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Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




Waaargh wrote:
I have some difficulties upgrading the battlescripe files on my smartphone. When I tried on my PC I got told I had downloaded the v2016.10 but when importing date from my files I ended up with v.2016.08.

Maybe it's just me.


It can be because you still have the 08 version on your phone. If you delete that one on your phone and in battlescribe and then import the new file, it should work.

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






The new Balewind Vortex warscroll has a casting value of 7 instead of 5, and also only allows non-monster heroes to summon it. I think 75-90 points may be a better value now, mostly because a 7 is much less reliable than a 5.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The new Balewind Vortex warscroll has a casting value of 7 instead of 5, and also only allows non-monster heroes to summon it. I think 75-90 points may be a better value now, mostly because a 7 is much less reliable than a 5.


This, coupled with the rule of 1 to make certain builds (Kroak Nova-spam for example) less effective, means it can well benefit from a points reduction. I'll put it at 80 pts immediately and we can take it from there if we need to.

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey Guys! Long time no speak

We've been playing a number of games with the generals handbook costing, but I've fell out of favour with it and returned to PPC which I feel has a much better granular balancing and obviously gets reviewed regularly

I'm so glad to see you adjust the Mourngul, I believe I initially commented on how crazy it was.

I want to re-raise the question of the Alliance abilities, and artefacts. Is the opinion of yours Attilla and Ninth to continue to not cost them? I'm happy either way we are just curious again as a group.

Also my friend is eager to play Nagash, we discussed this before and in your previous PPC rules he doubled his summon for the points cost. Do you believe that still to be the appropriate balance for his 800pts value? i.e. reserve 100 pts for reinforcements but Nagash creates 200pts when he brings them into play.

Thanks again for the continued work

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/18 15:39:09


 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






In my head, the idea behind allegiance abilities is they are already 'paid for' in the army restrictions that come with them. The options available to each faction (so far) are roughly equivalent to each other relative to their 'cost' so things are more or less balanced there. Now within a given set of allegiance abilities there are obviously better and worse options, but costing them out would create an extra step in the process that I'm pretty sure the majority of people would rather not worry about. Or in other words; the extra effort to incorporate the costs of allegiances would have a negligible effect on actual game balance. Attilla may have a different opinion though. Sidenote: Battle Brew is an obvious outlying option here, but I know many people (myself included) are expecting a GW errata to make it a 1/game use which seems to be RAI and would balance things out appropriately.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey Ninth, thanks for the response

I agree about Brew, it's pretty crazy. How do you see the cursed book from Death?

Has a cost been given for "The Spirits of Fellblood" battalion included in the box start collecting box? I cannot seem to find a value for it anywhere.
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






I think at first glance the cursed book seems really powerful, as well as the ring of immortality, but the other Death items can be just as potent if not immediately apparent as so. The cloak of mists and shadows, for example, I have used on a zombie dragon lord to jump out of combat in the hero phase, allowing him to move again in the movement phase, then charge an objective-controlling unit that was originally 27" away at the start of the turn. This maneuver won me the game.

Spirits of Fellblood does not have a cast because I have not been able to find a copy of the rules (its exclusive to the box), if you have a copy you can send me a picture of or just write out the rules I'd get right on it though!

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




Hi Jorthax, nice to see you around


I want to re-raise the question of the Alliance abilities, and artefacts. Is the opinion of yours Attilla and Ninth to continue to not cost them? I'm happy either way we are just curious again as a group.


My own group has come to the conclusion that while we would really enjoy points on all of these (some general and some battle tome specific) it would probably be a put off to many people. One of the fun thing when creating a list in Fantasy Battles was tailoring your heroes with magic items. So far, this isn't really what Age of Sigmar is about, so we're keeping them as is for now.

Also my friend is eager to play Nagash, we discussed this before and in your previous PPC rules he doubled his summon for the points cost. Do you believe that still to be the appropriate balance for his 800pts value? i.e. reserve 100 pts for reinforcements but Nagash creates 200pts when he brings them into play.


The answer to your question is that you need 200 pts reserved to get use out of his ability to raise double the amount. If you only have 100 pts he can only summon 100 pts. My group believes Nagash could actually be priced even less than 800 pts, but will wait with that until we some confirmation from other groups on the matter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/20 15:08:24


Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Hi All,

The battalion from the malignant starter box is:

The Spirit of Fellblood
1 Mortis Engine
1 unit of spirit hosts
1 unit of Hexwraiths

Abilities - Ghost storm
Unquiet spirits are drawn to the macabre energy of a mortis engine. In each of your hero phases, you can remove either the unit of spirit hosts or hexwraiths from the battlefield, then immediately set it back up within 6" of the battalion's mortis engine and more than 3" away from the enemy,

Would appreciate your suggestions on points.

Cheers.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Edit: wrong topic, oops.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/21 14:21:28


 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






boswelbd wrote:
Hi All,

The battalion from the malignant starter box is:

The Spirit of Fellblood
1 Mortis Engine
1 unit of spirit hosts
1 unit of Hexwraiths

Abilities - Ghost storm
Unquiet spirits are drawn to the macabre energy of a mortis engine. In each of your hero phases, you can remove either the unit of spirit hosts or hexwraiths from the battlefield, then immediately set it back up within 6" of the battalion's mortis engine and more than 3" away from the enemy,

Would appreciate your suggestions on points.

Cheers.
125, primarily due to the synergy of pulling the wraiths out of combat to do their 'ride-through' ability again before charging back in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In other news, some minor feedback notes:

-The Gigantic Chaos Spawn in Mr T's horde doesn't have its mark options listed. Maybe just 5 points since it loses a lot of potential synergy by not having the mortal or daemon keywords?

-After quite a bit of use in my Slaanesh army I am finding it hard to justify 165 points for the Lord of Slaanesh on Daemonic Mount as opposed to 130 for a generic Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount w/MoS. It really comes down to the former's command ability being better mostly in terms of flexibility (any mortal slaanesh unit vs just knights or chariots) while the latter is much more combat effective (having -1 rend on the main weapon as opposed to no rend makes a much larger difference on the tabletop than the math would indicate).

-The Mutalith Vortex beast seems like it needs a cost reduction considering its ability to generate spawn, previously a significant advantage, now requires reinforcement points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/21 20:51:05


"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey Ninth, I know a Chaos player in our group who might want to bust out some Mutalith Vortex Beasts if they do get a cost down.

Another quick clarification from you guys if you'd be so kind. Sylvaneth Wyldwoods state they are 1-3 citadel woods. The free Sylvaneth Wyldwood given by the grand alliance can consist of these 1-3 , or just 1 and the additionals cost 40pts or does 40pts get you 1-3?
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






The whole 'unit' is free, so it can be any size.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Hi Ninth,

Thanks for the spirit of fellblood point cost. Yet to try but will feedback when I beat Jorthax with it

Just picking up the Nagash summoning question above, how would you say his summoning points should work on summoning scaling units such as skeletons and zombies?

For example by summoning 20 zombies @50pts, would the cost of the additional 20 be simply double this cost totaling 100pts

or, as I'm currently assuming, would it be the total cost of a squad of 40 which would be 180pts?

(Clutching at straws to get him into a list.).

Cheers.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hi again, just a quick question on the mortis engine.

The current points include an option to take Blasphemous Tomes for an additional 30pts, but I can't seem to find these mentioned on the warscroll. Are you able to help as not sure what these are?

Cheers

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/30 01:13:16


 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




Ninth wrote:
In other news, some minor feedback notes:

-The Gigantic Chaos Spawn in Mr T's horde doesn't have its mark options listed. Maybe just 5 points since it loses a lot of potential synergy by not having the mortal or daemon keywords?

-After quite a bit of use in my Slaanesh army I am finding it hard to justify 165 points for the Lord of Slaanesh on Daemonic Mount as opposed to 130 for a generic Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount w/MoS. It really comes down to the former's command ability being better mostly in terms of flexibility (any mortal slaanesh unit vs just knights or chariots) while the latter is much more combat effective (having -1 rend on the main weapon as opposed to no rend makes a much larger difference on the tabletop than the math would indicate).

-The Mutalith Vortex beast seems like it needs a cost reduction considering its ability to generate spawn, previously a significant advantage, now requires reinforcement points.


Thanks for these, Ninth. You are right, the Mutalith will go down some - thinking 230-240pts, and the Chaos Spawn will have the Mark option added. The Slaanesh lord should also be decreased, let's see if he's more worth it at 140 pts - 10 pts more than a regular Lord for extra speed/defence and the cmd ability but less DO.


boswelbd wrote:

Just picking up the Nagash summoning question above, how would you say his summoning points should work on summoning scaling units such as skeletons and zombies?

For example by summoning 20 zombies @50pts, would the cost of the additional 20 be simply double this cost totaling 100pts

or, as I'm currently assuming, would it be the total cost of a squad of 40 which would be 180pts?

(Clutching at straws to get him into a list.).


It is as you assume, you need to pay the actual worth of the unit you summon. So 40 Zombies would cost more in a single summon attempt than summoning four units of 10 models each. Please try Nagash out, and let us know how he fared. Some feedback suggest he is still to expensive at his current cost, but we need more input before we adress him.

boswelbd wrote:
Hi again, just a quick question on the mortis engine.

The current points include an option to take Blasphemous Tomes for an additional 30pts, but I can't seem to find these mentioned on the warscroll. Are you able to help as not sure what these are?

Cheers


Thanks for noticing that - it's a leftover from its earlier warscroll and can be ignored.

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






After some digging and evaluating, here's values for most of the missing box set battalions (also reposted Spirits of Fellblood for convenience):

(Stormcast) Sigmar’s Vengeance – 75
(Sylvaneth) Darkroot Wargrove – Free

(Pestilens) Squal’s Pestilent Congregation – 100
(Undivided) Sylath’s Warhost – 125
(Khorne) Slaughterstorm – 100

(Death) Arkhan’s Skeleton Guard – 50
(Death) Spirits of Fellblood – 125

(Orruks) Da Warstompers – 100
(Orruks) Thunderfist – 125


"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




 NinthMusketeer wrote:
After some digging and evaluating, here's values for most of the missing box set battalions (also reposted Spirits of Fellblood for convenience):

(Stormcast) Sigmar’s Vengeance – 75
(Sylvaneth) Darkroot Wargrove – Free

(Pestilens) Squal’s Pestilent Congregation – 100
(Undivided) Sylath’s Warhost – 125
(Khorne) Slaughterstorm – 100

(Death) Arkhan’s Skeleton Guard – 50
(Death) Spirits of Fellblood – 125

(Orruks) Da Warstompers – 100
(Orruks) Thunderfist – 125



Great, I'll add this to the update and post them on the blog in the meantime!

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Both the new Spire of Dawn battalions ringing in at 100, the benefits are nice but both have a somewhat eclectic set of unit requirements.

Guardians of the Dawnspire – 100
Ripsnikk’s Raiders – 100


In other news, there are some new warscrolls out with that set to evaluate, and Forge World released (uninspired) scrolls for the Exalted Daemons.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Both the new Spire of Dawn battalions ringing in at 100, the benefits are nice but both have a somewhat eclectic set of unit requirements.

Guardians of the Dawnspire – 100
Ripsnikk’s Raiders – 100


In other news, there are some new warscrolls out with that set to evaluate, and Forge World released (uninspired) scrolls for the Exalted Daemons.


Added the Battalions for the upcoming revision

Here are the calculated values for the new Exalted Daemons:

EXALTED GREATER DAEMON OF TZEENTCH
510 pts

EXALTED GREATER DAEMON OF KHORNE
500 pts

EXALTED GREATER DAEMON OF NURGLE
400 pts

EXALTED GREATER DAEMON OF SLAANESH

525 pts

These units will be added in the upcoming PPC revision, so there is still time to play around with them and come with suggestions to their point values!

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






I think something is off with the Nurgle one, at only +70 points it's a massive upgrade from a regular GUO; the save & wound upgrades alone would be worth that!

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in dk
Regular Dakkanaut




 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think something is off with the Nurgle one, at only +70 points it's a massive upgrade from a regular GUO; the save & wound upgrades alone would be worth that!


Yeah lol, that seems off! I'll recheck it when I get home today. Possibly (probably) my tired eyes have played me a trick...

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






The recent FAQ update reminded me; would it be possible to put this note in the main comp document:

"A number of battalions allow models to be replaced after being slain, these models bypass the normal reinforcement rules and do not cost points from your reinforcement pool."

While I am normally for as little house rules as possible, the reality is that these battalions are next to useless without the above exception and simply wouldn't see play otherwise.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The recent FAQ update reminded me; would it be possible to put this note in the main comp document:

"A number of battalions allow models to be replaced after being slain, these models bypass the normal reinforcement rules and do not cost points from your reinforcement pool."

While I am normally for as little house rules as possible, the reality is that these battalions are next to useless without the above exception and simply wouldn't see play otherwise.


With the changes in the FAQ I'm all for this addition. Do you know if there any matched play battalions that this affects, or are all of them narrative by nature?

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Heartwood Wargrove, Oakenbrow Wargrove, and 'Ardfist are the only ones I can think of that are in Matched Play. The Daemon Cohort of Tzeentch could also be included but is a bit of a tricky case since the wording could bypass the reserve rules on its own depending on how one interprets it.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






After a good amount of experience with & against Skryre weapon teams, I feel like they could use some adjustment.

-The poison wind mortar has great potential but is really unreliable with only one shot at a 4+/4+. I think the 60-70 point range would be more appropriate.

-The ratling gun can be reasonably relied on to do something, but it rarely does very much. Even 4d6 shots is only going to be 3.5 wounds unless it gets closer to the enemy than it'd rather be. I think 60-70 would be more appropriate for this one as well.

-The warpfire thrower is quite potent. It has short range but has little trouble paying for itself in 1-2 shots since it can be reasonably counted on to deal 1d6 mortal wounds. I think 80-90 is a better range for this one.

-The warp grinder seems good where it is. The 'deep-strike' ability is great but very limited by a 9" range and a 1/3 chance of failing.

As a sidenote, stormfiends seem appropriate at their current cost and it may be worth rounding the 95-point warlock engineers to 100 as a quality-of-life improvement (they are certainly appropriate at that cost).

As an unrelated sidenote, I noted that 'Ardboys have their weapons listed as an option for the whole unit (the unit must take x, y, or z) when they can actually mix&match different options in the same unit. It may be worth removing the +1 point for dual options and letting players pick freely.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/02 06:06:58


"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





One of the biggest points concerns I have reviewed so far with PPC is that Judicators are so cheap. Is there any reason that they are so cheap? The range, rend, damage and ability to snipe heroes as a battleline choice seems very powerful. The other is why are plague drones so expensive when compared to units such as Stormcast Retributors? Overall, it just seems like stormcast are very very cheap compared to most other options. This is coming from someone who has a Stormcast army.

Do you have any events or tournaments that have been recently run on these current points values? I would be very curious to see those results.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/03 05:31:22


 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






It sounds like you are talking about Judicators with bows instead of crossbows. The latter costs 20 points/model (the base cost with free weapon option) while the bow costs +6 points per model. So Judicators with bows are 26 points per model.

Attilla would be better qualified to answer the question in regards to Drones & Retributors, but I can say that while the Retributors unquestionably hit harder for their cost the Drone beats them out in resilience, movement speed, battleshock, and synergy (their easily-gained locus buff in particular is quite potent). The Drone has a ranged attack as well but its somewhat pathetic so I doubt that is a significant factor.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




broxus wrote:
One of the biggest points concerns I have reviewed so far with PPC is that Judicators are so cheap. Is there any reason that they are so cheap? The range, rend, damage and ability to snipe heroes as a battleline choice seems very powerful. The other is why are plague drones so expensive when compared to units such as Stormcast Retributors? Overall, it just seems like stormcast are very very cheap compared to most other options. This is coming from someone who has a Stormcast army.

Do you have any events or tournaments that have been recently run on these current points values? I would be very curious to see those results.


Hi Broxus, and thanks for the feedback!
As Ninth has pointed out, I think you might have counted the Judis with X-Bows. A fully kitted Bow Judicator unit sits at 150pts in PPC, and 160pts in GHB, so not much of a difference there I believe.

With the Retributors, please notice its 120pts for 3 of them. A fully kitted out Ret unit will set you back 230 pts in PPC, and 220 pts in GHB. So Rets are actually more expensive in PPC.

The Drones cost 265 pts fully kitted out. Thats a difference of 35 pts compared to the Retributors, and comes from the ability to fly, having twice the movement, and better durability overall. The Drone's banner will drop a few points when the next update hits, so the gap between these units will not even be 35 pts anymore.

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Backwoods bunker USA

Attilla wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The recent FAQ update reminded me; would it be possible to put this note in the main comp document:

"A number of battalions allow models to be replaced after being slain, these models bypass the normal reinforcement rules and do not cost points from your reinforcement pool."

While I am normally for as little house rules as possible, the reality is that these battalions are next to useless without the above exception and simply wouldn't see play otherwise.


With the changes in the FAQ I'm all for this addition. Do you know if there any matched play battalions that this affects, or are all of them narrative by nature?


How would this apply to Pink Horrors - Blue Horrors - Brimstone?
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






It would not affect horror splitting; they would still require reinforcement points be spent. I suspect Attilla is waiting for the new Tzeentch battletome before making any changes there. Personally I suspect it will introduce some method of bypassing the normal reinforcement rules, at least in part.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
 
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