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If you think it's not viable to have typhus escort the poxwalkers, that means that you're not taking enough poxwalkers. Also, typhus making your squad of 6 point dudes T5 with the spell is not to be underestimated. Makes bolters wound you on 5's. That's a big deal.

The poxwalkers can be a little limited by typhus' movement value but it's absolutely worth increasing their resilience by that much.

 luke1705 wrote:
If you think it's not viable to have typhus escort the poxwalkers, that means that you're not taking enough poxwalkers. Also, typhus making your squad of 6 point dudes T5 with the spell is not to be underestimated. Makes bolters wound you on 5's. That's a big deal.

The poxwalkers can be a little limited by typhus' movement value but it's absolutely worth increasing their resilience by that much.

I just played a game against Death Guard a little bit ago with my Guard. I find it to be silly to try and walk Typhus up the board against even a non-optimized Guard army. T5 is essentially worthless against Guard. The Poxwalkers, and everything else in the army got shredded before it got there since it all walked (besides the 3 Drones I focused fire on first).

I would have been much more scared if Typhus and a group of Terminators teleported behind, or close to my lines and began shooting/chopping. Doing that, they will either draw fire off the rest of your army allowing the Poxwalkers a chance to get into melee and multiply. Or, your opponent will ignore Typhus and crew and you can start pulling my squishy dudes into melee, forcing me to waste orders on falling back with the survivors so they can still shoot.

Of the 40 Poxwalkers in my opponents list at 1,500, only 5 made it within 9". Typhus was worthless the whole game because he was walking. The scariest things I have faced as a Guard player against Death Guard have been your Drones and anything that can fly, or move 6" plus a turn.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
If you think it's not viable to have typhus escort the poxwalkers, that means that you're not taking enough poxwalkers. Also, typhus making your squad of 6 point dudes T5 with the spell is not to be underestimated. Makes bolters wound you on 5's. That's a big deal.

The poxwalkers can be a little limited by typhus' movement value but it's absolutely worth increasing their resilience by that much.

I just played a game against Death Guard a little bit ago with my Guard. I find it to be silly to try and walk Typhus up the board against even a non-optimized Guard army. T5 is essentially worthless against Guard. The Poxwalkers, and everything else in the army got shredded before it got there since it all walked (besides the 3 Drones I focused fire on first).

I would have been much more scared if Typhus and a group of Terminators teleported behind, or close to my lines and began shooting/chopping. Doing that, they will either draw fire off the rest of your army allowing the Poxwalkers a chance to get into melee and multiply. Or, your opponent will ignore Typhus and crew and you can start pulling my squishy dudes into melee, forcing me to waste orders on falling back with the survivors so they can still shoot.

Of the 40 Poxwalkers in my opponents list at 1,500, only 5 made it within 9". Typhus was worthless the whole game because he was walking. The scariest things I have faced as a Guard player against Death Guard have been your Drones and anything that can fly, or move 6" plus a turn.

How do you even let someone teleport behind you? Your troops cost nothing. You can clutter up your entire line across the breath of the table to leave no space free for deep strikers without incurring much cost.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
If you think it's not viable to have typhus escort the poxwalkers, that means that you're not taking enough poxwalkers. Also, typhus making your squad of 6 point dudes T5 with the spell is not to be underestimated. Makes bolters wound you on 5's. That's a big deal.

The poxwalkers can be a little limited by typhus' movement value but it's absolutely worth increasing their resilience by that much.

I just played a game against Death Guard a little bit ago with my Guard. I find it to be silly to try and walk Typhus up the board against even a non-optimized Guard army. T5 is essentially worthless against Guard. The Poxwalkers, and everything else in the army got shredded before it got there since it all walked (besides the 3 Drones I focused fire on first).

I would have been much more scared if Typhus and a group of Terminators teleported behind, or close to my lines and began shooting/chopping. Doing that, they will either draw fire off the rest of your army allowing the Poxwalkers a chance to get into melee and multiply. Or, your opponent will ignore Typhus and crew and you can start pulling my squishy dudes into melee, forcing me to waste orders on falling back with the survivors so they can still shoot.

Of the 40 Poxwalkers in my opponents list at 1,500, only 5 made it within 9". Typhus was worthless the whole game because he was walking. The scariest things I have faced as a Guard player against Death Guard have been your Drones and anything that can fly, or move 6" plus a turn.

Glad we got perspective of shooty army player.

Pox are garbage and slow down Typhus a lot - he should either teleport strike with terminators and support them with spells, his scythe/pistol or get there via Land Raider.

And if we cast miasma and vitality on pox - we are not casting it on units that actually count and can do something more than waste half of game moving in position to maybe pull of charge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

snottlebocket wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
If you think it's not viable to have typhus escort the poxwalkers, that means that you're not taking enough poxwalkers. Also, typhus making your squad of 6 point dudes T5 with the spell is not to be underestimated. Makes bolters wound you on 5's. That's a big deal.

The poxwalkers can be a little limited by typhus' movement value but it's absolutely worth increasing their resilience by that much.

I just played a game against Death Guard a little bit ago with my Guard. I find it to be silly to try and walk Typhus up the board against even a non-optimized Guard army. T5 is essentially worthless against Guard. The Poxwalkers, and everything else in the army got shredded before it got there since it all walked (besides the 3 Drones I focused fire on first).

I would have been much more scared if Typhus and a group of Terminators teleported behind, or close to my lines and began shooting/chopping. Doing that, they will either draw fire off the rest of your army allowing the Poxwalkers a chance to get into melee and multiply. Or, your opponent will ignore Typhus and crew and you can start pulling my squishy dudes into melee, forcing me to waste orders on falling back with the survivors so they can still shoot.

Of the 40 Poxwalkers in my opponents list at 1,500, only 5 made it within 9". Typhus was worthless the whole game because he was walking. The scariest things I have faced as a Guard player against Death Guard have been your Drones and anything that can fly, or move 6" plus a turn.

How do you even let someone teleport behind you? Your troops cost nothing. You can clutter up your entire line across the breath of the table to leave no space free for deep strikers without incurring much cost.

Then teleport in front and start scything down them - suboptimal ? You going to do this anyway if you go by foot. Still better than going there on foot from your deployment zone. At least you will have slight chance to get through them if you start early (i mean conscripts).

BTW : I'm shocked with prices for this week DG models. Compared to recent GW prices - those are relatively cheap.

Especially foul Blightspawn - I must say he is WAY cheaper than primaris apothecary/librarian. That is good sign - rest elite could be priced same. And it may not be stupid to take 2 of those guys.

Typhus also priced okay - he is slightly more than Primaris Captain - I will take it. Blightlords - completely fine , will take them over deathshroud who need buff.

mario88826 wrote:
For shooty unit it's pointless to go beyond 5. For CC actually I would only take squad of ~~ 8 - 9 dudes. Since before going into CC they will throw some grenade love buffed by biologus.

Yep, for assault I'd go to 9 with the putrifier in a rhino, 8 if you want to bring something else like a chaos lord. But still wouldn't run them at seven. Little sad for everyone who likes being fluffy.

What do you guys think for melee loadout? I'm running a single squad of 9 down the field in a rhino, I'm currently leaning toward two flails and then double knives for everyone else. The axe is fairly decent, I'm just not sure it's adding that much against the weak and low armor units they normally fight. Maybe a few axes mixed in would be fine. Could be a decent way to round out a list

I just can't get over the idea that plaguemarines mostly have the illusion of resiliency.

Most armies have no problem scything through armour 3+ with a 5+ DI. I feel like sending those expensive plague marines into an assault is lambs to the slaughter. Just waiting to be shot down.

COLD CASH wrote:


I would suggest epidemius, he makes your list very strong!

I don't doubt that... But until he gets a new model, I just can't. Jeez his model is both hideous and annoying to build. A shame. Maybe, maybe I will test him out but sub out for the new snail dude to counts-as.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverAlien wrote:
I'm just going to point out there is no reason to run 7 plague marines to a squad. I know it's a fluff thing but it's a tactic thread so I'm going to point it out in case someone convinced themselves it adds durability to the unit or is in some way a strong choice.

Yea, fluff reason for my list, on top of it being my only squad so I wanted more actual Plague Marines in my DG list.

snottlebocket wrote:
I just can't get over the idea that plaguemarines mostly have the illusion of resiliency.

Most armies have no problem scything through armour 3+ with a 5+ DI. I feel like sending those expensive plague marines into an assault is lambs to the slaughter. Just waiting to be shot down.

You got it right Snottlebocket , it's true. And yeah they die like flies , because after all they are still just 1 wound.

But there are ways to actually put them to good use - either in transport or in cover. And in cover they are really nasty to remove with 2+ / 5T and FNP - that is real deal .

And hey you can get cover from blight haulers .

All you need is this magical 2+ and/or 6T with spell - this is MASSIVE improvement against weapons like assault cannon. Like huge improvement.

This or hide them in clouds of flies if you don't want haulers - and other PM units covering your backlines / holding objective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverAlien wrote:

mario88826 wrote:
For shooty unit it's pointless to go beyond 5. For CC actually I would only take squad of ~~ 8 - 9 dudes. Since before going into CC they will throw some grenade love buffed by biologus.

Yep, for assault I'd go to 9 with the putrifier in a rhino, 8 if you want to bring something else like a chaos lord. But still wouldn't run them at seven. Little sad for everyone who likes being fluffy.

What do you guys think for melee loadout? I'm running a single squad of 9 down the field in a rhino, I'm currently leaning toward two flails and then double knives for everyone else. The axe is fairly decent, I'm just not sure it's adding that much against the weak and low armor units they normally fight. Maybe a few axes mixed in would be fine. Could be a decent way to round out a list

This all depends if you really reserve blades spell just for your CC marines. That is crucial part - if you do then 2 knives are enough to wound/mortal wound anyone around , especially with combo of veteran of long war. Stupid knives mortal wound on 5+ - that is crazy.

But normally if I will go CC - I will equip them all with axes - they are VERY good. 5S is like breaking moment where you in worst case wound even land raider on 5+ , solid AP and rerolling wounds is worth it. So it's 2 x flail and rest axes , no flamers - you don't want them at all since you want to shoot grenades.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
If you think it's not viable to have typhus escort the poxwalkers, that means that you're not taking enough poxwalkers. Also, typhus making your squad of 6 point dudes T5 with the spell is not to be underestimated. Makes bolters wound you on 5's. That's a big deal.

The poxwalkers can be a little limited by typhus' movement value but it's absolutely worth increasing their resilience by that much.

Of the 40 Poxwalkers in my opponents list at 1,500, only 5 made it within 9". Typhus was worthless the whole game because he was walking. The scariest things I have faced as a Guard player against Death Guard have been your Drones and anything that can fly, or move 6" plus a turn.

40 poxwalkers is not enough, even at 1500. If I'm playing at 2000, I have 60 plus the 70 cultists that will turn into poxwalkers when they die.

So how you you feel about 99 cultists getting within 9"? Since you can kill 31 or so. Oh and I hope you kill that 40 man cultist squad to the man; otherwise I'll get 40 more poxwalkers when they die.

Of course, I'm not going to have EVERY cultist that dies be next to the poxwalkers, and it gets even more true if the opponent focuses the cultists before I get a turn. But that's at -1 to hit for them and that's still a lot of wounds my poxwalkers aren't taking.

I do respect that you're not playing competitively though. And yes, non-competitive Death Guard poses absolutely no threat to non-competitive guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mario88826 wrote:

Glad we got perspective of shooty army player.

Pox are garbage and slow down Typhus a lot - he should either teleport strike with terminators and support them with spells, his scythe/pistol or get there via Land Raider.

Glad you're using the perspective of a self-admitted non-competitive player to justify why a competitive strategy won't work instead of actually addressing the strategy itself

Also this has to be said - anyone justifying the use of a land raider to transport an aura buff model that can also deep strike really needs to re-think what they mean by "competitive tactics". So many things wrong with that idea.

 luke1705 wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
If you think it's not viable to have typhus escort the poxwalkers, that means that you're not taking enough poxwalkers. Also, typhus making your squad of 6 point dudes T5 with the spell is not to be underestimated. Makes bolters wound you on 5's. That's a big deal.

The poxwalkers can be a little limited by typhus' movement value but it's absolutely worth increasing their resilience by that much.

Of the 40 Poxwalkers in my opponents list at 1,500, only 5 made it within 9". Typhus was worthless the whole game because he was walking. The scariest things I have faced as a Guard player against Death Guard have been your Drones and anything that can fly, or move 6" plus a turn.

40 poxwalkers is not enough, even at 1500. If I'm playing at 2000, I have 60 plus the 70 cultists that will turn into poxwalkers when they die.

So how you you feel about 99 cultists getting within 9"? Since you can kill 31 or so. Oh and I hope you kill that 40 man cultist squad to the man; otherwise I'll get 40 more poxwalkers when they die.

Of course, I'm not going to have EVERY cultist that dies be next to the poxwalkers, and it gets even more true if the opponent focuses the cultists before I get a turn. But that's at -1 to hit for them and that's still a lot of wounds my poxwalkers aren't taking.

I do respect that you're not playing competitively though. And yes, non-competitive Death Guard poses absolutely no threat to non-competitive guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mario88826 wrote:

Glad we got perspective of shooty army player.

Pox are garbage and slow down Typhus a lot - he should either teleport strike with terminators and support them with spells, his scythe/pistol or get there via Land Raider.

Glad you're using the perspective of a self-admitted non-competitive player to justify why a competitive strategy won't work instead of actually addressing the strategy itself

Also this has to be said - anyone justifying the use of a land raider to transport an aura buff model that can also deep strike really needs to re-think what they mean by "competitive tactics". So many things wrong with that idea.

Yeah, I understand that my perspective is a bit off since we were just playing a fun game and not being incredibly competitive. We were just testing out lists for our casual weekly 1,500 tournament.

I really don't have an answer to the 60 Poxwalkers plus 70 Cultists right now without facing it a few times. But how many other points are you sinking into that module? I don't use Conscripts, and have a screen of Rough Riders which won't feed Poxwalkers since they aren't infantry. It actually took the unit of Walkers a decent amount of time to chew through the 2 wound Rough Riders while the other squad of zombies got shot to pieces, freeing me up to switch gear and dump everything in range into the second unit of Poxwalkers which was further back.

For now I would just pray that we get one of the deployment types that has us on the short edges of the table instead of the long ones. I can see the validity of Tyhpus walking with the zombies, I was just trying to point out that it doesn't seem to be the best solution in all cases.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

COLD CASH wrote:


I would suggest epidemius, he makes your list very strong!

I don't doubt that... But until he gets a new model, I just can't. Jeez his model is both hideous and annoying to build. A shame. Maybe, maybe I will test him out but sub out for the new snail dude to counts-as.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverAlien wrote:
I'm just going to point out there is no reason to run 7 plague marines to a squad. I know it's a fluff thing but it's a tactic thread so I'm going to point it out in case someone convinced themselves it adds durability to the unit or is in some way a strong choice.

Yea, fluff reason for my list, on top of it being my only squad so I wanted more actual Plague Marines in my DG list.

Im using the snail guy as epidemius looks way better and i can use him as near anything similiar. Beast - Palanquin sorcerer - chaos spawn - giant chaos spawn!

6 death shrouds + a terminator sorcerer for warp time, worth it?

I'm somewhat unimpressed with the blightlords, especially since the kit has such paltry parts offerings.

Shrouds look like they can feth some stuff up, provided they get to charge on the turn they deep strike.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:


I really don't have an answer to the 60 Poxwalkers plus 70 Cultists right now without facing it a few times. But how many other points are you sinking into that module? I don't use Conscripts, and have a screen of Rough Riders which won't feed Poxwalkers since they aren't infantry. It actually took the unit of Walkers a decent amount of time to chew through the 2 wound Rough Riders while the other squad of zombies got shot to pieces, freeing me up to switch gear and dump everything in range into the second unit of Poxwalkers which was further back.

For now I would just pray that we get one of the deployment types that has us on the short edges of the table instead of the long ones. I can see the validity of Tyhpus walking with the zombies, I was just trying to point out that it doesn't seem to be the best solution in all cases.

You’re right that in long deployments it can be somewhat problematic. Against guard, at least, I probably do have less deployments (usually) so I feel better about letting Typhus deep strike in turn 1, so he can move in front of the poxwalkers, letting him keep up. He would still be protected from shooting by the unit(s) of cultists, which in my list at least are in a normal CSM Detachment (Alpha legion) so they could infiltrate forward if need be. Or just move 6 plus run. That makes typhus able to keep up with the pox because he starts ahead of them.

Typhus making the pox t4 against str 3 weapons is absolutely huge. You’re right that my strategy outlined is about 1000 points for those models plus the core HQ models for both detachments. Throw in Mortarion and it’s 1400 or so. It’s a ton of points. But even dedicated competitive guard struggles to kill that many t4 models fast enough. Especially because the rest of my list can kill those models (zerks in a rhino, noise marines, etc). Essentially, I think people just underestimate what would happen if a squad of 40 str 5 pox show up as a result of this strategy, re-rolling all hits because of the tallyman and benefiting from the -1 T aura that Mortarion gives (so wounding guard on 2’s). It’s nasty.

I wanted to post SEVEN things it seems some people may have not noticed or considered about the new Death Guard Codex.

1) If you take 3-Haulers you are forced to keep them next to each other and it severely restricts your ability to spread out your cover save buff aura. I didn't see anything that lets them become separate units.

2) If you buy a unit of 3-Haulers and a single model is killed you no longer get the +1 to hit anymore. It states you only get +1 while it contains 3 models. It makes it a waste to do this.

3) The Tallyman and Foul Blighspawn have no melee attack profiles at all. I have never seen any unit other than these two like this. Does this mean they can't attack at all in close combat? It seems odd the guy who buffs all death guard in the fight phase can't fight.

4) After looking at the Primarius Marines I just realized how much better they are for +1 point than Death Guard as being the resilient infantry. The +1 wound, 30" bolters, with -1 AP far exceeds a Plague Marine. It quickly made me realize either Primarius Marines are undercosted or Plague Marines are overcosted.

5) The fleshmower looks awesome as a models but it kinda sucks. Only 6 attacks get the +2 STR the other 3 attacks must be the plague probe. The best option still is the plaguespitter since it can run and shoot and really hurts units who assault them. It can also leave combat and shoot at a diffrent unit. Having a it auto hit also means that mitigates the 4+ problem the fleshmower has.

6) The Plaguecrawler is super survivable (more than land raider against many threats). Don't over rely on the mortar. It is just a worse version of a basilisk.

7) Making a Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince your general with the Arch-Contaminator and Fugaris' Helm allows you to reroll 1s within a 18"+ circle and all plauge weapon wounds within a 20"+ circle (The (+) is due to the additional base size of the Prince/Lord and only needing one model within range for a unit.

general warning :

It'd be better for all if we stuck to debating the issues/arguments and refrained from making digs/cracks at other posters if we disagree.

@luke1705

Last warning - your personall harassment is against TOS of this site.

If you won't give up , you will force mods hand.

And don't blame me for it.

Despite me ignoring you long time ago, you spew more toxin at me than Mortarion himself, normally I wouldn't notice - since i ignored you , but I still see this fallout you spew at me in quotes.

I'm actually pretty serious now.

I'm not even starting discussion with you again - because I'm above such stuff. But you are asking for 3rd party involvment, so don't be surprised if your actions here will be taken into moderation sooner or later.

You are completely free to disagree with my tactics/oppinion but you are not entitled to throw gak at me all the time. Especially that you weren't right single time in your statements.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 reds8n wrote:
general warning :

It'd be better for all if we stuck to debating the issues/arguments and refrained from making digs/cracks at other posters if we disagree.

Thanks for fast response. Quiet surprised it works so fast actually lol.

 luke1705 wrote:

40 poxwalkers is not enough, even at 1500. If I'm playing at 2000, I have 60 plus the 70 cultists that will turn into poxwalkers when they die.

I concur. Our local Death Guard players have generally been running at least 80 to 100 at 1500 points with the rest of the army being characters to force their opponent to waste the first few turns shooting moral immune chaff while taking multiple smites in return.

broxus wrote:

3) The Tallyman and Foul Blighspawn have no melee attack profiles at all. I have never seen any unit other than these two like this. Does this mean they can't attack at all in close combat? It seems odd the guy who buffs all death guard in the fight phase can't fight.

Well yeah when you compare to others Plague Marines are expensive as hell.
Just like when you compare pox to other cannon fodder. Slow, weak in CC, not resilient at all. Just immune to morale.

But still that ain't crictical issue as we got access to other troops.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

I don't see anything stopping you from allocating the Drone's 3 attacks to the weapon, as the ability shares the exact same wording as the Chainsword. Most weapons that are done outside of the model's attacks characteristic have a "after performing attacks" before describing how many attacks the weapon makes (see the various chariot models for examples).

There isn’t. You get 9 attacks. Really, all of the drones are fabulous. They’re stupidly hard to kill and have pretty good offensive output. The flamers are amazing against hordes, especially if you have an arch contaminator nearby. 9 attacks in close combat is amazing, especially if you make them +1 to hit (maybe not super worth using prescience on them and I don’t know if you can otherwise, but in a pinch it’s nice). I’m still thinking the maulerfiend is probably a little better though (in a CSM Detachment) because of the stratagem that lets it re-roll everything. But the drone doesn’t degrade and is DR. I’m least sold on the long range shooty version but it’ll keep firing at full effectiveness until it drops, which will be a long time most likely. Only reason I don’t like it quite as much is because you pay a lot of point for it’s cc weapon, so you’re either not using that or not using the range to it’s fullest if you run up and chop things. I think my tank of choice will still be the crawler, but I’m probably a little biased because I love that model

broxus wrote:
I wanted to post SEVEN things it seems some people may have not noticed or considered about the new Death Guard Codex.

1) If you take 3-Haulers you are forced to keep them next to each other and it severely restricts your ability to spread out your cover save buff aura. I didn't see anything that lets them become separate units.

2) If you buy a unit of 3-Haulers and a single model is killed you no longer get the +1 to hit anymore. It states you only get +1 while it contains 3 models. It makes it a waste to do this.

3) The Tallyman and Foul Blighspawn have no melee attack profiles at all. I have never seen any unit other than these two like this. Does this mean they can't attack at all in close combat? It seems odd the guy who buffs all death guard in the fight phase can't fight.

4) After looking at the Primarius Marines I just realized how much better they are for +1 point than Death Guard as being the resilient infantry. The +1 wound, 30" bolters, with -1 AP far exceeds a Plague Marine. It quickly made me realize either Primarius Marines are undercosted or Plague Marines are overcosted.

5) The fleshmower looks awesome as a models but it kinda sucks. Only 6 attacks get the +2 STR the other 3 attacks must be the plague probe. The best option still is the plaguespitter since it can run and shoot and really hurts units who assault them. It can also leave combat and shoot at a diffrent unit. Having a it auto hit also means that mitigates the 4+ problem the fleshmower has.

6) The Plaguecrawler is super survivable (more than land raider against many threats). Don't over rely on the mortar. It is just a worse version of a basilisk.

7) Making a Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince your general with the Arch-Contaminator and Fugaris' Helm allows you to reroll 1s within a 18"+ circle and all plauge weapon wounds within a 20"+ circle (The (+) is due to the additional base size of the Prince/Lord and only needing one model within range for a unit.

Yup, I second alot of these things. Except I am not so sure about the fleshmower. I was under the impression all 9 attacks get the benefit. Anyway about the Hauler. Just get it for some shooting, as distraction carnefix (hopefully), and don't get too fixated on getting the +1 to hit. In fact, I would think that unless you had like tons of squads all spread out and needed such a waide cover save coverage, just take one Hauler will do. Nowadays there is no penalty for clumping units together anyway. Its quite possible to clump a few units within that 7 inch cover bubble.

The +1 to hit is not really that important because the guns on the Hauler aren't really such a big deal. I mean, they are decent, but they aren't going to win you the game. And even if you are going shooty, they aren't that efficient in terms of trying to spam haulers just for its guns. So, just bring 1, at most 2 to cover your whole army and don't get hung up about the +1 to hit. I mean, look at our hellbrutes. They come with BS 3+ and a multimelta, and you can put a twin lascannon on them too, but I don't really think a hellbrute's guns has ever been considered very shooty. The Hauler is the same except its BS 4+ makes it even less efficient from a shooting standpoint (although its more resilient).

@Eldenfirefly I agree no more than 2 haulers. No need to buy 3 as some have mentioned.

On another note, I wonder about the viability of spamming plague marines for their blight launchers and plasma guns on champion. Each minimum squad of 5 can take two blight launchers and one plasma gun (on the champ). If we skimp on any special CC weapons, the squad is barely 136 points. 6 of these squads adds up to just 816 points and would fill up all 6 slots in a battalion detachment. Then throw in a Daemon Prince or chaos lord with fugris helm and archcontaminator for the reroll 1 to hit and reroll to wound on my blight launchers. Have Mortarion charging in with cheap plague drones or blight drones separately. If he gets into range, he will lower all the toughness within 7 inches and then those blight launchers will now be wounding on 2s. The Daemon Prince can be the countercharge for anything trying to threathen the whole group in melee. And they will have more things to worry about with Mortarion and his drone escorts. But leave them alone, and its 36 shots each turn, which is very decent.

broxus wrote:
I wanted to post SEVEN things it seems some people may have not noticed or considered about the new Death Guard Codex.

1) If you take 3-Haulers you are forced to keep them next to each other and it severely restricts your ability to spread out your cover save buff aura. I didn't see anything that lets them become separate units.

2) If you buy a unit of 3-Haulers and a single model is killed you no longer get the +1 to hit anymore. It states you only get +1 while it contains 3 models. It makes it a waste to do this.

4) After looking at the Primarius Marines I just realized how much better they are for +1 point than Death Guard as being the resilient infantry. The +1 wound, 30" bolters, with -1 AP far exceeds a Plague Marine. It quickly made me realize either Primarius Marines are undercosted or Plague Marines are overcosted.

7) Making a Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince your general with the Arch-Contaminator and Fugaris' Helm allows you to reroll 1s within a 18"+ circle and all plauge weapon wounds within a 20"+ circle (The (+) is due to the additional base size of the Prince/Lord and only needing one model within range for a unit.

1/2). I agree, though I would say it's more a matter of haulers not being worth taking period. You pay space marine prices for the guns, meaning the same price as a unit with a 3+ would, yet only get a 4+, and they aren't even particularly good guns. The buff is nice but we don't have anything that benefits greatly. Going from a 3+ to a 2+ is great, but PM are awful as ranged troops right and rhinos are more cost effective for melee units. Cultists could work, but 6+ to 5+ isn't really worth that price tag. Nor is a 6+ on pox walkers, who shouldn't be moving forward anyways as they are not an offensive unit.

4). Plague marines are just bad, mostly. They have one advantage in that they can be loaded down with good melee gear and act as slightly more expensive yet significantly tougher melee chosen with better options. Not that melee chosen are exactly a popular unit, but that and blight bombardment are the only things they do well.

7). The helm specifically mentions auras on the unit's datasheet, so I'm not sure it applies to the warlord trait.

Also, to the people who keep discussing this, poxwalkers are not an offensive unit. Cultists with auto guns do the same job far better, given they have 18" RF auto guns and aren't a 4" move melee unit, plus are cheaper. 30 normal cultists put out the same damage as 20 buffed pox walkers, don't need a 170 point hq babysitting them and wasting his potential, and won't take 3 turns to do anything.

Pox walkers sit in the back and screen. If you are considering them for any other purpose, it's a bad idea. Another unit will do the same task better. Do not pour resources into a unit that will never reward the effort.

@Eldenfirefly I really like the idea maxing out plague marine squads. I think they can throw out an insane amount of firepower. I just don't think that blightlaunchers are better than plasma especially since it is not an option for the sergeant. They just all around are better and don't require Mortarian to lower toughness or rerolls to wound. I wish it wasn't the case, but I will be running 3 plasmas in each squad. If you go this direction it may be worth taking a few haulers and maybe a surgeon to make them even more survivable.

@Silveralien Arch Contagian is an aura so it should be benefited from the helm. Also, I don't think that PM are bad, but are likely overpriced by a point or two. Finally, I agree about poxwalkers. I can see on occasion they could be awesome especially against conscript hordes using a strategem. However, they are just to slow and require to much babysitting Typhus and psychic abilites to be of any real value. If they were 5 points they may be worth it IMHO. However, I personally would rather take more PM, cultists, or Plaguebearers (the best of all troops in the book).

Well, I wouldn't say plague marines can throw out an insane amount of firepower, but if you are comparing them with normal CSM, then they are more efficient. (shocking I know, but true).

Let's say you want to take 3 plasma guns on a normal CSM squad, then you would need to have a squad of ten, and have the sergeant take a combi plasma. This works out to 171 points. That's for 10 models.

You can get the same 3 plasma guns from a 5 man plague marine squad for just 134 points, which is substantially less. And ultimately, its a tough little squad too, since we are talking about T5 models with DR. Maybe not quite as tough as a 10 man squad, but I think its close. More importantly, you can start firing those plasma guns almost from turn 1, whereas the same CSM squad may need at least two turns to get into position to double tap those plasma guns if they are footslogging up. If they are using a Rhino, then add the cost of the Rhino to the whole thing.

What is really crazy 6 squads can put out 36 plasma shots a turn when they rapid fire at 18". That brings the pain for a reasonable price. They can be overcharged if needed depending on the target.

And the more I think about it, the more I think the Hauler isn't needed. You want to keep things efficient. The Hauler isn't really that shooty, and it adds to the cost of your 36 plasma shot platform. Just let them fire at T5 plague marines with DR if they so wish. The key thing is, if you kept the cost under control by just using the barebones 5-man squads with 3 plasma guns, then you have lots of points left over for other threats like Mortarion, and his drone escort. Plague marines are already resilient enough and they pay for that with their higher points per model, so just let them be shot at if the opponent wants to shoot them!

broxus wrote:
What is really crazy 6 squads can put out 36 plasma shots a turn when they rapid fire at 18". That brings the pain for a reasonable price. They can be overcharged if needed depending on the target.

A reasonable price? You pay over 800 points for that. 20 helblasters will output 40 plasma shots for around 650 points and they can deploy in rapid fire range with the ravenguard stratagem.

broxus wrote:
What is really crazy 6 squads can put out 36 plasma shots a turn when they rapid fire at 18". That brings the pain for a reasonable price. They can be overcharged if needed depending on the target.

I think it may not be that easy to keep your lord/prince always in range for all 6 squads tbh. And even if you do - you can't control any objective lol. Since they will all stick together.

It's more tabling tactic than anything I assume.

Unless you plan to shoot a lot without OH - but then what is the point ?

My 2k list is probably going to be something like:

HQ: Lord of Contagion, Malignant Plaguecaster
Elites: Deathshroud, Biologus Putrifier, Foul Blightspawn, Tallyman
Troops: 7x Marines (2x Blight Launchers, PF/Sword/Plasma Champ), 7x Marines (2x Plasma, PF/Sword/Plasma Champ), 7x Marines (1x 2 Knife, 1x Axe, 2x Flail, 2x Mace/Ace, PF/Sword Champ), 10x Poxwalkers
Fast: 2x Blight-Haulers
Heavy: 2x Plagueburst Crawlers
Transport: Rhino (for CC Marine squad, Blightspawn and Biologus)

I mainly like the vehicles and want to avoid doing poxwalker spam because I don't like it and it's too gimmicky.