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Genuinely trying to think of another game I have played with worse rules...drawing a blank. I am sure it must be out there though!

I just don't like Warhammer games. Playing warhammer tabletop equals taking as many dice as you can, throwing it. Any bad rolls you take again and rethrow. Then you take dozen or so dices who resulted in hit and then throw these. In the end from several dozen of dices you have several hits which actually had done damage and half of them are removed by enemy saves.

As for Warmachine, I dislike focus system as I think it is too strong and undervalues models themselves. Anything with focus can hit way too hard then fully powered and it makes completely irrelevant health, armor and weapon stats. All you need is one big beating stick and plenty of focus to buy a bazzilion of attacks. Nobody should be able to buy new attacks unless specifically stated or it is warcaster. I would enjoy game based more on attrition rather than alphas through threat ranges reaching half a table...

I wonder if Neo-Mechanika will feel better to play.

TBH from what I have played, GW rules are “good enough for what its looking to achieve”. It just amuses me when people try to fit the square GW ruleset into the round hole of competitive play and expect it to work.

I like WM/H due to the precision and accuracy of play. Things either “are” or “are not”. There is very little rule lawyering etc. BUT if I could live with the more general rules of GW then I am certain I would be into 40K or WHF or something like that.

Its not about slagging off GW’s rules. Its just acknowledging them for what they are. And the fact that for a huge swathe of the wargaming worlds, that is enough.

Sunno wrote:
MK3 Ruleset was fine.

Faction balance was the issue.

You know, other than be unable to charge a Knocked Down or Stationary model, and losing all gang up type bonuses on models suffering those conditions. And they totally did that intentionally and play tested it that way. Except for the charging part which they changed right away. And then when people pointed out the near dozen cases of models with gang up type mechanics having non-optional knockdown mechanics making them lose those gang up bonuses they eventually changed that too.

Also I like how you just casually throw out Faction Bonus as though one of the factions at launch was So Bad they had to redo the entire thing. They stopped putting cards in with models because of how fast they were being errataed and made obsolete. Mk3 was a giant cluster frak. They panicked when Warmachine started to slow down and rushed the new edition out and bombed it horribly and only hastened the downward spiral of which they’ve never fully recovered from.

Warcaster gives them a chance at a fresh start. Less models to have to balance initially. Not having some of the legacy issues they’ve refused to address in Warmachine (FA:U). I’ve heard some interesting things about the game, but I don’t know of anyone local getting it, and I’m already pressed for gaming time between MonPoc, Aristeia, Godtear, Guild Ball, and the Warhammers, so it’s getting a pass from me.

Sunno wrote:
MK3 Ruleset was fine.

Faction balance was the issue.

And the fact that it was app-driven too. That put a lot of people, myself included, off of the offering.

Mk3 was a mess. Throw rules hadn't even been tested when released (it was more effective not to aim at a target, you could accurately throw your own models to extend their threat range, etc). An entire faction's rules had to be remade from scratch afterwards. And their fix to the problems was to adjust the rules wayyyyyyy too frequently, on a rolling basis, which I personally really dislike...

I'm much more hopeful for this game, though! Starting over lets them get out from under a lot of the issues with warmahordes. And they greatly increased the value of the highest pledge level in the latest update.

 AduroT wrote:

Sunno wrote:
MK3 Ruleset was fine.

Faction balance was the issue.

You know, other than be unable to charge a Knocked Down or Stationary model, and losing all gang up type bonuses on models suffering those conditions. And they totally did that intentionally and play tested it that way. Except for the charging part which they changed right away. And then when people pointed out the near dozen cases of models with gang up type mechanics having non-optional knockdown mechanics making them lose those gang up bonuses they eventually changed that too.

Also I like how you just casually throw out Faction Bonus as though one of the factions at launch was So Bad they had to redo the entire thing. They stopped putting cards in with models because of how fast they were being errataed and made obsolete. Mk3 was a giant cluster frak. They panicked when Warmachine started to slow down and rushed the new edition out and bombed it horribly and only hastened the downward spiral of which they’ve never fully recovered from.

Warcaster gives them a chance at a fresh start. Less models to have to balance initially. Not having some of the legacy issues they’ve refused to address in Warmachine (FA:U). I’ve heard some interesting things about the game, but I don’t know of anyone local getting it, and I’m already pressed for gaming time between MonPoc, Aristeia, Godtear, Guild Ball, and the Warhammers, so it’s getting a pass from me.

Which Faction was so bad they had to redo it. I remember Skorne for Hordes had to be redone entirely but I can't remember which one they had redone for Warmachine.

It's Skorne - people refer to the game as one since both "halves" are fully compatible.

My local group got to playtest Warcaster this week, but unfortunately I was out of town that day. Folks are quite committed making their own standees / etc for it

Sunno wrote:
MK3 Ruleset was fine.

Faction balance was the issue.

Honestly, I've felt like faction balance has been better across MK3 than pretty much all of MK2. Skorne had to be redone but Skorne was terrible in all of MK2 and just never GOT redone like it needed to be. The only real difference was in MK2 the haves and haves not were consistent. Cryx and Cygnar and Circle were amazing a few factions occasionally got to compete with them but quickly faded back out when the big three adapted. MK3 has been more volatile with some HUGE mistakes (Khador having absolutely no reasonable method of attacking the Cryx battle engine was.... a problem) but in terms of faction balance and list variety I feel its been, at least no worse than MK2.

 RiTides wrote:


I'm much more hopeful for this game, though! Starting over lets them get out from under a lot of the issues with warmahordes. And they greatly increased the value of the highest pledge level in the latest update.

I'm hoping Warcaster is just a trial-run for rebooting WM/H tbh. Warmachine at a smaller-scale, with 3-man units, and less stupid synergy and stripped down factions without all the bloat? Sounds fun as hell. (Though PP would release the whole thing in metal again and no one would buy it).

Schmapdi wrote:

 RiTides wrote:


I'm much more hopeful for this game, though! Starting over lets them get out from under a lot of the issues with warmahordes. And they greatly increased the value of the highest pledge level in the latest update.

I'm hoping Warcaster is just a trial-run for rebooting WM/H tbh. Warmachine at a smaller-scale, with 3-man units, and less stupid synergy and stripped down factions without all the bloat? Sounds fun as hell. (Though PP would release the whole thing in metal again and no one would buy it).

PP wouldn’t even adjust the FA of models for fear of invalidating collections. No way they redo the game to the extent and scale of Warcaster.

The small amount of each faction that's good or those in themes basically already invalidates the majority of their product line. Stores that stock their stuff have either just liquidated it or have it just sitting there. anyone who posts entire collectins for sale second hand gets people asking for one or maybe two items. the majority of stuff is already invalid in a defacto sense.

and BACK to happier news (seriously guys there's two other whole threads we can chat in about the problems of Warmachine - can't we focus at least a little on the KS and less on Warmachine/hordes).



They are nearly at £350K with still 6-7 days to go. I'd say they'll easily make the $350K and unlock the variant light warjack sculpts. If they keep going at their current rate then I'd say they could be close to or past $400K by the last day or two. That's two big goals for the light warjacks giving more alternative poses and weapons to the sets.

Plus if their KS runs like most others than the last day might easily make up another 100K to jump up to the $500K which is the current limit for additional stuff.



I'd say the trickle-feed amount they are getting is pretty healthy considering the nature of the KS and that goals they have set.

They're at $349,380/350k for the Variant Light Warjacks now.

They also posted a new update that is far, far too large for me to copy/paste over with any reliable hope at the formatting staying in place discussing the various tiers and what gets what.

Sunno wrote:
TBH from what I have played, GW rules are “good enough for what its looking to achieve”. It just amuses me when people try to fit the square GW ruleset into the round hole of competitive play and expect it to work.

For me it is the opposite, GW fails hard with what they want to achieve
A casual game that is fun for everyone, were you can just buy the models you like from visuals and background and still have can have a fun game with nor argument about rules or discussions prior on what house rules to be used.

it wants to be: "ask if matched play, open or narrative, decide on points, chose mission and everyone has a fair chance of winning"
it it does nothing of that without prior arguing about which house rules should be used

while PP is at least honest as they don't advertise the rules to be something different

EXCITING updates!

So they've unlocked the concept art book and there's two new renders up showing variant warjacks AND a fully armed heavy warjack render AND AND something else that's rather cool and worth seeing in the update that I can't link here





https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/privateerpress/warcaster-neo-mechanika/posts/2788063?ref=ksr_email_backer_project_update_registered_users

Wow, those look awful. It's like Infinity through the filter of Warmachine's worst disproportionality.

I don’t know. The first design is kind of overdone, but the second design has its charms. Specifically, the torso (minus the Flux Catastrophator there) is really cool with the digitigrade legs. It looks like something out a Titan AE-era video game. Plus, it has the knees of Torgo and the bulge of Big Jim Slade.

The last design might need a second pair of legs or some training wheels or something. Maybe give it Professor X’s hover chair.

 Overread wrote:

#TrumpBot

I think the Lego looks better and that's not saying much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:

Also, somebody should get this 'jack a laxative. That squat makes it look close to turning itself inside out trying to force one out.

i think, give it another leg in the back that looks like it could brace or something and it would be cool and make more sense

 ScarletRose wrote:
Wow, those look awful. It's like Infinity through the filter of Warmachine's worst disproportionality.

Not sure if they're rushing the alternate sculpts due to Kickstarter / really fast delivery dates... but I do think the originals looked better. Hopefully, these are still being worked on.

It's the loadouts on the variants that make them look goofy.

Worth mentioning that it looks as though the weapons on them are the $400k stretch goal weapons as well so who knows what the hell they are.



The shoulder bit on the Dusk Wolf variant looks like some kind of shield generator bit.

ScarletRose wrote:Wow, those look awful. It's like Infinity through the filter of Warmachine's worst disproportionality.

This.

Typing in "deviant art mecha" into an image search gives consistently better looking designs.

I kinda like it, though I'm definitely preferring the Marcher world aesthetic. Might be a little close to my existing jacks though.

Wow, those jacks are... fine, I guess? It's hard not to be derivative with bipedal war engines, but these don't really add anything new, and aren't particularly interesting looking. It's a shame, because the genre bending nature of WMH really allowed for some interesting aesthetics. These are just generic, anime influenced high tech future aesthetic.

Okay, something about those renders made me see this, and I can't unsee it:

The bulbous part of the warjacks' torsos are the cranium; the gorget is the lower jaw; the head is some crap hanging out of the mouth.

Anyone else?

(Not especially the case on the pirate dudes, but, still.)

The whole head is a big mess of multiple plates and cables. Like it's puking it's own face.

Honestly the more I see of the models the more I like them. Definetly up my aesthetic alley. I hope the game takes off so I can jump in.

I'm just trying to decide how big to go in, should start with a decent following locally. Love the Marcher Worlds Jacks, just wish there infantry wore enclosed armor more like the paladins.