Does Vulkan make combi- meltas firing as bolters re-roll a failed to-hit roll?

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**Sir Arun**

page 112 of the Space Marines codex: if I choose to fire a combi-melta as a bolter, can I re-roll one failed to-hit roll?

**B0B MaRlEy**

Unlike other rules in the codex, this one doesn't specify only one part of the combi-melta gets the re-roll. So it would seem the bolter part gets mastercrafted too.

**Neorealist**

Yes it does, excellent find.

**grendel083**

Yes it does.
Clearly not the intent, and expect your opponent to never play you again if you try it though.

**Sir Arun**

grendel083 wrote:
Yes it does.
Clearly not the intent, and expect your opponent to never play you again if you try it though.

Sallies are master artisans after all, so I dont see the problem.

**grendel083**

Not master artisans of Boltguns however.

**Ashiraya**

grendel083 wrote:
Not master artisans of Boltguns however.

Page 57 in the codex is dedicated to showing how masterfully made their boltguns are.

**grendel083**

And yet the rule doesn't apply to a standard Boltgun, does it?

**CrashCanuck**

I have to play Devils Advocate here, it can if the standard bolter is in the hands of a character

**Elric Greywolf**

grendel083 wrote:
Yes it does.
Clearly not the intent, and expect your opponent to never play you again if you try it though.

How many re-rolls through the course of a game is the Amphibian player gonna get from this? 20-30 if ALL his Sarges and HQs have combis, AND he's in half range every time, AND he misses every time? (And he's also not shooting the better (melta) half, since that unquestionably gets re-rolls.) If the opponent refuses to ever play him again because of a few bolter re-rolls, then maybe the Salamander won't want to play such a poor sport.

Someone wanna crunch those numbers? Exactly how many re-rolls on the bolter half of a combi- could the Salamander expect to get, both reasonably and if he just really did it every possible chance. And how much potential would he be wasting by not shooting the melta he paid to take?

**CrashCanuck**

Generally when i've thought of doing a Salamanders list I've only been concerned with making sure Sternguard had the combi-meltas to make use of this, otherwise I haven't worried about it.

**Quanar**

Until FAQ'd otherwise I'll be letting my opponents re-roll the bolter part too. If they had wanted to exclude the bolter part they have shown that they can (in other special rules).

As mentioned, Sallies are master craftsmen, and would obviously (IMHO) lavish time as much time on the whole of a combi-weapon as a 'normal' melta, without necessarily spending ages on 'normal' boltguns.

That's my fluff reasoning anyways, feel free to ignore me.

**nutty_nutter**

grendel083 wrote:
And yet the rule doesn't apply to a standard Boltgun, does it?

yes it does bud, its master crafting the weapon as a whole, the is no differentiating factor on the rule for the weapon.

master crafting alone however only allows a single roll to be re-rolled on the failed hit so it can only effect a max of 50% of the rolls at RFR and his only shot at non RFR range.

since he will miss 1/3rd of the time the re-roll will only come in to play that often.

in my salamander drop list @1500pts I have 4 sergeants that can make use of this (I could in theory have many more but meh) and its a nice thing to have but isn't going to break the game any time soon.

**grendel083**

nutty_nutter wrote:
grendel083 wrote:
And yet the rule doesn't apply to a standard Boltgun, does it?
yes it does bud, its master crafting the weapon as a whole, the is no differentiating factor on the rule for the weapon.

I meant as in a standard Boltgun on its own, not the Bolter part of a Combi-gun.

I agree that RAW it includes the Bolter part of a Combi-Bolter, but disagree that the intent is to include this part.

**nutty_nutter**

I would disagree on the basis that the rule is master crafting a weapon that has two different ammunition types.

that being said it is a good way of getting sterngaurd to have mastercrafted special issue ammo so I can see why you would hesitate on allowing it, but you are paying a hefty price tag to both take the weapon and the model that grants the rule. so....meh....

previous rendition of the rule was ambiguous as to if it even included a combi-melta so its nice to see clarification on that aspect at least.

**Sir Arun**

nutty_nutter wrote:
that being said it is a good way of getting sterngaurd to have mastercrafted special issue ammo so I can see why you would hesitate on allowing it, but you are paying a hefty price tag to both take the weapon and the model that grants the rule.

Hah, I hadn't thought of that. Sternguard or Command Squads with each member having a Combi-melta are now all fielding TL-bolters, with the Sternguard also being able to twin-link their Special Issue Ammo much to the disbelief of the Imperial Fists

**Thariinye**

While the Imperial Fists CT specifically calls out combi-weapons firing as bolters, Vulkan simply says that combi-meltas have the master-crafted rule. That would indeed mean that combi-meltas held by Sternguard would have Master-crafted, and thus, bar errata or amendments by FAQ, could result in TL Special Issue Ammo.

It's nice, but combi-weapons on Sternguard are expensive enough that it's not really broken. It does make them a viable elites choice other than LotD when you're using Vulkan.

**Sir Arun**

Until FAQ'd, I'll stick with the notion that GW intended it this way. Sallies have the weakest CTs of the bunch (affecting only flamer weapons, and if you take Vulkan, melta weapons; plus master-crafting characters' weapons also isnt what it once used to be, and is comparatively weaker than templar characters getting to reroll *all* failed hits in cc, though sallie chars have a small advantage when it comes to wounding outside duels)

**Jimsolo**

I play it that the bolter part is twin-linked as well. Everyone I know has said I'm in the right on that one. And I do in fact use it on my Sternguard's special ammo.