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1750 LVO Practice - The NEW Hive Fleet Pandora vs Imperial Guards (Completed)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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How do the new Tyranids compare to the Imperial Guards?
Tyranids can compete. They take down Guards.
Draw. Threats on both sides are neutralized, no one gets the Relic and objectives are tied.
IG is still the stronger army. They win thanks to the high amount of AP2 firepower in their army.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Had a practice game for the Las Vegas Open (LVO) GT. My opponent for the game, Bill (aka Panzer1944 here on dakka), is also going to the LVO and is testing out this IG build. This will actually be the 2nd time we have played. In our very first meeting, he brought a 6-vendetta IG Air Cavalry list against my Herald-hammer Daemons:

1850 Herald-Hammer Daemons vs IG Air Cavalry

This time around, he is bringing a much more balanced list and therefore, IMO a much better list.



1750 New Tyranids vs Imperial Guards


1750 Imperial Guards




BTW, Bill's army was very nicely painted by Frontline Gaming. I especially liked all the tanks and flyers, which were painted exquisitely and with very nice weathering effects.


Company Command Squad - Astropath, Master of Ordnance, Plasma Pistol, Chimera

Platoon Command Squad - 3x Snipers
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad

Platoon Command Squad - 2x Plasmas, Al'Rahem
Infantry Squad - Flamer
Infantry Squad - Flamer
Special Weapons Squad - 3x Plasmas

Veteran Squad - 1x Plasma
Veteran Squad - 1x Plasma

Vendetta
Vendetta

Leman Russ Executioner - Lascannon
Leman Russ Executioner - Lascannon
Leman Russ Vanquisher - Lascannon, Commander Pask



1750 Hive Fleet Pandora


This list is very similar to my previous one found in this battle report:

1750 LVO Practice - NEW Hive Fleet Pandora vs White Scars + Space Wolves

However, I just swapped out the exocrine and 1 unit of gants for a mawloc and some gargoyles.


Flyrant - Wings, 2xTL-Brainleech Devourers
Flyrant - Wings, 2xTL-Brainleech Devourers

1x Venomthrope
1x Zoanthrope

Tervigon
30x Termagants

15x Gargoyles

3x Biovores
3x Dakkafexes
Mawloc

Bastion


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Bay Area Open

Primary - Big Guns Never Tire - 4x Objectives, 4-pts

Secondary - The Relic, 3-pts

Bonuses - First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each


Deployment: Hammer & Anvil


Initiative: Tyranids


-------------------------------------------------------------------


PRE-GAME THOUGHTS:

Tyranids:
Last time I went up against Bill, he brought 6 vendettas with him so going into the game, I really wasn't sure what to expect. If he had brought his 6 vendettas list into this game, I may be in trouble. I just don't have enough AA to take on so many vendettas. Fortunately for me, he didn't.

My opponent has got a lot of weapons to deal with a monster-heavy Tyranid army like mine. He's got:

1 S8 AP2 vanquisher shot
3 rending sniper shots
6 S7 AP2 blasts
9 S9 AP2 lascannon shots (with 6 being twin-linked)
15 S7 AP2 plasma shots

If not for the venomthrope's shrouded cover, I'd actually be very concerned about his army.

I've only got 2+ scoring units, plus 3 scoring Heavy Supports for Big Guns. Bill out-numbers me with 10 scoring units, plus 3 AV14 tanks for Big Guns and he is going 2nd in an objectives-game.

Finally, I made 2 crucial mistakes in this game, which I will explain below.


So to sum up, this game actually turned out to be much harder than I expected because of various reasons:

1. IG with 13 scoring units and Tyranids only 5+ scoring units.

2. IG is going 2nd.

3. Hammer & Anvil deployment.

4. Once again, I failed to get Catalyst in this game.

5. I make a very silly mistake on Turn 1 - I aggressively advanced 1 flyrant into Bill's army unsupported, all for the sake of trying out Psychic Scream.

6. I rolled for my Mawloc to see if he came in on Turn 2....and then forget about him until Turn 4.


So now with this new info, do you still think Tyranids have a chance in this battle?


Imperial Guards:
I didn’t know what Jim would be throwing down so I tried to make a pretty balance list in my case. (Usually I tend to spam in one direction or the other.) So seeing him pulling out his nid’s and seeing his list I felt pretty good about mine. (Last game as soon as I saw it was a fast demon list I could see my defeat before I put a model on the board.) I knew his biovores where going to wreck havoc on my guard if I move them in the open, so they would just have to dig in for a few turns.

I love have Al’Rahem since it allows me to get guardsmen instantly into my opponent zone and forcing them to deal with them one way or another. Having four extra scouring units in his zone, plus the possibility of killing synapse creatures, should force the nid’s synapse bubble to shrink in the late rounds.

His warlord getting outflank but a damper on my plan of having my vendettas shoot him out of the sky as he comes across the board since now it would most likely fly into my deployment zone from reserves and my flyers would have to come in hovering to deal with him just to open themselves up to his Carnifexes to glance them to death out of the sky, but at the same time with so many guardsmen squads on the field I felt I had plenty of opportunities each turn to ground him and let my tanks finish him off.

I had a solid strategy in my mind and thanks to my astropath and my warlord trait of re-rolling my reserves I knew I would be at full force in turn 2 and forcing him to keep in cover or else get shot off the board trying to advance against my tanks.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Spoiler:
Warlord Traits:

Flyrant - Outflank

CCS - Re-roll reserves


Psychic Powers:

Flyrant - Warp Blast, The Horror (Warlord)

Flyrant - Dominion, Psychic Scream

Tervigon - Warp Blast

Zoanthrope - Dominion


It is Night-fight.


Tyranid deployment. I place the bastion slightly forwards and outside of my deployment zone.


Another perspective of my deployment. Every unit is within 6" of the venomthrope.

Mawloc will be deepstriking as per his special rules, and my Warlord will be out-flanking.


IG deployment. Al 'Rahim's unit will be out-flanking.


Overview of our deployment.

My opponent doesn't try to seize. Smart of him not to.




-------------------------------------------------------------------


Tyranids 1

Spoiler:

So I decide to do a little experimenting with Psychic Scream. I send my flyrant all the way up there by himself against Bill's entire army (or at least the half that is deployed).

So let's see if this is a brilliant move of a mad genius or a WTF-were-you-thinking-you-idjut move.


The rest of my army shuffles around. Biovores get away from the edges in case Al'rahem comes in from there. I really do not want to eat a piece of his FRF!SRF!+plasma pie.


Biovores drop pie plates on the guardsmen. Flyrant cast Psychic Scream and shoots at them as well. Both units go-to-ground. The back unit also denies the flyrant's Psychic Scream. In total, only 5 guardsmen from the front squad dies.




Imperial Guards 1

Spoiler:

Tanks shuffle around so that if my flyrant lives, it won't be auto-hitting them.


See, I told you....it was a brilliant move! The move with my flyrant was designed to give my opponent First Blood and to handicap myself so that I could play from behind.




Tyranids 2

Spoiler:

My Warlord comes in. I outflank him to the very edge so that if his vendettas come in, they would have to go into Hovering mode if they want to target my Warlord.

The Mawloc would not come in this turn. I then forget about him until Turn 4.


Bugs continue to advance. I lose 4 gargoyles to dangerous terrain.


For some reason, I am obsessed with trying to kill his guardsmen. Biovores fire at them again. Once again, they go-to-ground and lose 3 from the rear squad.

My Warlord than blasts Pask's Vanquisher. He fails to deny.....but then I roll a to not even glance his tank!

BTW, so that it doesn't come as a shock to the readers, you are going to see a lot of in this game.


On the bright side, his rear unit fails their morale and falls back.


Gargoyles make the charge through difficult terrain and finish off his front infantry squad.




Imperial Guards 2

Spoiler:

I catch a huge break here. Despite his Astropath allowing him to re-roll his out-flanking, Al 'Rahem and his men still come on in on the wrong side.


Vendettas decide to ignore my flyrant.


Tanks shuffle around.

His CCS issues the Get Back Into the Fight! order to rally his fleeing men.


Now I know why my opponent ignored my flyrant. His vanquisher takes a shot at my bastion with its bastion breacher shell and levels it, killing my venomthrope inside as the building collapses.

Now he's got 2 plasmacutioners and 2 vendettas aimed at my dakkafexes with only 5+ cover instead of the 3+ cover they would have gotten with the venomthrope in the bastion. Very good play by my opponent!


His Master of Ordnance then fires his S9 barrage at my biovores out in the open. Gulp!

Fortunately for me, it scatters and kills 3 gants instead.


I dodged another huge bullet here.

6 plasma cannons, 6 twin-linked lascannons and 2 lascannons aim for my carnifexes. I only end up losing 1 carnifex and 1 gargoyle (to a scatter).


Al 'Rahem orders the Shoot-&-Run command to 2 of his units. 1 plasma gunner dies to heat exhaustion while firing his weapon.


5 plasma shots only result in 1W on my biovores.


This turn could have turned out much, much worse for me. While my opponent did get lucky with a 1-shot kill against my bastion, I caught 2 huge breaks this turn to still be in the game. Now time to press my momentum.




Tyranids 3

Spoiler:

Bugs continue to advance.


The large block of 30 gants go after the guardsmen.


Tervigon spawns 13 gants without rolling doubles. They go after the Relic.


Gargoyles go after more guardsmen.


Flyrant continues to swoop.


He vector-strikes the CCS's chimera and immobilizes it.

I then follow that up with a Warp Lance to the rear of the plasmacutioner....and then roll a to hit.


Dakkafexes fire at a vendetta. Needing 6's to hit and 6's to glance, they manage to cause 2 glances.


Tervigon and gants then run forwards.


Gants take out 3 guardsmen from Al 'Rahem's command squad as well as put 1W on Rahem himself.


Biovores do a lot of damage. They kill 7 from 1 unit and 5 from the other and cause both units to go-to-ground.

If there was anything working for me this game, it was the biovores. They were on target almost all game!


Lastly, the gargoyles shoot down 2....


....and then charge in. Despite the fact that they outnumber the guardsmen with their number of attacks, gargoyles only end up killing 1 guardsman and they stay locked in combat.




Imperial Guards 3

Spoiler:

The guardsmen advance.


The vendettas go into Hovering mode and pull back.


My carnifexes are invincible. He fires at them for another round with both plasmacutioners and vendettas and only manages to kill another 1 carnifex and 3 termagants.

Wow! With just 5+ cover, my fexes have survived 12 plasma cannon blasts, 12 twin-linked lascannon shots, 5 lascannon shots and 1 vanquisher shot!


Plasmas put from his special weapons squad put another 1W on my biovores.

Al 'Rahem's unit takes out 2 gants.


The slapfight results in 1 dead on each side.

Just a word of note - my opponent has been firing at my Warlord each turn with his CCS, his PCS and 1 infantry unit each turn but just hasn't been able to ground him.




Tyranids 4

Spoiler:

I finally remember about the mawloc. I put him in terrain on top of the infantry squad, but he scatters out completely.


This time, I am making sure I kill his tank. My Warlord goes into glide mode and prepares to assault.


Tervigon moves and spawns 11 gants before going sterile.


Carnifex advance. Gants go to grab the Relic.

Notice how I put all my gants in the front and the Relic-holder in the back? This is so he (the Relic-holder) would have a lot of ablative wounds against IG shooting.


Movement in my backfield.


Finally, my flyrant hits the plasmacutioner with Warp Lance....only to roll a to just glance it.

F*ck it. I'll kill it in assault.


Dakkafex fires at the vendetta and glances it to death.

Gants run and spread out.


Biovores kill another 2 guardsmen and force both units to go-to-ground once again.


Gants shoot down 1 guardsman only.


My gants then assault....


....and wipe out the guardsmen.


Once again, guardsmen pass morale here after losing combat.


And for the coup de grace, my flyrant charges in. He smashes....and proceeds to roll 1, 2, 2 to miss entirely.




Imperial Guards 4

Spoiler:

Vendetta flies forwards and goes after my biovores.


Tanks shuffle around.


1 unit of 3 survivors make their way towards my objective with movement and then running.


Vendetta only hits and wounds twice. I make 1 cover save and lose only 1 biovore.


Combined shooting by his backfield units put 3W on my grounded flyrant. HE LIVES!!!


Finally, the plasmacutioners fire at the dakkafex. They put another 1W on him as well as take out 5 and 2 gants from 2 different units.


What the heck?!? His lone sergeant actually wins combat by 1 and cause my gargoyles to flee!





Tyranids 5

Spoiler:
Ok, this could potentially be the last Game turn.


I decide that I want to keep my Warlord alive. So rather than to try to assault his tank once again, I swoop with my flyrant....


....and vector-strikes his sergeant on the objective dead.


Gants take the objective back. Dakkafex goes after the plasmacutioner. Newly produced gants move towards an objective.


Tyranid movement.


Biovores fire at his guardsmen sneaking up on my objective. They kill 1 and then pin the unit!


We then go on to assault.


1 tank down.


Another one bites the dust.

I also get +1 VP for killing a Heavy Support choice for the Primary mission (Big Guns).




Imperial Guards 5

Spoiler:
My opponent is currently in a bad spot. I've got both the Primary (Big Guns) as well as the Secondary (Relic). So can he do anything about it?


Vendetta goes into Hovering mode and drops off the veterans. They will attempt to blow away my unit of 5 gants with the Relic.


Plasmacutioner makes it onto his objective. If he can blow away 2 contesting gargoyles, then he will have that objective (my flyrant was very close to contesting so we 4+ it....it turned out that he was just out).


Guardsmen huff it, but they won't be a factor this game. The only unit that mattered is currently pinned.


Vendetta takes out 2 biovores!

That is +1 VP for my opponent for taking out 1 of my Heavy Supports.


Vanquisher and I believe the snipers take out my dakkafex!

That is +2 VP's for my opponent for taking out 2 of my Heavy Supports.


Infantry squad shoots and takes out 3 gants (after FRF!SRF! from the PCS unit)....just enough to take them out of claiming range of that objective.


So far, my opponent has done everything he needed to do in order to win the Primary. However, there is still 1 more thing that he needs to do.



Now for a very important attack by my opponent. This could be a game-winner here if he manages to pull it off. He needs to kill off 2 gargoyles with his plasmacutioner in order to kick them out of contesting range. He fires 3 plasma cannon shots and 1 lascannon shot....and only manages to kill 1 gargoyle!!!

I feel bad for my opponent so I will do a for him. But deep down, I was doing my happy dance.


Finally, he tries to deny me the Relic. So I am looking at 17 lasgun (+ 1 pistol) shots and 2 plasma shots. He fires with BS4 veterans....and only manages to kill 3! Woohoo! I secure the Relic!!!

In a last ditch effort, his Master of Ordnance orders an orbital bombardment on the gants holding my only Big Gun objective but it scatters way off.


We then roll to see if the game ends and the result is a . Game over.


-------------------------------------------------------------------



I've got 1 Big Gun objective.


The other one is contested so I take the Primary 4-2.


I also take the Secondary, which is the Relic.

My opponent has First Blood (my flyrant). Neither of us killed each other's Warlords and both of us get Linebreaker (guardsmen from Al 'Rahem's platoon, my mawloc, Warlord and gargoyles).


Tyranids take this matchup 8-2.






Crushing Victory for Hive Fleet Pandora!!!






This message was edited 14 times. Last update was at 2014/01/26 08:04:44



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Foolproof Falcon Pilot





That is a very soft IG list, should be interesting how thinfs end up though. I always thought al'rahem was cool; tallarn are my favorite regiment!!

Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!

My gaming blog regarding Eldar and soon to be CSM:Thousand Sons: http://yriel.blogspot.com/

My WIP Tyranid Fandex:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576691.page#6486415 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Eye of Terror

Hammer and Anvil again?

Should be very interesting!

My blog... http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com

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DT:60+S++++G++++M+++B+++I+++Pw40k89/d#++D+++A++++/eWD150R++++T(T)DM+++ 
   
Made in us
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






IG with no artillery and he didn't maximize special weapons in the right areas. Snipers lol.

I also noticed that the BAO format is carrying your list a tad. By having multiple overlapping missions it basically doubles your scoring slots in every match. I fully understand this is practice for you, just wanted to point that out to others looking for list ideas as I think normally your list lacks troops desperately but for this format your good to go.

BTW LVO allows FW so he should bring the vanquisher with monster killer rounds and a coaxial stubber for twin linking lol. Can pop a MC a turn. If he's going anyway

   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






Folkestone, UK

Monster Killer rounds? I am intrigued, Where can I find these luvlies?

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 mortetvie wrote:
That is a very soft IG list, should be interesting how thinfs end up though. I always thought al'rahem was cool; tallarn are my favorite regiment!!

Bill is more of a casual player than a super-optimized, competitive one.....but all those AV14 tanks may prove problematic.


 Dozer Blades wrote:
Hammer and Anvil again?

Should be very interesting!

Thanks goodness his shooting isn't quite as nasty as Tau!


 Red Corsair wrote:
IG with no artillery and he didn't maximize special weapons in the right areas. Snipers lol.

I also noticed that the BAO format is carrying your list a tad. By having multiple overlapping missions it basically doubles your scoring slots in every match. I fully understand this is practice for you, just wanted to point that out to others looking for list ideas as I think normally your list lacks troops desperately but for this format your good to go.

BTW LVO allows FW so he should bring the vanquisher with monster killer rounds and a coaxial stubber for twin linking lol. Can pop a MC a turn. If he's going anyway

BTW, his vanquisher does have the Bastion-breacher shells and he doesn't have the FW books.

I'm actually not bringing my Tyranids to the LVO. I'm just playtesting them.

I don't see how the BAO format specifically helps to carry my list. Each scoring unit can only take 1 objective. If anything, it helps the army with the most scoring units. In that case, it should help Bill's army more than mine, especially with a horde of infantry and 3 AV14 tanks that are scoring.



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
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California

I'm actually not bringing my Tyranids to the LVO. I'm just playtesting them.

I don't see how the BAO format specifically helps to carry my list. Each scoring unit can only take 1 objective. If anything, it helps the army with the most scoring units. In that case, it should help Bill's army more than mine, especially with a horde of infantry and 3 AV14 tanks that are scoring.


Can't say I'm not suprised, but I was looking forward to if you were bringing them to see how they would do. I believe my guesses are that you would play either daemons or chaos. I'd be shocked if it wasn't one of the two but maybe you've been playtesting your eldar behind closed doors (I think I remember you stating you had some in a thread a ways back) Whatever choice I'll be looking forward to the battle reports that will ensue.

2500pts 2000 
   
Made in us
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






 LeadLegion wrote:
Monster Killer rounds? I am intrigued, Where can I find these luvlies?


Its a imperial armor vanquisher variant. Basically it has a heavy stubber also in the turret that if it hits a target twin links the main gun due to its tracer rounds. Then it has shells that cause instant death to monstrous creatures. Pretty awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jy2 wrote:
 mortetvie wrote:


I don't see how the BAO format specifically helps to carry my list. Each scoring unit can only take 1 objective. If anything, it helps the army with the most scoring units. In that case, it should help Bill's army more than mine, especially with a horde of infantry and 3 AV14 tanks that are scoring.



Having more scoring units is always an advantage no doubt. But playing out for example big guns and emperors will effectively jumps your list from having 2 scoring units to now having 5. I know they don't all score the same objectives but it definitely makes list building much more flexible when all the missions are layered like this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/24 19:42:08


   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Total domination by the Tyranids. It's definitely an unusual IG army and there's a lot of Tyranids in the Guard deployment zone by turn 4

Definitely interested to hear your thoughts on the Mawloc and Gargoyles.
   
Made in us
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Tucson, Arizona

I am also wondering how well the mawloc is going to do. I have high hopes for it as I think it can be pretty brutal for as cheap as it is. I personally am getting a Tyranid army and plan on running two of them. I do have a question though can both the venomthrope and the zoanthrope go into the Bastion together? I don't think they can as they follow all the same rules for embarking and disembarking with the transport capacity of 30. I also predict a Tyranid massacre.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

PRE-GAME THOUGHTS:

Tyranids:
Last time I went up against Bill, he brought 6 vendettas with him so going into the game, I really wasn't sure what to expect. If he had brought his 6 vendettas list into this game, I may be in trouble. I just don't have enough AA to take on so many vendettas. Fortunately for me, he didn't.

My opponent has got a lot of weapons to deal with a monster-heavy Tyranid army like me. He's got:

1 S8 AP2 vanquisher shot
3 rending sniper shots
6 S7 AP2 blasts
9 S9 AP2 lascannon shots (with 6 being twin-linked)
15 S7 AP2 plasma shots

If not for the venomthrope's shrouded cover, I'd actually be very concerned about his army.

I've only got 2+ scoring units, plus 3 scoring Heavy Supports for Big Guns. Bill out-numbers me with 10 scoring units, plus 3 AV14 tanks for Big Guns and he is going 2nd in an objectives-game.

Finally, I made 2 crucial mistakes in this game, which I will explain below.


So to sum up, this game actually turned out to be much harder than I expected because of various reasons:

1. IG with 13 scoring units and Tyranids only 5+ scoring units.

2. IG is going 2nd.

3. Hammer & Anvil deployment.

4. Once again, I failed to get Catalyst in this game.

5. I make a very silly mistake on Turn 1 - I aggressively advanced 1 flyrant into Bill's army unsupported, all for the sake of trying out Psychic Scream.

6. I rolled for my Mawloc to see if he came in on Turn 2....and then forget about him until Turn 4.


So now with this new info, do you still think Tyranids have a chance in this battle?



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/24 21:21:38



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
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Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
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The BAO multi objective format allows your bugs to go from 2 scoring unis to 5 including the heavy support. Bug heavy support are some of the most resilient unis in the game. You can't compare the survivability of 3 carnifexs to a 10 man IG unit and say those scoring units are the same. Likewise you can't compare a Vanquisher to a Mawloc and say they are equal as scoring units. One is nearly immobile and can be killed in one attack while the other is a 6 wound deep striking machine.

That's what I think Red was trying to say.

Looks like a bug cakewalk. The picture of the vendetta shows blue bugs flooding the field.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 Dezstiny wrote:
I'm actually not bringing my Tyranids to the LVO. I'm just playtesting them.

I don't see how the BAO format specifically helps to carry my list. Each scoring unit can only take 1 objective. If anything, it helps the army with the most scoring units. In that case, it should help Bill's army more than mine, especially with a horde of infantry and 3 AV14 tanks that are scoring.


Can't say I'm not suprised, but I was looking forward to if you were bringing them to see how they would do. I believe my guesses are that you would play either daemons or chaos. I'd be shocked if it wasn't one of the two but maybe you've been playtesting your eldar behind closed doors (I think I remember you stating you had some in a thread a ways back) Whatever choice I'll be looking forward to the battle reports that will ensue.

My bugs are not ready for tournament play yet. I don't have the army that I want.

Perhaps in the tournament after this.

I think I will keep my LVO army a mystery for the time being, that is, until I start up my tournament thread.


 y0disisray wrote:
I am also wondering how well the mawloc is going to do. I have high hopes for it as I think it can be pretty brutal for as cheap as it is. I personally am getting a Tyranid army and plan on running two of them. I do have a question though can both the venomthrope and the zoanthrope go into the Bastion together? I don't think they can as they follow all the same rules for embarking and disembarking with the transport capacity of 30. I also predict a Tyranid massacre.

I think mawlocs are a fine choice. Just keep 1 slot available for biovores. To me, they may just be the most efficient and threatening Heavy Support option.

The way I play my venom-zoan-bastion combo is with venomthrope inside and the zoanthrope hiding just behind it.


DarthDiggler wrote:
The BAO multi objective format allows your bugs to go from 2 scoring unis to 5 including the heavy support. Bug heavy support are some of the most resilient unis in the game. You can't compare the survivability of 3 carnifexs to a 10 man IG unit and say those scoring units are the same. Likewise you can't compare a Vanquisher to a Mawloc and say they are equal as scoring units. One is nearly immobile and can be killed in one attack while the other is a 6 wound deep striking machine.

That's what I think Red was trying to say.

Looks like a bug cakewalk. The picture of the vendetta shows blue bugs flooding the field.

I don't think it is a Tyranid advantage at all.

My heavy supports are mostly limited in terms of its range. Once I move my carnifexes outside of Shrouding range, my opponent easily has the tools to deal with 3 carnifexes (and in fact, he does). At least much more efficiently than I do in taking out his tanks. I really don't have the guns to take them out from range, and if I go to assault them, I'm going to lose my TMC next turn. And no, you can't compare the survivability of a 3 carnifex unit to an infantry squad....but why would you want to? If I was the IG player, I don't mind if my infantry squad dies....as long as they die screening out the carnifexes so that the rest of the army can shoot at it some more. Many times, more is better. That's why screening, sacrificial gants and guardsmen are so useful. They will die, but they will draw part of the opponent's offense in doing so while at the same time, limiting your opponent's options.



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Tucson, Arizona

If you noticed on the Mawloc's rules it acts kind of like barrage in the sense of where the wounds start off at. So you get a strength 6 ap2 barrage sniping weapon which I believe acts a bit better than Biovores but that's just my opinion. This will be a good match I cannot wait for its completion.

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San Jose, CA

Yeah, but one of the advantages of biovores over mawlocs is that they mess with your opponent's deployment and how he moves. Basically, biovores really restrict how your opponent plays. That in itself is almost just as good their shooting.

As an example, check out my Tyranid game against Reecius again. He was so concerned with my biovores that he hid everything. That means almost all the fire warriors and pathfinders (except his sacrificial bait squad) was hiding. That would have made it much easier for my flyrants or my other mobile threats to go upstream with much less targets that could ground them or to shoot at them.

And to think that I almost didn't ran biovores in my army against him. Hmmmm....


And think about what 3 barrages would do to naked guardsmen, especially the ones who were outflanking.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/24 22:16:18



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South Florida

Looking forward to this match, as always. Noticed, though, that the Tervigon rolled Warp Blast. Tervie actually has to re-roll that power cause it's Warp Charge 2, and the Tervigon is only a ML1 psyker. Expecting the nids to win this one!

   
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DarthDiggler wrote:
The BAO multi objective format allows your bugs to go from 2 scoring unis to 5 including the heavy support. Bug heavy support are some of the most resilient unis in the game. You can't compare the survivability of 3 carnifexs to a 10 man IG unit and say those scoring units are the same. Likewise you can't compare a Vanquisher to a Mawloc and say they are equal as scoring units. One is nearly immobile and can be killed in one attack while the other is a 6 wound deep striking machine.

That's what I think Red was trying to say.

Looks like a bug cakewalk. The picture of the vendetta shows blue bugs flooding the field.


Thanks this is what I was getting at.

   
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Los Gatos, CA

Pre Game Thoughts:

I didn’t know what Jim would be throwing down so I tried to make a pretty balance list in my case. (Usually I tend to spam in one direction or the other.) So seeing him pulling out his nid’s and seeing his list I felt pretty good about mine. (Last game as soon as I saw it was a fast demon list I could see my defeat before I put a model on the board.) I knew his biovores where going to wreck havoc on my guard if I move them in the open, so they would just have to dig in for a few turns.

I love have Al’Rahem since it allows me to get guardsmen instantly into my opponent zone and forcing them to deal with them one way or another. Having four extra scouring units in his zone, plus the possibility of killing synapse creatures, should force the nid’s synapse bubble to shrink in the late rounds.

His warlord getting outflank but a damper on my plan of having my vendettas shoot him out of the sky as he comes across the board since now it would most likely fly into my deployment zone from reserves and my flyers would have to come in hovering to deal with him just to open themselves up to his Carnifexes to glance them to death out of the sky, but at the same time with so many guardsmen squads on the field I felt I had plenty of opportunities each turn to ground him and let my tanks finish him off.

I had a solid strategy in my mind and thanks to my astropath and my warlord trait of re-rolling my reserves I knew I would be at full force in turn 2 and forcing him to keep in cover or else get shot off the board trying to advanced. against my tanks.

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San Jose, CA


 Panzer1944 wrote:
Pre Game Thoughts:

I didn’t know what Jim would be throwing down so I tried to make a pretty balance list in my case. (Usually I tend to spam in one direction or the other.) So seeing him pulling out his nid’s and seeing his list I felt pretty good about mine. (Last game as soon as I saw it was a fast demon list I could see my defeat before I put a model on the board.) I knew his biovores where going to wreck havoc on my guard if I move them in the open, so they would just have to dig in for a few turns.

I love have Al’Rahem since it allows me to get guardsmen instantly into my opponent zone and forcing them to deal with them one way or another. Having four extra scouring units in his zone, plus the possibility of killing synapse creatures, should force the nid’s synapse bubble to shrink in the late rounds.

His warlord getting outflank but a damper on my plan of having my vendettas shoot him out of the sky as he comes across the board since now it would most likely fly into my deployment zone from reserves and my flyers would have to come in hovering to deal with him just to open themselves up to his Carnifexes to glance them to death out of the sky, but at the same time with so many guardsmen squads on the field I felt I had plenty of opportunities each turn to ground him and let my tanks finish him off.

I had a solid strategy in my mind and thanks to my astropath and my warlord trait of re-rolling my reserves I knew I would be at full force in turn 2 and forcing him to keep in cover or else get shot off the board trying to advanced. against my tanks.

Thanks for your thoughts, Bill. I will add them to my Pre-game above.


rollawaythestone wrote:
Looking forward to this match, as always. Noticed, though, that the Tervigon rolled Warp Blast. Tervie actually has to re-roll that power cause it's Warp Charge 2, and the Tervigon is only a ML1 psyker. Expecting the nids to win this one!

Thanks for pointing that out. I completely missed it!

It's a good thing that my tervigon did jack squat. Otherwise, if he had shot down a tank and I had won, I'd have to disqualify myself from this game.




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Tucson, Arizona

Wow I can't believe that Vanquisher knocked out the Bastion in one shot! Very lucky for your opponent. Still I'm sure you'll win this despite giving up First Blood.

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Thoughts as of turn 2:

Despite a few blunders by you, I think you can win narrowly. Really, I think the Venomthrope could have been well served by hiding behind the Bastion rather than in it. I personally like to have one behind the Bastion and one in it, to protect from Vector Strikes, or the Bastion dying.


 
   
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Fortress of Solitude

I still believe in the nids. The IG list is kind of thin.

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Tucson, Arizona

Hey Jim I just noticed how did you Outflank your Hive Tyrant? I hope you didn't use one of the Tyrant's ability to Outflank the other because that only works on Troops.

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San Jose, CA


Report to be concluded tonight.


But first, I've got a match against Blackmoor.



 y0disisray wrote:
Wow I can't believe that Vanquisher knocked out the Bastion in one shot! Very lucky for your opponent. Still I'm sure you'll win this despite giving up First Blood.

Yeah, it was. Anything that can 1-shot an AV14 structure/tank, I would consider it somewhat lucky.


 jifel wrote:
Thoughts as of turn 2:

Despite a few blunders by you, I think you can win narrowly. Really, I think the Venomthrope could have been well served by hiding behind the Bastion rather than in it. I personally like to have one behind the Bastion and one in it, to protect from Vector Strikes, or the Bastion dying.

I'm rusty with my IG. I forget about the double-pen results of the Vanquisher. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have deployed my venomthrope inside.


 y0disisray wrote:
Hey Jim I just noticed how did you Outflank your Hive Tyrant? I hope you didn't use one of the Tyrant's ability to Outflank the other because that only works on Troops.

No, it was his Warlord trait.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/25 22:35:36



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As typical, great report.

tactics question: On turn 3, why go after the plasmacutioner with your warlord? There is an okay chance to expode it, but It would have been really reliable to take out the vendetta from behind.
   
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 jy2 wrote:


Yeah, it was. Anything that can 1-shot an AV14 structure/tank, I would consider it somewhat lucky.



The D needs no luck to penetrate.

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Mexico

If you are playing someone with D weapons then something already went wrong.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/26 02:18:33


 
   
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Los Gatos, CA

 jy2 wrote:


 jifel wrote:
Thoughts as of turn 2:

Despite a few blunders by you, I think you can win narrowly. Really, I think the Venomthrope could have been well served by hiding behind the Bastion rather than in it. I personally like to have one behind the Bastion and one in it, to protect from Vector Strikes, or the Bastion dying.

I'm rusty with my IG. I forget about the double-pen results of the Vanquisher. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have deployed my venomthrope inside.



Yeah a lot of people forget that a Vanquisher is a long range melta gun that rolls 2 dice for pen. Add Pask to that and you're penning AV14 on a 6 on two dice since he adds one to your pen result. Pask was made for bringing down any vehicle or fortification.

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San Jose, CA


Battle report completed.


coredump wrote:
As typical, great report.

tactics question: On turn 3, why go after the plasmacutioner with your warlord? There is an okay chance to expode it, but It would have been really reliable to take out the vendetta from behind.

For a number of reasons.

1. I wanted to keep my flyrant in the air and swooping. Not sure if I could have remained flying had I gone after his vendetta (but now that I look at the photos again, I probably could).

2. His plasmacutioner is scoring and worth +1 VP if killed.

3. His plasmacutioner is a very dangerous threat with its 3 blasts + lascannon, especially to my dakkafexes.

4. I could potentially kill 2 tanks with this move. Vector-strike vs the chimera and Warp Lance vs the plasmacutioner in the rear.

5. I don't want to stay in the center of his army where the whole army can fire at my flyrant. I want to get to the outsides to deny him some of his shooting (at least to my flyrant).

6. There is a piece of 4+ cover terrain that I wanted to take advantage of by flying towards the plasmacutioner.


 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
 jy2 wrote:


Yeah, it was. Anything that can 1-shot an AV14 structure/tank, I would consider it somewhat lucky.



The D needs no luck to penetrate.

The D mechanism is stupidly absurd in normal games. If he had brought D, he probably would have tabled my nids long ago.

You're talking about bringing a bazooka to a knife-fight. The comparisons just isn't fair.


 Panzer1944 wrote:

Yeah a lot of people forget that a Vanquisher is a long range melta gun that rolls 2 dice for pen. Add Pask to that and you're penning AV14 on a 6 on two dice since he adds one to your pen result. Pask was made for bringing down any vehicle or fortification.

I've actually tried Pask in a Vanquisher before when I was still playing IG. Back then, mech was king so there was definitely much more targets for it back then than right now. But for me, the Vanquisher never really did much of anything so I dropped it like a bad habit.

But that was when the "new" IG codex came out many moons ago. Easy to forget once you haven't seen the vanquisher in ages.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/26 08:22:57



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He did amazing despite a fluffy list and some questionable target priority. Had he gone for the tervigon with his vendettas and the zoanthrope with his outflankers and veterans I think he could have won through synapse alone. I think punishers are a tad better then exectutioners, but thats more personal preference. I prefer VOF over direct fire blasts.

He REALLY hates biovores apparently

   
 
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