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Made in fr
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





France

Ah parts for the joints at the knees ? In my scratch build knights I used slices of electrical wires, then metal washers on both sides, and a lot of glue. Looking back on it, I am quite surprised the things are still resisting, but I did put a lot of glue (including hot glue once the whole thing was built, I thing this made the plastic wiring wrapping melt into place...
Picture of the thing being built https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/824062-.html

Now I should mention that all three of my scratch build knight collapsed at least once at some point and had to be rebuilt, but never due to a knee failure.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/20 19:13:06


My P&M Blog : Warp Wanderers, Chaos warbands in the Eye of Terror

Voting for my stuff pleases the Chaos Gods and brings you luck in battle !

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wisconsin

Loving the big bug, definitely has that alien feel to the paint job. Have to commend you on building your own chaos parts, impressive so far!
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 KernelTerror wrote:
Ah parts for the joints at the knees ? In my scratch build knights I used slices of electrical wires, then metal washers on both sides, and a lot of glue. Looking back on it, I am quite surprised the things are still resisting, but I did put a lot of glue (including hot glue once the whole thing was built, I thing this made the plastic wiring wrapping melt into place...
Picture of the thing being built https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/824062-.html

Now I should mention that all three of my scratch build knight collapsed at least once at some point and had to be rebuilt, but never due to a knee failure.

That is very interesting, i think i will go for cable actually and use instead of glue soldiering for metal side parts if i find small enough ones.

As an aside the sprues starting points for injection, those round nubs, fit perfectly into the slots for the amiriger AC parts, making my arms a lot easier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yorkright wrote:
Loving the big bug, definitely has that alien feel to the paint job. Have to commend you on building your own chaos parts, impressive so far!


Tbf , i allways wanted to get more into Dark mech, well, the specific kind of eerie dark mech.
Basically what if the sub conscious fears of collective humanity get distilled and put into a daemonengine instead of daemons.

Basically HP lovecraft meets warp meets dark mech heretek that has went completly nuts, or maybee hyper rational?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/20 20:30:51


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Anyways, my greenstuff skills have gone the way of the dodo...

Still, it finally stands









Upper legs still to do, some side bits to add, making the cables propperly into canals, the greenstuff must dry first to maintin the size.

I am evenly split between content and annoyed at the greenstuffing...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Suffering



yes theres a face supposedly to the left, also, i needed to make the joings new and now i am considering giving my decimator a chainmail skirt to hide the upper connection..



in other news, detail work baroque



turned out somewhat ok

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak







Yeah back to planning stages.

Firstly: pinning will be happening.

Secondly, toying around with the idea of a chainmail skirt. Allbeit the form of the legs typically to daemonengines aka < Makes a skirt a somewhat difficult prospect, anyone having experience with free hanging chainmail?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/23 11:41:22


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in gb
Liberated Grot Land Raida






Northern Ireland

Greenstuff world do a chainmail plate. You could use that to get the texture on a rolled thin piece of putty and before its fully set you put it in place and shape it into the final position.

   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak







slightly better sketch of the soon to be existing defieler, planning for a mainline bulbuous weapons plattform with the reaper AC's barrals flanking the main gun and the rockets beeing above

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in fr
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





France

Nice ! Promises to be quite a disturbing fella.

My P&M Blog : Warp Wanderers, Chaos warbands in the Eye of Terror

Voting for my stuff pleases the Chaos Gods and brings you luck in battle !

 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak


















Well, some tanks i guess



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 KernelTerror wrote:
Nice ! Promises to be quite a disturbing fella.


Well he is ordered, alongside some other things

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/29 22:02:01


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Progress






https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak











Well some semgmentata protection.
Also some detail on one leg is done in greenstuff.
Next step, more greenstuff and as you can see some more Arrows.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Well, this is the second try standing up.
Also detail left leg.





then more arrows.

Also now that i have bit more experience again i will probably make a mace toting wardog/ maulerfiend count as knight knight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and the next sketch

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/10 15:44:39


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wisconsin

Coming along nicely NotOnline. Looking forward to some paint landing on him soon.
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Yorkright wrote:
Coming along nicely NotOnline. Looking forward to some paint landing on him soon.


Nonono, not by a longshot, i am unhappy with the gun arms ... also they are not really fix enough for my liking.

Then i need to cut of some more greenstuff up top, to make it look better.

And then there needs some more detail...

As an aside, i decided the one Warglaive i will run as a mauler find, will be an over dimensional Chaos warrior.


Like these old fellows here.

Which lead me to play around a bit.... behold my terrible sketching.


Which then ended in me taking inspiration in the old chaos warriors. Which then led me to toy around with some scale accurate sketches.
The most difficult part will probably be the torso, since i want to make him look like he is in chaos plate armour. and the Arms. The shield i will use plasticard and i am certain i will find some bits to staple on. the sword i will use a body of plasticard for the blade and in general and then will relly upon my Greenstuff skills (or lack thereoff)


Which would lend me a "knight "knight maulerfiend. which is in hindsight hillarious.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in fr
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





France

Oooh cool idea, these old chaos warriors really had a nice look. Maybe salvaging the armour torso from a toy or medieval model for another scale would be feasible no ?

My P&M Blog : Warp Wanderers, Chaos warbands in the Eye of Terror

Voting for my stuff pleases the Chaos Gods and brings you luck in battle !

 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 KernelTerror wrote:
Oooh cool idea, these old chaos warriors really had a nice look. Maybe salvaging the armour torso from a toy or medieval model for another scale would be feasible no ?



now that is an idea...
In essence i want to do this:



I'll probably use the normal amiriger body, but a lot of it will be behind a cloak from which will rise out only some exhaust pipes.

I have solid ideas for the sword an shield, 3 layers of plasticard glued together, then i will cut into that the form of the blade and the guard. Going for some blootletter type thing, after that some sandpaper and greenstuff to hide my inevitable failings

The shield i will make basically with 2 layers aswell and some heat, to make it hold. I will probably go for the Chosen type style of shields , the ones which got banners stuck to them, i am fairly certain that i will find some bits to tape on. The core issue will be the arm needing to be long enough.

Same with the sword.
the helmet i am unsure as of yet, but tending torwards a finger hat.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/12 11:52:00


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak




















Say hello, to a Chaos warrior amiriger, in disassembly count as a maulerfiend.

Things to do, stomach plate. Plate skirt. cloak, fur and of course the shield detail. will give him chain for the fur cloak frontally and probably some on the chainmail and some more plate protection and chainmail.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Stomach plate:



Not yet finished.

Sword, done



Shield arm: more or less-




Inspiration for pose :


my baby, the helmet. Not finished as of yet, needs more horns. but main part is done:




Sanity: never existed.

Comments appreciated

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Nothing to see here imperial citizen.












I said perfectly normal!

*proceeds to cackle madly about superglue

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in fr
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





France

Allright, getting there !
Did you experiment with a longer loincloth though ? I'm not sure about it, but might help balance the model.

EDIT: Like longer and larger, covering maybe up to half of each thigh in width ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/15 19:47:18


My P&M Blog : Warp Wanderers, Chaos warbands in the Eye of Terror

Voting for my stuff pleases the Chaos Gods and brings you luck in battle !

 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought






Nice work on this guy, he’s looking barely recognisable from the original!

Goberts Gubbins - P&M Blog, started with Oldhammer, often Blackstone Fortress and Void Panther Marines, with side projects along the way 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 KernelTerror wrote:
Allright, getting there !
Did you experiment with a longer loincloth though ? I'm not sure about it, but might help balance the model.

EDIT: Like longer and larger, covering maybe up to half of each thigh in width ?


actually, that is something i toyed with, but since i'd anyways add in the cloak on the back and furm ( i intend to go full long cloak with some exhaust pipes sticking out ) it should work fine and also cover the backside up



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 gobert wrote:
Nice work on this guy, he’s looking barely recognisable from the original!


many thanks but not yet done

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/15 20:06:45


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in au
Alluring Mounted Daemonette




Australia

Wow, love the progress here!

Chaos warrior inspired armiger is unreal - a really unique concept that is looking well executed.

I also love the sideways shot of the big chicken walker - he has a really menacing profile. Looking forward to seeing more on him.

Great stuff - thanks for sharing!

t z you are k 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 tzurk wrote:
Wow, love the progress here!

Chaos warrior inspired armiger is unreal - a really unique concept that is looking well executed.

I also love the sideways shot of the big chicken walker - he has a really menacing profile. Looking forward to seeing more on him.

Great stuff - thanks for sharing!


thank you.

Now since it get's cold over here i thought i grant my little normal friend here a cloak:







but i guess he is still freezing , so i may need to grant him a fur aswell

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak

















Something someting i am not ?


pls clap.


ok i now return to be an insane nutjob putting greenstuff ontop of greenstuff.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





It is done, ....










.... Well painting.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in gb
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought






Woah! He looks really cool, great idea and good execution Not Online! How’s he going to be painted up?

Goberts Gubbins - P&M Blog, started with Oldhammer, often Blackstone Fortress and Void Panther Marines, with side projects along the way 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 gobert wrote:
Woah! He looks really cool, great idea and good execution Not Online! How’s he going to be painted up?


Along the line of the "Eyechild" But with a black Helmet.

Also thanks man.

It was quite a bit of toying around and guess work, sketches did help though.

Not quite sure what i do with the chicken walker.
Further since i will soon have another body for daemonengines i will probably also build another one of my Wardog dakkafiends.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





So, erm, yeah i wanted today to start painting and priming my little chaos warrior amiriger,long story short, i accidentally broke of shield from arm, had to remake shield arm, improved shield arm, but now he is drying again...

So i can't paint today, however i did mention a while back that i had a little something comeing project wise, well here's a first glance at that.
To the right is the future Assault company for the 31. Mechanized. It's an old R&H ia 13 list. Now after feeling a bit more confident in my Greenstuffing and plasticarding, i have ordered some time ago (actually closer to 3 months now) via my FLGS 2 boxes of Wargames atlantic germans, these will be the bodies for the list.
Further yes the aditional chimera was for that little side project aswell.

here's the list:


Next , depending upon if they arrive before or after christmas, is the other side project:
Hellfire division:
see the whole teasing sketches and my little chaos amiriger friend drying in a corner atm, are part of the Daemonengine / dark mech aligned sub list:
What will that include?
Basically the Christmas box CSM:
2 Squads of CSM Flamer + Combi flamer / Melta + combimelta
A full squad of lascannon havocs, the sketched and allready shown of Horror- Class defieler
The lord will be turned into an Upgraded Dark mech Heretek, / aka warpsmith OR for my R&H army in retro rules an Heretek Magus.
The Terminator squad will probably get a heavy flamer and combi flamers.

The esthetique for these will be modified, i will attempt making welding masks and cowls, further the new CSM flamer tanks look childish you can bet your backsides that i will give my little colleagues here propper coresponding welding gear...

Other then that ? Not much, maybee i will get lucky and get to finish my grenadier list before the campaign goes down, that would be nice.

I guess merry Christmas and of course the obligatory what's your planning of how to remove that innevitable showing up pile of shame ?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
 
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