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p5 -

Ahh dimensional Corridor, ok. Missed that the first couple times, my attention was probably drawn to the ones with invasion beam in the name and assuming there weren't others.

At what point/'s in the phase can that be used and how many times?

 Lothmar wrote:
p5 -

Ahh dimensional Corridor, ok. Missed that the first couple times, my attention was probably drawn to the ones with invasion beam in the name and assuming there weren't others.

At what point/'s in the phase can that be used and how many times?

At the start of your movement phase. The teleported unit counts as disembarked.

Ahh so same problem I felt was there before then with the mono's likely being destroyed before they can be used might be there. Though that's mostly my paranoia of 'yeah thats dangerous but I can cause a 1-2k force from being completely ineffectual if I destroy those instead~'. But at least I only need one to survive to pull it off.

Though I suppose I can hold two units off the board as well and invasion beam them in on their turn to draw more fire etc just in case. Plus if one does survive it'll only take me 1cp instead of 2 to get them both out.

Looks like this strat will eat up any/all of my CP for the game dependent on how extensively I do it...

 Lothmar wrote:
Ahh so same problem I felt was there before then with the mono's likely being destroyed before they can be used might be there. Though that's mostly my paranoia of 'yeah thats dangerous but I can cause a 1-2k force from being completely ineffectual if I destroy those instead~'. But at least I only need one to survive to pull it off.

Though I suppose I can hold two units off the board as well and invasion beam them in on their turn to draw more fire etc just in case. Plus if one does survive it'll only take me 1cp instead of 2 to get them both out.

Looks like this strat will eat up any/all of my CP for the game dependent on how extensively I do it...

If you tombworld a unit, you're encouraging him to take it out more. If you teleport the monolith in turn 2, other parts of your combined army are likely posing bigger threats than your underwhelming monolith and your warriors barely out of your deployment zone, that will reanimate any way. Or your slow foot slogging lychguard

 Lothmar wrote:
Ok as if Rp'ing I've gone dormant for a few months from the hobby but I feel I should make an appearance. A friend of mine and shop owner is having a Birthday event where it's him vs all comers so like 10k vs 5x 2k armies etc where the number is at least equal to what he's running but can be more if a lot of people show up and we all get the minimum point lists.

And as if to add extra spice to the deadline my computers down at home with my only copy of the codex as well as all my pregen lists and various notes on how things interacted in my own words so I could re-acclimate myself promptly.

Anywho I need help coming up with a list to aid our unholy alliance against some Imperial soup.

I only have intel that one player will probably be running demons and will be playing Red Boi and maybe Cat on a keyboard, the rest of the composition is unknown.

Another one or two will probably be doing Tau, most likely they'll combine points and work together with one running infantry and the other armor/railguns.

Maybe one imperial guard player, likely running knights squad (guy i went in on our box set with) too but that's all the players I know well enough to guess..

-------------

Part of me says sit back and see how long I can last by doing something basic like Artillery support with a pylon and a couple of doomsday arks and maybe some repair units. But I have vague recollection that our artillery is kind of 'meh' in the sense its a coin flip on if it works and then we see if enemy ignores it for whatever reason.

Another part of me says 'if you are going super heavy anyway go in your face' and run 1 or 2 Tessearct ark, (maybe 1 pylon with tp if I have the points) and deceiver and just deploy into max saturation for power effects to bukakke his army and leave it to everyone else to clean up. Though I'd never used TA even before so with my brain on reset mode this could get pretty difficult pretty fast.

Even if I felt like being the 'vanguard' (since meat shield isn't fitting for crons) for advancing forces I know I dont want to run over 100 infantry if only because of space concerns that and the time it'd take to move all of that.

Thoughts?

Tesseract Vaults are easy and fun to play. Necrons are more of a problem army than a solution army. Does your opponent have the firepower to take out an entire unit at a time? Or in this case does your opponent watch out for the 9" bubble smite. It should be really damn easy for your opponent to screen you out with Scouts if you're playing on less than three tables, even on four a screen of scouts stretching across the battlefield will make a Vault/Deceiver list relatively ineffective. I'd bring a Pylon definitely, you're sure to see some titanic action in a game this big. Taking a low-model count army is probably a good idea for time management purposes, you're probably not going to see the third turn anyway, but at least people won't be pointing at you when the game ends before it has begun. I would limit the amount of glasscannons I'd take in such a big battle, things like Destroyers don't have a chance at surviving in this sort of environment, so if I took those it would be as Nephrekh with DS. Depending on whether or not you each get +3 CP for battleforged I'd take a Sautekh WL.

I don't think our artillery is meh by any stretch, it's much better than silver tide definitely, which I would rank as the worst possible army you could bring to such a game. Nihilakh Spearhead Detachment 1 DDA, 2x1 Spyder with Fabricator Claw Array, 3 Scarabs, Cloaktek, Nihilakh Superheavy Detachment Pylon, 2 Tesseract Vaults would be my bet for the best army you could bring. It depends on what other allies you might get though, a melee strategy becomes much more appealing when your C'tan can hide behind a wave of Orks, they make much better meat shields than Praetorians do. In that case running a single Tesseract Ark with 5 shards would probably be good list as well.

 vict0988 wrote:

 Lothmar wrote:
Ok as if Rp'ing I've gone dormant for a few months from the hobby but I feel I should make an appearance. A friend of mine and shop owner is having a Birthday event where it's him vs all comers so like 10k vs 5x 2k armies etc where the number is at least equal to what he's running but can be more if a lot of people show up and we all get the minimum point lists.

And as if to add extra spice to the deadline my computers down at home with my only copy of the codex as well as all my pregen lists and various notes on how things interacted in my own words so I could re-acclimate myself promptly.

Anywho I need help coming up with a list to aid our unholy alliance against some Imperial soup.

I only have intel that one player will probably be running demons and will be playing Red Boi and maybe Cat on a keyboard, the rest of the composition is unknown.

Another one or two will probably be doing Tau, most likely they'll combine points and work together with one running infantry and the other armor/railguns.

Maybe one imperial guard player, likely running knights squad (guy i went in on our box set with) too but that's all the players I know well enough to guess..

-------------

Part of me says sit back and see how long I can last by doing something basic like Artillery support with a pylon and a couple of doomsday arks and maybe some repair units. But I have vague recollection that our artillery is kind of 'meh' in the sense its a coin flip on if it works and then we see if enemy ignores it for whatever reason.

Another part of me says 'if you are going super heavy anyway go in your face' and run 1 or 2 Tessearct ark, (maybe 1 pylon with tp if I have the points) and deceiver and just deploy into max saturation for power effects to bukakke his army and leave it to everyone else to clean up. Though I'd never used TA even before so with my brain on reset mode this could get pretty difficult pretty fast.

Even if I felt like being the 'vanguard' (since meat shield isn't fitting for crons) for advancing forces I know I dont want to run over 100 infantry if only because of space concerns that and the time it'd take to move all of that.

Thoughts?

Tesseract Arks are easy and fun to play. Necrons are more of a problem army than a solution army. Does your opponent have the firepower to take out an entire unit at a time? Or in this case does your opponent watch out for the 9" bubble smite. It should be really damn easy for your opponent to screen you out with Scouts if you're playing on less than three tables, even on four a screen of scouts stretching across the battlefield will make a Vault/Deceiver list relatively ineffective. I'd bring a Pylon definitely, you're sure to see some titanic action in a game this big. Taking a low-model count army is probably a good idea for time management purposes, you're probably not going to see the third turn anyway, but at least people won't be pointing at you when the game ends before it has begun. I would limit the amount of glasscannons I'd take in such a big battle, things like Destroyers don't have a chance at surviving in this sort of environment, so if I took those it would be as Nephrekh with DS. Depending on whether or not you each get +3 CP for battleforged I'd take a Sautekh WL.

I don't think our artillery is meh by any stretch, it's much better than silver tide definitely, which I would rank as the worst possible army you could bring to such a game. Nihilakh Spearhead Detachment 1 DDA, 2x1 Spyder with Fabricator Claw Array, 3 Scarabs, Cloaktek, Nihilakh Superheavy Detachment Pylon, 2 Tesseract Arks would be my bet for the best army you could bring. It depends on what other allies you might get though, a melee strategy becomes much more appealing when your C'tan can hide behind a wave of Orks, they make much better meat shields than Praetorians do. In that case running a single Tesseract Ark with 5 shards would probably be good list as well.

I’m assuming you mean Tesseract Vault, as the Ark is now rather subpar.

Hello all

I’m looking to start a necron army (normally play knights)

After reading the tactica thread and seeing numerous other lists

Here’s what I’ve come up with for c&c

Any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated

daismith906 wrote:
Hello all

I’m looking to start a necron army (normally play knights)

After reading the tactica thread and seeing numerous other lists

Here’s what I’ve come up with for c&c

Any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Spoiler:

Battalion

Dynasty sautekh

Overlord, voidscythe (warlord & hyperlogical strategiest)
cryptek, cloak

X5 immortals with telsa
X5 immortals with telsa
X5 immortals with telsa

Doomsday ark
Doomsday ark
Doomsday ark

Outrider detachment

Dynasty nephrek

Cryptek, the veil of darkness, chronometron

X4 Canoptek Wraiths
X6 destroyers
X6 destroyers

Total 1745pts

almost Like my old 2k list, but for 2k added the deciver and two more wraiths.

went 4-1 at a tournament, though did get unlucky with the doomsdays against a magnus/knight list.

 Lothmar wrote:
Ahh so same problem I felt was there before then with the mono's likely being destroyed before they can be used might be there. Though that's mostly my paranoia of 'yeah thats dangerous but I can cause a 1-2k force from being completely ineffectual if I destroy those instead~'. But at least I only need one to survive to pull it off.

Though I suppose I can hold two units off the board as well and invasion beam them in on their turn to draw more fire etc just in case. Plus if one does survive it'll only take me 1cp instead of 2 to get them both out.

Looks like this strat will eat up any/all of my CP for the game dependent on how extensively I do it...

Using Tomb World deployment always seems way too risky for me to even try it, it makes the monolith such an obvious target.

Two monoliths deepstriking on turn 2 would give you a good chance of having one left on turn 3, and you can use the Emergency Invasion Beam strat to bring one unit in if they are both destroyed. 2 Monoliths is very expensive though, and you wouldn't be bringing anything through them till turn 3.

Using the Deceiver to advance Deploy a Monolith, and then using the Dimensional Corridor strat on a unit already on the board lets you have something teleport in on turn 1. You also have a 50/50 chance of going first meaning your opponent can't do anything about it. 50/50 is still very risky though.

The best way to guarantee you can teleport a unit in someones face is to take a character with the Veil of Darkness Relic. If you want to teleport a CC unit, and guarantee a charge, you need a character with the Veil to teleport Zandrekh, then have Obyron teleport the CC unit in front of them (3" from the target). This is obviously a very expensive trick as it uses up 3 HQs. To prevent it from being horribly inefficient you need to make more use of those HQs.
I did this quite well recently by taking a "normal" list of Immortals, Destroyers, and Doomsday Arks, supported by buffs from a Cryptek with Veil, Zandrekh, and Obyron. I had a full unit of Lychguard stood behind the Immortals and, when the time was right, teleported them into combat with the 3 HQs. So the characters were doing standard buffing work first to get more out of them.

An alternative strategy might be to use these 3 characters to teleport a big Lychguard into combat turn 1, then deepstrike a unit of 20 Flayed ones in nearby on turn 2. Obyron can then run to the flayed ones and teleport them to Zandrekh to avoid having to charge 9".
So the play would be:

Deployment:

Veil Tek, Zandrekh, Obyron, 10 Scytheguard all deploy together hiding in a corner. 20 Flayed one are kept in deepstrike reserve.

Turn1:

Zandrekh puts MWBD and a random buff on the Lychguard.
Veil-Tek teleports himself and Zandrekh 9" from the enemy.
Obyron teleports himself and the Scytheguard 6" in front of Zan (3" form charge target)
Lychguard charge.

Turn 2:

20 Flayed ones Deepstrike as close as possible to Obyron.
Obyron advances towards Flayed ones (5"+D6" +6" range on the Ghostwalk mantle so 14.5" average, makes this fairly easy)
Zandrekh advances towards another charge target.
Obyron teleports himself and the Flayed ones 6" ahead of Zan for another short charge.

This seems like a good way to get extra use out of the teleporting trio past the first turn trick. They shove 2 units into combat, have plenty of crons to buff for the rest of the game, and can potentially keep pulling the FO/Lguard out of combat and sending them back in. Using Lychguard with shields increases the chances of the characters still being around to help the Flayed Ones on turn 2 (especially with the +1 invul Sv. strat) but reduces the power of the first turn gut punch.

Edit: The turn 2 description is slightly out of sequence as the Flayed ones don't deepstrike until after Zan and Oby have made their moves, but you get the idea.

He's playing as one out of 5 2k armies against a birthday kid's 10k army.

Coming in turn 2-3 means most big things have hot themselves to pieces, and are likely more focused on finishing the last few wounds on big things than taking on new, relatively harmless, Monoliths.

A few warriors or flayed ones lurking deep in their own deployment zone won't be perceived as a big threat either, its the perfect deception!

In that case showing up late to the war sounds like a good idea. American style!

Shaelinith wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
Played a game this weekend. Correct me if I am wrong, but the changes to the FLY keyword and how it doesn't work in charges does NOT impact our Wraiths. Is this correct?

Sadly Wraiths received the same treatment (see necron FAQ) as the harlequins.

Per FAQ

"During the Movement phase, models in this unit can move
across models and terrain as if they were not there.
Models in this unit can shoot and charge even if they
Fell Back this turn."


So can they still charge over models in the fight phase or no?

 Dynas wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
Played a game this weekend. Correct me if I am wrong, but the changes to the FLY keyword and how it doesn't work in charges does NOT impact our Wraiths. Is this correct?

Sadly Wraiths received the same treatment (see necron FAQ) as the harlequins.

Per FAQ

"During the Movement phase, models in this unit can move
across models and terrain as if they were not there.
Models in this unit can shoot and charge even if they
Fell Back this turn."


So can they still charge over models in the fight phase or no?

No, because it specifies in the Movement phase. The Fight phase is not the Movement phase.

daismith906 wrote:
Hello all

I’m looking to start a necron army (normally play knights)

After reading the tactica thread and seeing numerous other lists

Here’s what I’ve come up with for c&c

Any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Spoiler:

Battalion

Dynasty sautekh

Overlord, voidscythe (warlord & hyperlogical strategiest)
cryptek, cloak

X5 immortals with telsa
X5 immortals with telsa
X5 immortals with telsa

Doomsday ark
Doomsday ark
Doomsday ark

Outrider detachment

Dynasty nephrek

Cryptek, the veil of darkness, chronometron

X4 Canoptek Wraiths
X6 destroyers
X6 destroyers

Total 1745pts

Looks solid. May want to pick up some scarabs for cheap objective grabbers if you play a 2k list.

 Dynas wrote:

daismith906 wrote:
Hello all

I’m looking to start a necron army (normally play knights)

After reading the tactica thread and seeing numerous other lists

Here’s what I’ve come up with for c&c

Any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Spoiler:

Battalion

Dynasty sautekh

Overlord, voidscythe (warlord & hyperlogical strategiest)
cryptek, cloak

X5 immortals with telsa
X5 immortals with telsa
X5 immortals with telsa

Doomsday ark
Doomsday ark
Doomsday ark

Outrider detachment

Dynasty nephrek

Cryptek, the veil of darkness, chronometron

X4 Canoptek Wraiths
X6 destroyers
X6 destroyers

Total 1745pts

Looks solid. May want to pick up some scarabs for cheap objective grabbers if you play a 2k list.

Also, depending on your local meta, they make EXCELLENT smite sponges.

So I've been making a new list and it occurred to me that perhaps the Destroyer Lord isn't getting enough credit. Yes, his buff isn't great, but its evident that he's intended to be a beat stick type character, and if you use him to baby sit destroyers you are using him wrong.
It would seem that the reroll to wound buff in the shooting phase is to soften up a target so the D Lord and friends can charge it.
It makes no sense to grade him according to his buff when that's not his intended role.

If you look at a D Lord's stat line, its actually better than the Overlord's. Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd. He has higher toughness, higher wounds, higher movement and an extra attack. He's cheaper than a CCB, which has 1 less attack, the same toughness and no invul.

He's the only HQ who can take a phylactery, which increases his resilience a bit and allows him to take a Nanoscarab casket, which starts off as a 4+, but if you burn 2 CP you can increase it to nearly 90% (Res strat + reroll strat)
If you take the nightmare shroud, you can instead have a model with a 2+/3++ save that regens D3 wounds a turn. That's pretty tanky.

If you give him Eternal Madness + Novokh trait + Blood Scythe, you can have a character with 5-7 warscythe attacks that rerolls all hits and wounds on the charge, and in subsequent fight phases can reroll 1s to hit to keep up the pressure.
If you swap out the Blood Scythe for a Voidreaper you have less attacks, but you now wound on 2+ against non-vehicles.
It really depends on what you're fighting; if you expecting to go up against light infantry to medium infantry and vehicles, the blood scythe is good, as the extra attacks would be useful at thinning the hoard and the 3 damage from the reaper would be wasted on infantry with 1-2 wounds.
If you are expecting to go up against monsters, heavy vehicles and infantry with at least 3 wounds, the voidreaper is better.

Yes, he can't take a void scythe (which is dumb), but if you are taking a relic scythe you wouldn't be getting that anyway.

Yes, it does suck that Destroyers can't take good melee weapons so you can't have a nice Destroyer murder squad, but his buff only works in the shooting phase anyway, and Destroyers aren't that terrible in CC, especially if you take the destroyer lord with them to deal with harder targets.

This is all theory crafting and I'll have to run some games first, but I do think the D Lord should be given a bit more consideration in list building.

Speaking of HQs, I'm really liking the Canoptek Cloak cryptek more than the Chronotek. The 5++ invul buff is only really worth it if you are baby sitting a warrior blob due to its short range, and that extra mobility allows the cryptek to get in position to heal vehicles or buff RP. If RP could be taken at the end of the turn instead at the beginning, that would make it so much better.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So I've been making a new list and it occurred to me that perhaps the Destroyer Lord isn't getting enough credit. Yes, his buff isn't great, but its evident that he's intended to be a beat stick type character, and if you use him to baby sit destroyers you are using him wrong.
It would seem that the reroll to wound buff in the shooting phase is to soften up a target so the D Lord and friends can charge it.
It makes no sense to grade him according to his buff when that's not his intended role.

If you look at a D Lord's stat line, its actually better than the Overlord's. Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd. He has higher toughness, higher wounds, higher movement and an extra attack. He's cheaper than a CCB, which has 1 less attack, the same toughness and no invul.

He's the only HQ who can take a phylactery, which increases his resilience a bit and allows him to take a Nanoscarab casket, which starts off as a 4+, but if you burn 2 CP you can increase it to nearly 90% (Res strat + reroll strat)
If you take the nightmare shroud, you can instead have a model with a 2+/3++ save that regens D3 wounds a turn. That's pretty tanky.

If you give him Eternal Madness + Novokh trait + Blood Scythe, you can have a character with 5-7 warscythe attacks that rerolls all hits and wounds on the charge, and in subsequent fight phases can reroll 1s to hit to keep up the pressure.
If you swap out the Blood Scythe for a Voidreaper you have less attacks, but you now wound on 2+ against non-vehicles.
It really depends on what you're fighting; if you expecting to go up against light infantry to medium infantry and vehicles, the blood scythe is good, as the extra attacks would be useful at thinning the hoard and the 3 damage from the reaper would be wasted on infantry with 1-2 wounds.
If you are expecting to go up against monsters, heavy vehicles and infantry with at least 3 wounds, the voidreaper is better.

Yes, he can't take a void scythe (which is dumb), but if you are taking a relic scythe you wouldn't be getting that anyway.

Yes, it does suck that Destroyers can't take good melee weapons so you can't have a nice Destroyer murder squad, but his buff only works in the shooting phase anyway, and Destroyers aren't that terrible in CC, especially if you take the destroyer lord with them to deal with harder targets.

This is all theory crafting and I'll have to run some games first, but I do think the D Lord should be given a bit more consideration in list building.

It's fine and all, bit I tend not to leave home without an MWBD source and he's competing with that spot.

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So I've been making a new list and it occurred to me that perhaps the Destroyer Lord isn't getting enough credit. Yes, his buff isn't great, but its evident that he's intended to be a beat stick type character, and if you use him to baby sit destroyers you are using him wrong.
It would seem that the reroll to wound buff in the shooting phase is to soften up a target so the D Lord and friends can charge it.
It makes no sense to grade him according to his buff when that's not his intended role.

If you look at a D Lord's stat line, its actually better than the Overlord's. Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd. He has higher toughness, higher wounds, higher movement and an extra attack. He's cheaper than a CCB, which has 1 less attack, the same toughness and no invul.

He's the only HQ who can take a phylactery, which increases his resilience a bit and allows him to take a Nanoscarab casket, which starts off as a 4+, but if you burn 2 CP you can increase it to nearly 90% (Res strat + reroll strat)
If you take the nightmare shroud, you can instead have a model with a 2+/3++ save that regens D3 wounds a turn. That's pretty tanky.

If you give him Eternal Madness + Novokh trait + Blood Scythe, you can have a character with 5-7 warscythe attacks that rerolls all hits and wounds on the charge, and in subsequent fight phases can reroll 1s to hit to keep up the pressure.
If you swap out the Blood Scythe for a Voidreaper you have less attacks, but you now wound on 2+ against non-vehicles.
It really depends on what you're fighting; if you expecting to go up against light infantry to medium infantry and vehicles, the blood scythe is good, as the extra attacks would be useful at thinning the hoard and the 3 damage from the reaper would be wasted on infantry with 1-2 wounds.
If you are expecting to go up against monsters, heavy vehicles and infantry with at least 3 wounds, the voidreaper is better.

Yes, he can't take a void scythe (which is dumb), but if you are taking a relic scythe you wouldn't be getting that anyway.

Yes, it does suck that Destroyers can't take good melee weapons so you can't have a nice Destroyer murder squad, but his buff only works in the shooting phase anyway, and Destroyers aren't that terrible in CC, especially if you take the destroyer lord with them to deal with harder targets.

This is all theory crafting and I'll have to run some games first, but I do think the D Lord should be given a bit more consideration in list building.

It's fine and all, bit I tend not to leave home without an MWBD source and he's competing with that spot.

Take both then. You do need 2 HQs for a battalion after all
I don't actually use MWBD that often, as strange as it sounds.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So I've been making a new list and it occurred to me that perhaps the Destroyer Lord isn't getting enough credit. Yes, his buff isn't great, but its evident that he's intended to be a beat stick type character, and if you use him to baby sit destroyers you are using him wrong.
It would seem that the reroll to wound buff in the shooting phase is to soften up a target so the D Lord and friends can charge it.
It makes no sense to grade him according to his buff when that's not his intended role.

If you look at a D Lord's stat line, its actually better than the Overlord's. Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd. He has higher toughness, higher wounds, higher movement and an extra attack. He's cheaper than a CCB, which has 1 less attack, the same toughness and no invul.

He's the only HQ who can take a phylactery, which increases his resilience a bit and allows him to take a Nanoscarab casket, which starts off as a 4+, but if you burn 2 CP you can increase it to nearly 90% (Res strat + reroll strat)
If you take the nightmare shroud, you can instead have a model with a 2+/3++ save that regens D3 wounds a turn. That's pretty tanky.

If you give him Eternal Madness + Novokh trait + Blood Scythe, you can have a character with 5-7 warscythe attacks that rerolls all hits and wounds on the charge, and in subsequent fight phases can reroll 1s to hit to keep up the pressure.
If you swap out the Blood Scythe for a Voidreaper you have less attacks, but you now wound on 2+ against non-vehicles.
It really depends on what you're fighting; if you expecting to go up against light infantry to medium infantry and vehicles, the blood scythe is good, as the extra attacks would be useful at thinning the hoard and the 3 damage from the reaper would be wasted on infantry with 1-2 wounds.
If you are expecting to go up against monsters, heavy vehicles and infantry with at least 3 wounds, the voidreaper is better.

Yes, he can't take a void scythe (which is dumb), but if you are taking a relic scythe you wouldn't be getting that anyway.

Yes, it does suck that Destroyers can't take good melee weapons so you can't have a nice Destroyer murder squad, but his buff only works in the shooting phase anyway, and Destroyers aren't that terrible in CC, especially if you take the destroyer lord with them to deal with harder targets.

This is all theory crafting and I'll have to run some games first, but I do think the D Lord should be given a bit more consideration in list building.

It's fine and all, bit I tend not to leave home without an MWBD source and he's competing with that spot.

Take both then. You do need 2 HQs for a battalion after all
I don't actually use MWBD that often, as strange as it sounds.

It's not strange. Tesla immortals are decent on their own.

The OL/CCB are versatile though. The DLord is a one-trick smaller horse-like being. A lone DLord does not a flank make. You'd likely want to accompany him with wraiths, perhaps a tomb blade wing, or something to make the enemy chose targets and something for him to redce the CC threat against. And now you're building around him, not with him. But yeah, when you have those components in your army, he certainly fits like a glove.

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So I've been making a new list and it occurred to me that perhaps the Destroyer Lord isn't getting enough credit. Yes, his buff isn't great, but its evident that he's intended to be a beat stick type character, and if you use him to baby sit destroyers you are using him wrong.
It would seem that the reroll to wound buff in the shooting phase is to soften up a target so the D Lord and friends can charge it.
It makes no sense to grade him according to his buff when that's not his intended role.

If you look at a D Lord's stat line, its actually better than the Overlord's. Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd. He has higher toughness, higher wounds, higher movement and an extra attack. He's cheaper than a CCB, which has 1 less attack, the same toughness and no invul.

He's the only HQ who can take a phylactery, which increases his resilience a bit and allows him to take a Nanoscarab casket, which starts off as a 4+, but if you burn 2 CP you can increase it to nearly 90% (Res strat + reroll strat)
If you take the nightmare shroud, you can instead have a model with a 2+/3++ save that regens D3 wounds a turn. That's pretty tanky.

If you give him Eternal Madness + Novokh trait + Blood Scythe, you can have a character with 5-7 warscythe attacks that rerolls all hits and wounds on the charge, and in subsequent fight phases can reroll 1s to hit to keep up the pressure.
If you swap out the Blood Scythe for a Voidreaper you have less attacks, but you now wound on 2+ against non-vehicles.
It really depends on what you're fighting; if you expecting to go up against light infantry to medium infantry and vehicles, the blood scythe is good, as the extra attacks would be useful at thinning the hoard and the 3 damage from the reaper would be wasted on infantry with 1-2 wounds.
If you are expecting to go up against monsters, heavy vehicles and infantry with at least 3 wounds, the voidreaper is better.

Yes, he can't take a void scythe (which is dumb), but if you are taking a relic scythe you wouldn't be getting that anyway.

Yes, it does suck that Destroyers can't take good melee weapons so you can't have a nice Destroyer murder squad, but his buff only works in the shooting phase anyway, and Destroyers aren't that terrible in CC, especially if you take the destroyer lord with them to deal with harder targets.

This is all theory crafting and I'll have to run some games first, but I do think the D Lord should be given a bit more consideration in list building.

It's fine and all, bit I tend not to leave home without an MWBD source and he's competing with that spot.

Take both then. You do need 2 HQs for a battalion after all
I don't actually use MWBD that often, as strange as it sounds.

It's not strange. Tesla immortals are decent on their own.

The OL/CCB are versatile though. The DLord is a one-trick smaller horse-like being. A lone DLord does not a flank make. You'd likely want to accompany him with wraiths, perhaps a tomb blade wing, or something to make the enemy chose targets and something for him to redce the CC threat against. And now you're building around him, not with him. But yeah, when you have those components in your army, he certainly fits like a glove.

My favorite list contains a Novokh Outrider detachment of just melee units, D-lord, Wraiths and Scarabs.

The D-Lord uses the Novokh trait (Awakened By Murder) + Crimson Haze + Blood Scythe.

His movement lets him stay around the Wraiths/Scarabs as they push forward and Awakened By Murder helps the Wraiths/Scarabs make their attacks connect more often along with the possible Bonus attacks from Crimson Haze (which are also re-rollable).

The rest of the army is usually either a Mephrit or Sautekh Battalion that is pure shooting with the Overlord/Cryptek.

I like to use the voidscythe with my dlord. With the entropic strike stratagem i can do 3 damage pretty safely, against anything that is not a vehicle, irrespective of toughness. Hitting on 3+, re-rolling 1, and wounding on 2. AP-4 means only units with a 2+ sv get a chance to avoid it. Nice against enemy characters.

My D Lord is my most used HQ. I'll even run 2, both with Phylactery, one with the Blood Scythe, one with Voidreaper, wrap the two in a wraith squad, then wrap the Wraiths in many huge Scarab squads, add in 6 Spyders on full advance to keep rebuilding the Scarabs. Run Novokh, send the whole death ball to tie up and kill things as the rest of my army (mostly Warriors and 6 Sentry Pylons, with cloaktek, running Sauketh) takes objectives, or gets into gauss range.

 Blndmage wrote:
My D Lord is my most used HQ. I'll even run 2, both with Phylactery, one with the Blood Scythe, one with Voidreaper, wrap the two in a wraith squad, then wrap the Wraiths in many huge Scarab squads, add in 6 Spyders on full advance to keep rebuilding the Scarabs. Run Novokh, send the whole death ball to tie up and kill things as the rest of my army (mostly Warriors and 6 Sentry Pylons, with cloaktek, running Sauketh) takes objectives, or gets into gauss range.

That's kinda hilarious, does it work well?

torblind wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
My D Lord is my most used HQ. I'll even run 2, both with Phylactery, one with the Blood Scythe, one with Voidreaper, wrap the two in a wraith squad, then wrap the Wraiths in many huge Scarab squads, add in 6 Spyders on full advance to keep rebuilding the Scarabs. Run Novokh, send the whole death ball to tie up and kill things as the rest of my army (mostly Warriors and 6 Sentry Pylons, with cloaktek, running Sauketh) takes objectives, or gets into gauss range.

That's kinda hilarious, does it work well?

Honestly?
I lose more than I win, but it's the kind of army I've wanted since I started in 3rd, with the new detachments, I can finally run what I have the way I want instead of being boxed on. The Rule of 2/3/4 really messed up my Scarabs. I've got 5 full squads.

Running full sized Scarab swarms as Novokh, with the Novokh Warlord trait has made them amazing. Novokh was the only Dynasty I played for a while, I'm only now trying others, or multipule detachments with differing Dynasties. I'd rather run all one, so the whole list can support itself, evenrything can back everything. I also try to fill datchments as best I can before starting another.

I haven't gotten a single new unit. Even my Wraiths and Spyders are the metal ones. A predynastic army, still in service to the C'tan. I wish the old Spyders weren't so pricey. I'd love a full set of nine, or more!

Oldcrons Forever!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd.

You know, I agree with most of your post, but this in particular is extremely funny to me given that basically every other faction gives their melee monster HQ's 2+ WS and reroll 1's to hit. Being "pretty absurd" isn't stopping Daemon Princes from never missing with their 7 S7 (or 8 S9, with a psychic power) attacks.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd.

You know, I agree with most of your post, but this in particular is extremely funny to me given that basically every other faction gives their melee monster HQ's 2+ WS and reroll 1's to hit. Being "pretty absurd" isn't stopping Daemon Princes from never missing with their 7 S7 (or 8 S9, with a psychic power) attacks.

well they'd bump him in price then. can't he fit his niche if they just keep fixing the game?

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd.

You know, I agree with most of your post, but this in particular is extremely funny to me given that basically every other faction gives their melee monster HQ's 2+ WS and reroll 1's to hit. Being "pretty absurd" isn't stopping Daemon Princes from never missing with their 7 S7 (or 8 S9, with a psychic power) attacks.

I was literally about to post this verbatim. How many armies can claim to have a melee HQ that doesn't hit on a 2+?

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd.

You know, I agree with most of your post, but this in particular is extremely funny to me given that basically every other faction gives their melee monster HQ's 2+ WS and reroll 1's to hit. Being "pretty absurd" isn't stopping Daemon Princes from never missing with their 7 S7 (or 8 S9, with a psychic power) attacks.

...Oh yeah, that's true. Wtf, GW.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd.

You know, I agree with most of your post, but this in particular is extremely funny to me given that basically every other faction gives their melee monster HQ's 2+ WS and reroll 1's to hit. Being "pretty absurd" isn't stopping Daemon Princes from never missing with their 7 S7 (or 8 S9, with a psychic power) attacks.

...Oh yeah, that's true. Wtf, GW.

But nearly all of these HQs are more expensive, right? Not saying we couldn't use a better and more expensive CC HQ, but that's the lay of the land, right?

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yes, he's 3+ to hit, but keep in mind that he rerolls 1s to hit, and making him 2+ with such rerolls would be pretty absurd.

You know, I agree with most of your post, but this in particular is extremely funny to me given that basically every other faction gives their melee monster HQ's 2+ WS and reroll 1's to hit. Being "pretty absurd" isn't stopping Daemon Princes from never missing with their 7 S7 (or 8 S9, with a psychic power) attacks.

...Oh yeah, that's true. Wtf, GW.

But nearly all of these HQs are more expensive, right? Not saying we couldn't use a better and more expensive CC HQ, but that's the lay of the land, right?

That depends, don't Space Marine characters hit on 2+s with rerolls? How much are they?
Then again, they aren't as fast, but still.