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The aforementioned claws Daemon Prince is 156 points, so for 25 points over Ghetto Celestine you're getting two psychic powers. That's kind of the general principle; yes most factions' smashy characters are more expensive than ours, but they also have a lot more utility and capability outside of melee combat. Only the Destroyer Lord is so narrowly focused.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

That depends, don't Space Marine characters hit on 2+s with rerolls? How much are they?
Then again, they aren't as fast, but still.

A standard SM smash captain is 129 for a jump pack, stormshield, thunderhammer, 4x s8 -3 3d attacks hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s. (ws2+ with -1 to hit mod)

Vs 131 for a desty lord with a warscythe, phylactery and your choice of either, blood scythe or nanoscarab casket.

 Drider wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

That depends, don't Space Marine characters hit on 2+s with rerolls? How much are they?
Then again, they aren't as fast, but still.

A standard SM smash captain is 129 for a jump pack, stormshield, thunderhammer, 4x s8 -3 3d attacks hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s. (ws2+ with -1 to hit mod)

Vs 131 for a desty lord with a warscythe, phylactery and your choice of either, blood scythe or nanoscarab casket.

He can also take a voidreaper. Voidreaper can replace warscythes, you don't have to take void scythes.
Ok, so the D lord is a little more expensive, but he still has a couple of extra points of toughness and regen, right?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Drider wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

That depends, don't Space Marine characters hit on 2+s with rerolls? How much are they?
Then again, they aren't as fast, but still.

A standard SM smash captain is 129 for a jump pack, stormshield, thunderhammer, 4x s8 -3 3d attacks hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s. (ws2+ with -1 to hit mod)

Vs 131 for a desty lord with a warscythe, phylactery and your choice of either, blood scythe or nanoscarab casket.

He can also take a voidreaper. Voidreaper can replace warscythes, you don't have to take void scythes.
Ok, so the D lord is a little more expensive, but he still has a couple of extra points of toughness and regen, right?

Also keep in mind, with his special phylactery he regens both opponent's and your turn. That'w 4W per turn.

The main difference I see is that; SM Smash captain has the same WS as a standard Warscythe Destroyer Lord, SM gets a free DS from the jump pack for safety and 3++.

Dlord w/ nano Heals d3 wounds 2 times a battle round, comes back to life with D6 wounds, better Toughness and can take Dynasties to get more buffed.

If we discuss stratgems we can bring the Dlord back twice, +1 S (wounds captain on 2s now) and ignore invul on 1st attack.

torblind wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Drider wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

That depends, don't Space Marine characters hit on 2+s with rerolls? How much are they?
Then again, they aren't as fast, but still.

A standard SM smash captain is 129 for a jump pack, stormshield, thunderhammer, 4x s8 -3 3d attacks hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s. (ws2+ with -1 to hit mod)

Vs 131 for a desty lord with a warscythe, phylactery and your choice of either, blood scythe or nanoscarab casket.

He can also take a voidreaper. Voidreaper can replace warscythes, you don't have to take void scythes.
Ok, so the D lord is a little more expensive, but he still has a couple of extra points of toughness and regen, right?

Also keep in mind, with his special phylactery he regens both opponent's and your turn. That'w 4W per turn.

Oh wow, I missed that Nanoscarab effect. That's really good for tanking.

You only get to regenerate if the dlord isnt slain. And when he is slain he only gets up on 4+. And you cant have both voidscythe and nanoscarab casket. The dlord can be repaired by a cloaktek.

 p5freak wrote:
You only get to regenerate if the dlord isnt slain. And when he is slain he only gets up on 4+. And you cant have both voidscythe and nanoscarab casket. The dlord can be repaired by a cloaktek.

That's true. But the Cloaktek has to get in position first. It would be so much better if RP and Living Metal was at the end of the movement phase, so you could get your buff givers in position first.
Right now I'm finding it a bit difficult to make use of the technomancer and repair abilities, as I have to get in position after doing my rolls, which gives my opponent a chance to finish off whatever he was shooting at in his turn.

How does the cloaktek and nanoscarab interact? Do they stack or is it one or the other?

Does the nightmareshroud relic also improve inv. saves? It only states „improve safe by 1“

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Does the nightmareshroud relic also improve inv. saves? It only states „improve safe by 1“

The save is a number stated in the profile, all units has one. It becomes 1 better.

Hint: inv saves aren't in the profile.

Ah shoot, you're right. It says Save Characteristic, which would be what it says in the profile.

 Drider wrote:
How does the cloaktek and nanoscarab interact? Do they stack or is it one or the other?

Good question. Some could argue that his 1 from living metal turns into a D3 from either one, thus the other cant be used because it requires the 1 from living metal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ah shoot, you're right. It says Save Characteristic, which would be what it says in the profile.

Which makes this warlord trait pretty much useless. Other factions have traits that improve their inv by 1.

Well...is there a reason for why it only improves the normal save and not the inv. save other than „F*** YOU THATS WHY!“ ??

Because necrons would be to powerful if they had a character with a 3+ inv

 Drider wrote:
How does the cloaktek and nanoscarab interact? Do they stack or is it one or the other?

As pointed out, there's no room for the Canoptek Cloak and Nanoscarab Casket to stack since both explicitly change an existing value of 1 to D3. Once the NanoCasket has changed it, a nearby Cloaktek adds nothing since there's no 1 value there to alter.

 p5freak wrote:
Because necrons would be to powerful if they had a character with a 3+ inv

Theres probably truth in that...Just like with the „beat stick“ character DLord NOT hitting on 2s rerolling 1s but 3srerolling ones...

The only possible explanation Id have to why we see all of this is...During the design process they probably DID allowed them a 3+ inv and the DLord hitting on 2s BUT somehow gak their pants thinking about the backlash theyll get by all the „OMGZLOLZ NECRONS OP“ people...plus some bias...plus some „hate“...plus Chemical X...all this mixed together

That would be MY explanation...I cannot think of anything else...

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:
Well...is there a reason for why it only improves the normal save and not the inv. save other than „F*** YOU THATS WHY!“ ??

Because it's already an amazing relic?

Keep in mind that the smash captain can get a relic for 1 CP as well, can't just give your guy a free CP and then act like you're making a fair comparison, if you're spending CP every time the Captain takes a wound then he also becomes far more durable, re-rolling a 3+ is better than re-rolling a 4+, so yes we have a Strat that allows him to revive, SM have a Strat that allows him to survive. Both the Cloak and Phylactery replaces Living Metal so they don't stack. D-Lord isn't good, he's the best choice in a vacume, but his lack of supporting abilities means that he IMO is only the best choice in something like a small Novokh or Nephrekh Detachment, even then if you're taking a unit of 6 Wraiths the ability to get them back on a 4+ and the pts saved on taking a Cloaktek makes the D-Lord not even that amazing in that situation. The only situation in which he is actually amazing is when he gets to make full use of his support ability, while also rolling up the board and getting into melee. The D-Lord is tough, but why does your character need to be tough, isn't the character keyword meant to protect you? You're getting a bullet sponge that hides behind a bullet sponge, I'd rather take a Nightbringer if my HQ slot has already been filled.

I won an Eternal War game against Tau with my triple C'tan list, bombed the gak out of him with double Cosmic Fire by using Cosmic Power T1 with an infiltrating Deceiver and Nightbringer, he didn't screen properly and lost his Warlord to the mortal wound barrage, among other scattered damage. In the end, he had two Riptides, 8 shield drones and a markerlight guy, I had a Cloaktek and 1 CP to resurrect him for T7 (game ended T6 and I won through VP). I forgot to use my Transcendent C'tans two powers two turns in a row, I also forgot to shoot with my Nightbringer T1 and with my Cloaktek T4. I used Cosmic Powers twice this game, I've been way underestimating its power, Cosmic Fire is just insane against some lists and is easily worth the 1 CP if you don't have any other good powers. Rolling for the Transcendent C'tan is fun so I don't think I'll ever switch to just picking, this game I got 3++ and double power usage which was pretty neat. Ignore cover aura and re-roll failed wounds in the Fight phase just seem so much weaker than double power usage, not to mention the chance of getting the same thing twice, it's probably better just to pick whatever works best against your opponent. I feel like I'm being quite hard on myself with no take-backs, I was fairly sure I had just lost myself with the second time I forgot to use my powers, but between dominating the board and taking objectives all game and playing kill pts against Tau I managed to pull out a victory. Trying to reanimate 5 Wraiths twice resulted in an amazing 1 Wraith recovery, not worth the 4 CP this game, should have kept my Cryptek in range, still, 1.

Nah, the biggest problem our HQs have is the inability to access a 3++ save, and are really, really expensive without some kind of bubble buff utility.

Regardless how you see it, we've slid a long way from the tough as nails near unkillable characters we were in 7th, that others adviced against been trying to kill.

I think we all agree that necrons are just a very low tier arm...If tailored right maybe ok but thats it...i shelved my necrons in 40k AND KT.

I really dont mind having a „bad“ lower mid tier army...but its just that we literally have NO variety in list building if we want to compete even agains semi competitive lists. Destroyers are mandatory!!!! If not so are DDAs...dont try to build a lukst without them for 2k or 1.75k.

I actually did a „port crons“ list and used kuthlak to advance and charge...i had 4units plus the characters in a 2k match!!!! Are we Imperial Knights or something?

Its just ridiculous and Im getting angry just thinking about it...At least if wed have access to allies to build some fun admech/crons list but no....we have no variety PLUS we are gak whatever we take.

I wont sugar coat it...GW has to do something...so many players are selling their armies on ebay...I see less and less crons in events

Outside of maybe TVault spam for fluffy games Necrons are a DEAD faction ( no pun here)

Yeah, I find list building to be pretty difficult. We don't really have any options. Everything is just so damned expensive, and aren't really cost effective compared to other factions.
Its as if GW is charging us a premium for resilience, when that should really be less than offense.

Don’t know if it got fixed or not since I cant reference the actual codex atm. Does Stormlord have the ability to MWBD either 2 Sautekhs or 1 unit of any other dynasty/non dynasty since it lists 'friendly'?

Kind of like independent non dynasty OL's like the traveler?

Ie - if you play co-op with another necron player running a different dynasty you could boost one of their infantry in range if you had extra uses laying around?

 Lothmar wrote:
Don’t know if it got fixed or not since I cant reference the actual codex atm. Does Stormlord have the ability to MWBD either 2 Sautekhs or 1 unit of any other dynasty/non dynasty since it lists 'friendly'?

Kind of like independent non dynasty OL's like the traveler?

Ie - if you play co-op with another necron player running a different dynasty you could boost one of their infantry in range if you had extra uses laying around?

Technically, there are 2 rules in play here.
1 is MWBD - Which says NECRON Infanry unit within 6 inches.
The second is
Phaeron of the Sautehk Dynasty - Which says "Immotekh can use his my will be done ability twice a turn, but only if you choose friendly SAUTEKH INFANTRY units to to be affected by it both times."

So yes, he gets 1 that can effect anyone. If he wants to use it twice, both units MUST be Sautehk.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 Lothmar wrote:
Don’t know if it got fixed or not since I cant reference the actual codex atm. Does Stormlord have the ability to MWBD either 2 Sautekhs or 1 unit of any other dynasty/non dynasty since it lists 'friendly'?

Kind of like independent non dynasty OL's like the traveler?

Ie - if you play co-op with another necron player running a different dynasty you could boost one of their infantry in range if you had extra uses laying around?

Technically, there are 2 rules in play here.
1 is MWBD - Which says NECRON Infanry unit within 6 inches.
The second is
Phaeron of the Sautehk Dynasty - Which says "Immotekh can use his my will be done ability twice a turn, but only if you choose friendly SAUTEKH INFANTRY units to to be affected by it both times."

So yes, he gets 1 that can effect anyone. If he wants to use it twice, both units MUST be Sautehk.

Oh so he can command praetorians then, as well he should, fluffwise.

Also he wants to be within 18" with his powefull staff. And praetorians want to be within 12" with their shooting, regardless of loudout. With a 6" MWBD it's not a horrible matchup. Well it's horrible for all the other usual reasons of course.

Thanks.

Man, I feel like I knew this when stuff came out...

Necrons can compartmentalize their forces into various dynasty factions correct? Just gotta make sure buff/heals etc can work where needed.

ex: Mephrit artillery, Nephrekh scarabs, sautekh leadership / some infantry etc

Hello folks. Here is the platinum question of the /thread.

Can Sauteks destroyers advance and shoot without penalty?

There is quote dubios idea that Yes, they can. And here some logic for support that.

Generally when GW whats to tell us that some weapons changes its profile, they do use "becomes" ,like in the Deathwatch special munition rules "e.g. Ap 0 weapon becomes(!) AP-2"

But in Sauteks Dynasty Code we may see "treat weapon as assault"

Which leads to an idea, that weapons profile itself wouldnt changes.

So we have a HEAVY barrle wich is not penaltised for moving due to Repulsor Platform rule, but we may shoot with it after advance.

Any thoughts guys?

No, for two reasons -

If you can advance and shoot, its an assault weapon, not a heavy weapon.

You can only advance and shoot with assault weapons, ergo Repulsor platform would not work as it explicitly specifies heavy weapons.
A weapon cannot be heavy and assault at the same time. You can pick one.

Repulsor platform also specifies that if the destroyer moves it doesn't suffer hit penalties. And advance is not the same as a move, its its own thing.

If Repulsor platform said "this unit does not suffer hit penalties from moving or advancing" then you'd have a point.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
No, for two reasons -

If you can advance and shoot, its an assault weapon, not a heavy weapon.

You can only advance and shoot with assault weapons, ergo Repulsor platform would not work as it explicitly specifies heavy weapons.
A weapon cannot be heavy and assault at the same time. You can pick one.

Repulsor platform also specifies that if the destroyer moves it doesn't suffer hit penalties. And advance is not the same as a move, its its own thing.

If Repulsor platform said "this unit does not suffer hit penalties from moving or advancing" then you'd have a point.

(bolded part) Is it though? By the book, all "Advancing" does is add to your Move characteristic. You still have to Move to actually, y'know, move.

Nevertheless, the first part of your argument still stands (can't be both Heavy and Assault)

momerathe wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
No, for two reasons -

If you can advance and shoot, its an assault weapon, not a heavy weapon.

You can only advance and shoot with assault weapons, ergo Repulsor platform would not work as it explicitly specifies heavy weapons.
A weapon cannot be heavy and assault at the same time. You can pick one.

Repulsor platform also specifies that if the destroyer moves it doesn't suffer hit penalties. And advance is not the same as a move, its its own thing.

If Repulsor platform said "this unit does not suffer hit penalties from moving or advancing" then you'd have a point.

(bolded part) Is it though? By the book, all "Advancing" does is add to your Move characteristic. You still have to Move to actually, y'know, move.

Nevertheless, the first part of your argument still stands (can't be both Heavy and Assault)

If all it did was that, then you would still be able to shoot weapons other than assault. As it stops you from firing weapons other than assault, it ceases being a "move" in game terms and is now something else.
I guess you could say that its a modified move, but it still isn't quite the same as an ordinary move.