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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Incubi and Drahzar trade up so hard on our bikes they are actually a bad choice. So does DT liquifiers for that matter, and dark lances.


Bikes are almost useless against Drukari......

Termies are better just because they can ignore AP1 and 2, meaning only 6's to wound with the incubi and drahzar himself scare them.

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Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




 Eihnlazer wrote:
Incubi and Drahzar trade up so hard on our bikes they are actually a bad choice. So does DT liquifiers for that matter, and dark lances.


Bikes are almost useless against Drukari......

Termies are better just because they can ignore AP1 and 2, meaning only 6's to wound with the incubi and drahzar himself scare them.


So I've got some bad news for you. Incubi are AP-3, not -2. The Klavex is -2 when he does the extra attacks profile, but if he uses the single blade profile he's AP-3. All his Incubi buddies with him in the squad are ALSO, always, AP-3.
   
Made in at
Dakka Veteran




Yeah, getting charged by incubi is bad...best to shoot them, if you can crack open their transports.
Imo the best way to deal with them in melee is to use tanglefoot grenade hoping that you roll high enough
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Still makes the termies more durable against most drukari stuff.

Wich's and court are all ap-1 or 2.

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Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Incubi and Drahzar trade up so hard on our bikes they are actually a bad choice. So does DT liquifiers for that matter, and dark lances.


Bikes are almost useless against Drukari......

Termies are better just because they can ignore AP1 and 2, meaning only 6's to wound with the incubi and drahzar himself scare them.

I mean, it's already been established that Bikes are the weakest unit in the codex (in terms of survivability) for the points. They don't have a 3++ invul, T6 is basically the same as T5 for most situations, Vexillas can't keep up with them, they have no special rules that make them tougher and you have to pay CP to put them in deepstrike. Easily the least survivable unit in the codex for the points, with or without broken DEldar.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/04 00:08:14


Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




What does that say about our faction then? Our "lease survivable" unit is T6 4 wounds, with a 2+4++6+++. for about 90 points, that can't be our Worst unit. I would say for the cost, our LRs are worse.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




LR is obviously the worst because LRs are terrible no matter what book they are in. The codex Contemptor is also junk, largely because the FW variants are just so much better that you'd never, ever take one. There's some bad FW stuff too.

Other than that, the bikes do get my vote for worst unit in the actual codex that's a real unit and not just a meme. They need a ton of work, right now they are painfully bad for the points.

   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
What does that say about our faction then? Our "lease survivable" unit is T6 4 wounds, with a 2+4++6+++. for about 90 points, that can't be our Worst unit. I would say for the cost, our LRs are worse.

Like Yuki said, our least survivable unit that isn't a complete joke of a unit.

It's a unit that on paper looks really tough but in reality suffers heavily from the direction 9th ed firepower is heading in: AP across the board on almost every unit, D2 weapons becoming common place and the continued problem that T6 is a really weird toughness.

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in de
[DCM]
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Plus the fact that AT weapons now have basically a minimum of 4D with Cognis Las and several other things that basically oneshot a bike, ripping 85 points of your list with a single wound.
Compare that to a DE Raider and yes... The jetbikes look pitiful (albeit that is hardly a fair comparison as raiders are broken at that price).

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Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Can we PLEASE stop comparing our units and faction to the most easily broken codex to drop in 40k since 7th ed GK? Yes, our bikes suck compared to DE, but that's hardly a fitting argument is it? Do we really expect GW to catapult us into 9th with a 45ppm bike squad? Or 38 ppm terminators?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Bikes obviously won't be 45 points, but if they stay their current anemic, problematic selves, they probably do need to be more like 65, rather than the silly 85 they currently cost. But I'd rather they just made them worth 85 instead.
   
Made in de
[DCM]
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Yes, I know. Thats why I added the sentence in parenthesis.
Yet the original argument still stands.
Its a coinflip if you loose 85pts to a single wound. That should simply not be possible. Terminators suffer the same, but they have different abilities that make it somewhat less severe.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/06 09:11:20


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Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




If GW does intend on cleaning up its plastic side of the house, they need to give us something reflecting the current direction the game "Appears" to be taking. We might as well be 45 ppm now because we were meant to be hard to kill, but simply aren't now.

One of two things would need to happen for us to be semi-relevant.

1. Drukhari need to get nerfed, hard.

OR

2. We need a massive points re-evaluation.

I don't think giving us giant special rules that only affect us is actually making the game better (ad mech) it's only advancing power creep.
   
Made in de
Mighty Chosen Warrior of Chaos






I have not played since last fall, has the situation with the ares gun ship and its base been resolved?

I think custodes need better profiles +1 wound across the board or army wide Arcane Genetic Alchemy some thing that makes custodes tougher that blade guard and death wing knights and we need better melee weapons. If i compare custodes with death wing knights its just ridiculous how much better the DA rules are.




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/07 07:24:09


 
   
Made in gb
Hungry Ork Hunta Lying in Wait





I'm slowly getting back into my custodes as lockdown eases up, looking forward to dusting them off!

I know our bikers are feeling worse for wear, but how are our Dreadnoughts doing (I own a spear and sword and shield dread) and are Sagg guard + Cordia's still worth using? the D2 upgrade on their bolter section looks super tasty
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






So the FAQ on large models has come out and did fix the Ares. However some places are still now allowing it to do anything on turn 1 on the Dawn of War (long edge's) type deployment maps. I just recently participated in the Dallas Open and after a player complained in round 2, I was told I would have to just suck it up for round 3 (all 3 dawn of war deployments were in day 1).

I ended up just deep striking it in game 3 (was up against a harlequin player) and that worked just fine.

The dreads are all working good. They are a bit more pricey than marine dreads and weaker at range, but are also alot more durable and very competitive in melee.

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Made in gb
Hungry Ork Hunta Lying in Wait





 Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
I'm slowly getting back into my custodes as lockdown eases up, looking forward to dusting them off!

I know our bikers are feeling worse for wear, but how are our Dreadnoughts doing (I own a spear and sword and shield dread) and are Sagg guard + Cordia's still worth using? the D2 upgrade on their bolter section looks super tasty


Also as a quick idea, maybe instead of -1 damage it'll be half damage rounding up (or hell even possibly DOWN to a min of 1 considering how lethal the game is and how expensive even our cheapest model is)?
   
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Dakka Veteran




 Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
I'm slowly getting back into my custodes as lockdown eases up, looking forward to dusting them off!

I know our bikers are feeling worse for wear, but how are our Dreadnoughts doing (I own a spear and sword and shield dread) and are Sagg guard + Cordia's still worth using? the D2 upgrade on their bolter section looks super tasty


Our dreads are awesome and saggitarum guard with misericordia is still a strong option, especially with Trajann rerolls.
The telemon is arguably the strongest and toughest dreadnought in the game. The achillus is great in both shooting and melee and the galatus is a brick wall that hits you back.

Edit: my point being that they are all very playable, even in multiples. John Lennon recently piloted a list with 2 telemons and 3 galatus dreads and souped in imperial guard for objective secured bodies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/07 10:28:09


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter






John Lennon recently piloted a list with 2 telemons and 3 galatus dreads and souped in imperial guard for objective secured bodies.





I....wut? did I miss some rather amazing and wonderful news? Has covid created Zombies of famous people in the old country?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/07 13:00:02


 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


John Lennon recently piloted a list with 2 telemons and 3 galatus dreads and souped in imperial guard for objective secured bodies.





I....wut? did I miss some rather amazing and wonderful news? Has covid created Zombies of famous people in the old country?



He's been using it on the Art of War stream and actually did pretty well in their in-house RTT against his fellow Art of War teammates. I believe the Guard had Scions and Manticores for fire support? Telemons were gun+melee loadout. He did not put Eternal Penitent on anyone if I remember correctly.

EDIT: Here is the list:


Custodes Vanguard (Shadowkeepers)

Trajann Valoris 190

Telemon (Arachnus, Caestus) 275
Telemon (Arachnus, Caestus) 275

Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought 170
Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought 170
Contemptor-Galatus Dreadnought 170

Imperial Guard Battalion (Gunnery Experts, disciplined shooters)

Company commander (warlord) 35
Company commander (Kurov’s Aquila) 35

10x Infantry 55
10x Infantry 55
5x Scions 45

Platoon commander 25
Command squad (4x plasma) 65
Command squad (4x plasma) 65
Command squad (4x plasma) 65

Manticore (Full Payload, HKM, Augur) 155
Manticore (Full Payload, HKM) 150


Here is a link to one of the matches (against DG, he later lost to Adepta Sororitas):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGRZ01bbK8g

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/07 13:07:36


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Just played my first game with pure Stodes last night, for 9th. Against a 1k sons army. I never realized how much we depend on pre-game CP usage.

Maybe that's something that could be baked into our chapter? "Vigilants of the Golden Throne" get always on Auspex scan, and Victor of the blood games for all Wardens.

"Defenders of His Will" chapter - Each SC has the ability to Deny the witch as a psyker?
   
Made in at
Dakka Veteran




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Just played my first game with pure Stodes last night, for 9th. Against a 1k sons army. I never realized how much we depend on pre-game CP usage.

Maybe that's something that could be baked into our chapter? "Vigilants of the Golden Throne" get always on Auspex scan, and Victor of the blood games for all Wardens.

"Defenders of His Will" chapter - Each SC has the ability to Deny the witch as a psyker?


What did you use use on pre-game strats? The only thing I use nowadays is the captain commander strat and eternal penitent....i rarely ever use victor of the blood games for example.
Also, how'd the game go?

Lennon not using eternal penitent on his dreads could have been because of the CP cost of using a Vanguard and the sheer number of dreadnoughts. Eternal penitent is great, but paying for each dreadnought when you bring 5 of them is very, very steep.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/07 13:41:56


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Game went about as expected, I got ROFLstomped, I gave him the wounds upgrade because it was BS they don't have it yet, and he went almost full Rubrics and DPs.

Granted I am not a "Great" player, but I should have performed better. He just rolled hot on smites, and each one was basically a dead Custodian. My bikes did better work than my Shields, and Trajann fell defending my back field against a DP.

I just think we need more Auto-baked in CP strats. It's silly that we can't get Bolter Discipline on our bikes. Granted that would be hella bonkers, but we need to be bonkers for the cost per model.

I was more talking about if it was THE John Lennon, the Beatle, not some 40k player. My bad for crappy sarcasm.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






So looking forward at the Lonestar Open, I think im going to not bring the shadowkeepers list i did at the Dallas open.

The list is fine, and i've gotten competent at piloting it, but adjusting for the meta I've decided to run something different.

Assuming I get my Venetari in the mail in time to get them painted, I plan on running Emissaries Imperatus battalion.

Trajann, Captain Unkillable on a bike
2 squads of 4x sword and board
1 squad of saggitarum/w mis
5 venetari
triple autocannon caladius

The decision to go back to triple autocannon tanks is mostly due to the drukari and still majority marine meta.

Simply stated, they shred both marines and drukari like nobodies business. I do hamstring myself against knights and Death guard, but tbh, I can probably just outscore the knights and Death guard are not gonna be out en masse with the drukari rampaging around.



Does this seem logical?

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Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




I'm confused "triple AC Caladius"?

Did I miss a build option? I thought it only got the two guns and it's base weapons?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




He means three tanks, each armed with the accelerator cannon.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Oh, that makes way more sense.

Given the range on the AC Caladius, and the propensity for camping in 9th, I'm surprise we don't see those in more lists? They are a great TAC unit as opposed to the storm cannon variant which is more of a dedicated heavy AT platform.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Telemons squeeze them out of lists pretty thoroughly, because the Telemon is literally twice as durable for only 35 points more.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Brass Scorpion of Khorne





Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!

So...

T7 14W 3+/5++ 14" movement flying platform
w/ 8x S7 AP-3 D2 & 6x S6 AP-2 D1 shots

Or

T8 14W 2+/4++/6+++ -1 to incoming damage platform
w/ 8x S7 AP-3 D2 & 5(10)x S5 AP-1 D1 shots

Damage output is basically the same if the Telemon is firing twice and you are just so much harder to kill, the only reason you'd take the grav tanks over the Telemon is either for the speed (which isn't necessary if you're castling up with Vexillas and Trajann) or you're running three and you need the extra 105pts for something.

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Thing is, I think a tank can survive long enough to earn it's points and more, whereas the Telemon has a giant flashing neon sign that says "PRIORITY THREAT HERE"

I'm not the best with Telemons, mine always get shot off the table rather quickly. No one ever bothers with my tank though.
   
 
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