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2014/01/20 01:15:00
Subject: 1750 White Scars vs Eldar, Tournament Preparation, VASSAL Pictures
Welcome to another Warhammer 40k battle report in Ricter's series of tournament preparation for the Las Vegas Open! This week, I, General Mawr, will be playing Eldar against Ricter's White Scars with Tau allies. Mission is drawn from Scenario 4 of the LVO and consists of a combination of Crusade and Emperor's Will. The complete report can also be found at http://gamingbythenumbers.com/blog/1750-white-scars-vs-eldar-tournament-preparation-vassal-pictures/.
Troops Dire Avengers x10
-Exarch (Power weapon and Shimmershield)
-Wave Serpent (Holo-fields, TL Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon)
Dire Avengers x10
-Exarch (Power weapon and Shimmershield)
-Wave Serpent (Holo-fields, TL Scatter Laser, Shuriken Cannon)
Ranger x9
Rangers x10
Fast Attack Shining Spears x7
-Exarch (Hit and Run, Star Lance)
Heavy Support Fire Prism (Holo-field, Shuriken Catapult)
Fire Prism (Holo-field, Shuriken Catapult)
Space Marine List:
Spoiler:
HQ Chapter Master (Artificer Armor, Bike, Power Fist, The Shield Eternal)
Librarian (Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, ML2)
Commander (Command and Control Node, Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Vectored Retro-thrusters, Shield Generator)
Troops Bike Squad (2x Grav-gun)
Bike Squad (2x Grav-gun)
Bike Squad (2x Meltagun)
Kroot Carnivore Squad (10 Kroot)
Heavy Support Centurion Devastator Squad (Omniscope, 4x with Grav-cannon, Grav-amp, and Missile Launcher)
Thunderfire Cannon
XV88 Broadside Team (3x with Twin-linked high-yield missile pod and EWO, 5x Missile Drones)
Mission Information:
Spoiler:
Mission is drawn from Scenario 4 of the LVO.
Mission: Crusade (4 pts) and Emperor's Will (3 pts)
Deployment: Dawn of War
Warlord Traits: Eldar (Autarch): Master of Defense
Space Marines (Chapter Master): Immovable Object
Eldar Pre-Game Thoughts
Spoiler:
Having faced Ricter before I know what to expect and there are things in his list that are very hard for TAC lists to handle, namely the Broadside squad and the Centurion squad. These units are hard to take down since they are screened by the Chapter Master, the Librarian, or the Tau Commander. The amount of fire power they put out makes charging them suicide but with the Chapter Master's saves they are very hard to shoot off the board.
That being said I plan to try to ignore the hard to kill units and focus on killing his troops to remove his scoring potential. I am going to try to get my Shining Spears in and charge the Broadside Squad, hopefully before it eats through my Wave Serpents. Ultimately the plan is to kill his troops and keep mine alive and hope to claim objectives late game. The Wraithblades are in the list to test them out. I do not expect them to perform all that well but I don't like not having a decent CC unit.
Space Marine Pre-Game Thoughts
Spoiler:
I’m not quite sure what to expect against this Eldar list, after having played against Deathstars many weeks in a row now. Its power is very much distributed but the combined total firepower seems much more threatening than the Seer Council list. In particular, I notice that there are both AP 2/3 weapons and. more importantly, AP 3 blast weapons, looking to punish any clumping on my part. It also has a unit that I haven’t seen before, the Wraithblades, and even if the unit is not particularly good, I don’t want to fight a bunch of AP 2 attacks in assault.
Looking at the game with my list, I don’t really feel I have any pieces missing. I have plenty of grav/melta/bikes to take care of the Eldar skimmers, and the Centurions or Broadsides should put nice holes in any of his tougher units, like the Wraithblades or Shining Spears. However, I don’t expect my Thunderfire Cannon to do much this game – I’ll probably wreck the Wave Serpents, not explode them, and none of the Infantry are particularly vulnerable to the Thunderfire Cannon anyways, as they all with either be in cover or have better armor saves than my AP.
I botch the objective deployment pretty bad, putting one of the objective markers on the wrong side of the wall (closer to my opponent instead of me) because I got confused about which deployment zone I was in. Considering how important objectives are, this is something I need to make sure I handle correctly in the future. I also note that there’s really not a good spot for the Emperor’s Will objective in my deployment zone, so I just kind of throw it out there and hope it won’t matter. I do get Immovable Object for my Warlord trait and Hallucination on my Librarian, which seems promising.
Deployment just feels bad. Because of the terrain and Fire Prisms, I have to divide my units up in a way I don’t really like. Since the Eldar have first turn and there is no Night-fighting, I won’t have a cover save either. I consider clumping in the ruins anyways, because the Eldar would only really have one Fire Prism in LoS that would (hopefully) cause minimal damage. Instead, I spread out my units, putting my high-threats in the middle, a little spread out in hopes that the Eldar will shoot at them and bounce off the tanking characters. This also puts me in a very, very powerful seize position, as I can probably down both of the Eldar Fire Prisms on the first turn.
Deployment:
Spoiler:
Eldar T1:
Spoiler:
Eldar pushes towards the SM flanks and targets the more vulnerable troops. Wraithblades' Wave Serpent fires its twin-linked scatter laser, shuriken cannon, and serpent shield at the Kroot killing five. Right Fire Prism fires a dispersed blast at the Black Bike Squad killing three. Left Fire Prism fires a dispersed blast at the Green Bike Squad but the shot scatters missing the squad. Both Ranger squads fire at the Green Bike Squad managing to kill two. The Kroot and the two Bike Squads pass their moral checks.
Space Marine T1:
Spoiler:
Broadside Squad remains stationary and wreck the right Fire Prism with their high-yield missile pods. Black and Teal Bike squads maneuver towards the right flank. Thunderfire Cannon attempts to fire indirectly at the Teal Ranger Squad but scatters killing a member of the Green Bike Squad. Although they are down a man the Green Bike Squad shoot their grav guns at the Fire Prism but do not manage to cause any damage; they are able to cause a glancing hit with their krak grenades on the charge. Centurion Squad move up.
Eldar T2:
Spoiler:
I forgot to take a screen shot after the Eldar turn; the following screen shot includes the Eldar turn and the Space Marine movement.
The Shining Spear Squad come in from reserves, outflanking on the right side of the board. The Broadside Squad intercepts them killing two. The Shining Spear Squad try to take out the Thunderfire Cannon before it finishes off the Teal Ranger Squad but to no avail. The Wraithblade's Wave Serpent fires its twin-linked scatter laser, shuriken cannon, and serpent shield at the Kroot finishing off the squad. Teal Rangers and Green Dire Avenger's Wave Serpent finish off the Green Bike Squad. Remaining Fire Prism fires a dispersed blast at the Broadside Squad and manages to clip a member of the Black Bike Squad. The Broadside Squad sustain no damage but the Black Biker is not so lucky. The remaining member of his squad flees off the board. Green Ranger Squad fires on the Centurion Squad but cause no wounds.
Space Marine T2:
Spoiler:
Teal Bike Squad moves in on the remaining Fire Prism and use their grav guns and krak grenades to wreck it. Thunderfire Cannon devoid of targets that don't risk scattering onto his allies fires on the Shining Spear Squad causing no casualties. Centurions charge the exposed members of the Teal Ranger Squad killing three; the remaining Rangers flee.
Eldar T3:
Spoiler:
The Green Dire Avenger's and the Wraithblades' Wave Serpent move in and fire on the Teal Bike Squad killing three. Shining Spear Squad charges the Thunderfire Cannon and the Exarch kills the Tech Marine manning it with his Star Lance. Teal Ranger Squad regroups and both them and the Green Ranger Squad fires at the Centurions but fail to cause any wounds.
Space Marine T3:
Spoiler:
Teal Bike Squad immobilizes the Wave Green Dire Avengers' Wave Serpent with their grav guns but are unable to wreck it in assualt. The Centurion squad shoots at the Green Ranger squad and then multi-assualts the both Ranger Squads. Both squadas fail their leadership. The Green Ranger Squad fails their moral check and flees off the board. The Teal Ranger squad only falls back. Broadside squad kills most of the remaining Shining Spear Squad.
Eldar T4:
Spoiler:
Both the Green Dire Avengers' and Wraithblades' Wave Serpent fire at the Broadside Squad killing one Broadside and wounding the Tau commander. Green Dire Avenger Squad disembarks from their immobilized transport and fires at the Teal Bike Squad killing one. Autarch and Shining Spear Exarch charge the Broadside Squad and are obliterated by their massed fire. Teal Ranger Squad fails to regroup and flees off the board.
Space Marine T4:
Spoiler:
Remaining Teal biker uses his grav gun to wreck the Green Dire Avengers' Wave Serpent. Chapter Master splits from the Centurion Squad and charges the Green Dire Avenger Squad, killing three. The Chapter Master is unable to overrun them as they flee. Broadside Squad wrecks the Wraithblades Wave Serpent. As the Wraithbladess disembark three are gunned down by the Centurions.
Eldar T5:
Spoiler:
Green Dire Avenger Squad continues to flee before the mighty Chapter Master. Teal Dire Avenger Squad exits their Wave Serpent and claim one of the objectives. Meanwhile their Wave Serpent fires all its weapons at the Broadside Squad killing two drones and a Broadside. Wraithblade's cannot assault the Broadside Squad this turn so they move around the Wave Serpent to get cover from the Centurion Squad.
Space Marine T5:
Spoiler:
Chapter Master and Teal Biker claim a Crusade and an Emperor's Will objective, respectively. Centurion Squad blasts the Green Dire Avenger Squad off the map. Broadside Squad kills off the remaining Wraithblades. Game ends.
Final Score:
Spoiler:
Eldar: 4
Space Marines: 10
Eldar Post-Game Thoughts:
Spoiler:
This game went pretty much as I expected. I was able to kill Ricter's troops fairly easily, partly due to his aggressive deployment, but was not really able to dent his tougher squads. The Wraithblades proved about as useful as I expected; playing Orks most of the time has made me take for granted how nice it is to have open-topped assault vehicles.
I forgot that his Warlord was scoring; if he hadn't been and if I could have managed to kill that last Teal Biker I may have won. That is a lot of ifs. If Ricter's warlord had not been scoring I think he would have been more conservative with his troops. I was very happy with the performance of the Fire Prisms but wish there was a way for them to ignore cover.
Space Marine Post-Game Thoughts:
Spoiler:
Well, that was a lot messier than I had hoped. The Eldar basically played my normal tactic – use LoS and range to avoid fighting many units out of the opposing army. Unfortunately for the Eldar, that only works for so long, and they didn’t have the units left to handle my Broadsides and Centurions by the time they tried to kill them.
Space Marine List Thoughts The Chapter Master performed well enough. Since the Eldar basically ignored my tougher units in the beginning, he did a lot less tanking than he normally does. Still, he basically mulched a Dire Avenger unit on his own and was scoring. The Tau Commander was clutch, as always. Realistically, he was basically just there to give Ignores Cover to the Broadsides and Twin-Linked to the Drones, but this made a huge difference against the Fire Prisms / Wave Serpents and their cover saves. The Librarian… still not very useful. I’m just not seeing Telepathy as being that good. I even got one of the star powers this game, but between range, LoS, and lack of targets it never really did anything. Basically, by the time he got in range of a unit, it was already in range of the Centurions and Chapter Master, which meant the unit was already dead or at least not a threat.
My bikes got beat up pretty bad because of my poor deployment and awful cover saves, but still managed to hang in there (barely). The poor Kroot got butchered. I was thinking about Outflanking them, and I really should have. By the time the Eldar went after them I didn’t have any units I could support them with, and I ended up just throwing them away.
The Thunderfire Cannon… well, I’m pretty sure it managed to kill more points of my guys than my opponent’s. The one turn it had a good target it got a pretty awful scatter, and the rest of the game it spent missing or only causing a few wounds that were saved anyways. The Broadsides, however, were rock solid as usual, bringing down several Eldar Skimmers and basically wiping the entire Shining Spears unit with Autarch single-handedly. The Centurions spent most of the game trying to chase after the cowardly Eldar (I really wish I could afford faster movement for them), but still managed to kill two Ranger squads, a skimmer and most of the Wraithblades.
Eldar List Thoughts The Wraithblades seemed pretty useless, which is basically the case for any assault unit that doesn’t get an open-topped or assault transport. The Shining Spears, while only killing the Thunderfire cannon, did take two full turns of Broadside firing to bring down, letting the Wave Serpents survive that much longer. The Rangers did a surprising amount of damage, between always wounding on a 4+ and Rending. The Wave Serpents and Dire Avengers I have seen before, and performed pretty much as I expected.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/23 18:11:01
2014/01/20 11:00:12
Subject: 1750 White Scars vs Eldar, Tournament Preparation, VASSAL Pictures
2) Your TFC has been as effective as mine, I always scatter far away. This leads to point 3.
3) I feel that ML1 libby is useless when he does not have access to Divination. Prescience is just too good. It might also help with bad scatters. Thus with WS and Tau I intend to use Coteaz. Unfortunately as a tournament player you won't have that luxury.
4) How do you prevent Cents not being focus fired? I did not realize how stupid those rules are. We always assumed that as you can choose what save to use we could also choose not to jink or take cover save. E.g. It makes no sense to take 4+ cover against AP3 shots when you have 2+ armor or 3+ invu available.
2014/01/22 18:36:44
Subject: 1750 White Scars vs Eldar, Tournament Preparation, VASSAL Pictures
The white scars list is great (No khan )
But the Eldar list i would recomend some serious changes. Post in army lists if you want help, if not then dont. But there are some tips that i think you need to here.
I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine.
2014/01/22 20:52:48
Subject: 1750 White Scars vs Eldar, Tournament Preparation, VASSAL Pictures
Naw wrote: 1) Never used Orbital bombardment in two games?
2) Your TFC has been as effective as mine, I always scatter far away. This leads to point 3.
3) I feel that ML1 libby is useless when he does not have access to Divination. Prescience is just too good. It might also help with bad scatters. Thus with WS and Tau I intend to use Coteaz. Unfortunately as a tournament player you won't have that luxury.
4) How do you prevent Cents not being focus fired? I did not realize how stupid those rules are. We always assumed that as you can choose what save to use we could also choose not to jink or take cover save. E.g. It makes no sense to take 4+ cover against AP3 shots when you have 2+ armor or 3+ invu available.
Where does it say you MUST take cover saves instead of an invulnerable or armor if they are better? I have to admit I am confused by that statement. Reading the rulebook it states that you get to choose the most beneficial save.
2014/01/22 23:23:13
Subject: 1750 White Scars vs Eldar, Tournament Preparation, VASSAL Pictures
I think the libby didn't have any real hallucination targets this game. The shining spears are out of range most of the game at the start of the libby's turn and the wave serpents are essentially immune to it. By the time you get a chance on the wraith blades or avengers, your already deep in his lines and killing him. For what he can convey to units as a force multiper though, maybe drop the terminator armor and use him to convey cheap hit and run and ATSKNF. Not sure man. Like I've said before, I've had lots of success using the right powers off telepathy with a cheap, ML2 bike librarian (particularly invisibility and puppet master). Good luck at the LVO. I like your list and how its developed.
2014/01/23 12:34:39
Subject: 1750 White Scars vs Eldar, Tournament Preparation, VASSAL Pictures
Naw wrote: 1) Never used Orbital bombardment in two games?
2) Your TFC has been as effective as mine, I always scatter far away. This leads to point 3.
3) I feel that ML1 libby is useless when he does not have access to Divination. Prescience is just too good. It might also help with bad scatters. Thus with WS and Tau I intend to use Coteaz. Unfortunately as a tournament player you won't have that luxury.
4) How do you prevent Cents not being focus fired? I did not realize how stupid those rules are. We always assumed that as you can choose what save to use we could also choose not to jink or take cover save. E.g. It makes no sense to take 4+ cover against AP3 shots when you have 2+ armor or 3+ invu available.
Where does it say you MUST take cover saves instead of an invulnerable or armor if they are better? I have to admit I am confused by that statement. Reading the rulebook it states that you get to choose the most beneficial save.
I was told that as the CM has a jink save, the Centurions can be Focused. To me it makes no sense to even take a cover save with anything as they all got 2+ armor save.
2014/01/23 13:30:31
Subject: 1750 White Scars vs Eldar, Tournament Preparation, VASSAL Pictures
Naw wrote: 1) Never used Orbital bombardment in two games?
2) Your TFC has been as effective as mine, I always scatter far away. This leads to point 3.
3) I feel that ML1 libby is useless when he does not have access to Divination. Prescience is just too good. It might also help with bad scatters. Thus with WS and Tau I intend to use Coteaz. Unfortunately as a tournament player you won't have that luxury.
4) How do you prevent Cents not being focus fired? I did not realize how stupid those rules are. We always assumed that as you can choose what save to use we could also choose not to jink or take cover save. E.g. It makes no sense to take 4+ cover against AP3 shots when you have 2+ armor or 3+ invu available.
Where does it say you MUST take cover saves instead of an invulnerable or armor if they are better? I have to admit I am confused by that statement. Reading the rulebook it states that you get to choose the most beneficial save.
I was told that as the CM has a jink save, the Centurions can be Focused. To me it makes no sense to even take a cover save with anything as they all got 2+ armor save.
You can focus fire on the centurions. It doesn't force you to take a cover save though. It lets you allocate wounds directly to the centurions by making the chapter master an ineligible target, thus allowing you to prevent him from tanking high strength, low AP wounds on the 3++ and EW.
2014/01/23 16:22:48
Subject: Re:1750 White Scars vs Eldar, Tournament Preparation, VASSAL Pictures
Naw wrote:1) Never used Orbital bombardment in two games?
2) Your TFC has been as effective as mine, I always scatter far away. This leads to point 3.
3) I feel that ML1 libby is useless when he does not have access to Divination. Prescience is just too good. It might also help with bad scatters. Thus with WS and Tau I intend to use Coteaz. Unfortunately as a tournament player you won't have that luxury.
4) How do you prevent Cents not being focus fired? I did not realize how stupid those rules are. We always assumed that as you can choose what save to use we could also choose not to jink or take cover save. E.g. It makes no sense to take 4+ cover against AP3 shots when you have 2+ armor or 3+ invu available.
I used it this game. It scattered and missed completely, I rerolled, it scattered and missed completely again.
In the previous report, I used the Orbital Bombardment to paste a key Warlock out of the Seer Council (look back and you'll see one Warlock dies on T1 in a position I otherwise couldn't hit).
He's ML2, but still of dubious worth. I would love to have Coteaz and do so in games that allow it, but the tournaments that I am planning on attending do not, so I am out of luck there.
I generally don't care about the Cents being Focus Fired. I either don't move the CM, have the Cents in cover, or can swap the Librarian/Tau Commander into the unit to tank instead. So yes, Focus Fire is technically possible - but I have the tools to prevent it.
ninjafiredragon wrote:The white scars list is great (No khan )
But the Eldar list i would recomend some serious changes. Post in army lists if you want help, if not then dont. But there are some tips that i think you need to here.
I'm really torn on Khan. On the one hand, lots of Scout is awesome against defensive armies. On the other hand, he must be the Warlord, brings one of the worst Warlord traits in the game, gives up Slay the Warlord much easier than the Chapter Master, and is generally dead weight against aggressive armies.
PanzerLeader wrote:Ricter,
I think the libby didn't have any real hallucination targets this game. The shining spears are out of range most of the game at the start of the libby's turn and the wave serpents are essentially immune to it. By the time you get a chance on the wraith blades or avengers, your already deep in his lines and killing him. For what he can convey to units as a force multiper though, maybe drop the terminator armor and use him to convey cheap hit and run and ATSKNF. Not sure man. Like I've said before, I've had lots of success using the right powers off telepathy with a cheap, ML2 bike librarian (particularly invisibility and puppet master). Good luck at the LVO. I like your list and how its developed.
No, he really didn't, but admittedly part of that was due to deployment. Mech Eldar makes it rough for him to have a good target on top of that. Unfortunately, he needs the Terminator armor to get the Storm Shield, otherwise I would drop it. Cheap hit and run is nice, but if I'm going to take him, I want him to also act as the tank. At this point, I'm thinking of cutting him and the TFC, going Tau primary, and getting another Tau troop with another Commander.
)
