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Hallo all!

So I'm wanting to start Dark Elves and I'm trying to come up with some good theme ideas for them. I'm wanting input from those of you who know about them Dark Elves and their units' background (cause I sure don't!) to make sure I've got a good handle on the theme.

The goal here is to make an army that is fun to play and fun to play against. There is a distinct chance that this army will never see a tournament, so it doesn't have to be the out over the top OMGCHEEZE army out there either. Here are a few ideas I came up with, ranked in order of (current) preference:

1) Witch Elf coven- lots of the new pretty witch elves, a cauldron, a hag and then sprinkle in other units to taste. What other units do you think would fit in with this type of force?

2) Corsairs- raiding type list with corsairs, the not-hydra thing and repeater bolt throwers. Again, unsure of how to make this one.

3) Dreadlord and friends- a more typical feeling DE army using elite troops to deal damage . Pretty much anything goes except witches. I got 99 problems but a witch ain't one!

4) Beastmaster force- not even sure if this is possible, but it would involve hydras and the beauty chariot with cold ones sprinkled generously throughout. How would you accomplish this one?

Hopefully I'll be picking up the book today!

As far as fluff goes for making those themes work:

A Witch Coven would be very much based around Witch Elves, Cauldrons of Blood, Assassins and Executioners. If you really want to stick to theme, use characters like Hellebron, Tullaris and Shadowblade and avoid using spellcasters. It isn't a strict "no wizards" thing, but they do have an animosity.

A Corsair raiding force would be based around something out of a Black Ark. I'd say an obvious choice for a leader is either a new Fleetmaster or a Dreadlord to represent a higher-up one. Units, think you'll want to build around a core of Corsairs, Dark Riders and Bolt Throwers.

You can also have a beast army based off of the city of...Karond Kar (I think, don't have my book on hand) and this would be a bit of a combination of your 3rd and 4th idea. Characters would be the Beastmaster lords, but could be supplemented by lesser nobles (Masters) and wizards. The core troops would probably best fit as basic spearmen, swordsmen and crossbowmen, representing the city militas that your lord pulled together. And the rest of it is monstery goodness; Hydras, Khyrabadysses (sp), Manticores and Dragons to ride on and so on.

I like the Khaine theme. It's probably one of the most powerful also.

Witches, Cauldron, Executioners. Then I like the idea of taking a level 4 with life, dagger, and black amulet. Put her in a big unit of Executioners and call her a Disciple of Khaine, pretty close to how they played in Warhammer Online.

 Red Viper wrote:
I like the Khaine theme. It's probably one of the most powerful also.

Witches, Cauldron, Executioners. Then I like the idea of taking a level 4 with life, dagger, and black amulet. Put her in a big unit of Executioners and call her a Disciple of Khaine, pretty close to how they played in Warhammer Online.

That seems a poor place for her. Why are you reducing the fighting strength of your Executioner block and putting the LEAST fighty character in the MOST danger?

Put Tullaris with the Executioner block and have your Sorceress hanging back with crossbows or something.

I'm really leaning towards the witch idea. Using the city of Har Ganeth as a base, I think I could easily justify a few other units in there, although the bulk of the army would probably be:

35 witches w/ cauldron (deployed 5x7)
20 witches w/ Hellebron
30 Executioners
Sprinkle in other units as far as the points let me!

A quick question about the cauldron: does it function like a screaming bell when it comes to unit placement? In other words, does it actually go in the unit and take up space in ranks as if it were rank and file?

Yes it does. But in your list I would really strongly recommend putting Hellebron on the Cauldron. She has no saves of any kind and the Cauldron at least gives her a 5++.

Ok, thanks! I really need to get the book! Now I'm thinking about rules, but I'm not about to clog up the forums we a bunch of questions I could answer if I had the book in my hands!

Ok, I'll ask one. Is Hellebron a caster?

Yes, the book should be the very first thing you get, imo. It shows you all the options and ideas like how can also really strongly support your Witches with Sisters of Slaughter.

 curran12 wrote:


That seems a poor place for her. Why are you reducing the fighting strength of your Executioner block and putting the LEAST fighty character in the MOST danger?

Put Tullaris with the Executioner block and have your Sorceress hanging back with crossbows or something.

He's not looking for power, he's looking for theme. It's a decent spot for her. She can buff the Executioners and keep them around longer. The Black Amulet makes her a scary foe for any character to face. She barely reduces the fighting strength of the unit anyway, you lose a single S6 (or two if you are already assuming Tullaris is in the unit) attack. I know it's sad using the dagger on 12 point models, but she can at least raise them back up... and other than Bleakswords, Executioners are only 1point more than our other infantry.

Tullaris is awesome, but having my two main blocks frenzied makes me nervous.

I'm just throwing an idea to get a Level 4 in a Khaine list and making it believable. Playing her like a DoK is totally in theme.

 curran12 wrote:
Yes it does. But in your list I would really strongly recommend putting Hellebron on the Cauldron. She has no saves of any kind and the Cauldron at least gives her a 5++.

Terrible idea. 1) She can't make way on the cauldron because her base size (the cauldron mount) is too big to displace a single rank-and-file. So bait her frenzied unit (that tests to charge at -3) and hit it in the flank, and your super expensive character can't even attack until you combat reform (quite likely without frenzy, due to a lost combat). Also 2) on the cauldron she becomes cannon/stonethrower bait. Yeah she gets a 5++, but she gets that just for being in the unit and on the casket she doesn't get a Look Out Sir!

The better trick is to put Hellebron on foot, then put a Death Hag on a cauldron in the unit and make her the BSB. That way Hellebron can make way, gets a Look Out Sir, and won't be eating rocks all day.

The one thing I keep bashing my head into is my love of the new witch elf models and the savings I get for the new Warhost.

My FLGS sells me the Warhost at 20% off which makes it $136, which is essential 35% off MSRP. I could buy two of them for $272, giving me 10 cold one knights, 2 chariots, 40 corsairs and 40 dark names, plus the 2 fleet masters. It's really hard to argue with that value. Probably not as effective as the witches though, but even after adding in a hydra or two I'm still under $400.

That said, I still like the witch idea more, but that army I'd going to run me about $300 in witches alone with the cauldron. (50 witches + cauldron after discount) Add in the executioners and a few other units and I'm easily over $500.

So basically:
Witch Army:
Cauldron
50 witches
30 executioners
20 Dark Shards
$476

Warhost army:
2 Warhost:
2 fleetmaster, other master guy
40 corsairs
40 Dark Shards
10 Cold One Knights
2 Cold One Chariots
2 reaper bolt throwers
1 sorceress
2 Hydras
$435.55

So, yeah...a lot more points with the cheaper option, but I'm not sure it gets me into it enough to actually sit down and paint a bunch of stuff. I may just buy the witches anyway.

If you want to get deeper into the background, there is a Dark Elf triology exactly for that purpose: Time of Legends The Sundering. Written by Gav Thorpe, author of the previous army book and ex-coordinator of GW background, so he knows what he is talking about.
Features the time before the High /Dark Elf split, the split itself and the first time after it, including the birth of the witch cult featuring Hellebron.

My personal theme will be Drow (dark-skinned D&D Dark Elves).

I was thinking about 2500 pts beastmaster too... I dont play darkelves myself but one of the guys I usually play against.

If you want a low model count and very.... well all or nothing army:

Lord:

High Beastmster on Manticore 300 pkt

Heroes:

Noble + BSB + Manticore 245 pkt

Mage + lvl 2 + Horse (gives light cav) 125 pkt


Core:

5x Dark Riders + Shields + Boltthrowers 100 pkt

5x Dark Riders + Shields + Boltthrowers 100 pkt

5x Dark Riders + Shields + Boltthrowers 100 pkt

5x Dark Riders + Shields + Boltthrowers 100 pkt

10x Dark Riders + Shields + Boltthrowers+ CMS 230 pkt

Special:

Hydra + Breath Weapon 180 pkt

Hydra + Breath Weapon 180 pkt

Hydra + Breath Weapon 180 pkt

Rare:

Kharibdyss 160 pkt

Kharibdyss 160 pkt

5x Doomfire Warlocks 125 pkt



This leaves you with 215 pts, to give some equipment to the three chars, or manticore upgrades, or champs to units or Banners. The only thing maybe not perfectly in theme are the Warlocks...though you could arguee they hutn for sacrifices... if you want you can fill the core with spears or bolts instead but this way its... unique ... though maybe not 100% competive.

I feel you need the warlocks because you only have a lvl 2 mage ... but you could also cut them and use 25 points to ad a beastmaster chariot ...which would fit great in the theme but maybe make it weaker... it is really a shame that this boys are not core...would fill the army up very nice... where are the beastmaster special chars to make such rules `? :(

Well in the current Version you pack 7 Monsters as well as 6 units of light cav, 2 of hich are basically mages to get them into the right position easily. Also it has no really expensive targets, but sure requires some hard positioning work to pull of a victory since there is no big combat block... I am sure I would be too bad to play it. On the other hand it has a quite some deploys, which should help out.

So I'll be going with the Corsair option just because it is so much more economically viable.

I appreciate all of the help everyone!


Now is the Kharibdyss worth taking?

I also had the idea of the corsair army if and when I get round to dark elves.

Also, for dark elf background outside of the army book, check out the sundering novels like Kroothawk said but also the Darkblade series.

They really get into what makes the dark elves tick.

Well, I WAS going to go with a corsair theme, but after a night of wanton MTG trade-ins at one of my local shops, I was able to get a cauldron of blood and a box of witch elves for free....soooooo.....yeah.....

Har Ganeth here I come!

I know that my wife got me the Warhost for Christmas, but I'll probably end up trading off the corsairs for more witches or executioners. The RNF troopers will be made out as darkshards and I'll have some cold one knights and a chariot as some harder hitting flanker units. Color me excited!