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2013/12/19 20:24:41
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/18/Green-Bullets-Overtaking-Lead-Bullets-Thanks-To-EPA-State-Regs-Military
Thanks to EPA regulations, state regulations, and military goals, traditional lead ammo is on its way out and "green bullets" are on their way in.
As Breitbart News reported on December 1, EPA regulations led to the closing of the Herculaneam lead smelter in Herculaneum, Missouri, which is expected to push up prices for traditional lead ammo.
On top of this are regulations like the recent statewide lead ammo ban in California. Signed by Governor Jerry Brown (D) on October 11, this ban forces hunters to seek out nontraditional alternatives for their ammunition. In this way, the ban mandates "green bullets" by default.
Moreover, as Fox News reports, the military has set 2018 as its target date to have troops operating lead-ammo-free. "Green bullets" have been under testing at Picatinny Arsenal since 2010, and the Army plans to issue "a lead-free version of the 7.62 mm rounds fired from M-14 rifles... in 2014." The Army already switched to a greener 5.56 mm "enhanced performance round" in 2010.
With the military committing to the switch, the EPA making smelting a tougher business, and governors passing state-level lead ammo bans, experts say "lead bullets will be all but phased out within a few years in favor of so-called green bullets."
All I've gotta say is that I'm sure that the 25,000 Airmen who will be walking out the door next year due to budget cuts, are glad we're doing so much for the environment.
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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2013/12/19 20:36:47
Subject: Re:EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Kid_Kyoto
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What are the new bullets actually made from?
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2013/12/19 20:38:51
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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I haven't found anything yet that says that, but I have seen that the price of lead bullets was .5 cents per bullet, while these new "green" bullets are 8 cents a bullet.
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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2013/12/19 20:43:15
Subject: Re:EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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While on the one hand it's great that they are pushing environmental issues, what kind of impact does the lead really have?
Seems a bit mad.
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2013/12/19 20:44:35
Subject: Re:EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Badass "Sister Sin"
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Pretty significant actually. In fact, the whole point of a bullet is the impact.
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2013/12/19 20:44:53
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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Well they dont want to give lead poisoning to the terrorists, we have to be humane
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2013/12/19 20:45:40
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Badass "Sister Sin"
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hotsauceman1 wrote:Well they dont want to give lead poisoning to the terrorists, we have to be humane
Considering that not everyone in the area where we are currently holding offensive operations is a terrorist...
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2013/12/19 20:47:07
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Kid_Kyoto
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pretre wrote: hotsauceman1 wrote:Well they dont want to give lead poisoning to the terrorists, we have to be humane
Considering that not everyone in the area where we are currently holding offensive operations is a terrorist...
The way people keep going on about them, you'd think we had them jumping out from behind every corner.
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2013/12/19 20:48:34
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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pretre wrote: hotsauceman1 wrote:Well they dont want to give lead poisoning to the terrorists, we have to be humane
Considering that not everyone in the area where we are currently holding offensive operations is a terrorist...
The only credible risk of lead poisoning that I've seen is from subsistence hunters who on a daily basis eat animals they have shot, and even that is rare.
Unless Afghani's are doing nightly BBQ's with the latest Jimmy Jihad we lit up, the risk is statistically negligible to them.
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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2013/12/19 20:51:00
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
The Great State of New Jersey
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So, where does the 1600% more come into play?
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2013/12/19 20:52:22
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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I was being sarcastic, It was mean t as a joke that we dont want to poison the terrorists we shot with lead.
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2013/12/19 20:53:35
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
The Great State of New Jersey
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I figured as much, either that or djones was practicing to become a journalist ;P
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2013/12/19 20:53:37
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Badass "Sister Sin"
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djones520 wrote:The only credible risk of lead poisoning that I've seen is from subsistence hunters who on a daily basis eat animals they have shot, and even that is rare.
I imagine handling them as well could be an issue and if they get into the water supply. I imagine there are also environmental issues surrounding lead production, but yeah... Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh hey look, more information that didn't come to breitbart... How bad do you have to be when FOX is more factual... Geeze.
It has little to do with EPA:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/18/end-line-for-lead-bullet-regulations-bans-force-switch-to-green-ammo/
The bid to ban lead bullets, seen by some as harmful to the environment, started slowly more than a decade ago. But with two dozen states, including California, banning bullets made of the soft, heavy metal, the lead bullet's epitaph was already being written when the federal government finished it off.
First, the military announced plans to phase out lead bullets by 2018.
Then the federal Environmental Protection Agency, citing emissions, ordered the shutdown of the Doe Run company's lead smelter in Herculaneum, Mo., by year's end.
So the military was already planning to get rid of them before EPA stepped in and EPA is acting because of environmental issues at the manufacturer.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/19 20:56:14
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2013/12/19 20:56:17
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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The fact that a led bullet cost .5 cents to make, and these green ones cost 8 cents to make. And we're just talking the actual projectile here, not the whole thing, with casing, powder, etc...
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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2013/12/19 20:56:20
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Old Sourpuss
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djones520 wrote: pretre wrote: hotsauceman1 wrote:Well they dont want to give lead poisoning to the terrorists, we have to be humane
Considering that not everyone in the area where we are currently holding offensive operations is a terrorist...
The only credible risk of lead poisoning that I've seen is from subsistence hunters who on a daily basis eat animals they have shot, and even that is rare.
Unless Afghani's are doing nightly BBQ's with the latest Jimmy Jihad we lit up, the risk is statistically negligible to them.
Is Jimmy Jihad a competitor of Jack Link's Jerky?
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+
Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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2013/12/19 21:06:47
Subject: Re:EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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2013/12/19 21:11:11
Subject: Re:EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot
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Ground-up unicorn horn and wishful thinking.
Or, you know, this.
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2013/12/19 21:16:07
Subject: Re:EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Dakka Veteran
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Medium of Death wrote:While on the one hand it's great that they are pushing environmental issues, what kind of impact does the lead really have?
Seems a bit mad.
I'm going to say that it has a zero impact on the surrounding envrionment.
How much lead do you think was droped all across europe during ww2,
Hell more lead was probably used during one large scale Air raid with B17s than one year in Iraq
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"I LIEK CHOCOLATE MILK" - Batman
"It exist because it needs to. Because its not the tank the imperium deserve but the one it needs right now . So it wont complain because it can take it. Because they're not our normal tank. It is a silent guardian, a watchful protector . A leman russ!" - Ilove40k
3k
2k
/ 1k
1k |
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2013/12/19 21:37:59
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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I suspect the B17s dropped a lot more steel than lead...
As for the smelting issue, almost all lead ammo in the US is made from recycled lead vice newly smelted lead.
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Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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2013/12/19 21:47:10
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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[DCM]
Secret Squirrel
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djones520 wrote:
The fact that a led bullet cost .5 cents to make, and these green ones cost 8 cents to make. And we're just talking the actual projectile here, not the whole thing, with casing, powder, etc...
So either the casing is going up 1600%, the powder is going up 1600%, the labor is going up 1600% and the etc is going up 1600% as well...making the thread title true.
Or the thread title is sensationalist bullcrap.
A casual Google search seems to indicate that the military seems to pay aorund $0.40 per round. So if the quoted number for the cost increase is correct and the military gets no discount in prices for their giant bulk purchases it would put the new cost at $.0475 per round.
Considering that this would be a 20% increase in cost instead of a 1600% increase in cost I think it is safe to say that the thread title is a lie. Automatically Appended Next Post: CptJake wrote:I suspect the B17s dropped a lot more steel than lead...
As for the smelting issue, almost all lead ammo in the US is made from recycled lead vice newly smelted lead.
Wasn't the one place that was shut down pretty much a new lead only operation, so the impact was going to be pretty minimal?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/19 21:48:13
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2013/12/19 22:05:18
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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d-usa wrote:Considering that this would be a 20% increase in cost instead of a 1600% increase in cost I think it is safe to say that the thread title is a lie.
Well, you don't stuff facts into the Right Wing Outrage MachineĀ©. My friend, you load it with derp and sensationalism, and then crank that wheel.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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2013/12/19 22:08:39
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Ouze wrote: d-usa wrote:Considering that this would be a 20% increase in cost instead of a 1600% increase in cost I think it is safe to say that the thread title is a lie.
Well, you don't stuff facts into the Right Wing Outrage MachineĀ©. My friend, you load it with derp and sensationalism, and then crank that wheel.
Don't forget to add Liquid Schwatz to that too!
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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2013/12/19 22:14:09
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Master Tormentor
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Given the sort of bs Doe Run is infamous for... good?
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2013/12/19 22:15:44
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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djones520 wrote:I haven't found anything yet that says that, but I have seen that the price of lead bullets was .5 cents per bullet, while these new "green" bullets are 8 cents a bullet.
Where DID that 1600% figure come from? It's not in the source article at all. I'm pretty terrible at math but I think a 1600% increase would be an $8 dollar round, not an 80 cent one... right?
Shredded paper from the constitution, soaked in Obama urine.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/19 22:59:05
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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2013/12/19 22:21:13
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Ouze wrote:
Shredded paper from the constitution, soaked in Obama urine.
And the tears of Republicans during the aftermath of the '08/'12 election.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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2013/12/19 22:40:41
Subject: Re:EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Copper and the armpit sweat saved from Chester E Puller.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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2013/12/19 22:40:51
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Have any of you geniuses considered that $.05 a round to &.08 cents a round is a 60% increase in cost, meaning they're paying 160% of what they were, and that the extra zero might simply be a typo?
But you know, don't let logic and rationale get in the way of demonizing anything slightly right.
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2013/12/19 22:41:57
Subject: Re:EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Medium of Death wrote:While on the one hand it's great that they are pushing environmental issues, what kind of impact does the lead really have?
It makes the person on the receiving end fall over
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2013/12/19 22:43:21
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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djones520 wrote: pretre wrote: hotsauceman1 wrote:Well they dont want to give lead poisoning to the terrorists, we have to be humane
Considering that not everyone in the area where we are currently holding offensive operations is a terrorist...
The only credible risk of lead poisoning that I've seen is from subsistence hunters who on a daily basis eat animals they have shot, and even that is rare.
Unless Afghani's are doing nightly BBQ's with the latest Jimmy Jihad we lit up, the risk is statistically negligible to them.
Also, people who shoot indoors a lot. I have elevated lead levels. I blame the Crimean War...
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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2013/12/19 22:46:50
Subject: EPA finds way to make military pay 1600% more for bullets.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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cincydooley wrote:Have any of you geniuses considered that $.05 a round to &.08 cents a round is a 60% increase in cost, meaning they're paying 160% of what they were, and that the extra zero might simply be a typo?
But you know, don't let logic and rationale get in the way of demonizing anything slightly right.
Or it might be a false figure used to scare people. But just to be clear you are saying it is the readers fault for not interpreting the article correctly? Do I have that right?
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