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deTox91 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

deTox91 wrote:
I don't know if it's just me but this TS preview looks very disappointing? specially if compared to GK.
No passive bonus of any kind, so most of the army still doesn't have any trait at all,
Time Flux looks decent, but doesn't really have any good target for, maybe just SoT but they are a very underwhelming unit to begin with.
The trait and relic shown are totally MEH, I have a feeling that TS will remain just a Codex Supreme Command detachment still...

I'm having the complete opposite reaction, I think this looks great!

Chaos psychic apothecaries? Yes please!

Auto re-deploys? Yes please!

Auto-pass your powers while forcing failures on your enemies? That's tight!

Plus isn't everyone complaining that they're being too free with passive bonuses? Having cool abilities locked behind mechanic requirements seems like the best of both worlds.

Auto re-deploy -> in your deployment zone which costs a warlord trait, in an army that has no way to take more then 1.
Auto-pass powers -> IF you roll a 1, on a single psychic test, and costs a relic slot which also don't come cheap.

on the passive bonuses I would agree with you if it wasn't for the constant disparity between Imperium and not Imperium, and SM keep on getting tones of passives, nobody else does, this creates a hell of a disadvantage for everybody that doesn't lick the emperors toes, really on the receiving end it sucks

also this just noticed that you're a DA player, so I can feel a very strong bias given that you KNOW that tomorrow you'll be reviewing all your PASSIVE abilities that apparently are a problem if anybody else gets...

Good to know my argument is invalid not on it's merits but based on the army I play.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

deTox91 wrote:
I don't know if it's just me but this TS preview looks very disappointing? specially if compared to GK.
No passive bonus of any kind, so most of the army still doesn't have any trait at all,
Time Flux looks decent, but doesn't really have any good target for, maybe just SoT but they are a very underwhelming unit to begin with.
The trait and relic shown are totally MEH, I have a feeling that TS will remain just a Codex Supreme Command detachment still...

the new strat is OP and will totally feth you in half.

IMAGINE taking 20 rubrics with flamers for the low low cost of 480 pts and deploying them in your opponent's face.

thats TONS OF DAMAGE and has LITTERALLY NO COUNTERS.

Except being seized, or marines deploying their "no deepstrike allowed" units or being a super fragile expensive bomb in your opponents face.....

god i hope the sons get more interesting stuff in the rest of the book.

I mean, no, Rubrics are not going to be deadly deep strike alpha strikers with full units of warpflamers. If you're taking a huge rubric blob, taking just a few warpflamers is a much better idea. Scarab Occults also have that keyword, yes?

The disappointing thing in my eyes is that it's by detachment, and I'm assuming, highly keyword-based. Buffs, strats, relics, etc will only work in-cult. So it's kind of like when other armies get a single bonus strat, relic, and WL trait for their subfaction...except we also don't get to choose our subfaction trait, its always the same, and it's a pretty not awesome one because it could have literally just been built into the rules for the faction.

I'll see what the full leaks are. The stuff they previewed seems good. Just doesn't seem like a huge power boost overall for the faction, nor does it really give me what I was excited for, which was for my dang exalted sorcerors to not all be totally identical.

If any army needed the friggin' "1CP for extra relics no limits" stratagem it's Tsons. Relics and traits is the only way we can differentiate our characters...

Considering TS are very bad at generating CP to boot, it makes the whole thing sadder.

A lazy article light on substance. Book could still be great for TS, and I hope there are some powerful stratagems, but the bundle system is a bit of a pain.

Hey, at least it tells us GW is keeping it consistent and even-steven with these army wide no soup bonuses.

If you're space marines, you get army-wide -1AP on various guns and weapons, and some other small bonus rules like ignoring all to-hit modifiers, rerolling 1s with all heavy weapons, causing 1 extra damage to vehicles with all heavy weapons, stuff like that. You know, fun little bonuses so if you take a Land Raider with the faction CSM, and a land raider with the faction Imperial Fists, the IF land raider kills the CSM land raider before it reaches half-HP.

If you're chaos space marines, you get access to YOUR CHOICE of a bonus warlord trait, relic, stratagem and psychic power. Giving you not nearly as many as you'd get if you played a loyalist space marine chapter with a supplement, but hey. Lets not get crazy.

So you see, it's totally fair!

the_scotsman wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

deTox91 wrote:
I don't know if it's just me but this TS preview looks very disappointing? specially if compared to GK.
No passive bonus of any kind, so most of the army still doesn't have any trait at all,
Time Flux looks decent, but doesn't really have any good target for, maybe just SoT but they are a very underwhelming unit to begin with.
The trait and relic shown are totally MEH, I have a feeling that TS will remain just a Codex Supreme Command detachment still...

the new strat is OP and will totally feth you in half.

IMAGINE taking 20 rubrics with flamers for the low low cost of 480 pts and deploying them in your opponent's face.

thats TONS OF DAMAGE and has LITTERALLY NO COUNTERS.

Except being seized, or marines deploying their "no deepstrike allowed" units or being a super fragile expensive bomb in your opponents face.....

god i hope the sons get more interesting stuff in the rest of the book.

I mean, no, Rubrics are not going to be deadly deep strike alpha strikers with full units of warpflamers. If you're taking a huge rubric blob, taking just a few warpflamers is a much better idea. Scarab Occults also have that keyword, yes?

The disappointing thing in my eyes is that it's by detachment, and I'm assuming, highly keyword-based. Buffs, strats, relics, etc will only work in-cult. So it's kind of like when other armies get a single bonus strat, relic, and WL trait for their subfaction...except we also don't get to choose our subfaction trait, its always the same, and it's a pretty not awesome one because it could have literally just been built into the rules for the faction.

I'll see what the full leaks are. The stuff they previewed seems good. Just doesn't seem like a huge power boost overall for the faction, nor does it really give me what I was excited for, which was for my dang exalted sorcerors to not all be totally identical.

If any army needed the friggin' "1CP for extra relics no limits" stratagem it's Tsons. Relics and traits is the only way we can differentiate our characters...

i was being sarcastic, the stratagem is "alright" at best. Scarab occults sadly dont have the rubric keyword. Honestly, i wont pass any judgment until i see the whole rules. As it standsm with the cults being detachment-bound, it feels like the codex received the drukhari treatment (lets split the codex in multiple parts for fluff reasons). At least units wont be cult-exclusive (i hope).

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

deTox91 wrote:
I don't know if it's just me but this TS preview looks very disappointing? specially if compared to GK.
No passive bonus of any kind, so most of the army still doesn't have any trait at all,
Time Flux looks decent, but doesn't really have any good target for, maybe just SoT but they are a very underwhelming unit to begin with.
The trait and relic shown are totally MEH, I have a feeling that TS will remain just a Codex Supreme Command detachment still...

the new strat is OP and will totally feth you in half.

IMAGINE taking 20 rubrics with flamers for the low low cost of 480 pts and deploying them in your opponent's face.

thats TONS OF DAMAGE and has LITTERALLY NO COUNTERS.

Except being seized, or marines deploying their "no deepstrike allowed" units or being a super fragile expensive bomb in your opponents face.....

god i hope the sons get more interesting stuff in the rest of the book.

How?

You have to deploy more than 9 inches away and flamers have an 8 inch range. Seems absolutely worthless, I'd rather just have the warp bolters.

I mean imagine doing this with flamers vs Tau?

**Laughs in Tau Pulse Rifle supported by a Cadre*

 Togusa wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

deTox91 wrote:
I don't know if it's just me but this TS preview looks very disappointing? specially if compared to GK.
No passive bonus of any kind, so most of the army still doesn't have any trait at all,
Time Flux looks decent, but doesn't really have any good target for, maybe just SoT but they are a very underwhelming unit to begin with.
The trait and relic shown are totally MEH, I have a feeling that TS will remain just a Codex Supreme Command detachment still...

the new strat is OP and will totally feth you in half.

IMAGINE taking 20 rubrics with flamers for the low low cost of 480 pts and deploying them in your opponent's face.

thats TONS OF DAMAGE and has LITTERALLY NO COUNTERS.

Except being seized, or marines deploying their "no deepstrike allowed" units or being a super fragile expensive bomb in your opponents face.....

god i hope the sons get more interesting stuff in the rest of the book.

How?

You have to deploy more than 9 inches away and flamers have an 8 inch range. Seems absolutely worthless, I'd rather just have the warp bolters.

I mean imagine doing this with flamers vs Tau?

**Laughs in Tau Pulse Rifle supported by a Cadre*

This isn't regular plays by the rules deep strike, they're getting nu-marine bs deployment phase deep strike. So if they have turn 1 they can just walk up and shoot.

WhiteDog wrote:
Morden saying he'll bite while almost every post he make on this forum has some form of whine about DA.... This topic is getting ridiculous.

Oh look a one line post whining about someone posting something - yeah well done Mate- thats constructive and of course yet again completly inaccurate as before someone else was weeping about how super hard done by Dark Angels are (an army I play and collect no less) we were happily discussing Tau, GSC and Deathguard.

But hey - maybe you if you try really hard you will find the ability to post something actually useful, relevant and aboce all accurate......

Actually talking about the topic - so Time Flux works on characters - is it likely that any of the named TS characters will get that Cult keyword.

Tide of Shadows seems very powerful for GK? Anything that gives a -1 tends to be good? Assume it works on vehicles as well?

 Mr Morden wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
Morden saying he'll bite while almost every post he make on this forum has some form of whine about DA.... This topic is getting ridiculous.

Oh look a one line post whining about someone posting something - yeah well done Mate- thats constructive and of course yet again completly inaccurate as before someone else was weeping about how super hard done by Dark Angels are (an army I play and collect no less) we were happily discussing Tau, GSC and Deathguard.

But hey - maybe you if you try really hard you will find the ability to post something actually useful, relevant and aboce all accurate......

Actually talking about the topic - so Time Flux works on characters - is it likely that any of the named TS characters will get that Cult keyword.

Tide of Shadows seems very powerful for GK? Anything that gives a -1 tends to be good? Assume it works on vehicles as well?

If you've figured out a cool trick to make it so that a character loses a model from its unit and then has a model on the battlefield to make it an eligible target for Time Flux, let me in on that.

All my characters are single model units, and so if they die, I can't use Time Flux on them because they're not on the battlefield anymore.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
Morden saying he'll bite while almost every post he make on this forum has some form of whine about DA.... This topic is getting ridiculous.

Oh look a one line post whining about someone posting something - yeah well done Mate- thats constructive and of course yet again completly inaccurate as before someone else was weeping about how super hard done by Dark Angels are (an army I play and collect no less) we were happily discussing Tau, GSC and Deathguard.

But hey - maybe you if you try really hard you will find the ability to post something actually useful, relevant and aboce all accurate......

Actually talking about the topic - so Time Flux works on characters - is it likely that any of the named TS characters will get that Cult keyword.

Tide of Shadows seems very powerful for GK? Anything that gives a -1 tends to be good? Assume it works on vehicles as well?

If you've figured out a cool trick to make it so that a character loses a model from its unit and then has a model on the battlefield to make it an eligible target for Time Flux, let me in on that.

All my characters are single model units, and so if they die, I can't use Time Flux on them because they're not on the battlefield anymore.

Ah yes - stupid of me sorry

 Mr Morden wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
Morden saying he'll bite while almost every post he make on this forum has some form of whine about DA.... This topic is getting ridiculous.

Oh look a one line post whining about someone posting something - yeah well done Mate- thats constructive and of course yet again completly inaccurate as before someone else was weeping about how super hard done by Dark Angels are (an army I play and collect no less) we were happily discussing Tau, GSC and Deathguard.

But hey - maybe you if you try really hard you will find the ability to post something actually useful, relevant and aboce all accurate......

Actually talking about the topic - so Time Flux works on characters - is it likely that any of the named TS characters will get that Cult keyword.

Tide of Shadows seems very powerful for GK? Anything that gives a -1 tends to be good? Assume it works on vehicles as well?

Um... we all just saw this. Let's play nice while we sort it out.

First things first, Detachments are dedicated to Cults. This implies any unit that's part of that detachment is part of that Cult. Maybe there's restrictions for named characters, but it seems like any unit can be part of any Cult.

Second, it says you get access to additional Psychic Powers / WTs / Relics for belonging to a Cult. If this is true, we will be seeing a lot more.

Third, Time Flux won't work on characters. It works on units, all TS characters are single model units. If one dies, it's not a vlid target for a Psychic Power.

I've been playing a Daemon Primarch list that includes Ahriman and 2 Exalted Sorcerers in a Supreme Command Detachment. They're already pretty tough, being able to redeploy them anywhere on the board would be huge. I'd give one the Capricious Crest and shadow Magnus just for the rerolls.

GW saying that Grey Knights might get primaris in the future but that they have no plans to share right now isn't a confirmation that they'll get primaris, it's corporate-speak for keeping their options open while still saying no.

As for the Thousand Sons, well, I guess I'll just have to see what the full cult rules do. The current previews from today seem kinda sparse. Interesting, sure, but it doesn't feel like there's a lot going on, and splitting the content across the 9 cults makes me think that it'll be pretty dilute. We'll be getting "plenty" of rules in aggregate, but you'll really only be able to make use of a fraction of them in reality--much like the CSM bonuses from Faith and Fury, some 85% of which you couldn't use even if you could use the other 15%.

Just from looking at the few rules that they have released, I'm debating between Cult of Time and Cult of Change, since that relic looks pretty sweet and the psychic power doesn't look half bad either. Combine it with Temporal Manipulation and you have both halves of an apothecary. And hey, if you're using it on Terminators you're getting multiple wounds out of the deal. Not that I have any Scarab Occult Terminators in my army/collection.

Let's remember PA2's previews looked pretty poor but when the full rules released Chaos Marines got some pretty strong stuff almost across the board.

So maybe we don't need to jump to conclusions just yet.

But it's a free country, get mad about stuff you haven't seen all you want

More stuff:

Cult of Duplicity are tickling my uninformed fancy.

Nice way to get your Dakka closer for some proper shredding, and of course somewhat helps negate TS’s slow and steady nature.

Perfidious Tome seems like..... not the best use of a relic slot

It’s not perfect, but I guess it’ll depend on just what one can buy for 1CP?

Main drawback as I see it is the compulsory nature. You have to make the roll.

I fething spit on that sorcerous facade power!

Nice effect but they literally cut down it's range by 6" compared to similar powers just so our army trait doesn't benefit us.

I guess it's nice that (hopefully) it can be any unit rather than infantry units.

Well, TS aren’t especially noted for close combat prowess.

Reckon dropping a unit of 10 in rapid fire range could ruin a few days?

Or indeed to seize a previously uncontested objective etc?

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
Perfidious Tome seems like..... not the best use of a relic slot

Hmm I know I would roll lots of 1's :(

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, TS aren’t especially noted for close combat prowess.

Reckon dropping a unit of 10 in rapid fire range could ruin a few days?

Or indeed to seize a previously uncontested objective etc?

Or just be a decent distraction?

Benionin wrote:
GW saying that Grey Knights might get primaris in the future but that they have no plans to share right now isn't a confirmation that they'll get primaris, it's corporate-speak for keeping their options open while still saying no.

Well, it's more that it's a long, long time away I assume. Like five years.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, TS aren’t especially noted for close combat prowess.

Reckon dropping a unit of 10 in rapid fire range could ruin a few days?

Or indeed to seize a previously uncontested objective etc?

Or just be a decent distraction?

Why not all three, situation depending

Heck, if you can redeploy say 20 Tzaangors? That’s a significant pain where it wasn’t previously?

Guess it’ll depend on who and what can actually belong to a Cult?

So the Cults of the Thousand Sons rule doesn't do anything except restrict the availability of the new psychic powers and warlord traits? Fantastic.

I especially like how it effectively limits the availability of the new psychic powers to 1 cast per turn per detachment. Nice of them to do that - wouldn't want Thousand Sons being able to cast too many powers.

But something's still missing. I don't think we've seen anything that randomly blows up your own guys yet. 7 powers left to reveal though...

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
So the Cults of the Thousand Sons rule doesn't do anything except restrict the availability of the new psychic powers and warlord traits? Fantastic.

I especially like how it effectively limits the availability of the new psychic powers to 1 cast per turn per detachment. Nice of them to do that - wouldn't want Thousand Sons being able to cast too many powers.

But something's still missing. I don't think we've seen anything that randomly blows up your own guys yet. 7 powers left to reveal though...

It doesn't restrict access to the existing powers, just powers associated to the other cults.

Were you mad when Fists couldn't use the Ravenguards psychic powers too?

So with Sorcerous Facade you can slingshot a second unit of Brayhorn Tzaangors into the enemy's face turn 1, after you've DMC'd the first one. Not too shabby.

Perfidious Tome looks deceptively good. Most people kill CP generation relics on sight if they can, but the chance for your opponent to gain CP could be just enough bait to let something live. Unless I am mistaken, competitive chaos lists are already taking a supreme command detachment of thousand sons so this ends up just slotting right in with minimal opportunity cost.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
So the Cults of the Thousand Sons rule doesn't do anything except restrict the availability of the new psychic powers and warlord traits? Fantastic.

I especially like how it effectively limits the availability of the new psychic powers to 1 cast per turn per detachment. Nice of them to do that - wouldn't want Thousand Sons being able to cast too many powers.

But something's still missing. I don't think we've seen anything that randomly blows up your own guys yet. 7 powers left to reveal though...

It doesn't restrict access to the existing powers, just powers associated to the other cults.

Were you mad when Fists couldn't use the Ravenguards psychic powers too?

Except that's not even remotely the same thing?
Fists and RG are a Chapter the same as TS, not as a cult, both IF and RG got a 9~ or however many spells each, not 1 per Detachment

deTox91 wrote:

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
So the Cults of the Thousand Sons rule doesn't do anything except restrict the availability of the new psychic powers and warlord traits? Fantastic.

I especially like how it effectively limits the availability of the new psychic powers to 1 cast per turn per detachment. Nice of them to do that - wouldn't want Thousand Sons being able to cast too many powers.

But something's still missing. I don't think we've seen anything that randomly blows up your own guys yet. 7 powers left to reveal though...

It doesn't restrict access to the existing powers, just powers associated to the other cults.

Were you mad when Fists couldn't use the Ravenguards psychic powers too?

Except that's not even remotely the same thing?
Fists and RG are a Chapter the same as TS, not as a cult, both IF and RG got a 9~ or however many spells each, not 1 per Detachment

So in this cool new release that lets you build new things using subfactions of a subfaction you're saying it's bad that the subfaction's subfaction didn't individually get as many rules as other subfactions?

Because basically you're arguing that by not giving the cults the same level of content as the SM Chapters GW is doing you a disservice. That doesn't track as reasonable imo.