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Made in ca
[MOD]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Awesome Manchu!

I ended up going with all the Ork and Rynn's World stuff, but no starter. Hoping to snag someone's extra ork planes from the starter too, if anyone only wants to keep their imperial side
   
Made in us
Novice Knight Errant Pilot




Oakland, CA

Did any of the Nova Open seminars touch on AI - designer's notes or anything like that?
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/30/air-wars-of-the-41st-millenniumgw-homepage-post-2fw-homepage-post-2/

The fluff article mentions Eldar hemlock whatsesnames and crimson whosesfaces. I hope they release the nightwings as the newer plastic GW eldar flyers never appealed to me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/02 09:11:32


 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Indomitable Hell Rider of Glorious Renown






102nd Expeditionary Fleet

The story in the article is one of the three campaigns they released during Stormcloud Attack, released by GW itself back then, so it makes sense that they'd only refer to their own plastic flyers.

But never say never, GW did use the FW design for the Fighta Bomma and the Eavy Bomma is also looking like a mostly direct copy of the classic FW design.

We may see the Nightwing and Phoenix yet, but it could also be a case of GW sticking to their newer plastics as the template for the Aeldari.

Be ash and cinder forevermore!

V - 11 | T - 3 | 敗 - 40

DakkaDakka | Where you thank the mods for baning you! 
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




The Vampire/batman series of Eldar aircrafts is pilotted by outcast/non-parth Eldar while the GW-one is an aspect pilot, fewer in number, and would completely fall out of line when replacing the Nightwing and put alongsude other vampire aircrafts.


Dakkajet and Attack Fighta both armed with 4 shoota, the only different is Fighta can take rokkit and bombs, while 40k Dakkajet can't. So technically speaking the Dakkajet in AI that can take Rokkit and bombs is a Fighta in dakkajet skin.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/09/02 10:05:29


 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





UK

I wonder if we'll see the Eldar Lynx Superheavy make an appearance - that thing's capabable of turning itself into a flyer.

I reckong we'll see Nightwings if only as part of a Corsair force if nothing else.
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




 zedmeister wrote:
I wonder if we'll see the Eldar Lynx Superheavy make an appearance - that thing's capabable of turning itself into a flyer.

I reckong we'll see Nightwings if only as part of a Corsair force if nothing else.


Low attitude flyer.

So it'll be a ground asset that can also take off and fly at attitude 2.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Chopstick wrote:
The Vampire/batman series of Eldar aircrafts is pilotted by outcast/non-parth Eldar while the GW-one is an aspect pilot, fewer in number, and would completely fall out of line when replacing the Nightwing and put alongsude other vampire aircrafts.


Dakkajet and Attack Fighta both armed with 4 shoota, the only different is Fighta can take rokkit and bombs, while 40k Dakkajet can't. So technically speaking the Dakkajet in AI that can take Rokkit and bombs is a Fighta in dakkajet skin.


I'm not really familiar with recent Eldar fluff, the Nightwing used to be the both the primary eldar and also in general the best air superiority aircraft going around.

It always baffled and disappointed me when the Crimson Hunter came out - it seemed to fill the same role as the Nightwing but aesthetically (to me at least) it looks more like a toy. It would have been nicer if GW just plasticised and updated the Nightwing instead of introducing a new thing.

Not sure how they're going to make room for both in AI.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Chopstick wrote:
The Vampire/batman series of Eldar aircrafts is pilotted by outcast/non-parth Eldar while the GW-one is an aspect pilot, fewer in number, and would completely fall out of line when replacing the Nightwing and put alongsude other vampire aircrafts.


Dakkajet and Attack Fighta both armed with 4 shoota, the only different is Fighta can take rokkit and bombs, while 40k Dakkajet can't. So technically speaking the Dakkajet in AI that can take Rokkit and bombs is a Fighta in dakkajet skin.


The craft worlds use Nightwings as their main fighter with the Phoenix as their bomber (which was still faster and more manoeuvrable then other fighters). The vampires are their support heavy ground landers and hunters.

The original aeronautica used all of these as the eldar's fleet options. They were also the main airforce of the Eldar in EPIC throughout all editions.

The crimson Hunter is a completely separate fighter only just added to their options.

At least the Eldar now have more options in flyers - the imperium had more than twice as many options in the original AI.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Hellebore wrote:
Chopstick wrote:
The Vampire/batman series of Eldar aircrafts is pilotted by outcast/non-parth Eldar while the GW-one is an aspect pilot, fewer in number, and would completely fall out of line when replacing the Nightwing and put alongsude other vampire aircrafts.


Dakkajet and Attack Fighta both armed with 4 shoota, the only different is Fighta can take rokkit and bombs, while 40k Dakkajet can't. So technically speaking the Dakkajet in AI that can take Rokkit and bombs is a Fighta in dakkajet skin.


The craft worlds use Nightwings as their main fighter with the Phoenix as their bomber (which was still faster and more manoeuvrable then other fighters). The vampires are their support heavy ground landers and hunters.

The original aeronautica used all of these as the eldar's fleet options. They were also the main airforce of the Eldar in EPIC throughout all editions.

The crimson Hunter is a completely separate fighter only just added to their options.

At least the Eldar now have more options in flyers - the imperium had more than twice as many options in the original AI.
The Eldar aircraft were so high end it didn't really bother me that they didn't have many options, seemed more like Eldar put the effort in to make good aircraft so they wouldn't need a lot of different fighters and bombers to fill only subtly different roles.

Nightwings were sleek looking machines and I found them fun to paint, here's my Nightwing squadron from the first game...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/02 12:13:26


 
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




AllSeeingSkink wrote:

I'm not really familiar with recent Eldar fluff, the Nightwing used to be the both the primary eldar and also in general the best air superiority aircraft going around.
It always baffled and disappointed me when the Crimson Hunter came out - it seemed to fill the same role as the Nightwing but aesthetically (to me at least) it looks more like a toy. It would have been nicer if GW just plasticised and updated the Nightwing instead of introducing a new thing.
Not sure how they're going to make room for both in AI.

Hellebore wrote:

The craft worlds use Nightwings as their main fighter with the Phoenix as their bomber (which was still faster and more manoeuvrable then other fighters). The vampires are their support heavy ground landers and hunters.
The original aeronautica used all of these as the eldar's fleet options. They were also the main airforce of the Eldar in EPIC throughout all editions.
The crimson Hunter is a completely separate fighter only just added to their options.


Hemlock Wraithfighter and Crimson Hunter are piloted by Aspect warrior, in contrast to non-path/outcast that pilot the other aircraft, thus they're better pilots but are a lot more rare and couldn't be a mainstay fighter in an Eldar air force.
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Hemlock pilot is a spirit seer, not an aspect warrior.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





But why have different air superiority aircraft just for the sake of having different pilots in them? Why not just have the Nightwing and say there’s an aspect warrior or sprit deer or whatever the hell you want flying it?

The plastic eldar flyers just seem to fill the same role as the nightwing, I reckon when they decided they wanted to make a plastic eldar flyer for whatever reason they didn’t want to retire the nightwing, or maybe the nightwing model was a bit too big to translate to plastic.

It’s like I said somewhere earlier in this thread, I like the idea of new aircraft but only if they have a distinct role from the existing models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/02 13:38:09


 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Because real militaries always have only one type of a fighter, amirite?

They do different things. Hemlock for example is a ghost powered flying psychic amplifier.

Besides, the reason for having models is not to fill different combat roles. If they do that as well, that's nice, but their main purpose is to look cool and offer the players different aesthetic options.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in nl
Never Forget Isstvan!





The Netherlands

They should have just done a plastic Nightwing...

The Wars of Tusculum Nova - A Vanguard Miniatures fanblog 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 Malika2 wrote:
They should have just done a plastic Nightwing...


The Forgeworld Nightwing was a design from before GW had really defined the modern Eldar aesthetic. It was born of a time where White Dwarf still had articles on how to turn deodorant containers into grav-tanks and Forgeworld was a smaller boutique operation that also did statues and busts. It's a marked improvement over the old Epic Nightwing design, but not quite in line with the rest of the range.

The Crimson Hunter by contrast looks like it fits better with the later Eldar aircraft from Forgeworld and the newer vehicle kits. It also has nice smooth curves and flowing lines which feel more Eldar than some of the harder edges of Nightwing that lend themselves to Imperial and Chaos styling. It's similar to how the Voss Lightning shares more design elements with Thunderbolt, Marauder, and Avenger than the older Lightning with it's rounded nose.

I would not be upset if in the Eldar release wave of AI, the Nightwing gets replaced by the Crimson Hunter as the main fighter much like the old Ork Fighter got replaced by the Dakkajet.

I also wouldn't mind any retcon that separated the aircraft from the aspect warriors where Crimson Hunters are the aspect and that airframe becomes the new Nightwing. If it's piloted by regular joes, it gets craftworld colors, if it's piloted by Crimson Hunters, it gets Crimson Hunter red, black, and bone. Maybe even expanding Crimson Hunters to the Phoenix and Vampire.
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




We'll find out soon enough eh.

Decided to grab the box & the book - I can make the Ork flyers a wee bit smaller easily enough and they'll still look right because Orks. Flog the Imperials planes and the Ork ones are basically free, and the Rynn's World book should be worth it for the fluff alone even if I find I don't care for the new rules.

Looking forward to the Eavy Bomma.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




meh, the only thing that'd make Crimson Hunter insteresting is giving them better loadout, and maybe missile option. The current one is basically 2 lascannon and rapid fire lascannon.
   
Made in us
Near Golden Daemon Caliber





Affton, MO. USA

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Just checked it out in a local store, models are bigger than I had in my mind, they look nice (though less detailed than the old FW resin ones as you might expect).

I’m a bit torn on what to get. I think you’re going to want the campaign expansion as the boxed set doesn’t have any scenarios and it only has te rules for the models in the box (ie not the Bommers that will be coming out soon).

The box is nice in that you get two squadrons, but those squadrons are a bit thin and probably need expansion.

Also the map in the boxed set is a bit too small.

If the boxed set had 4 thunderbolts and 6 dakkajets (even if it cost a bit more) it’d be a no brainer. But as it is I’m thinking this might be a better buy in...

Campaign book
3rd party hex mat
1 thunderbolt box
1 marauder box
1 dakkajet box
1 fighter bommer box
1 set of tokens

Not sure. Could also just buy 2 starter sets but probably still want the 3rd party mat and campaign book.

EDIT: After adding up the prices 2 starter sets is better value. Maybe I’ll just grab 1 starter set first and see how it goes.


And then watch it sells out for months and you can't get a second box. At which point the game stalls and falls into obscurity.

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
Made in ca
[MOD]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Nightwings were sleek looking machines and I found them fun to paint, here's my Nightwing squadron from the first game...


Those look Sick!! Hopefully the game sells well and they release more factions
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

Darn those are nice!

Personally I hope they expand air forces somewhat. Some armies, like Necron, have very few options and even Tyranids only have two body types of flying unit.

A Blog in Miniature - now featuring reviews of many new Black Library books (latest Novellas) 
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer





LA

I prefer the pointed sharp look of the hemlock or crimson hunter so I hope that is like their answer to the dakkajets. I feel it's just more pleasing to the eye. Eldar would make for a great next faction cause they are so sleek next to the bulky metal constructs of orks and the imperium.

 
   
Made in us
Novice Knight Errant Pilot




Oakland, CA

I would say that we just got a preview of the first two expansions to the game - campaign books for the Occulam Mistwar (Eldar) and Liberation of Enothis (Chaos).

Given what we've seen thus far, I'd say each will be accompanied by 2 boxed sets.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Crimson wrote:
Because real militaries always have only one type of a fighter, amirite?

They do different things. Hemlock for example is a ghost powered flying psychic amplifier.

Besides, the reason for having models is not to fill different combat roles. If they do that as well, that's nice, but their main purpose is to look cool and offer the players different aesthetic options.


Real militaries have multiple types of fighters in the same role largely for reasons not relevant to the Eldar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
witchdoctor wrote:
 Malika2 wrote:
They should have just done a plastic Nightwing...


The Forgeworld Nightwing was a design from before GW had really defined the modern Eldar aesthetic. It was born of a time where White Dwarf still had articles on how to turn deodorant containers into grav-tanks and Forgeworld was a smaller boutique operation that also did statues and busts. It's a marked improvement over the old Epic Nightwing design, but not quite in line with the rest of the range.

The Crimson Hunter by contrast looks like it fits better with the later Eldar aircraft from Forgeworld and the newer vehicle kits. It also has nice smooth curves and flowing lines which feel more Eldar than some of the harder edges of Nightwing that lend themselves to Imperial and Chaos styling. It's similar to how the Voss Lightning shares more design elements with Thunderbolt, Marauder, and Avenger than the older Lightning with it's rounded nose.

I would not be upset if in the Eldar release wave of AI, the Nightwing gets replaced by the Crimson Hunter as the main fighter much like the old Ork Fighter got replaced by the Dakkajet.

I also wouldn't mind any retcon that separated the aircraft from the aspect warriors where Crimson Hunters are the aspect and that airframe becomes the new Nightwing. If it's piloted by regular joes, it gets craftworld colors, if it's piloted by Crimson Hunters, it gets Crimson Hunter red, black, and bone. Maybe even expanding Crimson Hunters to the Phoenix and Vampire.


I don't think the Nightwing is quite THAT old.

The Nightwing and Phoenix look self consistent to me as far as aesthetic goes.

When you say "The Crimson Hunter by contrast looks like it fits better with the later Eldar aircraft from Forgeworld and the newer vehicle kits" the only aircraft FW do other than the Nightwing is the Phoenix and the Crimson Hunter/Hemlock Whatsesname is the only Eldar flyer in the regular GW range. As for "newer vehicle kits", the basic aesthetic of those hasn't changed in the time I've been collecting (2nd edition, mid 90's), so it's not like the Eldar vehicles have had some major shift in aesthetic which the Crimson Hunter better fits in with.

And overall I just think the Nightwing looks better. The Crimson Hunter doesn't have satisfying proportions to my eye, from certain angles it looks okay, but while it's certain curvy it's not what I'd describe as sleek. I'm failing at finding a side by side picture but the Crimson Hunter looks a lot smaller and toy like, but maybe it is as big as the Nightwing and just looks smaller.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/03 06:57:03


 
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




 schoon wrote:
I would say that we just got a preview of the first two expansions to the game - campaign books for the Occulam Mistwar (Eldar) and Liberation of Enothis (Chaos).

Given what we've seen thus far, I'd say each will be accompanied by 2 boxed sets.

Rynn World campaign is from a scenario from the ORB, there are some other scenario that could be use as expansion too.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Just checked it out in a local store, models are bigger than I had in my mind, they look nice (though less detailed than the old FW resin ones as you might expect).


Less detailed in what sort of way? I don't have the originals to compare them to myself, but I can't really see any differences between the FW versions in the gallery here and the photos of the new ones.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

It's probably really fine details like wires and cables and such. Whilst GW's plastic is really great today it still can't quite get that super-fine detail that resin can achieve.

I also think that some areas have changed as GW has shifted from sculpted to 3D printing masters. You can see it on things like fur where in the past it might be made by straight lines done with a blade, whilst now its more tuft chunks

A Blog in Miniature - now featuring reviews of many new Black Library books (latest Novellas) 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Mentlegen324 wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Just checked it out in a local store, models are bigger than I had in my mind, they look nice (though less detailed than the old FW resin ones as you might expect).


Less detailed in what sort of way? I don't have the originals to compare them to myself, but I can't really see any differences between the FW versions in the gallery here and the photos of the new ones.
I guess it's more that they've grown without adding more detail, so the detail is less fine and less dense than the originals. When I said they look less detailed I didn't have a FW one in my hand to compare, it's more just when I look at the FW ones I'm blown away by how fine and sharp the detail is and the GW plastic ones didn't strike me as being like that.

Maybe when I get mine next week I'll try and take some close up snaps next to my old FW ones to see how they look.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/03 11:15:12


 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





 Overread wrote:
It's probably really fine details like wires and cables and such. Whilst GW's plastic is really great today it still can't quite get that super-fine detail that resin can achieve.

I also think that some areas have changed as GW has shifted from sculpted to 3D printing masters. You can see it on things like fur where in the past it might be made by straight lines done with a blade, whilst now its more tuft chunks
They don’t 3D print masters; they print prototypes from the same digital master they use to create the final casting mould. Doesn’t seem like much but it means the final pieces should be dimensionally accurate to the prototypes, so you don’t have to muck about scaling the master to account for shrinkage or inaccuracies created by play in the pantograph joints etc. once you’ve got a result you like.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/03 11:16:51


"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
witchdoctor wrote:
 Malika2 wrote:
They should have just done a plastic Nightwing...


The Forgeworld Nightwing was a design from before GW had really defined the modern Eldar aesthetic. It was born of a time where White Dwarf still had articles on how to turn deodorant containers into grav-tanks and Forgeworld was a smaller boutique operation that also did statues and busts. It's a marked improvement over the old Epic Nightwing design, but not quite in line with the rest of the range.

The Crimson Hunter by contrast looks like it fits better with the later Eldar aircraft from Forgeworld and the newer vehicle kits. It also has nice smooth curves and flowing lines which feel more Eldar than some of the harder edges of Nightwing that lend themselves to Imperial and Chaos styling. It's similar to how the Voss Lightning shares more design elements with Thunderbolt, Marauder, and Avenger than the older Lightning with it's rounded nose.

I would not be upset if in the Eldar release wave of AI, the Nightwing gets replaced by the Crimson Hunter as the main fighter much like the old Ork Fighter got replaced by the Dakkajet.

I also wouldn't mind any retcon that separated the aircraft from the aspect warriors where Crimson Hunters are the aspect and that airframe becomes the new Nightwing. If it's piloted by regular joes, it gets craftworld colors, if it's piloted by Crimson Hunters, it gets Crimson Hunter red, black, and bone. Maybe even expanding Crimson Hunters to the Phoenix and Vampire.


I don't think the Nightwing is quite THAT old.

The Nightwing and Phoenix look self consistent to me as far as aesthetic goes.

When you say "The Crimson Hunter by contrast looks like it fits better with the later Eldar aircraft from Forgeworld and the newer vehicle kits" the only aircraft FW do other than the Nightwing is the Phoenix and the Crimson Hunter/Hemlock Whatsesname is the only Eldar flyer in the regular GW range. As for "newer vehicle kits", the basic aesthetic of those hasn't changed in the time I've been collecting (2nd edition, mid 90's), so it's not like the Eldar vehicles have had some major shift in aesthetic which the Crimson Hunter better fits in with.

And overall I just think the Nightwing looks better. The Crimson Hunter doesn't have satisfying proportions to my eye, from certain angles it looks okay, but while it's certain curvy it's not what I'd describe as sleek. I'm failing at finding a side by side picture but the Crimson Hunter looks a lot smaller and toy like, but maybe it is as big as the Nightwing and just looks smaller.


The Nightwing has gone through 3 iterations:

The first was Epic 2nd edition/Titan Legions Nightwing back when the Eldar aesthetic was more organic in shape. The Nightwing was not a recognizable winged aircraft as we humans would understand it:


Then there was the pronged era scaly hulled Eldar aircraft with Epic 40K and this is when the Phoenix was first introduced.


The FW Phoenix took inspiration from the shape of the aircraft during this era, but dropped the scales. FW did a very different shape for the Nightwing compared to its Epic 40K version, and that is the version people are perhaps most familiar with today.

After that there is the newest pair of Eldar aircraft, the Crimson Hunter and Hemlock, which are both a very different shape again from the above two groups.

I suppose one could handwave it in the end as being different schools of design.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/03 12:20:29


 
   
 
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