Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
While down in SoCal, I got a game in against Casey's (aka Brothererekose here on dakka) mechdar + IG army. I've played once with Casey before. It was a 2 vs 1 where we both teamed up with 2500 of Chaos + Tau against 2700-pts of Space Wolves. That was the last time I was down in SoCal. This will be the first I have ever played against Brothererekose. From talking to him, it doesn't appear that he is a competitive player, but just from playing with him last time, I know he knows his stuff. For this game, originally, he was going to bring pure Eldar with wraithknight, but because his WK isn't finished yet, he decided to bring some IG allies instead.
As for me, this is only my 3rd game with the army. The 2nd game was against an IG Air Cavalry army:
However, this time, we are playing at 2K so I decided to just throw some daemonettes into my army. I think Brothererekose's army will be a good test for my army. If my "casual" daemons can deal with the likes of mechdar, then they've definitely got what it takes to compete against the top armies.
Herald - Khorne, Juggernaut, Locus of Fury, Lesser Gift (Axe of Khorne)
Herald - Slaanesh, Steed, Lvl 2 Psyker, Locus of Grace, Greater Gift (Greater Etherblade)
Herald - Tzeentch, Disc, Lvl 3 Psyker, Locus of Conjuration, Exalted Gift (Grimoire of True Names)
Herald - Tzeentch, Disc, Lvl 3 Psyker, Exalted Gift (Portaglyph)
It appears to me that the IG allies are more experimental in this list than anything. Personally, I think the wraithknight would have made his list better, though I can certainly understand why my opponent didn't want to use him (because he wasn't finished). While vendettas are good, they are not as effective against my army as they would have been against other armies. However, the difference between BE's (Brothererekose's) vendettas and my previous opponent's vendettas is that BE has stocked his vends with heavy bolters. That's 12 extra shots for them, which makes them better against my army than my previous IG opponent, who ran his vends naked instead.
However, what has me concerned most is his serpent shields and the fact that they ignore cover. That means I can't rely on Invisibility (yes, I did get Invisibility but no Forewarning) to help protect my mini-screamerstar. That, in turn, means that my Grimoire Herald is vulnerable to my opponent's shooting. Also, his build puts me army in a bit of a dilemma, namely, how to use my Grimoire. My 1st instinct would be to use it on my flesh hounds. However, that would mean that my screamer-star would be vulnerable to his serpents. If I then put it on them, then Fateweaver will be vulnerable to his vendettas when they come in. I can only choose to protect 1 unit and so I must choose carefully. Lose Fateweaver and I lose a huge force-multiplier in my army. Lose the screamer-star and I lose the ability to protect my units with the Grimoire. I must tread very carefully in this matchup.
I may have some difficult decisions, but I am going to make my opponent have to make some impossible decisions. Yes, my army excels in the Maximum Threat Overload (MTO) strategy. My decisions will be a walk-in-the-park compared to what my opponent will have to make, especially in regards to target prioritization. You think I am going to hold back? Oh no...., when in doubt, just go all out. I'm going to hit my opponent with my entire army all at once so that, even if he does manage to take out one of my units (doubtful), I'm going to be assaulting with 2 units on Turn 2. I should have him trapped in his own deployment zone, thus allowing my troops to grab objectives. This should allow me to take the game. However, my opponent does have an x-factor - his warp spiders. If he reserves them and then deepstrike them into my deployment zone, then he has a chance to win. First of all, he can target my troops. Secondly, he will force me to double-back with one of my FA units, thus relieving the pressure that I will be applying on his main force. However, my opponent better pray that they come in sooner rather than later. If they come in late, it may well be game over before then. However, if his spiders come in on Turn 2, then BE has a chance.
Oh, BTW, did I forget to mention that we are playing the Scouring as Primary? That means all my ridiculously hard-to-kill Fast Attacks will be scoring.
I make a ton of mistakes in this game. I'll list them throughout the battle, starting with my deployment.
Daemon Mistake #1: I deploy my screamer-star to the very right and out of range to cast Prescience nor use the Grimoire on my flesh hounds.
Daemon deployment to the left.
Overview of the daemon deployment.
Horrors in reserves will be deepstriking.
Eldar deployment. The very left skimmer (the falcon) is a proxy for his night-spinner.
Here BE makes a mistake as well. He deploys his psykers in their vehicles. That means they won't be able to cast any malediction powers (i.e. Doom) on their turn.
Overview of our deployment.
I then do my Scout move for my dogs.
Daemon Mistake #2: Here, I have a chance to string out my dogs and move them back into Grimoire and maybe even Prescience range of my Tzeentch Heralds. However, like a noob, I totally didn't do that.
Fatey casts Invisibility and Endurance on the screamers. Tzeentchralds cast Prescience and Perfect Timing on themselves and Prescience on the seekers.
I believe I use the Grimoire on the seekers.
Daemon Mistake #3: Throughout the entire game, I forget to cast any powers from my Slaanesh Herald. That's right. I never cast Puppet Master nor Hallucination with her in this game. It's like I forgot that she is even a psyker!
Fateweaver flies behind the tower for protection.
Screamer-star turbo-boosts.
Daemon Mistake #4: I still haven't learned from my mistakes yet. I position the Grimoire Herald to the very left....and out of range to Grimoire the dogs or even Fateweaver!!!
No shooting and no assault. Instead, my units run.
Eldar 1
Spoiler:
Skimmers move. He basically backs up.
Another perspective of the eldar movement.
War Walkers fire at and take down 2 Khorne dogs, mainly because they are currently unprotected.
All his serpents fire at my screamerstar. I don't believe a single scatter laser shot is able to penetrate my re-rollable 2+ cover, though his serpent shields (which ignore cover) manage to shoot down 2 screamers and put 1W on a 3rd unit.
I could live with that.
Daemons 2
Spoiler:
I cast my psychic powers. Portaglyph Herald actually perils.
Daemon Mistake #5: I forget that the Grimoire can be used any time in the Movement phase, so I could have moved my dogs and then moved my Herald to within Grimoire range of them.
Only 1 unit of horrors come in. They drop in by the Scatterfield (+1 cover) 3-pt Scouring objective.
Daemon Mistake #6: I forget to run them into area terrain (we played that rock outcrop as area). That would have given them a 2+ go-to-ground cover save thanks to the Scatterfield objective...re-rollable!
Daemons go in for the kill.
I have a decision to make with Fateweaver. Leave him on the board, unprotected, and risk getting him slaughtered by the vendettas, or fly him off the table.
Ah, screw it. He's THE Big Chicken, but he ain't no chicken! Besides, he foresaw his own future and it told him to....
Dogs prepare for a multi-assault.
Daemonettes advance but hang around the objective by the tower.
I didn't over-commit with them because I know what my opponent is going to do next turn with his spiders.
Fatey shoots at the walkers. With 4D6 S5 shots, I should be able to blow all 3 away, right? Nope, I only do 1 HP of damage in total. D'oh!
Damn birdie. You should have fled while you had the chance!
(BTW, I was playing it that he can't use his re-rolls while he is off the table.)
Let the carnage commence!
(BTW, I play it that the screamers get only 1 lamprey bite armourbane attack, even on the charge).
Resistance is futile.
Seekers hit the walkers.
Mercy is for the meek. Blood for the Blood God! Yada, yada, yada....
Khorne-dogs multi-charge 2 serpents.
War walkers give my First Blood.
VP's - Daemons: 1, Eldar: 0
However, between Overwatch, combat (he struck first because my seekers assaulted through terrain) and the 2 explosions, I actually end up losing 10 seekers!
Next to go is the night-spinner.
VP's - Daemons: 2, Eldar: 0
Finally, the dogs wreck 1 skimmer and take off 2 HP's from the other skimmer.
VP's - Daemons: 3, Eldar: 0
Eldar 2
Spoiler:
Swoop hawks....I mean, warp spiders drop in next to my pink horrors. D'oh! Why the heck didn't I run them into terrain!?!
Vendettas come in and go after my Warlord (Fateweaver).
Both wave serpents try to get the heck out of dodge.
Farseer + avengers try to get away. Man, they are sooooo slow.
I believe his farseer casts Doom on my dogs?
Dire avengers on foot walks in from their board edge. They shoot down my Herald despited the 2+ re-rollable cover.
Daemon Mistake #7: I am really beating my head for my stupidity. Why the heck didn't I do a Look-Out-Sir!?! Sh*t!
Daemon Mistake #8: I forget to drop off the Portaglyph. Too late now....he's already dead.
VP's - Daemons: 3, Eldar: 1
Dires only manage to shoot down 1 dog.
Wave serpents then move flat-out to get even further away from my daemon horde.
Vendettas then drop 6 TL-lascannons and 12 heavy bolter shots into Fatey. He survives and takes 3W of damage....despite only a 5++ save from a failed Grimoire last turn!
Daemon Mistake #9: Yes, it was a very bright move to leave Fateweaver on the table, despite failing the Grimoire on him last turn (even with his re-roll). I'm damn lucky he's still alive this turn.
Spiders shoot down 7 horrors.
They then battle-focus and jump as far away from my guys with their assault move.
Wow, I can't believe how terrible I've been playing so far. And yet, I'm still dominating. What the heck?!?
Daemons 3
Spoiler:
1 unit of horrors deepstrike here.
The other unit drops in near his swooping spiders.
Fatey actually flies off the board, vector-striking the unit of dire avengers. He kills 4.
Screamers move and then turbo after the spiders. There will be no escape.
Shooting from horrors actually kill 5 spiders due to terrible saves by my opponent. They would pass morale.
My other unit of horrors fire at his farseer's unit but my opponent successfully denies it.
His serpents cannot escape. My threat range is just too large. I assault both serpents.
I explode one of them. The explosion kills 1 seeker, 1 dog and 3 dire avengers from 2 separate squads.
VP's - Daemons: 4, Eldar: 1
Seekers wreck the other serpent.
VP's - Daemons: 5, Eldar: 1
Eldar 3
Spoiler:
Vendettas go after the dogs/seekers.
Eldar movement.
Spiders decide they want to try to take down one of my scoring units before they die.
Vendettas fire at the dogs. He actually insta-kills a lot of my dogs (no Grimoire). I lose 6 dogs.
Dire avengers and wraithguards combine to take out 5 seekers.
Spiders have a poor turn of shooting and manage only to take out 1 horror.
Farseer's unit fails to shoot down any horrors. They then assault.
Dires and wraithguards assault my seekers.
Lastly, the spiders assault the horrors.
My horrors prove to be quite resilient. He only kills 1 in combat. I then lose 2 more to Daemonic Instability.
My Slaaneshi Herald is a boss. He kills 2 seekers (the rest of the seeker unit) and I kill a total of 5 eldar. The dires then break and run away.
VP's - Daemons: 5, Eldar: 2
Finally, the spiders would kill off 6 horrors after Daemonic Instability.
Daemons 4
Spoiler:
Fatey comes in behind his vendettas.
Dogs go to help out my Herald.
Screamer-star goes after the vendettas as well.
Daemonettes prepare to join the fight.
Fatey perils and fails to cast Flickering Fire.
Tzeentch Heralds, on the other hand, manage to take 2 HP off of 1 vendetta and shake it.
Finally, onto assault.
No way those spiders are getting out of there alive.
Horrors lose 1 but pass their instability test.
Wraithguards down....
VP's - Daemons: 6, Eldar: 2
....and spiders out.
VP's - Daemons: 7, Eldar: 2
This is fast becoming a route, but my opponent decides to keep on keeping on.
Eldar 4
Spoiler:
Vendettas move forwards, staying in zooming mode.
Veterans deepstrike out of the vendetta and scatter.
I believe the vendettas opt to go after my single Herald. They take her down.
VP's - Daemons: 7, Eldar: 3
Daemons 5
Spoiler:
Daemons go in for the kill.
There shall be no survivors.
Death to all who stand in my way.
Fatey actually shoots down both vendettas.
Take the Warlord's head!
The end is nigh.
We have such sights to show you....in hell!
Can't we all get along?
NO!!! I run down the very last survivor in combat.
So how did I make so many mistakes and still come out with such a dominating performance? I attribute this more to my experience and my opponent's lack of experience. I both play eldar and played against eldar. I have a huge advantage in this regard. On the other hand, I don't think my opponent really has much experience against the likes of my army before. I put my opponent in a precarious position - surrounded on all sides by huge, fast threats and really only had to react to his decision-making. It's not easy playing against the likes of my army. Usually, it takes experience to get out of the pressure-cooker I put them under. Either that or a very creative and cunning mind. If you've played against a MTO-style army before, you are more prepared on how to deal with them. Unfortunately, I don't think my opponent has been in this position very much, and probably not against a general such as I. Thus, as long as the dice wasn't too extreme, it ended kind of how I expected it to (though honestly, I didn't expect to be able to table eldar).
But I can see just from that game how my opponent was improving. After the game, we were talking and he was telling me that he probably should have spread out in deployment and then spread out some more. I agree with this tactic. Since I went first, I had to spread out my army because I wasn't sure where he was going to deploy. That is when my opponent's decision to spread out becomes more viable. If I had gone 2nd, I would have punished him by attacking his flanks, but because I had to go first, I couldn't do this. The key to playing against an MTO-style list is to force the more aggressive player to split up. When he has all 3 of his offensive units going after your army, it is an extremely tough position to get out of. However, if you can force him to re-direct some of his forces, then it becomes much easier for your main army to deal with 2 or just 1 unit. Either that or you've got to have a lot of screening or tarpitting elements to your army (the ideal solution is to do both - to redirect his forces as well as to have a screening/tarpitting presence).
Despite the brutality of the game, it seemed that my opponent was still having fun and that is all that matters. It also seemed that he learned a great deal from our game. Can't really ask for more than that. Play with a good attitude and take whatever positives you can and learn from it. Casey, thanks for the game. It was a pleasure.
Eldar: (by Brothererekose)
While this was a complete mistake-fest for both parties, jy2's claim that he made a bunch of them prolly only prevented an earlier tabling. My poor decisions out-stripped his in the overall outcome. I clearly earned the BoneHead-Trophy for this match.
1. I had won the dice off to go first, instead I yielded Turn 1 to jy2, thinking that on the objectives, I'd do better to go second, with the Vendettas maybe using Hover Mode and possibly protecting my fragile veterans. Nope! jy2's Screamers were going to gain their 2+ re-roll saves to Scatter Laser fire once they'd Turbo'd. If I had fired first on Turn 1, before the screamers moved, I might've knocked off a few more, possibly the unit and the MTO strategy would be a bit hampered.
2. Farseer in the car. Darn it, I keep leaving him in. Once the dogs and Slaany riders were in assault range, I decided to keep them in for safety. Would I have been better off getting them out? Dunno.
3. Deployment - already discussed. A decent spread of my units might've mitigated the initial crush of Turn 2.
4. War Walkers, Outflank? They would have lasted the one turn they arrived, but jy2 would have had to deal with a the WarpSpiders & WarWs, too.
5. I took the Warp Spiders the wrong direction once they'd shot the pinkies. I misjudged just how far they might get away from , although, at that point, jy2 had the game in hand.
6. Target Priority on the Vendettas. I dunno as if I'd used these best. Plus, the Primaris Psyker was probably under used. I like his Lightning, but I might be better off on the RB's powers.
Overall, I am a rtt vet, but not a good one. I have an abysmal track record (possibly becoming an infamously bad Track Record at this point). I can see game strategies far better from an arm-chair, but not so well on the field. jy2 is a GT level player, and even playing sloppily, he can easily beat me. *If* I am going to beat an opponent like this , I'll need:
a. great dice for me, bad for him. jy2 *did* have several Perils rolls early on, but he'd really started getting some great saves in Turns 3 & 4. Mine start going south a bit, but I don't recall as they were horrid in a lot of places
b. an air-tight, mistake free game, possibly sprinkled with a brilliant maneuver or two. Unless I can pull off some really clever tactic, a player like jy2 is going to play me like a coffee can.
I enjoyed the game and will happily play jy2 again, but for his entertainment, I hope I can bring a far better level of competition.
This message was edited 17 times. Last update was at 2013/11/04 01:58:53
I'll vote after we see Psychic powers, but I am currently giving the edge to Daemons. Partially because I think Heralds are the best way to run Daemons (plus Fatey)
2013/10/31 03:19:35
Subject: 2K Herald-Hammer Daemons vs Brothererekose's Mechdar + Imperial Guards
jifel wrote: I'll vote after we see Psychic powers, but I am currently giving the edge to Daemons. Partially because I think Heralds are the best way to run Daemons (plus Fatey)
Haha....I haven't even put up the poll yet.
I'll do so a little later on, after I go through my notes and fill in the blanks in my report. Writing it currently without my notes.
jifel wrote: I'll vote after we see Psychic powers, but I am currently giving the edge to Daemons. Partially because I think Heralds are the best way to run Daemons (plus Fatey)
Haha....I haven't even put up the poll yet.
I'll do so a little later on, after I go through my notes and fill in the blanks in my report. Writing it currently without my notes.
D'oh! I guess I'm just used to it with your BatReps. And hurry up!
2013/10/31 07:13:37
Subject: Re:2K Herald-Hammer Daemons vs Brothererekose's Mechdar + Imperial Guards
Codex powers, huh. Where is your opponent putting the Primaris Psyker?
Paradigm wrote: The key to being able to enjoy the game in real life and also be a member of this online community is to know where you draw the line. What someone online on the other side of the world that you've never met says should never deter you from taking a unit for being either weak or OP. The community is a great place to come for tactics advice, and there is a lot of very sound opinions and idea out there, but at the end of the day, play the game how you want to... Don't worry about the hordes of Dakka descending on your gaming club to arrest you for taking one heldrake or not using a screamerstar. Knowing the standard opinion (and that's all it is) on what is good/bad and conforming to that opinion religiously are two entirely separate things.
2013/10/31 14:28:29
Subject: 2K Herald-Hammer Daemons vs Brothererekose's Mechdar + Imperial Guards
Oh, BTW, did I forget to mention that we are playing the Scouring as Primary? That means all my ridiculously hard-to-kill Fast Attacks will be scoring.
That just about clinches it.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/10/31 14:31:40
Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General
2013/10/31 15:06:16
Subject: 2K Herald-Hammer Daemons vs Brothererekose's Mechdar + Imperial Guards
Oh, BTW, did I forget to mention that we are playing the Scouring as Primary? That means all my ridiculously hard-to-kill Fast Attacks will be scoring.
That just about clinches it.
Would it have influenced your decision if I told you I played badly? My opponent might have brought his B-game because he wasn't very familiar with my daemon build.....but I brought my C-game and made so many stupid errors in my games, like forgetting to deploy my Portaglyph, forgetting to cast any powers from my Slaaneshi Herald all game, bad positioning such that I wasn't able to use psychic powers/Grimoire on the units that I wanted, and many more? Must have been the fatigue from driving down to LA overnight, getting just a couple of hours of ZZZZ's, then going to work at 7AM and then playing right afterwards.
But I won't make any more excuses for my sloppy play.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, made a slight mistake. Actually, my daemons are going 1st. I will go back to fix it.
1st part of the report should be coming out tonight.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/31 21:45:38
I think the Eldar are going to struggle a bit here as the Daemons have them pinned in.
Of course this might change when the Warp Spiders and Vendettas turn up. Those units should be able to shred the flesh hounds and seekers while the serpent shields concentrate fire on the screamers to negate the cover save.
It is still going to be a hard fight for the Eldar tho imo as the daemons are already in their faces and they are relying on reserve rolls to get their units in quickly (and they don't have an Autarch to help with that).
I am thinking maybe the Eldar player should have turbo boosted his tanks to get out of the path of the daemons advance turn 1 but with the speed of the daemon fast attack it might not have worked.
Chaos Space Marines - Iron Warriors & Night Lords 7900pts
2013/11/01 12:09:51
Subject: 2K Herald-Hammer Daemons vs Brothererekose's Mechdar + Imperial Guards
After looking at the voting, I wonder why there is so little confidence in Eldar? Hmmmm.....
Shandara wrote: Backing up in the corner like a good little snack for the dogs, I see. Not that he has much choice.
Actually, he did. He could have spread out his serpents....though with my speed, I could still get to them quite easily.
Panzer1944 wrote: Ahh tomorrow, but I’m hyped up on candy now and need something to read since I have no plans to sleep anytime soon. I guess I shall endure.
Ah, missed you at the Kastle just last night. You missed a spectacular game with my daemons against the new and improved Sisters of Battle.
rohansoldier wrote: I think the Eldar are going to struggle a bit here as the Daemons have them pinned in.
Of course this might change when the Warp Spiders and Vendettas turn up. Those units should be able to shred the flesh hounds and seekers while the serpent shields concentrate fire on the screamers to negate the cover save.
It is still going to be a hard fight for the Eldar tho imo as the daemons are already in their faces and they are relying on reserve rolls to get their units in quickly (and they don't have an Autarch to help with that).
I am thinking maybe the Eldar player should have turbo boosted his tanks to get out of the path of the daemons advance turn 1 but with the speed of the daemon fast attack it might not have worked.
Just a hint of Turn 2, but his reserves do come in and he does try to move flat-out and escape my trap.
CaptainJay wrote: Jy2, you know you can use the Grimnoire at any point in the movement phase? So Turn 2 you should still be able to Grimnoire the hounds if you wanted.
I was still out of range because of the way I stupidly positioned my Grimoire. Instead of positioning him closest to the rest of my army, I actually positioned him farthest from it. It's what you call not paying attention because I'm not sure where my head was.
hippesthippo wrote: Seeing as how Screamerstar is prolly one of the two most hated units in the game right now, calling this a casual list is.. Odd.
Lol. Like I said in my last game, the only thing casual about my list is that it would "casually" destroy most army builds.
I'm beginning to find that this list is one of those few, non-spammy lists which is actually pretty nasty, much like Janthkin's bugs or Reece's footdar.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/01 14:50:48
It seems like in this report and others you are constantly getting off multi-assaults. Do you think thats largely due to better planning by you or failed planning by opponents. I realize that many of these games have been people castling against you which leads to more multi assault opportunities.
I'm not sure about Fateweaver's BS but 4D6str 5 is 14 shots, ~12 hits, 4 glance/pen, 2.66 failed invsv from War Walkers.
IIRC According to Frontline's Podcasts the tournament council agrees with you about the Screamer's Lamprey Bite and that's how it will be at all the major tournaments.
I really like the paint job on the Eldar Vehicles. Is it just me or are your daemons (in particular the Seekers) becoming more painted also? I like the purple Seekers against the black/grey basing. Both could be better or worse IRL vs pictures obv.
edit: fixed mathhammer
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/02 16:02:46
Would it have influenced your decision if I told you I played badly? My opponent might have brought his B-game because he wasn't very familiar with my daemon build.....but I brought my C-game and made so many stupid errors in my games, like forgetting to deploy my Portaglyph, forgetting to cast any powers from my Slaaneshi Herald all game, bad positioning such that I wasn't able to use psychic powers/Grimoire on the units that I wanted, and many more? Must have been the fatigue from driving down to LA overnight, getting just a couple of hours of ZZZZ's, then going to work at 7AM and then playing right afterwards.
But I won't make any more excuses for my sloppy play.
That is unfortunate to hear.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/01 23:30:09
Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General
Naw wrote: I wonder why everyone always deploys everything in one big group. In our friendly games we don't do that, we spread out. Why is that bad?
It's generally either about massing combat power or avoiding combat power. IE Force Concentration. If I'm focused and you're spread out, I have an advantage. 2k points is stronger than 700 points, no matter the Armies. There are times when spreading out is beneficial, but obviously not always (as you noticed).
Armies: Lokisons (The Rout), Sluts and Puppies: A Chaos Daemon Experience (Daemons), PDF of the Union of Surviving Slavic Regimes (Imperial Guard), The Dead Live! (Chaos Marines), Loke's Blokes (Orks), The Kabal of the Hidden Blade (DE)
eltrain728 wrote: It seems like in this report and others you are constantly getting off multi-assaults. Do you think thats largely do to better planning by you or failed planning by opponents. I realize that many of these games have been people castling against you which leads to more multi assault opportunities.
It's all about size and speed. When you have multiple large units that can move 12", are fleet, ignore terrain, and are on cavalry bases you can pretty much charge anything you want. I think Jy2 does a good job of keeping his units in a pretty loose formation that allows for multi-assaults, but it's 90% fleet, ignores terrain and cavalry bases.
eltrain728 wrote: It seems like in this report and others you are constantly getting off multi-assaults. Do you think thats largely do to better planning by you or failed planning by opponents. I realize that many of these games have been people castling against you which leads to more multi assault opportunities.
I'm not sure about Fateweaver's BS but 4D6str 5 is 14 shots, ~12 hits, 6 glance/pen, 4 failed invsv from War Walkers. So 2 dead not 3.
IIRC According to Frontline's Podcasts the tournament council agrees with you about the Screamer's Lamprey Bite and that's how it will be at all the major tournaments.
I really like the paint job on the Eldar Vehicles. Is it just me or are your daemons (in particular the Seekers) becoming more painted also? I like the purple Seekers against the black/grey basing. Both could be better or worse IRL vs pictures obv.
Multi-assaults are due to both. With large cavalry bases, I have a pretty wide threat range. If I spread out, there almost isn't any group of units I can't multi-assault unless they really spread out. Also, when facing my army, most opponents (at least so far) instinctively castle up, especially when I surround them on both sides with threats (I usually flank them so that they can't escape). Thus, it's actually hard not to get the multi-assault, unless my opponent gets a little creative with his deployments.
Yeah, I didn't actually do the math-hammer on Fateweaver vs the walkers. It was more of an exaggeration based on a better-than-average scenario with Fatey. BTW, your math is a little wrong. It's S5 vs AV10 and thus, about 4 glance/pens and 3 Hull Points of damage.
Actually my seekers were painted by Frontline Gaming. They do commission painting at a very reasonable price. You can check it out here:
Naw wrote: I wonder why everyone always deploys everything in one big group. In our friendly games we don't do that, we spread out. Why is that bad?
Guess it depends on the person.
But here's a little tip against daemons. Spread out against a good daemon player and he will destroy you. They will refuse flank your army and sweep through it from 1 side to the other. So it's kind of a damned-if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don't scenario. Castle up and get boxed in and multi-assaulted. Spread out and daemons will use their superior mobility to sweep through your army from 1 flank to the other.
Would it have influenced your decision if I told you I played badly? My opponent might have brought his B-game because he wasn't very familiar with my daemon build.....but I brought my C-game and made so many stupid errors in my games, like forgetting to deploy my Portaglyph, forgetting to cast any powers from my Slaaneshi Herald all game, bad positioning such that I wasn't able to use psychic powers/Grimoire on the units that I wanted, and many more? Must have been the fatigue from driving down to LA overnight, getting just a couple of hours of ZZZZ's, then going to work at 7AM and then playing right afterwards.
But I won't make any more excuses for my sloppy play.
That is unfortunate to hear.
No worries.
If my opponent had more experience against daemons, he could have really punished my army. Fortunately for me, however, he isn't very experienced against them.
Naw wrote: I wonder why everyone always deploys everything in one big group. In our friendly games we don't do that, we spread out. Why is that bad?
It's generally either about massing combat power or avoiding combat power. IE Force Concentration. If I'm focused and you're spread out, I have an advantage. 2k points is stronger than 700 points, no matter the Armies. There are times when spreading out is beneficial, but obviously not always (as you noticed).
Right. Spread out and I focus on a small portion of your army with a large portion of mine. The kicker here is that most armies won't be able to react in time and before you know it, you are already down a significant part of your army.
eltrain728 wrote: It seems like in this report and others you are constantly getting off multi-assaults. Do you think thats largely do to better planning by you or failed planning by opponents. I realize that many of these games have been people castling against you which leads to more multi assault opportunities.
It's all about size and speed. When you have multiple large units that can move 12", are fleet, ignore terrain, and are on cavalry bases you can pretty much charge anything you want. I think Jy2 does a good job of keeping his units in a pretty loose formation that allows for multi-assaults, but it's 90% fleet, ignores terrain and cavalry bases.
Can't be bothered to go through that mega quote with a mobile phone.
1) Of course deployment should take into account many variables but with Eldar's reach I try to deploy to a more loose position and still be able to affect a single target with all my shooting. And if that failed, it would give me options to manoeuver.
2) Vanguard strike was bad news for him as he went 2nd.
3) Why on earth did he leave the passengers in as the vehicles were going to be charged anyway? A couple of speedbumps would have been nice. Did WG have "flamers" by any chance?
Automatically Appended Next Post: 4) IG did not add anything especially going 2nd :(
5) Are Fiends waste of points? I have 3 unpainted.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/02 17:30:07
Naw wrote: Can't be bothered to go through that mega quote with a mobile phone.
1) Of course deployment should take into account many variables but with Eldar's reach I try to deploy to a more loose position and still be able to affect a single target with all my shooting. And if that failed, it would give me options to manoeuver.
2) Vanguard strike was bad news for him as he went 2nd.
3) Why on earth did he leave the passengers in as the vehicles were going to be charged anyway? A couple of speedbumps would have been nice. Did WG have "flamers" by any chance?
Automatically Appended Next Post: 4) IG did not add anything especially going 2nd :(
5) Are Fiends waste of points? I have 3 unpainted.
1. He wasn't sure how to play against my army. I guess he instinctively deployed in this fashion.
2. Vanguard strike is still slightly better than Dawn of War deployment against my army, though not by much.
3. I guess he didn't want me to multi-assault both his troops and their transports. One of the problems with regards to his army - and actually, this applies to most mechdar armies in general - is that it doesn't really have any speedbump units (except for the wraithknights, which he didn't take in this game). Basically, the wave serpents are the speedbumps. No, I don't believe his wraithguards were carrying d-scythes, but don't quote me on that. After playing against eldar 4 times in 2 days (and all with wraithguards), my memory is a little foggy, especially when trying to recall the little details.
Moreover, we are also playing Victory Points, which means screening units a liability in most cases.
4. IG almost took out Fatey, but I dodged a bullet there. I got lucky with his 5++ saves. But personally, I prefer the wraithknight + more eldars over the IG allies.
5. Fiends can be good. My friend, Janthkin, runs fiends in his Slaaneshi CSM/Daemons list and they normally do pretty good, even if they all usually die. They will f**k up psychic armies who aren't too familiar with them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/02 21:48:54
Naw wrote: 3) Just one unit spread out would do it. The rest could shoot, embark and get the hell out.
4) I don't think Eldar pair up with IG at all. There just isn't any synergy.
3. I don't disagree. It's just inexperience against my army.
4. There are 2 types of allies. One is the synergistic type such as what you normally find in Battle Brothers. The other is to just take the most efficient units in a dex to help fill a void (like taking necron allies in a GK army to get an annihilation barge). While the synergy in the 2nd type of army isn't as strong, it isn't completely devoid of synergy. He has a gap to fill and that gap is anti-air and anti-MC's (i.e. dreadknights, riptides, wraithknights). In this case, vendettas are a wonderful unit to take.
While this was a complete mistake-fest for both parties, jy2's claim that he made a bunch of them prolly only prevented an earlier tabling. My poor decisions out-stripped his in the overall outcome. I clearly earned the BoneHead-Trophy for this match.
1. I had won the dice off to go first, instead I yielded Turn 1 to jy2, thinking that on the objectives, I'd do better to go second, with the Vendettas maybe using Hover Mode and possibly protecting my fragile veterans. Nope! jy2's Screamers were going to gain their 2+ re-roll saves to Scatter Laser fire once they'd Turbo'd. If I had fired first on Turn 1, before the screamers moved, I might've knocked off a few more, possibly the unit and the MTO strategy would be a bit hampered.
2. Farseer in the car. Darn it, I keep leaving him in. Once the dogs and Slaany riders were in assault range, I decided to keep them in for safety. Would I have been better off getting them out? Dunno.
3. Deployment - already discussed. A decent spread of my units might've mitigated the initial crush of Turn 2.
4. War Walkers, Outflank? They would have lasted the one turn they arrived, but jy2 would have had to deal with a the WarpSpiders & WarWs, too.
5. I took the Warp Spiders the wrong direction once they'd shot the pinkies. I misjudged just how far they might get away from , although, at that point, jy2 had the game in hand.
6. Target Priority on the Vendettas. I dunno as if I'd used these best. Plus, the Primaris Psyker was probably under used. I like his Lightning, but I might be better off on the RB's powers.
Overall, I am a rtt vet, but not a good one. I have an abysmal track record (possibly becoming an infamously bad Track Record at this point). I can see game strategies far better from an arm-chair, but not so well on the field. jy2 is a GT level player, and even playing sloppily, he can easily beat me. *If* I am going to beat an opponent like this , I'll need:
a. great dice for me, bad for him. jy2 *did* have several Perils rolls early on, but he'd really started getting some great saves in Turns 3 & 4. Mine start going south a bit, but I don't recall as they were horrid in a lot of places
b. an air-tight, mistake free game, possibly sprinkled with a brilliant maneuver or two. Unless I can pull off some really clever tactic, a player like jy2 is going to play me like a coffee can.
I enjoyed the game and will happily play jy2 again, but for his entertainment, I hope I can bring a far better level of competition.
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Thanks for the comments, Casey. I will add it into my Post-game report.
Yeah, you did make a lot of mistakes as well, and your mistakes actually hurt you more than mine did. That is because my mistakes were little mistakes whereas your mistakes were more mistakes in strategy (which IMO are much more damaging). Yes, my MTO strategy is designed to induce strategical mistakes by my opponent due to the tremendous amount of pressure I can apply. There really isn't any way to avoid it except with experience (and even then, I am good at altering my strategy on the fly). The best thing to do against my army is just to learn from the experience. Then you will be better prepared against my army (or similar type armies) in the future, whether you probably realize it or not.
I'm going to hit my opponent with my entire army all at once so that, even if he does manage to take out one of my units (doubtful), I'm going to be assaulting with 2 units on Turn 2. I should have him trapped in his own deployment zone, thus allowing my troops to grab objectives. This should allow me to take the game. However, my opponent does have an x-factor - his warp spiders. If he reserves them and then deepstrike them into my deployment zone, then he has a chance to win. First of all, he can target my troops. Secondly, he will force me to double-back with one of my 
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7K Points of Black Legion and Daemons 
5K Points of Grey Knights and Red Hunters 
Cratfworld Alaitoc (
Order of the Red Mantle (
