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So I've got some older models (Slaanesh seekers) and some of the blades where the blade joins the hilt are weak. They look like its just general wear and tear on the model possibly coupled with some bad storing in their past so that the blades have been bent and fixed a few times. This has left that point very weak and I suspect if I don't do something the blades will end up falling off.

So is there anything I can do to strengthen that point in the metal?

I know I can cut the blade off, clean it up and pin it to the hilt with some thin brass and drill bits; but I'd rather not do that if I don't have to. So is there anything else I can do to add some strength?

Iv no idea with white metals. but some metals can be strengthen by heating and quenching.

But its not something id advise but if you have spare white metal sprue, you could try.

I don't think there are any other ways. (not chemically or physically i can think of)

White metals IIRC have a low melting point so be extremely careful as well if its older and have lead in it it could be even worse.

you're essentially looking at pinning. Cut it at the offending area, drill both ends out, glue a pin into it, reassemble and glue, and then add any GS as necessary to cover up anything that doesn't come back out perfect, ie, with a gap.

I have worked with a ton of old metal models and similar situations - tragically as others have pointed out, pinning as you describe may be the only option.

Or depending on the model, I have removed an entire arm, and just replaced that with either a decent stand in from a plastic model, or another metal.

best of luck, and sorry to not have any other suggestions.

 Desubot wrote:
Iv no idea with white metals. but some metals can be strengthen by heating and quenching.

But its not something id advise but if you have spare white metal sprue, you could try.

I don't think there are any other ways. (not chemically or physically i can think of)

White metals IIRC have a low melting point so be extremely careful as well if its older and have lead in it it could be even worse.

i don't understand how I missed this.

These are miniatures, not steel ulfbehrts. Heating and quenching will have no effect on white metal. It does typically make metals harder, but, given the nature of white metal...... if you heat it, you're going to end up with something like a wet noodle, and then quenching it... well... I sincerely doubt you'd be able to quench it right away without the air cooling it practically instantly, unless you're using some sort of under-water welding mechanism...........

What about if you built up the hilt with green stuff to a cutlass kind of thing that attaches firmly on the hand.

Does anyone know the melting point of white metal? Maybe heating it to 1/3 or 1/2 that temperature might be enough... Though obviously experimenting with sprue pieces woud be necessary.
(dont think the low melting point would be a major problem though... would mean you could possibly even use a regular oven to do it. )

Just a thought.

 poda_t wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Iv no idea with white metals. but some metals can be strengthen by heating and quenching.

But its not something id advise but if you have spare white metal sprue, you could try.

I don't think there are any other ways. (not chemically or physically i can think of)

White metals IIRC have a low melting point so be extremely careful as well if its older and have lead in it it could be even worse.

i don't understand how I missed this.

These are miniatures, not steel ulfbehrts. Heating and quenching will have no effect on white metal. It does typically make metals harder, but, given the nature of white metal...... if you heat it, you're going to end up with something like a wet noodle, and then quenching it... well... I sincerely doubt you'd be able to quench it right away without the air cooling it practically instantly, unless you're using some sort of under-water welding mechanism...........

Has nobody even realised the obvious point here that as older models they wont be white metal - they'll be a tin/lead alloy. This entire heating thing is a moot point and a pointless segue. Even if if you went to all the expense of reforging the entire damn weapon, its still a soft metal and you just get the same problem in a year or two of use.
Bite the bullet: snap it, pin, greenstuff it. What you're describing is the exact problem gamers have been having since they first started casting miniatures way back in the days of yore. Anything other than pinning it is a waste of time.

The point is moot for an entirely different reason: Neither white metal nor the old lead/alloy will take to that sort of heat treating. It's not a matter of adjusting the temperatures, the structure/composition of the materials simply doesn't allow it. Heating and quenching isn't a universal metallurgical hardening process - not even all ferrous metals benefit (depending on carbon content, primarily) and it will actually soften silver, copper, and brass.

If you wanted to play with fire while fixing the problem, you'd be looking at molding the part, melting the damaged material down, and recasting it. Inefficient, at absolute best.

Cutting it cleanly and pinning is really your best option, although you could sculpt around it, as Kilkrazy suggests. Won't be as strong as a pin, but it may be enough to keep it from snapping in a stiff breeze.

Thanks for the input all!

Just to clarify they are older metal, but only back as far as the white-metal era and not all the way back into the lead based metals.

That said it seems that the only real option is cutting, cleaning and pinning the parts; a pain but it seems that there isn't any other option to strengthen the join outside of the greenstuff addition on the outside (which might be more tricky than it sounds to get it to look good whilst at the same time ensuring that its thick enough to actually support the metal).

 Overread wrote:
a pain but it seems that there isn't any other option to strengthen the join outside of the greenstuff addition on the outside (which might be more tricky than it sounds to get it to look good whilst at the same time ensuring that its thick enough to actually support the metal).

Well. Can you post a picture? It's possible to, after green stuffing, stick something atop the greenstuff to make it a decorative element, like a tiny skull or a gem something - how big of a working area is there?

Sadly not much of a working area.




This is a shot of one of the similar models I have where the blade connection point isn't weak (the ones where it is weak are currently in a Dettol bath).
It shows that there really isn't much working area for greenstuff to really make much of a hold - even pinning is going to be a nightmare.

 Overread wrote:
Thanks for the input all!

Just to clarify they are older metal, but only back as far as the white-metal era and not all the way back into the lead based metals.

That said it seems that the only real option is cutting, cleaning and pinning the parts; a pain but it seems that there isn't any other option to strengthen the join outside of the greenstuff addition on the outside (which might be more tricky than it sounds to get it to look good whilst at the same time ensuring that its thick enough to actually support the metal).

once you get over it and find the technique, you suddently develop a preference for it. My khador/mercs? if it was metal and came in more than one piece, it was pinned. All of them. I'm even considdering drilling out the banner poles and inserting a stiffer /tougher wire through the core of it....

If I were in your shoes, I would probably cut them off and sculpt up a slightly thicker replacement blade with stryrene and a dremel tool or sandpaper and recast the blade (or just make a few by hand if I only needed a couple).

Or pick up a few suitable replacements swords on ebay and use those.

Hmm but I'd still have to pin it to the hilt in the fist - so new blade or old it still comes don to the same contact point unless I were re-sculpting the whole wrist (which is why beyond what I can do)

There should be plenty of room in the fist for a 1/64" pin, no? But yeah, I don't see another place to drill.

I had to do something similar with a broken staff on the Warhammer Online limited edition Orc Warboss. I took green stuff and wrapped it around the weakened point after filing down the points and regluing the parts together.

Done right it looks like nothing but cloth wrapped around the item.