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I would go for Webway Warriors, if it works (I guess it works but I am no rules lawyer.) Then with the new detachment where you can take 1 more of a unit that you can only take once for 1 CP you take 2 Autarchs with dragon fusion guns in 2 falcons. Or Fire Dragons with Fire Pike for Exarch - give them more range. Then use your strand dice to auto 6 to hit for 2 hits for them. Or simply use that for the falcon main guns if they get also one more hit on 6s (rule lawyer?) That way you make 2 gigantic holes, that hopefully get past the invulnerable saves.
Rest Dire Avengers for the mass of shots to generate more hits with 6s, that wound +1.
Turn 2 let the wraith guard come in from a cool as webway gate. Make more giant holes with webway Warriors and strand dice.
WEBWAY WARRIORS
The warriors of this craftworld know many of the secret paths of the webway, and can use them to launch devastating ambushes on their foes.
When a Reinforcement unit with this attribute is set up on the battlefield for the first time, until the end of the turn, each time a model in that unit makes an attack, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores 1 additional hit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Reinforcement unit: Unit that starts the battle in a location other than the battlefield.
So, giving the falcon an extra shot with strands dice also possible, no trick needed. You can make the autarch come in t2 through portal for another good strands dice hit duplication.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/31 00:30:08
What would Wally the World Eater do?
I must rebuild the resistance, so we can resist the uprising against the insurgency who is resisting the rebellion against the insurrection!
No tears - look towards the stars at the uprising dawn. The resistance will be there, and Tribore will be there leading it!
yeah, both ww and mobile fighters seem to have a lot of potential.
for now im going back to ulthwe, though, and that raises some new questions.
1- Scatter lasers are my favorite heavy weapon for eldar right now as I have played masterful/swift strikes but ap0 seems a lot less good when everyone will just be at 2+ in cover.
So what do you guys run on your falcons, vipers, war walkers, wraith lords for example? shuriken canons are ap0 against AoC too, but does 2 dam and then theres the occasional ap3.
Brightlances feel a bit expensive on vipers and similar, but I love how few quality shots fit with ulthwe.
2- also, how do you guys feel about seer of the shifting vector? in nephilim with so much fever CP being spent in games I dont feel its an auto include at all.
3- helm or weeping stones or both?
4- i see footlocks in lists. why? I much prefer he sky runner. should I change my stance on that?
5- do we simply never run the bike-tarch any more? idk, I sort of like him. thing is, obviously, that with ulthwe I feel eldrad/sky seer are mandatory. so in a batalleon he will take up baharoths slot and I typically spend a cp to give him substorm. you save 55 points. thats almost 5 avengers. Whats better; bike-tarch on sunny/5 avengers or baharoth?
6- my leanest ulthwe psyker setup is: eldrad with guide, fortune, fateful. Sky seer with doom, will of Assyrian and then a sky lock with jinx. Sometimes I sprinkle the helm in there for ghost walk or focus will. I love to run a third farseer for consistency and executioner into retributors (and other good 1w models) and full strands manipulation, but if you want to keep a bataleon that means no baharoth. so most of the times I can only go 2 farceurs. do you feel, that I am focusing on the right powers?
Scoundrel80 wrote: im brewing up new stuff for craft worlds after playing ulthwe with good to really good results during all of nephilim.
I tried swift strikes/masterfull last week and now im toying with mobile fighters and trip falcons plus two weave serpents. I dont know what to pair it with and honestly, im not loving it. Neither with melee nor with avengers.
any for flung builds out there that work and could maybe match or almost match ulthwe? (Hail doesn't count : )
Webway fighter as described above. Because then you come in with the falcon unpack autarch and 5 dire avengers and unload all your shots with exploding 6s +1 to wound, reroll 1 for dire avengers. Strands for 6 to hit exploding for Autarch and Falcons, because then they wound trough Toughness 8 with 2s and Toughness 9 on 3s - that combination makes the big holes I mentioned above. Then you instantly have 2 rounds of shooting at once with autarch dragon fusion gun Str 9 ap -4 D D6+2.
And falcon 2 shots S9 ap -3 s D3+3 - so with 3 strands dice to hit you can basically make your falcon and avatar make 2 rounds worth of hits in the first one round of shooting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Scoundrel80 wrote: yeah, both ww and mobile fighters seem to have a lot of potential.
for now im going back to ulthwe, though, and that raises some new questions.
1- Scatter lasers are my favorite heavy weapon for eldar right now as I have played masterful/swift strikes but ap0 seems a lot less good when everyone will just be at 2+ in cover.
So what do you guys run on your falcons, vipers, war walkers, wraith lords for example? shuriken canons are ap0 against AoC too, but does 2 dam and then theres the occasional ap3.
Brightlances feel a bit expensive on vipers and similar, but I love how few quality shots fit with ulthwe.
2- also, how do you guys feel about seer of the shifting vector? in nephilim with so much fever CP being spent in games I dont feel its an auto include at all.
3- helm or weeping stones or both?
4- i see footlocks in lists. why? I much prefer he sky runner. should I change my stance on that?
5- do we simply never run the bike-tarch any more? idk, I sort of like him. thing is, obviously, that with ulthwe I feel eldrad/sky seer are mandatory. so in a batalleon he will take up baharoths slot and I typically spend a cp to give him substorm. you save 55 points. thats almost 5 avengers. Whats better; bike-tarch on sunny/5 avengers or baharoth?
6- my leanest ulthwe psyker setup is: eldrad with guide, fortune, fateful. Sky seer with doom, will of Assyrian and then a sky lock with jinx. Sometimes I sprinkle the helm in there for ghost walk or focus will. I love to run a third farseer for consistency and executioner into retributors (and other good 1w models) and full strands manipulation, but if you want to keep a bataleon that means no baharoth. so most of the times I can only go 2 farceurs. do you feel, that I am focusing on the right powers?
First look at the new arcs of omens detachments, you can take 4 characters and 6 heavy detachment slots or fast attack with ease. Changes a lot.
1. Rumours say they might remove armour of contempt for something different. Even with it Jinx + amount of shots is awesome. Furthermore you need the amount of shots to remove troops doing objectives as their might be sticky objectives in arcs of omens. Additional, harlequins and leviathan also needs mass of shots to kill them effectively, even when harlequin invul might go up to 5+ (rumour). Especially when you only wound on 4+. So Falcons scatter - they drop in, I scatter some troops of an objective and pulse laser something big. Vyper - scatter laser - they hop on an objective and stay there that my enemy has to come remove them, therefore they need to scatter it free and be cheap that their lose doesn't hurt. Walkers - scatter laser. They screen my core against first turn shenanigans. Because I need my rangers phantasmed away to scout the enemy victory points.
Only the wraith lords gets shuriken catapult or flamer - because they needed to get close and personal.
For my enemy it feels like he is fighting against the Mayday techno festival laser show.
2. Getting the CP is so seldom, than you can't plan with it. Not an autoinclude for me too.
3. Helm nearly guarantees save psychic interrogation victory points with a strands dice especially against Tyranids and world eaters, so helm > stones. But stones are very nice, but I like the Phönix Gem a lot too.
4. If you have a backyard psycher that guides your troops, fateful divergence command points and focus will eldrad, he can be far back and should stay there for safety. Easier to hide, easy to save in a wave serpent.
5. Autarchs were overshadowed and pushed out by crowded troop slots. He can roll with the shining spears and is strong, but can be focused down when going off. Barraoth and a bike seer with sunstorm did the same trick. As you can more reliable smite and executioner troops of an objective than remove them with 1 shot and 6 attacks.
6. Swap fateful and doom and guide and will of asurian and replace fateful with focus will. First guide, them boost eldrad and cast all important powers with him for consistency. Jinx is awesome with scatters so good choice. I guess ghost walk only important when you count on wraiths. Maybe you can take all the psychers you want with the new detachment. That way you can unleash your full energy while hysterical laughing and then lose to abhor the witch.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/02 09:14:48
What would Wally the World Eater do?
I must rebuild the resistance, so we can resist the uprising against the insurgency who is resisting the rebellion against the insurrection!
No tears - look towards the stars at the uprising dawn. The resistance will be there, and Tribore will be there leading it!
Good luck, write us how it went I would go eldrad, bike seer sunstorm and barraoth.
If you don't plan on rocking your bike autarch with shinning spears, also ultwe might not be the best craftworld for shining spears.
But most of all - barraoth is so annoying for most enemies, that they overextend or make other failures to try to get rid of him. Some get so annoyed that they get caught up in rambling about elf shenanigans and forget about winning.
Use his fun annoyance as long as it lasts. Till gw decides we had to much fun, or it bothers the space dwarfs too much.
Take two barraoths in arks and let your enemies ramble even more. ;D
What would Wally the World Eater do?
I must rebuild the resistance, so we can resist the uprising against the insurgency who is resisting the rebellion against the insurrection!
No tears - look towards the stars at the uprising dawn. The resistance will be there, and Tribore will be there leading it!
haha..two baharoths would be too much for most of my opponents to handle.
thing is, im playing a rather new player this weekend. A good friend and also a dude who plays Ultramarines. so therefore im actually playing around the strongest choices like 2x10 hawks, baha, hail, 18 mw spikes through kurnous bow and some of the more abusive combos or list types that I normally run when going competitive.
i want something strong but more straight forward and less NPE. Thats why I am going back to ulthwe for this event. They are strong but generalists.
The mobile fighters list I wanted to build with 3x6 avengers popping out of falcons and then 10 more out of a serpent was just too much. it would remove big chunks of his army without him being able to do anything but screen. and with marines i feel that game would be rather one sided.
So im going with two rather crazy ideas:
- a 3 falcon battalion with tons of avengers but ultwhe instead of mobile/masterful. Then no hawks and autarch over baha. Eldrad, farseer on bike, 3x vipers, x3 rangers, 5scorps, 6 banshees, warlock on bike.
- a brigade (to get 4 heavy slots and still have the CP to linked fire a couple of times) with 3x rangers 3x defenders, 2x prisms, 2x3 d cannons, 3x vipers, eldrad, sky seer, autarch, lock on bike and 3x5 avengers.
but now im fearing that maybe I shouldn't toy around too much as eldar really dont like to stand and take a firefight.
Maybe I should just go safe : )
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/01/02 12:42:41
Most opponents don't have a strong enough heart for two barraoths.
What is NPE?
I would go for the falcon battalion. And a fusion gun, howling banshee mask, war jump generator autarch with Phönix gem. That way you can show him most of the tricks - fight last, battle focus, aeldari strand auto hits and revive so he learns all of them. Also explain beforehand that it you might kill his characters like that, if he leaves an opening for it. Tell him about the falcon first round drop in, so he knows. Congratulate him on good plays of himself.
I wouldn't go double prism because it is feels bad to run into something that you could only avoid beforehand when setting up your army and can't shoot back, with knowledge that a new player hasn't. And don't even have an invul save or any roll against.
I think good behaviour towards new players, especially friends is:
1. Tell them your nasty tricks beforehand, they will try to avoid, but still fall for it in some turn, as they are not so experienced.
2. Make a balanced army, so you can show them every part of the game and what your army is strong in. Like Eldrad, Farseer Skyrunner with sunstorm.
3. Give them small stuff to remove - new players will lose, but they consolate themself wit, but look how much I killed of your army.
4. Give them big stuff to remove. Feels even better when the new player killed a lot and not only the peasents.
5. Write down favourite moments of the game and read their rules. After the game, make a walkthrough like in chess. Tell them how they could have done their nasty tricks. They will trick next game.
Like if you would have bodyblocked there, my banshees wouldn't have gotten into the fight this turn...
With that stratagem here you could have increased your damage output and kill my falcon to target my autarch. Math explanation...
6. The always good sentence: "that was well played of you. With a bit more of those plays you would have won."
What would Wally the World Eater do?
I must rebuild the resistance, so we can resist the uprising against the insurgency who is resisting the rebellion against the insurrection!
No tears - look towards the stars at the uprising dawn. The resistance will be there, and Tribore will be there leading it!
Fip wrote: Most opponents don't have a strong enough heart for two barraoths.
What is NPE?
I think good behaviour towards new players, especially friends is:
1. Tell them your nasty tricks beforehand, they will try to avoid, but still fall for it in some turn, as they are not so experienced.
2. Make a balanced army, so you can show them every part of the game and what your army is strong in. Like Eldrad, Farseer Skyrunner with sunstorm.
3. Give them small stuff to remove - new players will lose, but they consolate themself wit, but look how much I killed of your army.
4. Give them big stuff to remove. Feels even better when the new player killed a lot and not only the peasents.
5. Write down favourite moments of the game and read their rules. After the game, make a walkthrough like in chess. Tell them how they could have done their nasty tricks. They will trick next game.
Like if you would have bodyblocked there, my banshees wouldn't have gotten into the fight this turn...
With that stratagem here you could have increased your damage output and kill my falcon to target my autarch. Math explanation...
6. The always good sentence: "that was well played of you. With a bit more of those plays you would have won."
Dude, we think alike you and me : ) meine mutter ist auch deutsch. Vielleicht deswegen?
I agree on and have thought about all your points. I will not only tell him all my tricks, I will help him remember his too, if he forgets any : )
NPE is negative playing experience. To me with eldar thats basically: too much mechanics that allow popping out after shooting, too much psyker dominance, hail of doom spam and maybe stuff like kurnows bow maxed out and some of the more insane alpha strike lists you can build with mobile warriors for example. also, 2-3x10 hawks and baharoth is just.. really hard to enjoy for an inexperienced player, id say.
Problem is that I shouldn't loose on purpose in any way. he´d hate that. he is an experienced min/max type of board gamer and has played 4-5 1000 point games before. so he can play 40k. just only been in it for a few months while I know my book (and his) in and out.
i want him to face a strong eldar army that plays like eldar armies do, just with out most of the non interactive stuff (thats why I dont run Baha and quicken for example.) But he should also lean about that, which is why I've added 10 hawks just now. I've ended up with list and maybe its too strong actually.
does it have enough anti tank between the dragons and 4 pulselaser shots? I had a twin brightlance on the serpent but changed it to give the firedragons +4 inches of range and bs2 for the exarch.
Das Deutsche könnte es sein.
Because we Germans are a lot about Settlers of Catan Gaming - you don't hurt each other and beat the game. Those are the games that sell the best in Germany.
Also my chess club has the written motto:
"Durch Spiele werden aus Gegnern Freunde,
Durch Freunde werden Spiele erst schön."
"Through games enemies become friends,
Through friends games become splendid."
And we had lots of awesome games in every board game. Because we talk about and improve each other after the game with game analyzation - such a chess thing - but always good to do.
And playing through several times the same game, we improved and had awesome games, where it really was a battle of the minds.
If you want to blunt your damage a little more, you could take suppressing fire on hawks instead of crushing blows on scorpions.
Well yes list is strong. Good stuff in it. But will show him the good tricks. No need to make it especially weak. If you feel you race ahead to much you can always split fire for maximum inefficiency or expose your units more.
A good screen will be worth a ton. So tell him ahead so that he can think about how he might avoid the threat of the avengers/ fire dragons/ falcons dropping in by hiding out of range of the fire dragons or defensively first turn.
What would Wally the World Eater do?
I must rebuild the resistance, so we can resist the uprising against the insurgency who is resisting the rebellion against the insurrection!
No tears - look towards the stars at the uprising dawn. The resistance will be there, and Tribore will be there leading it!
You can't just ignore strats, secondaries, faction traits, and the entire book of other units available to the faction that can potentially synergize with a given unit. It makes no sense to compare two units in a vacuum like that.
Also FYI nobody runs deathmarks while just about every eldar list runs rangers. Rangers are practically autotake in CWE lists while deathmarks pretty much don't exist as far as necron players are concerned. Try to think more about the role of a unit within the context of your army, rather than pure stats.
artific3r wrote: You can't just ignore strats, secondaries, faction traits, and the entire book of other units available to the faction that can potentially synergize with a given unit. It makes no sense to compare two units in a vacuum like that.
Also FYI nobody runs deathmarks while just about every eldar list runs rangers. Rangers are practically autotake in CWE lists while deathmarks pretty much don't exist as far as necron players are concerned. Try to think more about the role of a unit within the context of your army, rather than pure stats.
You're absolutely right about the secondaries, strats, faction traits.... that said, I (personally) believe that Deathmarks have the advantage here. CWE have a lot of advantages, but I don't think that many of those are applicable to rangers as they have better targets.
Additionally, I think that Deathmarks may be finding ways into lists as they are cheaper than Immortals and have better backline holding synergy as they have a better BS. Also, they have an intercept strat they can use on incoming threats that doesn't require character support. Something that may be required with the number of Plasma Incepters I'm expecting to see on the board now.
As for the autotake... well... we'll see how much of an autotake Rangers are in AoO, seeing as they are no longer a Forced take with the new force org detachment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/10 14:48:17
Rangers were being taken as the cheapest possible troops choice to save CP - basically, I'm willing to waste some points to gain some CP and have a battalion.
They do however provide value for completion of the secondary on our turn rather than completing in our next command phase. They're nowhere near as good as the rangers on bikes, but for those of us who aren't intending to buy those, foot rangers will have to do for now.
They're certainly not taken for their damage output, sniping or no sniping.
one thing I do know is this; rangers are amazing in swift strike builds. They advance and shoot at bs 2 and I think they can even battelfokus move after that due to counting as having remained stationary. It makes it way easier to get them around the tale for scout he enemy etc.
I saw a screen shot of a batlescribe file with arks of omen detachment. but that can't be true, right? my version doesn't update.. is it too early still?
I have to admit I'm a bit confused about AoO and the perception of the Eldar faction in general.
I've been listening to several prominent podcasts stating that CWE specifically will be stronger in AoO because SM's lost AoC. Yet, in the next sentence state that SM's are going to be one of, if not "the", strongest faction in this next season.
So far I've had a few games against SM and I will admit that they seem to die a bit easier... but they have SO many more bodies to deal with that I'm finding it a lot harder to score against them.
Am I the only one feeling this way? If so, what are others doing now to pull out the win?
I haven't played arks with eldar yet, but Id say were good.
i have been building these lists:
- I can play my allround ulthwe list sans 1 unit of rangers that I dont need anymore (due to no troop tax) its shuriken fire will rip marines apart now and the rest of the list should be just as good or better than it used to be. VP vise idk. I think were still reasonably okay in regards to secondaries but.. well. its not a super strong selection for us.
- an ulthwe shooting list with 2 prisms and 3x3 dcannon batteries plus a lot of cheap screening units. the list is amazingly different and can now function due to more cp. I can't wait to give it a spin.
- hypermobile list with swift strike. this one got neutered as 3x10 hawks is not as good now. so i only run 1x10 and a lot of rangers instead (can move shoot move with out penalty). Should be fun.
all in all I feel we just lose a unit of rangers generally in builds. The ap 1 being back should compensate. Id say we still have marines covered generally due to movement issues. I always feel we can isolate whatever they put forward to score and kill that, rinse and repeat, but as said, they might just be to many now. I simply dont know yet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/23 16:05:06
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Getting caught, slowly, and stating to review Arc of Omen detachment. Looks interesting.
For a fun game, it appears now we can run a Wraithknight and it will get Craftworld traits with Arc of Omen detachment (unless I missed something). Anything stand out with the inclusion of traits for Wraithknights? I ask mainly because I have 4 Wraithknights sitting on shelves for the past few years and just really like the model.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
We eneded up just playing standard eternal war and ignored all FAQ/ CA it was actually fun game. I did the good ol switachroo and phatasmed my wraith units going all in on right flank and then just staying away pew pewing.
Felt kinda bad coz the guy was fairly new so I held back on dire avengers(did not strat dump and shoot twice). Recon they could have wiped his bladeguard even with apothecary but i let him get in charge range so at least he kills something and has fun. We then just ended up throwing down and my wraith seer was going toe to toe with his emperor's champion somehow we both lived through 2 rounds of combat... both making invuln saves haha
I think at this point I will just wait till 10th before I get back into more games. Will play the ol one here and there but i just feel so far out the loop not digging it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/29 01:08:19
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Well, my thoughts earlier about doom and gloom seem to be unfounded. I'm still struggling to find the right list but the last few games I've had have been close, even though they were losses. Though I am still finding secondaries difficult as, at least in my meta, players know how to play against the common ones, like behind enemy lines, and scout the enemy...
All that said, I'm playing a Hail of Doom list and I really like what it can do. I do really struggle vs Knights and Thousand Suns (flamers are still a thing) but at least I can see the potential.
The list is as follows:
Hail of Doom
Farseer Skyrunner - MW build
Farseer
Farseer
Rangers x5
Rangers x5
Rangers x5
Dire Avengers x10
Dire Avengers x10
Dire Avengers x10
SaganGree wrote: Well, my thoughts earlier about doom and gloom seem to be unfounded. I'm still struggling to find the right list but the last few games I've had have been close, even though they were losses. Though I am still finding secondaries difficult as, at least in my meta, players know how to play against the common ones, like behind enemy lines, and scout the enemy...
All that said, I'm playing a Hail of Doom list and I really like what it can do. I do really struggle vs Knights and Thousand Suns (flamers are still a thing) but at least I can see the potential.
The list is as follows:
Hail of Doom
Farseer Skyrunner - MW build
Farseer
Farseer
Rangers x5
Rangers x5
Rangers x5
Dire Avengers x10
Dire Avengers x10
Dire Avengers x10
Wow. looks amazing. how are those prisms performing for you? I really like them again.
In theory at least. I used to run them a lot and have now tinkered forth a 2x prism/3x3 d-cannon batteries build as we can have 5 heavy support slots in arks and still have 4-6 cp to linked fire and maybe buff those dcannons with some scouts and black guardian strat.
thats one of the reasons why I run this off of ulthwe. Makes the prisms shots much more of a "ok, remove that piece I point at now" too.
haven't tried any prisms yet in arks, though.
So yeah, are you getting anything out of them? : )
Wow. looks amazing. how are those prisms performing for you? I really like them again.
In theory at least. I used to run them a lot and have now tinkered forth a 2x prism/3x3 d-cannon batteries build as we can have 5 heavy support slots in arks and still have 4-6 cp to linked fire and maybe buff those dcannons with some scouts and black guardian strat.
thats one of the reasons why I run this off of ulthwe. Makes the prisms shots much more of a "ok, remove that piece I point at now" too.
haven't tried any prisms yet in arks, though.
So yeah, are you getting anything out of them? : )
People are (rightly) afraid of what the fire prisms can do so they're giving me some initial board control that I lacked before.
The last game I played was against CK... not an easy fight. But, Skew lists are always hard for Eldar. But I was able to drop his Big guy from all the way across the board which demoralized him a bit but from that point on we were just trading back and forth until I just couldn't put out enough firepower to drop the Armagers. (Heh, dread tests are no joke) but he got me on primaries and so I lost the game but it felt better than it has in a while. Once I can get the list played a bunch of times I think I can get everything dialed in.
There are few things that annoy me more than a demoralised opponent who complains about my rules (not saying yours did btw) who still goes on to beat me on points.
I’m thinking of playing around with Eldar again, and I’m considering Saim-Hann for fluff reasons, but also because I feel they can make solid shining spears squads.
How are shining spears doing? For those that run them, do you choose squads of 3 or 6? Something in between?
Eldar- 4436 pts
