - 4x Objectives


Deployment: Hammer & Anvil


Initiative: Deldar


-------------------------------------------------------------------


PRE-GAME ANALSYS:

Grey Knights:

His army has evolved since I first started playing against it back in 5th. Back then, he ran a dual-deathstar build with the seer council and a beastpack unit. Fast forward almost a year later and now he is running his seer council with a mainly MSU shooty mech build. Can I beat his army? For that, I'm going to go with my:

Top 10 Reasons why the Grey Knights will win.

1. Paladins are arguably the seer council's worse matchup. His seer council does most of its damage in Assault. Against the paladins, that means normal weapons (which wound on 2+) against AP2/3 force weapons. Both combat and assault favor my paladinstar.

2. I've got good psychic defense. Reinforced Aegis means his farseers will be casting maledictions/witchfire attacks on LD 6. His warlocks? On LD 5. On top of that, I've got a 5+/4+ Deny attempt aganst his farseer/warlocks.

3. If I can get Misfortune, I have a way to counter his Fortune.

4. Psyfleman dreads will just blow his vehicles out of the sky.

5. I am intimately familiar with Grant's army. I've played against them many times and know just what their strengths and weaknesses are.

6. He cannot reliably take out my my stormraven. In an objectives game, that means I can pretty much drop off 1 of my troops on an objective anytime I want.

7. I am going 2nd. I will have the last word in terms of objectives.

8. I plan to get the beta-strike on my opponent with my Reserves. With Draigo's Psychic Communion, I can manipulate my reserves to come in when I want them to.

9. Board control. Once I get my paladins into the middle, there is no shifting them off of it. The only thing my opponent will be able to do is to try to shoot them off of it.

10. 2 words: mindstrike missiles.


Deldar:

I think Grant's Deldar army is much improved. I really like the fact that he has made his army more shooty. It actually somewhat mirrors my army, which is a shooty deathstar build as well. I think his army is going in the right direction. Anyways, why will my opponent win (can he win?)?

Top 10 Reasons why Deldar will win.

1. Psychic powers. With 3 farseers and 10 warlocks, his army has got to be the most awesome, psychically-charged army in the entire 40K universe! There are just so many powers that are so good against my paladins - Terrify, Horrify, Jinx, Misfortune, Hallucination, Doom, Puppet Master, you name it.

2. Eldar has a great chance to get one of the best psychic powers in the game - Death Mission! (I jest, of course I am talking about that "other" Eldar power.)

3. With the Baron, that means I can't lock his deathstar in combat forever. With the Shard of Anaris, that means I can't run them down in combat. Then again, I'm in terminator armor anyways.

4. He's got some nasty firepower against infantry. Lots of dakka.

5. Grisly trophies will allow him to re-roll any failed psychic test or Morale tests.

6. In case I try to cast Misfortune (or any other maledictions) at his deathstar, he has a 4+ chance to Deny it, followed by a re-roll from Fortune.

7. Eldar mobility in Hammer & Anvil deployment. 'Nuff said.

8. Going 1st, he will get the alpha-strike. Not only will he get the alpha-strike, but he will have 2 turns to shoot at me before my reserves even come in for my beta-strike.

9. The Crucible of Malediction is an X-factor. I'm not too familiar with it, but it could potentially ruin my day.

10. His army has got a lot of redundancy. Killing just a few of his units shouldn't affect his output too much. I need to cripple his support units in order to really hurt him. That may be a task easier said than done.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Spoiler:
It is Night-fight.


Warlord traits:

Grey Knights: Useless (Coteaz)

Deldar: Uses Warlord's LD if within 12" of him.

This is huge! That means his warlocks will be casting their psychic powers on LD 10!!!


Psychic Powers:

Grey Knights:

Coteaz - Prescience, Misfortune

Deldar:

Farseer #1 - Guide, Death Mission, Fortune (Warlord)
Farseer #2 - Foreboding, Perfect Timing, Prescience
Farseer #3 - Foreboding, Forewarning, Prescience

Warlocks - 1x Destructor/Renewer, 2x Embolden/Horrify, 1x Enhance/Drain, 2x Protect/Jinx, 2x Empower/Enervate, 2x Conceal/Reveal


Deldar deployment. He deploys right along his table edge to ensure that he is out of range of my dreads (due to Night-fight).

We are using a Necron annihilation barge as a proxy for 1 venom that my opponent forgot to bring.


Grey Knight deployment.

I deploy my paladinstar along with my henchmen and 1 dread. I put the dread and henchmen behind the LOS-blocking tower.

I use Grand Strategy to give 2 of my dreads Scout. They will be out-flanking.

Soladins will deepstrike. 5-man paladin unit will be in the stormraven.


Overview of our deployment.


You can actually see the 4 objectives from this perspective.


Finally, Grant infiltrates his rangers behind the hill in my deployment zone and out of LOS.

I don't attempt to seize and so we begin.....


....but before that, I give my opponent some excellent advice: "Grant, when in doubt, and if you have your back against the wall, just cast Death Mission and all will be taken care of...."




-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deldar 1

Spoiler:

Even with the re-roll from the DE venoms (Grisly Trophies), 1 warlock dies to Perils while trying to cast his powers. All the other elder psykers successfully cast their powers. Farseers cast Guide/Prescience on the venoms.


Deldar movement.


Seer council turbo-boosts to the right. Rangers move up onto the hill.


Rangers try to take out my henchmen for First Blood but only kill 1.

They then roll low for their Battle Focus move (even with the re-roll from Fleet) and fail to make it down the hill.


The rest of his army fires at my paladinstar and manages a grand total of 1 Wound. But to be fair, serpents try to take out my dread and his right-most units could not fire due to the LOS-blocking terrain in the middle.




Grey Knights 1

Spoiler:

I cast Prescience. Some of my guys advance. However, my paladins move towards his rangers (and seer council) in order to shoot at them.

I should have been more careful, as I am moving right into the range of his psychic powers!


I take out his rangers for First Blood.

Dread, however, fails to take out a venom due to Night-fight.




Deldar 2

Spoiler:

Skimmers move.


Right serpent immobilizes itself on terrain.


The seer council prepares to assault.

Here is where my mistake comes back to bite me. Although Grant didn't mark down which warlock had which power, ultimately it is my mistake for not paying attention enough. I move into range of his Warlock with Jinx. He casts it on me and fails the 1st time. He then re-rolls and passes on the 2nd try (but only because he was able to use his Warlord's LD, otherwise, he would have failed again on his own LD). Finally, with a 4+ chance to Deny, I fail to do so!

You are now looking at terminators with a 3+ save only.


His resulting shooting is devastating. I don't make enough saves (plus FNP) and lose 4 paladins (including my warding stave) as well as Draigo!

He also takes out my dread with his shooting.


The seer council then attempts the multi-charge. Even with a re-rollable 2+ armour/cover save, I manage to shoot down 1 jetlock with Overwatch....


....but they still make the assault.


Combat is devastating. He issues a challenge. I accept with Coteaz, not realizing that it is the Shard of Anaris who is issuing the challenge. He then insta-gibs Coteaz. Overall, I roll pooring on my saves (and FNP) and lose another 3 paladins as well as my henchman (keep in mind that his other 2 farseers have AP2 weapons)!

Wow! What a disaster! Besides my own mistake, his Warlord trait really screwed me over! If not for that Warlord trait, he wouldn't have been able to get off Jinx on my paladins. Of course the dice didn't do me any favors either, but now I'm going to be scrambling for my paladin lives! That was an absolutely horrendous turn for me!




Grey Knights 2

Spoiler:
Without Draigo, I have no way to control my reserves.


Soladin drops down near his immobilized serpent.


Actually, all 3 of my soladins come in.


As does 1 dread.

However, my stormraven and other dread fail to show up.


Soladin perils and fails to cast Holocaust.

Dread shoots at his serpent in the butt....but he makes both of his cover saves!


Finally, in combat, for some reason, I only lose 1 paladin this turn.

My opponent decides not to Hit-&-Run.




Deldar 3

Spoiler:
His seer council actually decides not to cast any powers this turn in fear of over-killing my paladins. He wants to stay locked in combat still, at least until after my raven comes in.


Deldar movement. He gets his Haemonculus with Crucible in the center of all 3 of my soladins.

Serpent prepares to shoot my dread in the butt this time.


He unleashes his Crucible. I then fail LD on both of my soladins and lose them both.


Serpent shoots down my dread. The rest of his shooting puts 1W on my last soladin.

Man, when it rains, it pours. Yikes!


I try to kill off my paladins in combat but now they wouldn't fail a save. Dice, where were you when I needed you on Turn 2?!?




Grey Knights 3

Spoiler:

My last dread comes in but still no raven (with 5-man paladin squad inside).

My dread shoots his serpent in the a$$ once again....and once again, he makes all his jink cover saves!

So far, my opponent has made every single cover/flickerfield save that he's had to make in this game.


Finally, I will get my chance to kill a serpent. Hammerdin prepares to smash it to pieces....


....but then dies to Perils while casting Hammerhand and before he could strike.

Man, this game is fething ridiculous. At this point, I just had to laugh. It's just one of those games where nothing goes right for you but everything goes right for your opponent.


Apothecary/banner down. 1 more paladin to go.




Deldar 4

Spoiler:

Venoms start heading for the objectives.


Will he survive?


No!


He finally finishes off my paladinstar. Fortunately for me, he rolls only 1" for his consolidation.

You know what that means, right?




Grey Knights 4

Spoiler:

Have you heard of the saying, "winner winner chicken dinner"?

Well, I'm feasting on venison tonight. My raven would do anything for a buck.


BAM!!! After I unleash all my mindstrikes, only his farseers and the Baron are left. The entire council is gone.




Deldar 5

Spoiler:

Farseers go after my raven.


His wracks (proxied using his kabalite warriors) swarm the objective.

Currently, he's got 2 objectives.


They (the council) chuck prescience spears at it but I just laugh at them.

Then his wave serpent takes off 1 HP from my raven.




Grey Knights 5

Spoiler:
Ok, things are looking rather bleak. It is almost impossible for me to pull off a win, but I still have a very slim chance of pulling off the tie. In order to do that, I need to do the following/have the following to happen:


  • 1. I need to grab 1 objective.


  • 2. I need to contest 1 of his objectives.


  • 3. I need to make it into his deployment zone for Linebreaker.


  • 4. I need for the game to end.



  • Well, let me start in reverse. The game does end this turn (we rolled for it), but do I achieve my miracle?



    Raven moves 36".


    Paladins then deepstrike from it. I need an accurate deepstrike. However, they scatter! Fortunate for me, the scatter is very slight - only about 3".

    I do make a mistake here. I actually drop them off in the Movement phase. You can only drop them when the raven goes flat-out, but it wouldn't have made much of a difference. I would have just moved it 18" in the Movement phase and then go flat-out 18-36" in the Shooting phase to drop them off.

    Now I can make it if I am able to run about 4-5".


    I only run 3". NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

    I am contesting his objective. My lead paladin also makes it into his deployment zone for Linebreaker. However, I am about 1" short from my objective!!!


    Deldar holds 1 objective.


    I'm 1" short of my objective so I hold 0.

    He's got Linebreaker and Warlord. I've got Linebreaker and First Blood.


    Deldar wins it 5-2. Damn....so close and yet so far....


    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    However, my opponent makes a huge mistake in this game.

    It was the Warlord Trait where his units within 12" could use his Warlord's LD. Now in the game, we played it as his Warlocks could use their Warlord's (the Farseer's) LD for psychic tests as well. However, p.67 of BRB explicitly prevents any LD borrowing for the purposes of psychic tests. The psychic tests are always done using the leadership value of the psyker who is casting the power.

    His Warlock only passed his re-rollable psychic power by using the LD of his Warlord. On his own, he failed the test to cast Jinx, even with the re-rolls (he would be casting on LD4 due to Reinforced Aegis from my dread). Thus, they would have failed to cast Jinx on my paladinstar, which would have totally changed the outcome of the game.

    As it is my opponent's mistake and it was a game-changing mistake, I will have to declare this game a No Contest (or Draw) and that a Rematch is in order.





    No Contest (Draw)!!!






    -------------------------------------------------------------------


    POST-GAME ANALSYS:



    This message was edited 23 times. Last update was at 2013/10/26 05:14:09



    6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
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    GK minor victory- Psyflemen are hard to take out without dropping shields, which would lead to pain from the Psycannons. Paladins will lock down two objectives due to absence of Lances, while he avoids touching them in CC.


     
       
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    Fortress of Solitude

    I give it to the Deldar. Grant is *really* good with his council.

    Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
    Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General 
       
    Made in us
    Fixture of Dakka





    San Jose, CA



    Pre-game Analysis up.





    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     jifel wrote:
    GK minor victory- Psyflemen are hard to take out without dropping shields, which would lead to pain from the Psycannons. Paladins will lock down two objectives due to absence of Lances, while he avoids touching them in CC.

    Yeah, that is one of my plans. Let him expend his serpent shields and then shoot down his wave serpents. I'm going to focus on taking out all of his support units while ignoring his seer council for the most part.


     ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
    I give it to the Deldar. Grant is *really* good with his council.

    Yeah. His army is the toughest army I have faced in 6E, and I've faced a lot of good armies before.

    Back in 5th, I used to pound on his army more often than not. I guess it helps for him to play against me, Reecius and Janthkin on a consistent basis. He's now gotten really good with them. Now the shoe is on the other foot. I'm having more trouble with his deer council than vice versa.

    However, I have not played against them with my necrons yet. I still suspect that my wraithwing crons can take on his army.

    Just as I suspect that my paladins should be able to pull off a narrow victory here.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/17 00:51:43



    6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
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    Major




    Fortress of Solitude

     jy2 wrote:



     ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
    I give it to the Deldar. Grant is *really* good with his council.

    Yeah. His army is the toughest army I have faced in 6E, and I've faced a lot of good armies before.

    Back in 5th, I used to pound on his army more often than not. I guess it helps for him to play against me, Reecius and Janthkin on a consistent basis. He's now gotten really good with them. Now the shoe is on the other foot. I'm having more trouble with his deer council than vice versa.

    However, I have not played against them with my necrons yet. I still suspect that my wraithwing crons can take on his army.

    Just as I suspect that my paladins should be able to pull off a narrow victory here.



    I think much depends on the powers Grant gets, Hallucination is just brutal against units like the palliestar.

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    San Jose, CA

    Well, he doesn't get Hallucination, though he did get Fortune.



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    The crucible of maledictions effectiveness will be largely determined by what you guys agreed upon to be counted as psykers. Technically speaking I think only Coteaz and Draigo could be affected by it, but that could be largely up for debate. Either way I suspect a very narrow victory for the knights due to the deldars lack of dl's.

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    San Jose, CA

    We play the Brotherhood of Psykers as just 1 random guy in the unit gets affected by the Crucible. Of course that would be in addition to Coteaz and Draigo if their unit was in range of the Crucible.


    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/17 01:39:48



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    Boston, MA

    I'm voting for a draw
       
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    Ooo everyones in for a treat. Here comes the most epic fight of 6th edition, this was definitely an awesome game.
       
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    I ca see two turns of Mind Strike missiles winning this game. Also, I see the resiliency of Driago and Co to be too great to effectively combat. That being said he does have an edge in ability to take objectives. If the Game goes 5 rounds I'm calling Minor win for GK, Turns 6+ Major Victory Grey Knights.

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    purging philadelphia

    Man i hope those GK make VENISON out of the deer council! GET IT? VENISON!...oh man.

    I think the dreads could a a real pain for the eldar, this ones a tough call.

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    thanatos67 wrote:
    Man i hope those GK make VENISON out of the deer council! GET IT? VENISON!...oh man.

    I think the dreads could a a real pain for the eldar, this ones a tough call.


    Horrible, yet I still spilled my coffee laughing.

    I do think that GK win this more often than not, but if his wave serpents have early success against the dreads then his venoms could win a battle of attrition with the GK killing off the smaller units as they come in while staying out of range of any return fire.

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    yeah!!! finally grey knights as i asked thanks man, really want to read this!

    PALADINS!!! DESTROY THEM ALL!!!

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    San Jose, CA

    thanatos67 wrote:
    Man i hope those GK make VENISON out of the deer council! GET IT? VENISON!...oh man.

    I think the dreads could a a real pain for the eldar, this ones a tough call.

    Oh, deer me.

    That joke is just too fawny!

    Here, let me give you a buck for your comedic skills.



    I'm expecting a lot from my dreads, though those 4+ holo-fielded jink saves on his serpents are going to be darn tough to penetrate.


    Grant Theft Auto wrote:
    Ooo everyones in for a treat. Here comes the most epic fight of 6th edition, this was definitely an awesome game.

    Yeah, thanks for the game, Grant. We will get our epic Necron-Deldar showdown sometime in the future. Probably at the next CoC tourney. My goal for my competitive crons is still to crush any upstart eldar/tau armies that get in their way. Muhahahahaha.


     Zagman wrote:
    I ca see two turns of Mind Strike missiles winning this game. Also, I see the resiliency of Driago and Co to be too great to effectively combat. That being said he does have an edge in ability to take objectives. If the Game goes 5 rounds I'm calling Minor win for GK, Turns 6+ Major Victory Grey Knights.

    He does have a chance against them. If he can somehow get off Misfortune or Jinx on them, then he's got a shot to take them down.

    However, Misfortune will be on a LD 6 psychic test (though re-rollable because of Grisly Trophies) with a 5+ chance for me to Deny.

    Jinx will be on a LD 5 psychic test (maybe LD 4?....don't quite remember what are the LD of the warlocks) with a 4+ chance to Deny.

    Those are probably the only ways to take out my paladins. Psychic powers + volume of fire.


    Marcus Scipio wrote:
    thanatos67 wrote:
    Man i hope those GK make VENISON out of the deer council! GET IT? VENISON!...oh man.

    I think the dreads could a a real pain for the eldar, this ones a tough call.


    Horrible, yet I still spilled my coffee laughing.

    I do think that GK win this more often than not, but if his wave serpents have early success against the dreads then his venoms could win a battle of attrition with the GK killing off the smaller units as they come in while staying out of range of any return fire.

    Yeah, I think it's going to boil down to whose supporting units does better. Like if Kobe and Lebron clashed. The stars will most likely neutralize each other. The winner will then probably be the team whose supporting players perform the best.


     Fire Angel wrote:
    yeah!!! finally grey knights as i asked thanks man, really want to read this!

    PALADINS!!! DESTROY THEM ALL!!!

    Yeah, sorry for the wait. I actually played this game before my tournament, but then I posted my tournament reports first. But now, time to give the knights their spotlight.



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    Yea warlocks are ld 8 so he needs to get past a ld4 check with reinforced aegis. Even if he drops your dreads its a ld7 check which isn't great. I think he can drop at least 1.5 dreads first turn though if he plays it right. Wrap them up turn 2. AV 12 3hp is so bad this edition verse things that negate cover. Funny enough his list completely lacks AT verse av14. I actually think your quad pro quo wolves would through a wrench at him.witch blades are a shadow of their former glory.

       
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     Red Corsair wrote:
    Yea warlocks are ld 8 so he needs to get past a ld4 check with reinforced aegis. Even if he drops your dreads its a ld7 check which isn't great. I think he can drop at least 1.5 dreads first turn though if he plays it right. Wrap them up turn 2. AV 12 3hp is so bad this edition verse things that negate cover. Funny enough his list completely lacks AT verse av14. I actually think your quad pro quo wolves would through a wrench at him.witch blades are a shadow of their former glory.

    Which is why I don't deploy my dreads. Well, 2 of them at least. In order to prevent his alpha-strike (and so that I could do my beta-strike). I actually use Grand Strategy to outflank 2 of my dreads. I then hide the 3rd dread in deployment in order to give my paladins some Reinforced Aegis protection.

    And since we are playing H&A, that means when my dreads come in, they're going to be shooting some wave serpents in the butt unless my opponent keeps his serpents near his board edge.

    Suprisingly, his seer council can take care of land raiders. They've got that +1 Strength power, which we play here as cumulative. Thus, you get enough S5-7 +2D6 armour pen hits in (+Prescience), they should be able to hurt land raiders.



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    It's probably obvious, but those Serpents, Scatter Lasers?

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     djones520 wrote:
    It's probably obvious, but those Serpents, Scatter Lasers?

    Yeah. I'll go add them in.



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    This is a great example of the weaknesses of the Jetcouncil list if you don't build it right. Without any form of long ranged anti tank weaponry it has serious issues against mech lists (or indeed any list with some heavy armour) that has at least some form of counterpunch which stops you just zerging forward, if you play it right the council can't really get to the Dreads. I know the Venoms are nice (and at 2k+ the Haemonculi to get cheaper units in them is great) but imo the list would be far stronger if you swapped a couple of them out for Vibrocannons or some other form of long range high strength support unit. You only need 2-3 Venoms so you can keep the Council re-rolling powers, in this case I think the psychic defence from the Dreads could be the deciding factor in this game (that and taking Rangers over Jetbikes). I don't think you fear the Raven tbh, you should be able to bounce in and out of combat to avoid it, and with large bases and proper spacing you just lose 2 Warlocks two it (since they can't hurt the Farseers due to Ghosthelms).

    Also doesn't the Crucible effect all psykers within 3D6"? I.e there is no mention of friendly psykers? It was written before allies and Dark Eldar have none, so afaik it should be hitting the Warlocks and Farseers as well. Still valuable either way, just requires a bit more finesse to use.

    As usual with these lists the powers rolled can make a big difference. Terrify does nothing (you are Fearless from Draigo, but you still have ATSKNF remember), the big one in this matchup is Protect imo. Getting to a 2+ save means you ignore all the AP3 power weapons, but more importantly if you can get it off on the Paladins then they will probably lose assaults to the Council, volume of wounds can struggle against 2+, but it cleans up Marines just fine. Realistically though the only way that is going to happen is if the Council lives through multiple rounds of combat with the Paladins - first round you bounce out, 2nd you charge the Dread (and hopefully something else so you don't get shot) and then in the 3rd round you might get debuffs on the Paladins. In the best possible scenario (the Paladins charging the Council, in the top of the 2nd turn) that is going to happen the bottom of turn 4, and I can't see the Council having the numbers at that stage.
       
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    The Crucible is only 2d6 but I've seen people get it wrong many a time. It's their only real psychic defense besides DtW... It would be a lot better if it were 3d6.

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    The minstrike missiles will own the jetseers! As long as they dont have a bunch of warpcharge to burn on the ghosthelm.

       
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     SkaredCast wrote:
    The minstrike missiles will own the jetseers! As long as they dont have a bunch of warpcharge to burn on the ghosthelm.


    You generate warp charge every player turn, not every game turn. If you didnt then you wouldn't be able to use force weapons unless it was your turn. Because of this Mindstrikes are completely pointless against the Farseers themselves, you would have to get 6 hits from Mindstrikes to kill 1 (i.e 3 Ravens dumping all the missiles they can in a single turn and getting clean hits on every single one). The Warlocks don't have Ghosthelms though, so are easy prey if they aren't spread.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/18 03:03:21


     
       
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    Paladins are good vs Seers in my experience too. I imagine the Paladins win, though Serpents may do very well against the Dreadnoughts.

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    He has 4?

    Edit: Ah well technically he has 5, that's because they're playing double force org AND allies.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/18 12:52:30



     
       
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    I'm gonna laugh if your last bit of advice before the game starts, costs you the game.

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    Just wanted to ask what AP 2 weapon the farseers have? Farseers only have access to singing spears, witch blades and remnants of glory. He has already used the shard once and wild fire blades are AP 3, so I'm confused about how he got those AP 2 weapons.

    On the game I would give it slightly to the grey knights, due to the eldar having very little to hurt the multiple psyflemen. Mass trength 7 is fun and all, but is it enough? Also misfortune will be horrible if it goes off, cancelling out fortune and making them vulnerable. Its because of misfortune I always take one runes of warding, simple because if I get misfortuned then that's a very expensive unit up in smokes if I can't make a 4+ deny the witch. I'd much rather make a 2+ for 10 points then have a what? 1000pt unit get torrented down?

    I would also of said that he probably could of got a little bit of AT in there, maybe by down grading a serpent to jetbikes and dropping a venom he could fit in something. But that said, I won't count them out. Ghosthelm placement makes the unit surprisingly resilient to mindstrikes, fortune and protect make the unit undeniably very survivable. That being said, I simply can't understand why he continued to roll on divination? Was e gunning for misfortune? I think that he should of rolled for warlocks first, then seeing he had two horrifies should of taken at least 1 psykic shriek. Prescience and misfortune are the only things he wants on divination, and when he didn't get it while throwing an entire farseer into it he should of when for telepathy in my opinion. Although, crucible of malediction used in conjunction with a horrify or two would be a scary concept, forcing even draigo to take a 50/50 chance of simply being removed from play, but reinforced aegis should help prevent it.

    Alex.

     
       
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    I would laugh so hard if the Crucible of Malediction went off and draigo bit the dust.

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     ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
    I would laugh so hard if the Crucible of Malediction went off and draigo bit the dust.


    If for no other reason then to see it actually have an effect for once. So many DE artifacts are such rubbish lol.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Dozer Blades wrote:
    The Crucible is only 2d6 but I've seen people get it wrong many a time. It's their only real psychic defense besides DtW... It would be a lot better if it were 3d6.


    Ummm... You must get it wrong all the time because its definitely 3D6". But it's still awful so worry

    He'll need some incredible luck just getting it in an effective spot let alone stacking powers and killing anyone. IMO the shattershard is the best arcane item.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/18 19:49:50


       
     
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