Switch Theme:

Grots and the ADL  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker





I've asked this question before in other threads but could never get a clear response or the thread would devolve into arguing. Are grots prevented from firing the ADL quad gun due to being too short and unable to see over the wall? Because in artillery rules you must measure range and LOS using the operator of the artillery piece. I just really want to make sure I'm not making any mistakes when doing this.

Guardians of the Temple 2000 points
GorStomp's Brutal Boyz: 2000 points 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





its by TLoS, so they can only shoot what they can see

And yes the ADL can BLoS
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




South Chicago burbs

If the grot cants see it, it can't shoot. Period.

insaniak wrote:
YMDC has plenty of room for discussion veering away from the RAW, particularly in cases like this where what is being put forward as the RAW is absurd.

11k
4K
4k
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Yup, any model that can not see over the wall can not shoot over it, as they need LOS to their target.

 
   
Made in us
Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker





Total bummer man, anyway around this travesty?

Guardians of the Temple 2000 points
GorStomp's Brutal Boyz: 2000 points 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





 earlofburger wrote:
Total bummer man, anyway around this travesty?


not with out cheating and modeling for advantage
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer





Reading, UK

 CrownAxe wrote:
 earlofburger wrote:
Total bummer man, anyway around this travesty?

not with out cheating and modeling for advantage
That, or good use of terrain. A very shallow mesa (or a slope) could give you enough LOS to shoot, yet still grant you the ADL's cover save.

Perhaps difficult to engineer properly every game, but certainly not impossible.

DoW

"War. War never changes." - Fallout

4000pts
3000pts
1000pts
2500pts 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Place the quad gun to one end of the wall, so that the grots can peer round the end?

 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





 DogOfWar wrote:
 CrownAxe wrote:
 earlofburger wrote:
Total bummer man, anyway around this travesty?

not with out cheating and modeling for advantage
That, or good use of terrain. A very shallow mesa (or a slope) could give you enough LOS to shoot, yet still grant you the ADL's cover save.

Perhaps difficult to engineer properly every game, but certainly not impossible.

DoW

of course if you do that you probably won't get cover from the ADL then either
   
Made in us
Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker





@crownAxe: wouldn't enemy fire be directed towards the quad gun like standard artillery rules? Or does the ADL gun work different?

Guardians of the Temple 2000 points
GorStomp's Brutal Boyz: 2000 points 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





 earlofburger wrote:
@crownAxe: wouldn't enemy fire be directed towards the quad gun like standard artillery rules? Or does the ADL gun work different?


Gun Emplacements aren't apart of your unit, so no
   
Made in us
Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker





welp, i guess i could try insaniak's idea

Guardians of the Temple 2000 points
GorStomp's Brutal Boyz: 2000 points 
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer





Reading, UK

 CrownAxe wrote:

of course if you do that you probably won't get cover from the ADL then either
Perhaps. It would take a bit of a model's eye view but I think you can probably get the eyeline of a grot over the wall without exposing the entire torso. Ymmv.

DoW

"War. War never changes." - Fallout

4000pts
3000pts
1000pts
2500pts 
   
Made in ca
Frenzied Berserker Terminator





Canada

But the Grot is tiny, and nimble. He's resourceful and cunning, mostly because he's a coward but he's a smart coward nonetheless. I say the Grot CAN fire the ADL Gun because it has a targeting display, because he can climb on top of another Grot and aim while a third Grot yanks the firing mechanism, because it's an Orky ADL Gun and the Grots built a platform for it, because TLoS is ridiculous, because I'm drunk and I want the Grot to fire the gun! Either he does it or I send a Nob over to bash 'im!

Besides, the Grot can't hit anything anyways. Just let the lil guy fire the gun and have a laugh as he hits everything BUT the target.



Gets along better with animals... Go figure. 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






darkcloak wrote:
But the Grot is tiny, and nimble. He's resourceful and cunning, mostly because he's a coward but he's a smart coward nonetheless. I say the Grot CAN fire the ADL Gun because it has a targeting display, because he can climb on top of another Grot and aim while a third Grot yanks the firing mechanism, because it's an Orky ADL Gun and the Grots built a platform for it, because TLoS is ridiculous, because I'm drunk and I want the Grot to fire the gun! Either he does it or I send a Nob over to bash 'im!

Besides, the Grot can't hit anything anyways. Just let the lil guy fire the gun and have a laugh as he hits everything BUT the target.


You cay all you want, but the rules state otherwise.

Or if we are going to go by Fluff I should be able to win 30,000 point games with 1000 points of marines; after all a single squad is supposed to be able to pacify a city, so 2000 points of any army would be an easy auto win for 2000 points of marines.

This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer





Reading, UK

darkcloak wrote:
But the Grot is tiny, and nimble. He's resourceful and cunning, mostly because he's a coward but he's a smart coward nonetheless. I say the Grot CAN fire the ADL Gun because it has a targeting display, because he can climb on top of another Grot and aim while a third Grot yanks the firing mechanism, because it's an Orky ADL Gun and the Grots built a platform for it, because TLoS is ridiculous, because I'm drunk and I want the Grot to fire the gun! Either he does it or I send a Nob over to bash 'im!

Besides, the Grot can't hit anything anyways. Just let the lil guy fire the gun and have a laugh as he hits everything BUT the target.
Don't mind the crusty old dakkaites, Darkcloak, I found it amusing

DoW

"War. War never changes." - Fallout

4000pts
3000pts
1000pts
2500pts 
   
Made in au
Rookie Pilot






Melbourne, Australia

All you need to do is have the gun at the end of the wall and jump one grot a turn in front to fire it.

 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 mrshl9898 wrote:
All you need to do is have the gun at the end of the wall and jump one grot a turn in front to fire it.

This, let them waste a whole unit's shooting on one grot.

Even better put the gun behind the aegis but at the far end so the gun can claim a cover save from the ADL and the grot can still get into base to fire the gun.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

The gun touches the wall the grot stands on the base between model and ADL. Viola.

If the WAAC player is gonna be like that, by the same token this also means that storm raven can't see you either

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/27 06:39:37


 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





 doktor_g wrote:
The gun touches the wall the grot stands on the base between model and ADL. Viola.

If the WAAC player is gonna be like that, by the same token this also means that storm raven can't see you either

depends on how close the storm raven is
   
Made in nz
Disguised Speculo





 earlofburger wrote:
Total bummer man, anyway around this travesty?


Ask your TO for their own ruling. Sofar, 100% of TO's have said "feth that gak, Grots can use the weapon", but YMMV

Also you can modify the base of the model without breaching the rules. Stick the Grot on a rock or some gak, and laugh as certain opponents cry MFA and tear out their neckbeards
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 doktor_g wrote:
If the WAAC player is gonna be like that, ...

Expecting an opponent to actually draw LOS in order to shoot, in a game that uses TLOS (and has done for 20 years) is not exactly most people's definition of 'WAAC' behaviour.

 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Dakkamite wrote:
Also you can modify the base of the model without breaching the rules. Stick the Grot on a rock or some gak, and laugh as certain opponents cry MFA and tear out their neckbeards


Elevating a model on the base to gain an advantage is the literal definition of MFA. If you do that, it would only be fair if your opponents glue some tall grass or sandbags on their bases so they are always in cover. Down that path lies madness.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Dakkamite wrote:
 earlofburger wrote:
Total bummer man, anyway around this travesty?


Ask your TO for their own ruling. Sofar, 100% of TO's have said "feth that gak, Grots can use the weapon", but YMMV

Also you can modify the base of the model without breaching the rules. Stick the Grot on a rock or some gak, and laugh as certain opponents cry MFA and tear out their neckbeards

So you'd be OK with me modelling my base such that you couldnt draw LOS to my model? As long as youre consistent.
   
Made in gb
Tough Tyrant Guard





SHE-FI-ELD

Other option is if you’re meta and tournaments allow, custom or 3rd party ADL's, I'd prefer that to just house ruling they can shoot over. Check first.

Wouldn’t recommend modifying bases.

It's my codex and I'll cry If I want to.

Tactical objectives are fantastic 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

 insaniak wrote:
 doktor_g wrote:
If the WAAC player is gonna be like that, ...

Expecting an opponent to actually draw LOS in order to shoot, in a game that uses TLOS (and has done for 20 years) is not exactly most people's definition of 'WAAC' behaviour.


Conceded, I just got my hackles up because we were talkin' 'bout my grots man.... I mean they're grots! They've been crapped on all their short lives and now this...



Have a heart bro!

But seriously...shouldn't LOS be drawn from the QG anyway? Even though I'd be the likely beneficiary, I don't think I'd disallow my opponent (even in a tourney) to not shoot at me.
   
Made in gb
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Isle of Man

 Nem wrote:
Other option is if you’re meta and tournaments allow, custom or 3rd party ADL's
I personally use GW's Ork Barricade kit. It's the same length as an ADL (almost as if they designed it that way )
It's not quite as tactically flexible, as it doesn't have the small sections, but is a good height for grots.
So far non of my opponents have complained, and GW are happy for you to use it at their tournaments.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/27 11:19:34


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Doktor - no, the rules for those emplaced weapons is quite clear - you use the LOS of the model firing it
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I don't know, I think a grot standing on the shoulder of another grot would be quite funny. Tournament legal? Nah. But it would be quite funny. Especially if there's another pair nearby looking through the slots as spotters.
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Munga wrote:
I don't know, I think a grot standing on the shoulder of another grot would be quite funny. Tournament legal? Nah. But it would be quite funny. Especially if there's another pair nearby looking through the slots as spotters.


Forge World has such a model, as part of the Gretchin Crew.


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: