Classic Battletech Is Awesome: the Thread!

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**Mr Morden**

Thanks for the fabulous comparison images!

The Knights may a bit smaller but they are really chunky so I think them staying as Heavies (which given they are about 75 tons is nice) is cool. Think I will get a box of them and do some rule conversions....

**Stormonu**

Is not ironic that a ‘mech carrying essentially two rapid-fire battle cannons, a missile pod and a gun cluster (Multi-melta) would be named “Warhammer”?

BattleTech Titanicus (Battle Techicus?) would be an interesting game - better as Classic or Alpha Strike?

**master of ordinance**

Did someone say "Imperator"?

Spoiler:

Knight too

Spoiler:

**Elbows**

I know it's in fitting with the Battletech scale/weight thing, but 400 tons is borderline laughable

(this is not a harsh critique, but we have main battle tanks that roll around at 70 tons and are...1/200th the size of an Imperator if not smaller)

**simonr1978**

Elbows wrote:
I know it's in fitting with the Battletech scale/weight thing, but 400 tons is borderline laughable (this is not a harsh critique, but we have main battle tanks that roll around at 70 tons and are...1/200th the size of an Imperator if not smaller)

That's why I suggested earlier re-naming it as a Construction Factor or something similar rather than tonnage, I think you need to break away from the idea that this number is the tonnage of the Titan for it to work with anything larger than Knights. It would mean that playing Titan-tech wouldn't be entirely compatible with Battletech, but I don't think that's what anyone was after anyway, to portray a Titan in a Battletech game you'd probably have to treat it like a grounded Dropship as a starting point.

The Battletech tonnage system is somewhat dubious anyway, under the original construction system you couldn't have made a PzVIII Maus for example and it gets even more glaring when you consider water craft where even a Flower Class Corvette or a type VII U-Boat are far too massive to be constructed in 3025 (Before anyone points it out, I am aware that larger traditional ships at least made their way back into the fluff fairly recently but they're still not constructable under the existing Battletech rules AFAIK) or aircraft where the likes of a Boeing 747 or even a fully laden B-29 are too big and heavy for Battletech.

But being realistic here, let's face it, the only reason 100 tonnes was picked as the upper limit for Battlemech construction and the reason why Battlemechs increase in weight in 5 tonne increments rather than us having for example, 107 tonne assault mechs, is that these were nice, round numbers which were settled on early in the evolution of the game. The same applies to a certain degree at the other end of the spectrum too of course.

Regarding the Emperor Titan as posted above:

Walking Speed: 1
Running Speed: 2

Assuming that you'd be playing this on a tabletop rather than a hex-map, I'd be inclined to reduce the running speed down to 1.5. Tabletop ranges and movements doubled in inches according to the official rules IIRC, so you'd still be moving at a 3" run, but it will be and IMO should be a very slow plod across the Battlefield.

**Mr Morden**

Some interesting stats and some great work -

I am working on 75 base for tons for Knights with the only real issue how to do the Ion Shields - thinking ablative regenerating armour that work on three chosen hexes at the moment?

re Melta guns -be nice to continue the idea of close range shots are more effective - which I donlt think has an analogue in BT?

I am not sure that the Titans are actually that slow - they are less manoeuvrable which again not sure how to do in BattleTech.

I think a 400ton Warhound would be fine and about as high as I would go

**simonr1978**

Mr Morden wrote:
Some interesting stats and some great work -

I am working on 75 base for tons for Knights with the only real issue how to do the Ion Shields - thinking ablative regenerating armour that work on three chosen hexes at the moment?

I think that sounds like it would work quite well.

re Melta guns -be nice to continue the idea of close range shots are more effective - which I donlt think has an analogue in BT?

The Heavy Gauss Rifle might be a good equivilent or starting point, rules wise at least. IIRC Meltas were pretty short ranged so you'd probably need to adjust the stats to reflect that, perhaps as much as half them and of course they'd be energy rather than ballistic weapons. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Heavy_Gauss_Rifle

I am not sure that the Titans are actually that slow - they are less manoeuvrable which again not sure how to do in BattleTech.

If I was looking to reflect this I'd probably limit them to only being able to turn one hex facing per turn. To turn 180 they'd either have to stand on the spot for three turns minimum or they'd have a turning circle of sorts with the radius dependent on how much they were moving. You could use a sliding scale to make the smaller titans gradually more manouevrable.

The problem as far as movement goes though is that unless you come up with rules for fitting more than one engine per chassis, at 400 tonnes the fastest you can make a mech go is W1/R2. It wouldn't be impossible to come up with something reasonably practical though, you could allocate the appropriate number of criticals to the side torsos as well, giving you up to 3x400 rating standard engines for a maximum of W3/R5, dropping to W2/R3 then W1/R2 if one or two of the engines are taken out. I don't think you'd need separate gyros, but you need to allocate the appropriate tonnage for the equivalent of a 1,200 rating engine.

**Mr Morden**

My next thought is to use Battletech rules but not all the build restrictions - so I might just give a Knight or a Warhound a speed wihout cross refencing the engine size.

So from Imperial armour I know its 400 tons with a top speed (off road) of 42kph - can base it around that.

So something like this:

Spoiler:

**simonr1978**

Mr Morden wrote:
My next thought is to use Battletech rules but not all the build restrictions - so I might just give a Knight or a Warhound a speed wihout cross refencing the engine size.

I'd have some reservations about that approach since the engine size dictates its tonnage, which in turn dictates how much tonnage you have spare for armour and weapons, it's a pretty central part of the construction rules. I appreciate that going over 100 tonnes such as for light Titans would mean making compromises (For example, mounting multiple engines), especially if you're having to invent some weapons and equipment, but it is a balancing mechanic for construction.

So from Imperial armour I know its 400 tons with a top speed (off road) of 42kph - can base it around that.
So something like this:

Spoiler:

It's tricky to gauge the speed since in Battletech there's no difference for mechs in terms of road or cross-country speed on the flat and in the open, in fact considering you have to take piloting skill checks for turning on roads and pavements when running the two are probably roughly equal in many circumstances. I'd probably equate that figure as a W3/R5 personally, but there's not a lot in it.

I personally think you need to make the weapons far more effective, both in terms of range and damage. Assuming a one-on-one engagement, even with a maximum run of 6, they're going to take forever to get into effective range, anything beyond medium range you're probably looking at an 11 or 12 or more (in other words impossible) to hit roll on 2D6 and at medium range you're probably usually not looking at much better than around a 25% hit probability, Extreme range you'll never use outside of against an immobilised target or having a super-elite pilot. The alternative is to lower the base To Hit number, but then you'll start running into actual or effective auto-hits at close range.

I'd personally give the Melta the range profile of at least a Clan small pulse laser or Inner Sphere medium and make the Thermal cannon more like an Inner Sphere Large Laser, also increase the damage for your weapons by at least 50%, otherwise the likelihood is they're going to struggle to even wear down the Ion shield never mind actually punch through it and start damaging the armour unless they're practically toe to toe. It may been necessary to increase the heat a little too, as it stands that Knight will normally be running pretty cool. I also think they should probably take up more criticals, a single critical is usually a small, compact secondary weapon on a 75 tonner, a main armament that sort of size of the Thermal Cannon should probably be somewhere around 3-5 criticals IMO, partly because unlike most heavy Battlemechs these are only mounting three weapons rather than potentially half a dozen or more plus other equipment, so you've got to have something to fill up what will be an otherwise very empty record sheet.

At a rough back-of-an-envelope type calculation, after engine/cockpit/gyro/internal structure you'd have something over 50 tonnes available for other equipment of which a fraction under 24 would be taken up with armour leaving you roughly 28 tonnes free for weapons. The Reaper as it stands would be less effective than a Battletech Hatchet or even just a kick, I'd be inclined to give it about 20-25 damage for about 7 tonnes and 4 or 5 criticals. I'd suggest around the same tonnage for the Thermal Cannon and a tonne or two for the MG plus ammo or Melta. Even allowing a few tonnes for the Ion shield this would leave roughly enough tonnage free to drop the XL Engine down to a standard engine or add quite a few more heat-sinks. (Edit, just noticed that you didn't mention XL engines here, for some reason I was sure you did.)

**Stormonu**

I think you’re putting too many points in the ion shield. Personally, I’d put it at 10 points, 15 at the most. As for coverage, it should be something like, “pick a hexside. The ion shield protect from that facing and each adjacent facing (3 hexsides total).

**simonr1978**

Assuming that the weapons are upgraded I think the Ion shield should be fine, the problem with it as it is there is that at 2 or 3 hexes range a pair of Knights could blast away at each other more or less indefinitely and they'd hardly ever get past the shield. Increasing the weapon's strength deals with that, plus even ignoring the shield for a moment, with a single main weapon system like this you need it to be doing a lot of damage when it hits otherwise realistically any game is going to drag on for far too long as opponents very slowly chip away at each other. The cannon as listed gives roughly the equivalent damage of a single short ranged AC-10 or AC-5 (Depending on whether you're hitting at short or medium+ range), which is very under-armed for something at the top of the Heavy class.

**master of ordinance**

It depends really - those stats would encourage a far more mobile form of play and make players want to flank the enemy to gain the most of things. If you include other combat vehicles into the mix then it could be a spicy situation with the Knights trying to keep the enemy knights in their shield arc whilst avoid being shredded by the smaller units.
And of course artillery would wreak havoc as well.

The big problem I see is the lack of speed.

**Mr Morden**

simonr1978 wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
My next thought is to use Battletech rules but not all the build restrictions - so I might just give a Knight or a Warhound a speed wihout cross refencing the engine size.

I'd have some reservations about that approach since the engine size dictates its tonnage, which in turn dictates how much tonnage you have spare for armour and weapons, it's a pretty central part of the construction rules. I appreciate that going over 100 tonnes such as for light Titans would mean making compromises (For example, mounting multiple engines), especially if you're having to invent some weapons and equipment, but it is a balancing mechanic for construction.

So from Imperial armour I know its 400 tons with a top speed (off road) of 42kph - can base it around that.
So something like this:

Spoiler:

It's tricky to gauge the speed since in Battletech there's no difference for mechs in terms of road or cross-country speed on the flat and in the open, in fact considering you have to take piloting skill checks for turning on roads and pavements when running the two are probably roughly equal in many circumstances. I'd probably equate that figure as a W3/R5 personally, but there's not a lot in it.

I personally think you need to make the weapons far more effective, both in terms of range and damage. Assuming a one-on-one engagement, even with a maximum run of 6, they're going to take forever to get into effective range, anything beyond medium range you're probably looking at an 11 or 12 or more (in other words impossible) to hit roll on 2D6 and at medium range you're probably usually not looking at much better than around a 25% hit probability, Extreme range you'll never use outside of against an immobilised target or having a super-elite pilot. The alternative is to lower the base To Hit number, but then you'll start running into actual or effective auto-hits at close range.

I'd personally give the Melta the range profile of at least a Clan small pulse laser or Inner Sphere medium and make the Thermal cannon more like an Inner Sphere Large Laser, also increase the damage for your weapons by at least 50%, otherwise the likelihood is they're going to struggle to even wear down the Ion shield never mind actually punch through it and start damaging the armour unless they're practically toe to toe. It may been necessary to increase the heat a little too, as it stands that Knight will normally be running pretty cool. I also think they should probably take up more criticals, a single critical is usually a small, compact secondary weapon on a 75 tonner, a main armament that sort of size of the Thermal Cannon should probably be somewhere around 3-5 criticals IMO, partly because unlike most heavy Battlemechs these are only mounting three weapons rather than potentially half a dozen or more plus other equipment, so you've got to have something to fill up what will be an otherwise very empty record sheet.

At a rough back-of-an-envelope type calculation, after engine/cockpit/gyro/internal structure you'd have something over 50 tonnes available for other equipment of which a fraction under 24 would be taken up with armour leaving you roughly 28 tonnes free for weapons. The Reaper as it stands would be less effective than a Battletech Hatchet or even just a kick, I'd be inclined to give it about 20-25 damage for about 7 tonnes and 4 or 5 criticals. I'd suggest around the same tonnage for the Thermal Cannon and a tonne or two for the MG plus ammo or Melta. Even allowing a few tonnes for the Ion shield this would leave roughly enough tonnage free to drop the XL Engine down to a standard engine or add quite a few more heat-sinks. (Edit, just noticed that you didn't mention XL engines here, for some reason I was sure you did.)

Thanks for that - really helpful and useful. Will have a bit of a play when I have time

**Stormonu**

Just pulled out Battletech over the weekend and had a go with a friend. Used my old copy of Heavymetal Pro to print out the mechs and laminate them. Ended up with a fight between a Battlemaster & Locust vs. Phoenix Hawk and Griffin.

The Locust did the 1,000 yard sprint and died when the Phoenix Hawk shot it dead center with a single ER Large laser. The Battlemaster gave a good show, took a pounding, including two head hits, a DFA from the Phoenix Hawk and a hip critical but kept fighting on. The Battlemaster finally died to a head shot from behind by the Phoenix Hawk. But I had the Griffin sweating - literally; it was on 13 on the heat scale (and rising), out of LRM's and no armor remaining in any location.

Got a few rules wrong (hey, it was around 1995 since the last time I played), but had great fun and would certainly like to do it again.

**Mmmpi**

Visiting home, pulled out my btech and some heavy gear stuff for the trip back home.

**Phobos**

So I saw this game for the first time today at a local game store. It looked cool and they were playing the Alpha Strike rules. I bought a Command, Recon, and Battle Lance $30. Pretty low buy in.

What have I gotten myself into?

**Mmmpi**

Phobos wrote:

What have I gotten myself into?

hopefully a fun time.

Phobos wrote:
So I saw this game for the first time today at a local game store. It looked cool and they were playing the Alpha Strike rules. I bought a Command, Recon, and Battle Lance $30. Pretty low buy in.

Yeah, that's a good start. I wouldn't worry about limiting what you use to the models in your collection, just run assault models as assaults, heavies as heavies, ect. Just write a note on the cards or record sheets for what each model is.

**Phobos**

OK WTF is wrong with the company making this game? All the boxes are out of stock everywhere along with the main rulebook. Some quick googling seems to be this is par for the course.

**Mmmpi**

Iron Wind Metals is the most consistent source of BTech minis.

**Charistoph**

Phobos wrote:
OK WTF is wrong with the company making this game? All the boxes are out of stock everywhere along with the main rulebook. Some quick googling seems to be this is par for the course.

A long history of lawsuits and threat of lawsuits from a company that only knows how to sue.

**Albertorius**

Charistoph wrote:
Phobos wrote:
OK WTF is wrong with the company making this game? All the boxes are out of stock everywhere along with the main rulebook. Some quick googling seems to be this is par for the course.

A long history of lawsuits and threat of lawsuits from a company that only knows how to sue.

Namely, Harmony Gold.

But regarding their stock issues, that has nothing to do with HG and everything to do with them being kind of screwups.

-= Edited to remove swearing - Lorek

**Charistoph**

Albertorius wrote:
Charistoph wrote:
Phobos wrote:
OK WTF is wrong with the company making this game? All the boxes are out of stock everywhere along with the main rulebook. Some quick googling seems to be this is par for the course.

A long history of lawsuits and threat of lawsuits from a company that only knows how to sue.

Namely, Harmony Gold.

But regarding their stock issues, that has nothing to do with HG and everything to do with them being kind of screwups.

-= Edited to remove swearing - Lorek

Merely recognizing the fact that the long history has lead to certain corporate types being a little... shy when it comes to doing proper releases.

**master of ordinance**

Phobos wrote:
OK WTF is wrong with the company making this game? All the boxes are out of stock everywhere along with the main rulebook. Some quick googling seems to be this is par for the course.

Good news, the new intro boxes (yes, 2 of them) are coming out in a couple of months.

**Albertorius**

master of ordinance wrote:
Phobos wrote:
OK WTF is wrong with the company making this game? All the boxes are out of stock everywhere along with the main rulebook. Some quick googling seems to be this is par for the course.

Good news, the new intro boxes (yes, 2 of them) are coming out in a couple of months.

This time for realsies? ^^

Ah well, in the meantime, I've got a new Hunchie:

**Mmmpi**

So, I brought my B.Tech stuff back to Japan after a visit to my mom.

Can't wait to add painting them to my list of projects. Also hoping my regular 40K opponent would be willing to try either BTech or Alpha strike at some point.

On a separate note, I have a handful of clan mechs. The Summoner and Hellbringer from the original starter box, the city tech mechs (which are tiny...) [Uller, Nova, Timberwolf, Dire Wolf], and a metal Maurader IIC my store just happened to have a blister of. Looking at making a Coyote star with them.

I know that they tend towards heavier designs, and that they use the Hellbringer rather heavily, so I'm looking at: Hellbringer, Summoner, Timberwolf, Dire Wolf, Maurader IIC.

The Uller and Nova would also be painted Coyote, but would be part of a separate future star.

**DarkTraveler777**

Which unit from Clan Coyote are you going to represent? Or are you doing your own color scheme?

**master of ordinance**

So who here uses Infantry?

**Mmmpi**

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Which unit from Clan Coyote are you going to represent? Or are you doing your own color scheme?

I haven't decided yet on color. I'll flip through camo-specs and see if one jumps out at me. Otherwise, probably go with a 'generic'.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

master of ordinance wrote:
So who here uses Infantry?

I've used infantry before a few times. A couple of hovertruck mounted here and there. I've wanted to use a larger force, with towed guns, but haven't had the opportunity.

My first mech kill ever in B-Tech was with infantry. A damaged LRM infantry unit got a luck shot and killed an awesome pilot from across the board. Ended up with a mech that had only taken 1 damage.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looking over camospecs, I really like the Zeta Galaxy scheme.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
...I just learned this unit existed... http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mary%27s_Little_LAMs
*cries tears of joy and happiness

**Albertorius**

master of ordinance wrote:
So who here uses Infantry?

I used it all the time, personally. Cheap and surprisingly tanky, so you could defend the backfield with them (and still hurt stuff with mortars or field guns).

Plus, they give the game the proper feel of scale.

**DarkTraveler777**

Mmmpi wrote:

Looking over camospecs, I really like the Zeta Galaxy scheme.

Ah, good choice!

Mmmpi wrote:
...I just learned this unit existed... http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mary%27s_Little_LAMs
*cries tears of joy and happiness

Ha, I didn't know they were a thing. That is pretty sweet. 54 LAMs would be frightening to fight against!

master of ordinance wrote:
So who here uses Infantry?

I haven't used infantry with all of the more recent options, but the bog standard SRM infantry would ruin `Mechs and vehicles with ease. I love playing Citytech and hiding infantry in multi-story buildings.