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You mean something like:


At Arms Reach- Activate this stratagem when an Adaptus Custodes equipped with a custodian spear type weapon is chosen as the target in the fight phase. No more than 3 attacks per enemy model in engagement range may target this unit.

Masterful control of the battlefield allows The custodian to keep his foes at bay, reducing the effectiveness of their onslaught.

Or just a copy of the DA one that only lets models w/in 1" attack.

Eh, straight copy from the DA codex strat would be boring, but very useful nonetheless.

Would be cool to see that strat or something similar included, but also give our guardian spears back the 7th Ed "block" rule! It would be actually really useful against high quality attacks while also being really unique.

Whatever they choose to do, spears need something useful (and preferably also unique) to be worth taking alongside our guys with shields.

Tiberias wrote:
Eh, straight copy from the DA codex strat would be boring, but very useful nonetheless.

Would be cool to see that strat or something similar included, but also give our guardian spears back the 7th Ed "block" rule! It would be actually really useful against high quality attacks while also being really unique.

Whatever they choose to do, spears need something useful (and preferably also unique) to be worth taking alongside our guys with shields.

Copying rules would be boring but it seems like they're going for similar rules under different names across the board for consistency.

Spears could probably do with a points drop vs shields might be an idea or give us something that makes taking a massive unit of spear infantry worth while? Like:
"Phalanx: if this unit contains 3 or more spears and only contains spears then change the spear profile to S+2 AP-3 D3"

 mrhappyface wrote:

Tiberias wrote:
Eh, straight copy from the DA codex strat would be boring, but very useful nonetheless.

Would be cool to see that strat or something similar included, but also give our guardian spears back the 7th Ed "block" rule! It would be actually really useful against high quality attacks while also being really unique.

Whatever they choose to do, spears need something useful (and preferably also unique) to be worth taking alongside our guys with shields.

Copying rules would be boring but it seems like they're going for similar rules under different names across the board for consistency.

Spears could probably do with a points drop vs shields might be an idea or give us something that makes taking a massive unit of spear infantry worth while? Like:
"Phalanx: if this unit contains 3 or more spears and only contains spears then change the spear profile to S+2 AP-3 D3"

That's honestly a fair suggestion, though I am personally not a big fan of fixing things mostly by point adjustments, especially in a faction that does not have a lot of unit and equipment options like custodes.

I'm all for buffing spears, but giving them flat 3 dmg would be too much imo. The flat 3 dmg should imo be reserved for axes.

Now how about this: it's just a crackpot theory, but hear me out....with fight last abilities being everywhere nowadays, how about giving spears the ability to always fight first even when being charged. Yes, that would be really strong, but it could still be countered with a fight last ability.
That way spears actually have a role as being a defensive option against melee centric armies, which fits both the custodes lore in general and it also makes sense that it shouldn't be easy to charge a group of gene-altered demigods who wield huge pointy sticks.

So this way spears actually have an identity as a more defensive choice (against melee) and axes get flat 3 dmg for raw unbridled power and offensive dmg dealing against vehicles and monsters.

Spears are already 7 points cheaper than shields per model, the solution isn't to increase that disparity even more. Spears just need a sweep profile - double your attacks, at S:user -2AP 1 damage each - and flat D2 on the non-sweep, and that'd make them instantly worth considering.

Sword and shield: unchanged

Spear: +1S -3AP 2D, or double attacks at S:U -2AP D1

Axes: +3S, -2AP, 3D.

Keep the strats that give spears +1 to wound and axes +1AP.

That makes each weapon worth serious consideration.

Maybe just add +1S to all of them too, in light of recent stat inflation. It's kinda dumb when you think about it that a generic power sword has a greater strength bonus that a custodes sword.

I'd also change the misericordia to do a single MW on a successful hit roll (with no other stats or damage), limit it to a single extra attack per model after all other attacks have been made, and then bake into the unit cost so no more of this having to pay points for it nonsense. Gives a custodian a little extra oopmh against the toughest targets in a lore-friendly way (it's supposed to be a dagger that deals the coup de grace, and the 40k lore says they can go through any armor as if it isn't there).

I just wondered if having a "if this unit is over x models" rule might be nice to give us some variety other than minimum squads of sword and board

I meant more that with every attack there is a high chance of an out right kill, of a model, excepting vehicles and warlords or monsters. Instead of a MW, it's just a 6+ destroys 1 model.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I meant more that with every attack there is a high chance of an out right kill, of a model, excepting vehicles and warlords or monsters. Instead of a MW, it's just a 6+ destroys 1 model.

That's too powerful and also a very good example of a feel bad rule. It's "only" on a 6, but it's still too much imo. Potentially taking out an enemy deathshroud terminator with one swing without our opponent having an opportunity to roll against it is not only op, but also makes for rather non-engaging gameplay.

I guess, I don't see the difference given the disparity between our points cost, our capability, and what other units less than 100 points can currently do.

So I've just been taking another look at the Pallas Grav-tank, a unit which I had dismissed for a long time, and looking at it now, it doesn't seem toooo bad. Compare it to Vertus Praetors:

Points: the Pallas is 10pts more than a VP

Toughness: 3+/5++ T6 8W vs 2+/4++ T6 4W

Shooting: 2x S7 AP-4 D3 (re-roll against vehicles) vs 1x S8 AP-4 Dd6 (re-roll against vehicles) OR 6x S5 AP-2 D1 vs 6x S4 AP0 D1 (rapid fire)

Melee: Vertus obviously win here

Mobility: 16" vs 14"


I'm not saying that these are the overlooked gems that are gonna sky rocket our codex into the no.1 position, but they look interesting as a mobile gunboat. Might give them a try on TTS, see how much the lack of melee hurts them.

They're not bad. The main problem is they kinda pull in two directions - on the one hand, you're paying lots of points for a mobile profile that encourages you to think about using them to get engage, hop on objectives, etc - and on the other, you're also paying points for the gun, which is at that awkward spot of being just good enough that you don't want to not shoot it, but not good enough that it actually kills much of anything on its own. So you're stuck with a unit that on the one hand you want to send off on its own as a mobility tool, and, on the other, you want to add to the rest of your firepower against a specific target. Either way, you feel like you're paying points for something you don't really use.

They also die to a stiff breeze.

I agree they're better than bikes, but almost anything is. Bikes are just terrible, far too expensive for how easy they are to kill these days.

Pallas would be fine if you could take 3 in a squadron.

3 would be as many wounds as 6 bikes, with far more reliable shooting but little to no melee. It would also make an excellent unit to soak up smites with, as 24 wounds for 285points is far better than 12 wounds for 225.

The bikes have better stratagem support I think. But that might all change, who knows. Right now Stooping dive seals it for me. Also Bikes will likely be core, whereas the Pallas won't.

yukishiro1 wrote:
They're not bad. The main problem is they kinda pull in two directions - on the one hand, you're paying lots of points for a mobile profile that encourages you to think about using them to get engage, hop on objectives, etc - and on the other, you're also paying points for the gun, which is at that awkward spot of being just good enough that you don't want to not shoot it, but not good enough that it actually kills much of anything on its own. So you're stuck with a unit that on the one hand you want to send off on its own as a mobility tool, and, on the other, you want to add to the rest of your firepower against a specific target. Either way, you feel like you're paying points for something you don't really use.

They also die to a stiff breeze.

I agree they're better than bikes, but almost anything is. Bikes are just terrible, far too expensive for how easy they are to kill these days.

I'm thinking they might be good to run in a double Telemon list: their mobility meaning you can scatter from the castle if need be and though they might be squishy, any shots fired at them are not shots fired at your Telemons.

Thinking about it, for the points they're about the same cost as 1 Telemon:

Points: Telemon is 25pts cheaper

Toughness: 3+/5++ T6 24W (3 targets) vs 2+/4++/6+++ T8 14W (-1 to damage)

Shooting: 6x S7 AP-4 D3 (re-roll against vehicles) vs 8x S7 AP-3 D2

Melee: N/A

Mobility: 16" vs 8"

Once again, the Telemon is the winner but having 3 Pallas tanks supporting 1-2 Telemons... Slightly higher quality shooting, better maneuver ability... I don't know, just might be an alternative way of playing our army, I'll give it a go and let you all know how it did.

I was thinking about something that most races have that Custodes could really benefit from: A medic unit. Roll a 4+ bring a model back to life sort of thing, I know the exchange rate is OP, 3-5 wounds for a 4+? But even if it's just wounds back it's something I really think could work for us?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I was thinking about something that most races have that Custodes could really benefit from: A medic unit. Roll a 4+ bring a model back to life sort of thing, I know the exchange rate is OP, 3-5 wounds for a 4+? But even if it's just wounds back it's something I really think could work for us?

Hmmm, idk, a Custodes medic just doesn't feel like a unit that would exist in terms of lore. Of course if I'm wrong and there is a Custodes apothecary in the lore please correct me but it wouldn't feel like a Custodes unit, just a re-skinned Space Marine one.

A relic that acted as a kind of once per game resurrection orb I could mayyybe see though but I don't know how much value bringing models back that had been killed that phase would be.

I think it'd work better to just have all custodes infantry and bikers heal a wound at the end of each turn (not battle round). Gotta bring them down all at once with overwhelming force, or they quickly put themselves back together and you gotta do it all again.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I think it'd work better to just have all custodes infantry and bikers heal a wound at the end of each turn (not battle round). Gotta bring them down all at once with overwhelming force, or they quickly put themselves back together and you gotta do it all again.

Hmmm, would make our Characters even more of a bitch to remove though.

Which fits though, doesn't it? They used to be a lot harder to kill than they are now, with all the damage inflation.

Yeah, I'd love it. Just wondering whether the larger community would be very happy about regening smash captains.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Yeah, I'd love it. Just wondering whether the larger community would be very happy about regening smash captains.

Judging by how people reacted towards all the Apothecary buffs/abilities for SM? I would say that would be a big no, even if it's a big chunk of points in your army. If there's one thing I've noticed players hating more than losing half their army before the game begins, it's not being able to kill things themselves.

In a game with stuff like Mortarion or apothecaries that heal multiple models a turn and rez another from the dead automatically, I really don't think anybody's going to be too upset about a bike captain that gets a wound or two back if you don't oneshot him. I mean, have you ever heard anyone complain about Living Metal? Anything is possible I guess, but it'd really surprise me if anyone particularly cared about Custodes getting the odd wound or two back here or there.

The only thing I can remember was the complaining about the IH regeneration of their dreads. That I could understand. What I think needs to change though is we are no longer even hard to kill. For some who don't have their codex yet, sure. But when Admech goes live, thats 3-4 codexes, with cheap units, Relatively, which can delete us with relative ease. Cognis weapons anyone? Witches? Plage Marine terminators? Eradicators? Melta Bikers? We need some form of regenerative ability, it's the only thing we don't currently have. Whether it's an always on faction ability, or a stratagem, or a unit, we need it.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The only thing I can remember was the complaining about the IH regeneration of their dreads. That I could understand. What I think needs to change though is we are no longer even hard to kill. For some who don't have their codex yet, sure. But when Admech goes live, thats 3-4 codexes, with cheap units, Relatively, which can delete us with relative ease. Cognis weapons anyone? Witches? Plage Marine terminators? Eradicators? Melta Bikers? We need some form of regenerative ability, it's the only thing we don't currently have. Whether it's an always on faction ability, or a stratagem, or a unit, we need it.

It'd be something, but I'd prefer if they just jacked us to 80-90 PPM for a Custodian Guard (more for the others), gave us 5-6W minimum and more offensive potential. We're a low model count, super-elite army. Let's just embrace it and go wild.

I think we can all agree that custodes need to be more deadly and need to be tougher - they should be the most elite things in the game, full stop.

The deadlyness can easily be handled by an extra attack on everything (this fits with the increase alot of other units have received and would keep us in line) and then change up the weapon profiles.

The sword and shield work well - add an extra St to keep it in line with powerswords and perhaps change to flat 2 dam but I would be ok with D3 still. Keep the shield as is, we need a super survivable option.

Halberd - Perhaps an extra St but its not hugely useful, flat D:2 and as mentioned above a sweep profile for double attacks, this gives it a solid roll as anti mass infantry.

Axe - Change it to D:3, other than that its fine.

Lance - Again giving it a flat damage 2, perhaps damage 3 on the charge.


I think the survivability is a harder thing to add, you don't really want to replicate things other armies get (-1 dam, -1 to hit, only wound on a 4+) and we already have good toughness and as good invulnerable saves.

A few options I think could work:

- Enemy units cannot re-roll the attack or wound roll when attacking custodes - has the added benefit of speeding the game up.

- Reduce the AP of all attacks against custodes by 1 - this would be essential if they reduce our invulnerable saves.

- Enemy units must re-roll all successful wounds against custodes - likely too good but hammers home the fact only powerful weapons are of use against them.

I think that we possibly need an extra W on most profiles as well, just to keep us in line with marines but I don't think that will happen.

 WisdomLS wrote:
I think we can all agree that custodes need to be more deadly and need to be tougher - they should be the most elite things in the game, full stop.

The deadlyness can easily be handled by an extra attack on everything (this fits with the increase alot of other units have received and would keep us in line) and then change up the weapon profiles.

The sword and shield work well - add an extra St to keep it in line with powerswords and perhaps change to flat 2 dam but I would be ok with D3 still. Keep the shield as is, we need a super survivable option.

Halberd - Perhaps an extra St but its not hugely useful, flat D:2 and as mentioned above a sweep profile for double attacks, this gives it a solid roll as anti mass infantry.

Axe - Change it to D:3, other than that its fine.

Lance - Again giving it a flat damage 2, perhaps damage 3 on the charge.


I think the survivability is a harder thing to add, you don't really want to replicate things other armies get (-1 dam, -1 to hit, only wound on a 4+) and we already have good toughness and as good invulnerable saves.

A few options I think could work:

- Enemy units cannot re-roll the attack or wound roll when attacking custodes - has the added benefit of speeding the game up.

- Reduce the AP of all attacks against custodes by 1 - this would be essential if they reduce our invulnerable saves.

- Enemy units must re-roll all successful wounds against custodes - likely too good but hammers home the fact only powerful weapons are of use against them.

I think that we possibly need an extra W on most profiles as well, just to keep us in line with marines but I don't think that will happen.

I'd like to point out that there is also absolutely no reason to not allow basic custodes to take a powerfist and stormshield as it it indeed the case for custodes during the HH.

The Hetareon guard that can equip the Solarite gauntlets and shields are an elite unit.

Our elites are already quite packed. I'd like to get them as a bodyguard type option though, like if you take a Captain Commander/Trajaan you can take one squad of 2-3 of them and they would get the bodyguard rule.

They would have the extra attack and leadership like wardens, plus the gear options, and an Always Fight first rule if they are near the HQ they are there to protect.

If we gave basic Custodes Power Fists and SS they would be the most broken thing in the game, even if they were 65ppm.

looking at admech and drukhari, that is a really strong F from me