Switch Theme:

Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






BillyN831 wrote:
I looked at Game Workshop website and did not find Grand Masters. Is kit bashing Brother Captains into Grand Masters good? How many daemon hammers and incinerators in a Strike Squad? How are Brother-Captain Stern and Castellan Crowe fluff wise?


I know . I got like 2 games in while gk were awesome before covid. Lol

"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in pl
Been Around the Block




I feel like 9th edition is build exacly for Grey Knights.

Games are shorter, only 5 turns, tabling opponent means nothing if he wins on points, that is a huge win for more elite armies that like to exchange their arguments. It also means there are not many good "shooting castle" strategies that will abuse range against you.

Short games also means, that armies who are active and dominant in more then 1 phase are much better, becouse you have overall less time to deal with your opponent, you better do it fast, and I think GK is just perfect for this,
plenty of buffing powers and mortal wound bombs, aswell as armywide stormbolters who offer a lot of shots, usually under reroll to hit
last but not least, smash heroes, one of the best if not the best CC unit (Palladin bomb),
armywide force weapons. Yes, please

Smaller tables, and mission's all about objectives - that's exacly what we needed, we fight best at mid to close range, so anything from 1" to 24" is our home, and that's what new mission's force you to, if your opponent try to outrange you, it mean's he cant hold objectives. Thats great !

Durable objective secured units, well I think, terminators in troops is definition of durable obsec unit, under the Tide of shadows we are looking at 1+/5++ and possibly even -1 to hit.
We are not nurgling's but damn, we are close, especially with almost free armywide deepstrike ability.

Some of our best strategies (not a smite spam unfortunetly) got a buff in this edition, Palladin bomb in a metagame that force players to fight in close range in order to take away points and hold your own objective's.
GMNDK wing, they were good, now, that you almost always want to keep yourself in tide of shadows against shooty matchups,no penalities for moving and shooting heavy - all of this is great.

Vehicles got better, vehicles with tide of shadow's got better better.


Why do we struggle to fight our way to a top ?
Points efficiency, with the new codex'es we pay 100% more for each power armour wound, and 50% more for each terminator wound, we have limited access to a new toys that most of marines got and got a little outdated ruleset (WL traits, Relics - although we have some cool combos there, and chaplain buffing single unit ).

I think once we get update of +1 wound to power armour bodies and terminator bodies we will be super strong.
Now we field like 50-75% of wounds other marine army represent on the same point's which put's us in very though spot, our glory will come with the codex update.


Ok, now lets get to the "tactic" section, have you guys try to play 3x Purifire squads with Crowe into either LRC or 3x Razorback to sit on objectives in tide of shadows and create super big threat for something that comes close (4xd6 mortal wounds, 60 bolter shots, 30-45 force weapon attacks) ?
   
Made in us
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp






Dimmamar

One of the main reasons GK suffers currently is that the meta is geared towards killing Marines--specifically, T5 W3 Sv3+ marines. Paladins are slightly worse T, slightly better Sv. PAGK are just bad. We don't have any boosts to charges. Chappies are too unreliable and circumstantial to justify the cost.

GMDK really are the saving grace of the book.

Our aging psychic powers, paying a points premium for psychic units that don't contribute, and lack of relic choices (there are really just two, Shard and the Matrix), make us pretty low tier.

LVO 2017 - Best GK Player

The Grimdark Future 8500 1500 4500 2000 2500

"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
"By time I mean that which is indicated by some changing motion." City of God, Book XII Ch 16 
   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






 Elric Greywolf wrote:
One of the main reasons GK suffers currently is that the meta is geared towards killing Marines--specifically, T5 W3 Sv3+ marines. Paladins are slightly worse T, slightly better Sv. PAGK are just bad. We don't have any boosts to charges. Chappies are too unreliable and circumstantial to justify the cost.

GMDK really are the saving grace of the book.

Our aging psychic powers, paying a points premium for psychic units that don't contribute, and lack of relic choices (there are really just two, Shard and the Matrix), make us pretty low tier.


In ITC last ed we were pretty strong toward the end, and this was largely due to the fact that 1st floor ruins were considered solid. We could safely apply midfield pressure with a crazy paladin unit. 9th is a little more rough.

"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in us
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp






Dimmamar

Yeah, there was a good build with some fun character variation towards the end of 8e.

I think what would really boost GK up is getting that additional wound to put us in line with other Marines AND getting a special army-wide rule (in addition to Tides) that lets us have 2-3 (or unlimited) casts of the same Sanctic Powers. That way we could have Hammerhand in two places when we need it, or have every unit on the field with a 5++ thanks to Sanctuary, or etc.
With two trees to pick from, you could even move all the MW powers to the Dominus discipline and keep those limited to one cast per turn.

But just imagine your whole ARMY gating forward on T1, instead of just a single unit. That would be so cool!

LVO 2017 - Best GK Player

The Grimdark Future 8500 1500 4500 2000 2500

"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
"By time I mean that which is indicated by some changing motion." City of God, Book XII Ch 16 
   
Made in au
Stalwart Strike Squad Grey Knight





I'm pretty sure the biggest addition / change to 9Ed Codex GKs is the Brotherhood sub-faction rule system. They are revealing tidbits for the Death Guard's 7 Plague Companies. I can easily 6-8 GK brotherhoods filled with new rules.

As an example of possible Brotherhood Rules - check this out:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795158.page

 
   
Made in us
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp






Dimmamar

 Waking Dreamer wrote:
I'm pretty sure the biggest addition / change to 9Ed Codex GKs is the Brotherhood sub-faction rule system. They are revealing tidbits for the Death Guard's 7 Plague Companies. I can easily 6-8 GK brotherhoods filled with new rules.

As an example of possible Brotherhood Rules - check this out:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795158.page


Great job on the codex! I'd love to see some of those rules on the table!
I especially like the falchion relic. I always choose anything BUT the falchions on characters...but those definitely make it an interesting pick. +2 to wound with hammerhand would be so many dead Primaris!

LVO 2017 - Best GK Player

The Grimdark Future 8500 1500 4500 2000 2500

"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
"By time I mean that which is indicated by some changing motion." City of God, Book XII Ch 16 
   
Made in pl
Been Around the Block




The more I theory craft the better grey knights seem to me, especially in the metagame pushing towards more mele orientated armies. Becouse how new WWSWF works ive been thinking off:
Draigo deathball - draigo himself, 3x purigation squads full heavy weapons , 3x 10 purifire squads 4 heavy weapons.
You make sure purifires are your most expensive units in the armylist , then you combat squad them into a Teams with heavy weapons and just stormbolters, leaving the regular ones somewhere safe in your deployment blocking deepstrikes / outflanks which almost guarantees full points on WWSWF secondary( they need to kill both halfes of the squad to deny you a points) The heavy weapon team join draigo alongside purigators . Now you have 24 heavy weapons dealing somewhere between 96-144 at least dmg2 str5 shots under the tide of dakkadakka (dependens on the number of psilencers and psycannons). with a hit ratio of 75% on avarage(after the movement, if you remain stationary thats even better)
If anything comes close you have your d6 mortal wound smites.
In the most expensive version its 1258 points so you still have some points left for other stuff. The burst dmg is insane , you give up abor the witch points easly but thats how it has to be.

The other strategy ive been thinking off is utilising our mobility and double use of psybolt ammunition stratagem via edict imperator spell for a whole 3 turns without much counterplay by your opponent .
Basicly you need one ten men squad of whatever unit you choose (preferably palladins or terminators becouse they always rapidfire at 24” range)
U keep this unit safe behind a los blocker using astral aim and edict + psybolt to shoot in psychic phase.
Then turn 1 you use interceptors movement and shoot them with psybolt stratagem in the shooting phase, while using gate of infinity on purigation squad ( and if possible chaplain with „No to hit and ballistic skill modifires” and etheral manipulation spell for a full reroll). Turn 2 and 3 you repeat the process but instead of using interceptors you just deepstrike terminators/strike squads and maybe some GMNDK for a rerolls. This strategy let you unload 80 str 6 -1ap dmg2 shots + 16-24 purigator shots for 3 turns with high accuracy delivering them almost anywhere on the board.
You need to play it off the batalion becouse its very cp hungry but the mobility and just flat damage it provides just seems insane to me. You dont really need that much durability if you kill anything that could punch you back but you can squeeze in some terminators with defensive spells or even palladins for your deepstriking units if you want.
Let me know guys, what do you think about that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/12 23:32:59


 
   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






Jabberscythe wrote:
The more I theory craft the better grey knights seem to me, especially in the metagame pushing towards more mele orientated armies. Becouse how new WWSWF works ive been thinking off:
Draigo deathball - draigo himself, 3x purigation squads full heavy weapons , 3x 10 purifire squads 4 heavy weapons.
You make sure purifires are your most expensive units in the armylist , then you combat squad them into a Teams with heavy weapons and just stormbolters, leaving the regular ones somewhere safe in your deployment blocking deepstrikes / outflanks which almost guarantees full points on WWSWF secondary( they need to kill both halfes of the squad to deny you a points) The heavy weapon team join draigo alongside purigators . Now you have 24 heavy weapons dealing somewhere between 96-144 at least dmg2 str5 shots under the tide of dakkadakka (dependens on the number of psilencers and psycannons). with a hit ratio of 75% on avarage(after the movement, if you remain stationary thats even better)
If anything comes close you have your d6 mortal wound smites.
In the most expensive version its 1258 points so you still have some points left for other stuff. The burst dmg is insane , you give up abor the witch points easly but thats how it has to be.

The other strategy ive been thinking off is utilising our mobility and double use of psybolt ammunition stratagem via edict imperator spell for a whole 3 turns without much counterplay by your opponent .
Basicly you need one ten men squad of whatever unit you choose (preferably palladins or terminators becouse they always rapidfire at 24” range)
U keep this unit safe behind a los blocker using astral aim and edict + psybolt to shoot in psychic phase.
Then turn 1 you use interceptors movement and shoot them with psybolt stratagem in the shooting phase, while using gate of infinity on purigation squad ( and if possible chaplain with „No to hit and ballistic skill modifires” and etheral manipulation spell for a full reroll). Turn 2 and 3 you repeat the process but instead of using interceptors you just deepstrike terminators/strike squads and maybe some GMNDK for a rerolls. This strategy let you unload 80 str 6 -1ap dmg2 shots + 16-24 purigator shots for 3 turns with high accuracy delivering them almost anywhere on the board.
You need to play it off the batalion becouse its very cp hungry but the mobility and just flat damage it provides just seems insane to me. You dont really need that much durability if you kill anything that could punch you back but you can squeeze in some terminators with defensive spells or even palladins for your deepstriking units if you want.
Let me know guys, what do you think about that.


Your first strategy is how I played 6th ed (without the modern rules ofc.)

Your 2nd strategy is how I play 8th and 9th. It puts out decent damage when you manage it correctly. I know a lot of people aren't fans of purg squads, but I just hold them in reserve if I'm worried.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/14 02:57:30


"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






How's everyone feeling now that our psykers don't give up so many secondary points?

"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




How are Paladins and Venerable Dreadnoughts?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/21 23:21:18


 
   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






BillyN831 wrote:
How are Paladins and Venerable Dreadnoughts?


Paladins are still a very solid unit that can contend and bully units off of objectives and whittle down other units. I take mine with 4 psilencers for tide of shooting.

Ven dreads are eh. They need the space marine treatment for some durability. I'm still sore that autocannons and h. Psycannons aren't allowed anymore. So, I've been thinking of running some with a ccw and a multi melta since the MM buff and some reduced points. I've seen some batreps put these to decent use. 24" range isn't as bad as it used to be with the smaller boards.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/22 20:14:53


"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Thank you.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





So this is an incredibly dumb question, but where are all the most current GK rules? I assume the last Codex + FAQS, but is anything notable elsewhere like a Psychic Awakening book?

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




You'll want the Psychic Awakening book Ritual of the Damned. It takes the Grey Knights from a medicore to bad army to a very competitive one.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





May I ask what it added to them that so turned them around?

I have a ten year old GK army that I am dusting off and repainting in between my wife and I building new Necron and Death Guard, and always love having very divergent playing armies available to us. Thing is, wysiwyg, the models are all over the place, and I imagine I will need to hunt down a mountain of new special weapon bits.

11527pts Total (7400pts painted)

4980pts Total (4980pts painted)

3730 Total (210pts painted) 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




It's mostly the psychic tides and strategems. And a new psychic discipline available to characters not squads. Honestly I don't think there were any new data sheets or weapon changes.

I have found this site to be very helpful in getting a basic understanding of different armies and their peculiarities. https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Grey_Knights_(9E)
   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






Has anyone made a viable list with land raiders?

"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






Also, I haven't thought about this relic since 8th... how's the fury of deimos feeling in tide of shooting? It becomes a 6 shot str 6 ap-1 2d weapon yes?

"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I think that there are people that can make a Land Raider work, but that the vehicle is sub-optimal compared to some of the other options out there. It's just too expensive and easy to kill to be viable against lists that are gearing up for Dark Angels and Death Guard.
   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






So, grey knights have definitely got to be a higher tier than many say. For time restraints, I played a 1k game against imperial knights army yesterday and tabled the imperial knights by turn 2. That shouldn't happen.

"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




 Smotejob wrote:
So, grey knights have definitely got to be a higher tier than many say. For time restraints, I played a 1k game against imperial knights army yesterday and tabled the imperial knights by turn 2. That shouldn't happen.


Siegler believes GK are top tier. You just need to play them kina like Tau from what I've seen of how he handles them.

IK aren't in a great place either so I can believe you tabled him.
   
Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator






Audustum wrote:
 Smotejob wrote:
So, grey knights have definitely got to be a higher tier than many say. For time restraints, I played a 1k game against imperial knights army yesterday and tabled the imperial knights by turn 2. That shouldn't happen.


Siegler believes GK are top tier. You just need to play them kina like Tau from what I've seen of how he handles them.

IK aren't in a great place either so I can believe you tabled him.


How I play them is different based on the archetype play style of my opponent. Sometimes I gunline them. Sometimes I play very cagey trying to pull my opponent in every direction. Sometimes it's just run into the middle and brawl.

"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus

If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




What is the optimal configuration of paladins? Thank you.
   
Made in us
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp






Dimmamar

BillyN831 wrote:
What is the optimal configuration of paladins? Thank you.


A block of 10 is a good middle field tarpit. Several groups of 3-5 are good harassment units and are much easier to hide in terrain.

In terms of guns, it depends on what you want to do with Tides and Chappies. Taking full SBs makes good use of Psybolts, but psilencers/psycannons can do serious damage when supported by Focus Prayer and Convergence Tide.

For melee, a hammer on the Paragon makes good use of his WS2+, but it might be too pricey if you have multiple units of them. I like a mix of halberds and staves, personally.

LVO 2017 - Best GK Player

The Grimdark Future 8500 1500 4500 2000 2500

"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
"By time I mean that which is indicated by some changing motion." City of God, Book XII Ch 16 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




I like Grand Masters in Nemesis Dreadknights and Paladins. I shall wait until ninth edition before glue. Thank you.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




I do not want primaris grey knights. Anyone else?
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

BillyN831 wrote:
I do not want primaris grey knights. Anyone else?


Nope. Keep them firstborn and boost the stats.

But I would not mind if they let us take other options from the main Codex, like Deathwatch.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





https://www.reddit.com/r/Grey_Knights/comments/mo7cc4/written_battle_report_vs_dark_angels/

From my favorite GK player of all time.

I'm hoping he'll do more and better in the future, since he's really good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/26 07:02:46


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




Rumors of Grey Knights and Thousand Sons codex?
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: