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To simplify calculation of blast weapon effectiveness when comparing to other weapons: In practice and assuming your opponent space out his/her models properly, what is the No of hits you get *on average* from a

1. Small blast marker,

2. Large blast marker?

 

Dakka generally agrees upon 1 ? arguing that a properly prepared opponent will never allow his troops to be close enough to one another to get the required 50% of the base under the template.

In my experience, this isn't true. I tend to find the number is nearer 1 and two partials, when in cover, and 1 and 1 partial out of cover.

This will depend upon whether your opponent is going to argue the call (c.f. the '47% argument') and generally be a git; or is really more concerned with having a bit of fun.

If you're using the statistics for mathematical purposes, I'd recommend that you simply use 1 as your baseline ? it's pessimistic, but foolproof.

If you're willing to allow a slight inaccuracy on your part, go for 1.5.

If you want somewhere in between these figures, try 1.5 for the first two blast templates fired from a unit in a volley, and 1 for further shots. There's no magical reason for this, but the more blast markers you hit a unit with, the less effective they become.

As to the large blast marker... this is far more variable, anywhere between 3 and 10 in my experience. Four is a good starting point for mathematical calculations.

Ummm, 50%?

Where exactly does it define a partial as 50% of the base or more?

Am I totally blind (a valid possiblilty) or what?


In my experience, no one ever takes the time to space their units at maximum coherency, unless the units in question are small stand-and-shoot units. Of course, I haven't played any tournaments either.

Normally I get 2 partials for a small template, and 4 for a large. I'd say that's a good average to work with, depending on your playing environment.

Am I totally blind (a valid possiblilty) or what?

No. I've never seen the rule either. You know what that means?

"That you're ignorant!"

No. The correct answer is: it means that the rule doesn't exist. Because bigchris and page 30 of the rulebook say so.

I hate when people ride the rules to death.... Ok here,
Billy: I shoot and kill 3 marines
Johny: No you don't the rulebook says on page 152 section 2 article 3 ammendment 7 that if I'm 12 inches away from a tree I get to get a 2+ save if my armor is the same colour as said tree!
Billy: Nuh uh
Johny: Yuh hu
Billy: <Punches Johny across his little b*tch face> What do your rules say now?
Johny: That I get a free 6 inch move
Billy: <Stabs Johny with hobby knife> Look what Games Workshop has done to us!

In conclusion, don't rule jockey, because someone will try to shank you, and by the way, it's 1 and 2 partials for small template, and depends on what kind of army you play against using the large 1, maybe 4 and a partial on marines, maybe 8 to 10 playing guard or orks.

Dude, what are you talking about?

Dude, what are you talking about?

Good question.

Oh sorry I left 1 part out, what I am saying is a complaint about people with that coherency rule and spread out to the max and try to jockey rules to get out of a big blast hit essentially. Yeah, that was it.

what I am saying is a complaint about people with that coherency rule and spread out to the max and try to jockey rules to get out of a big blast hit essentially

It's bad to try to legally keep your troops from getting killed. I see.

Hey, anyone who can max their coherency, and do so without slowing the game down, totally rock in my book!

In a world where coke cans and pie plates fall from the heavens, spreading out is just plain smart.

Oh sorry I left 1 part out, what I am saying is a complaint about people with that coherency rule and spread out to the max and try to jockey rules to get out of a big blast hit essentially. Yeah, that was it.

BS, it´s good tactics to spread out and minimize the casulties. Why should I make it easier for my opponent and bunch up..?

You make a good point, I understand if you are able to spread without slowing the game, but I'm talking about the people who literally measure between each model. I do get your point though.

We play that it the whole model is under it's a hit and if any part of the model is under the template, but not fully it's a partial, the flamers hits everything it touches fully under or not..... so along the same lines if it's not fully under, but under it's a partial.

Ok Wolf Lord, you use a whirlwind, I'll play guard, and every turn i will measure 2 inches between each of my 172 guys in a 1500 point game, see how long deployment takes, then tell me you still want to play up to my first movement phase.

Ok Wolf Lord, you use a whirlwind, I'll play guard, and every turn i will measure 2 inches between each of my 172 guys in a 1500 point game, see how long deployment takes, then tell me you still want to play up to my first movement phase.

Why would your 172 model guard army ever move?

"Battlebrothers, there is an artillary barage on it's way. By the Codex Astartes, we must group hug at the point of impact!"

Brilliant!

How is spreading your troops out to avoid blowing up bad sportsmanship?

"Why would your 172 model guard army ever move?"

He plays assaulty guard ofcourse

He plays assaulty guard ofcourse

That's so absurd it's almost sig-worthy.

If I saw my opponent was being ehh less than civil towards me, if he was pompus, bragging or saying how bad he is going to beat me, I would personally measure 2 inches between every one of the 172 troops; not because I normally move, but rather to make this person sorry for aggrivating me haha.

Posted By Hoj on 04/04/2006 12:59 PM
If I saw my opponent was being ehh less than civil towards me, if he was pompus, bragging or saying how bad he is going to beat me, I would personally measure 2 inches between every one of the 172 troops; not because I normally move, but rather to make this person sorry for aggrivating me haha.

Bragging about being a bad sport? Have fun with that.

No not a bad sport, just a person who will jockey the rules as much as my opponent, if he lays into me about a tilt roll, or if he is generally relying on the rules tothe letter to make up for either lack of skill or just so that 1 extra gaurdsman doesn't die, I will also utilize the rules to the fullest, spreading out each troop 2 inches.

Wow, anybody remember when this thread was on topic?

Anywho, feel free to carry on...

Definition of irony: A player complaining about bad sportsmanship, then admitting he would intentionally ruin a game just because his opponent said something he didn't like.

For a big blast, I'd assume 5 hits (4 complete + 2 partials, or 3 complete + 4 partials is pretty typical.) For a small blast, 1.5 hits.

In practice, spreading your army out the full distance isn't always practical. Various problems get in the way including line of sight considerations, getting the optimum number of models into combat, getting half the unt into cover, deep striking, horde units, laziness etc etc.