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I've been wanting some DE battle bros for my Eldar, and I like Vect. I also like Vect's equally expensive pimp ride, the Dais of Destruction. Everyone seems to think this thing sucks. All I'm seeing is an AV13 Ravager/Raider combo pack that gives its passengers Preferred Enemy Everything, which seems great. Oh, and I will get to go first the overwhelming majority of games, which is awesome. Why am I crazy for liking this thing?

The main drawback I see everyone talking about is cost. For me I like it, and am still trying to beat the model out of my brother's collection.

450 odd pts is ridiculous for 2 models really. You might as well get a forgeworld tantalus and plop a normal Archon in it. It's cheaper and the weapon options are better!

Yeah, in an army where every point seems to be at a premium, Vect and his hooptie just seem like a needless extravagance. I'd only take it if I were trying to pad out my list to meet a points limit I couldn't otherwise get to.

It has had it's moments I admit, but it would only work in a certain type of army. A hybrid footlist, because if there are a lot of raiders and venoms you then that big expensive raider is just that, but if there are few raiders around that he has little choice to shoot at you strangely resilient raider. My best moments with it have been when My Dias was supported by an Allied Eldrad, giving it either Fortune or Invisibility or sometimes both! I had an entire IG gunline bounce off the Dias due to a 2+ re-rollable cover save. I am still not entirely convinced who is the best posy for him, Blood brides, Incubi or Harlequins. Blood Brides tend not to do enough damage, Incubi tend to do to much and Harlequins area bit to fragile. But I went with Harlequins and it went well, due to OUR Harlequins giving stealth and shrouded as long as you deploy into some sort of cover your fine and dandy. Treat it as a transport, its gun roll is secondary.

OK, so the consensus seems to be just that it's costly, not that it's not useful. That at least makes me feel better. Thanks for the input all!

My beef with the Dais is that you can't give it any upgrades. It costs at least 440 points, then you have to fill it with some random red shirts. All this, and I can't spend a bit more for flickerfields or night shields?

Then it has no idea what it wants to do. It has three dark lances, so it is kind of like a ravager but it can't move 12" and fire all 3 at full BS. Vect is riding inside, and he is a CC machine, so sitting back and shooting is again a waste. For your bodyguard, you can go kabbies for cheap shooty, but wracks work decently well for assault. If you get the thing close to the enemy, it is going to come under serious AT fire and blow up. It tries to do everything and costs too much as a result. If it was cheaper, it would be viable, but it is too much of an investment for not that much utility.

I guess I was comparing it to other AT options in my head. My thought was that something like a Tri-las Pred is 140 ish points, and that has only 1 facing that is AV13, can't move and be effective, and has no built-in save. The dais is obviously more expensive, but is a transport, is fast, can fire 2 weapons at full BS after moving 12", has a built-in save (jink), is AV13 all around, and Vect can come screaming out of it and assault someone that tries to get too close. Vect giving the crew inside Preferred Enemy is kind of like a ghetto version of splinter racks as well.

Of course, these things SEEM good to me on paper, but I haven't had the opportunity to play it on the board yet. My thought is that it should synergize well with Farseer support and Eldar anti-infantry shooting. Here's the list I'm going to try out:



The thought is to keep farseer near the ravager for passing psychic tests. Give prescience/guide to the dais/ravager until AT threats are downed. Hopefully fortune the Dais as well. In the meantime, wave serpents, Venom, and spiders gun down infantry in the open. If I can make it happen, I'd like to position units correctly so that Vect can hop out and join the Scorpions for an assault. Again, this is the plan, but we all know how those go...

My take... only take Vect's ride if you either need to deliver some cc unit... or you simply need that third "ravager" platform. (ie, taking the Razorwing, 2x Ravagers and the dias... you'd still have three "Ravager").

I think the Tantalus is both better and cooler, so if I were a Dark Eldar player I would prefer to use that every time. Its guns actually synergise pretty well with its intended role, it has some neat special rules, and 5 hull points make it damn durable as well. It also gets a special award for being a vehicle with no less than five sub-types. I would only consider the Dais if I were unfortunate enough to play in a no-FW zone and I wanted to use it for fluff reasons.

It does have it's perks as being the only transport in the game that can hold 9 Grotesques due to the wording of and must be accompanied by 9 other models, it doesn't state the transport capacity, just that it can carry 9 other models. Totally useless, but hey, your not going for over competitiveness anyhow.

Except it does specify the transport capacity - it's a raider... So no grots in the Dias at all!

Not how I see It, it says ''The Dias must begin the game carrying 9 MODELS in addition to Vect himself. Other then this, it is treated exactly like a raider.'' It doesn't say it uses the Raiders transport capacity though.

So what capacity does it have then? It's treated like a raider bar the exceptions. Grots are bulky and thus take up 2 spaces and so can not meet the 9 other model requirement since we are told to treat it like a raider (thus with a capacity of 10).

Could I put 9 Talos in it? The way you want to read it I could since it just says 9 models...

It has the capacity of 9 models, bulky or not. A Talos can't take it because Monstrous creatures can't enter in Transports, it says so in the BYB. Also they are a single model, so Vect can't join them and since Vect has to be in the Dias, the Talos couldn't either. But it doesn't matter much, because no one ever would do that

This is why the Tantalus is better. 16 capacity allows 7 grots, vect and urien which basically gives them fnp, fc and fearless off the bat in a transport with 4hp, 12 s5 ap2 shots and armor 12 (I think) all round.

The Dais sounds good but a Tantalus is much better. It's also classed as a tank so ramming is amazing after a 18" turbo boost and the scythvanes are just brilliant if you pass over an enemy unit on the way.

Scythvanes do D6 S7 AP2 hits to anything with a tougness value it flat outs over or 1 S7 2D6 to a vehicle.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
It has the capacity of 9 models, bulky or not. A Talos can't take it because Monstrous creatures can't enter in Transports, it says so in the BYB. Also they are a single model, so Vect can't join them and since Vect has to be in the Dias, the Talos couldn't either. But it doesn't matter much, because no one ever would do that

Um no it does not - it is simply stated that vect plus 9 models must be aboard at the start of the game (so 10 models total). That's not the same as capacity - capacity in this case is a limit. What is the limit? We are told to reference the raider which is 10. Nothing there lets you get around the bulky rules

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
It has the capacity of 9 models, bulky or not. A Talos can't take it because Monstrous creatures can't enter in Transports, it says so in the BYB. Also they are a single model, so Vect can't join them and since Vect has to be in the Dias, the Talos couldn't either. But it doesn't matter much, because no one ever would do that

Dude, it says "...other than this, it is treated exactly like a Raider". Source - DE codex P55

Raider: Transport capacity = 10 Source - DE codex, multiple spots
Grotesques = Bulky Source - DE codex, multiple spots
Bulky = Occupy 2 spaces in Transport vehicles Source - BRB P35

Also, the Dais must start with Vect in it, so it can only be a max of 4 Grotesques.

Normally I wouldn't quote rules so specifically but, very rarely, I'm morally obligated to repond to somebody's ignorance.

This is one of those times; you seem to have a complete lack of an ability to cross-reference and, apprently you don't know what the word "exactly" means. Now I know it's a complex game but, in this case it's reader error.

Play style, man. when the board is saturated, the enemy can go after av 13 OR... AV10/11. My guess is the Dais, though important, does a couple things for you: it either attracts survivable attention from the real threats or it gets ignored long enough to unload its peoples. Theres really no downside here UNLESS you leave some critical need, like anti-air, out of the list to make room for it. make sure the other bases are covered before you grab the Dais.

As someone who has faced the Dias multiple times, I can say it's a huge fire magnet. DE armies that include it tend to be a lot smaller so it's not hard to get most of my army firing at it for a round or two until it goes down. I know Vect is supposed to be a cc machine, but I have never seen him actually assault from this vehicle.

try reserving it

It's 440 pts, just for Vect and his whip. Factor in the cost of the passengers as well.

Well, one plus; A Haemonculus, Convrted Vect , 4 Grotesques and Pimped-Up Ravager is a very easy to carry 700 pts.

Next for that honor; 10 fully upgraded Dark Reapers + Eldrad + ADL like 700 points in 3 handfuls of minis...

 RancidHate wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
It has the capacity of 9 models, bulky or not. A Talos can't take it because Monstrous creatures can't enter in Transports, it says so in the BYB. Also they are a single model, so Vect can't join them and since Vect has to be in the Dias, the Talos couldn't either. But it doesn't matter much, because no one ever would do that

Dude, it says "...other than this, it is treated exactly like a Raider". Source - DE codex P55

Raider: Transport capacity = 10 Source - DE codex, multiple spots
Grotesques = Bulky Source - DE codex, multiple spots
Bulky = Occupy 2 spaces in Transport vehicles Source - BRB P35

Also, the Dais must start with Vect in it, so it can only be a max of 4 Grotesques.

Normally I wouldn't quote rules so specifically but, very rarely, I'm morally obligated to repond to somebody's ignorance.

This is one of those times; you seem to have a complete lack of an ability to cross-reference and, apprently you don't know what the word "exactly" means. Now I know it's a complex game but, in this case it's reader error.

I think you're missing something... I don't have the codex handy, but does'Nt the dias state Vect along with 9 other models must start the game embarked?

I theory hammered this in 5th ed when this codex was released, but I was convinced that you couldn't do that.

9 couteers or 9 warriors works fine

Just finished a game with Vect and his pimp ride. It made it to turn 3. Vect popped out and got charged by Kharn and 15 Berzerkers. Vect killed Kharn in one round before he got to swing, then killed a Champion, then killed 8 more zerkers before going down. Good times.

I was thinking about dropping just Vect, his Dais, and a squad of whyches into my Mechdar.

Seemed like a great allied force to add, that doesn't cost much and takes up very little space.

 ductvader wrote:
I was thinking about dropping just Vect, his Dais, and a squad of whyches into my Mechdar.

Seemed like a great allied force to add, that doesn't cost much and takes up very little space.

Well he is indeed a great allied force, but cheap he is not. 440 points for him and his ride, and that's before its occupants.

Cheap in terms of dollars.

I've actually been wondering if perhaps the Dais might not start seeing play in Escalation-enabled games. Getting the first shot off against super-heavies is going to be a lot of players' best shot to win such games, and having a triple-Lance vehicle whose "driver" lets you seize on a 4+ might not be a bad addition to such a plan.

Personally I would prefer to have a Baneblade over Vect and the Dais, since they are more or less the same point cost