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Hey folks. So, a couple of threads on dating (or lack thereof) got me thinking some of the more lucky-in-love dakkanauts should pile in with some advice and help our brothers in arms to meet either that special someone, or (my personal preference) that unspecial anyone!

The thing is, it's really no mystery. Anyone, repeat ANYONE can get a date. I go on loads of them. I've got a few extra pounds (though working on it, with success), I'm over 30 and starting to resemble Bruce Willis in the follicle department. Yet, and without sounding like a total dick, I'm pretty successful when it comes to *ahem* 'the Ladies'. I'm going to share what works for me, and I would encourage the rest of you to do the same. Let's get these gentlemen hooked up!

Here's what works for me:

Part I: Confidence
I am super confident in approaching women. Not because I look like Brad Pitt or have his bank balance, but because I genuinely don't give a feth about the outcome. This is like, some secret next-level gak I am sharing here. There is nothing more powerful than not giving a gak when talking to a woman. I don't mean being aloof or uninterested. This isn't the '50s. Act friendly and interested. Crack jokes. Make fun of her. If she does it back, you're onto something. It's sort of a negging approach, but gentler. I'll give you an example that happened to me literally yesterday: So, there's this awesome-looking girl in my office. She's incredible. Also, really intelligent, as it turns out. She's into chess. Anyway, who gives a gak what she's into, she struck up a conversation with me, ostensibly about work, so I invited her over to my desk to chat about it and to show her something which was on my desk that was related. As she gets to my desk, she spills her water on it, so I laughed at her and said 'smooth!'. Hey! I said I was confident, not a stand-up comedian! Now, she could have gotten all coy, or even offended, but instead she laughed and we ended up have a really nice conversation, during which she stood really close to me (proximity is a great indicator, more on that later) and gave off all sorts of positive signals.

Anyway, the key to building a romantic rapport (as opposed to a purely friendship-based one) is confidence and confidence comes not from arrogance and believing you're better than everyone else, because that's basically just hollow hubris. It's very fragile. True confidence comes from not giving a feth about how you are perceived. Not giving a feth is cool. Being cool gets you laid. The point I'm making is that I didn't give a gak what the girl would think about my sarky comment, which meant that I wasn't self-conscious, and so it came across playful as opposed to hostile or snide. Don't apologise, don't explain yourself, don't care - you will appear self-possessed and therefore dominant. We're just apes, after all...

Coming in Part II: 'The Importance of Proximity'

Over to you, Dakka. Any other advice for the bros?

Best advice I ever had was be confident and the worst that can happen is she says no. A little bit of common sense is necessary because sometimes its not a good time or idea to ask a certain person out, but the general idea always worked for me.

Buy one.

 Peregrine wrote:
Buy one.

That joke is so bad it made me cringe.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Best advice I ever had was be confident and the worst that can happen is she says no. A little bit of common sense is necessary because sometimes its not a good time or idea to ask a certain person out, but the general idea always worked for me.

Yeah, I was thinking of doing a chapter on setting realistic goals, but I guess that's all there is to it, really! Saying that, a cat can look at a king (or queen), so to speak. There is literally no reason not to speak to any girl, even if you think she's out of your league. I thought my last girlfriend was out of my league, but it actually turned out that she thought I was out of her league! Basically, my overall bearing and demeanour, plus (no arrogance intended at all) my intelligence, made her think she didn't stand a chance, weirdly. I mean, being wargamers, we're mostly of above average intelligence - we should use it to our advantage. Some girls REALLY dig intelligent men, but confidence and charm is key in putting it across in the right way.

Anyway, just my opinion.

Getting a date is a numbers game. If you approach more women, you'll find yourself meeting more girls you take an interest in, and the more of them you ask out for a coffee, the more who will say yes.

That is, of course, harder than it sounds, because for most of us rejection is pretty hard to take. The challenge is, like Albatross says, in just not giving a feth.

This is something I actually only figured when, of all places, my search of the internet for all truly crazy things took me to the Pick Up Artist community. Now these guys are really creepy and most of their ideas range between weird and completely insane, but the funny is that they have a much better success rate with women than a lot of guys. The interesting thing is that they get this success despite their their games and theories being incredibly stupid... but in focusing on games and method, they stop the pick up being personal - if a girl says no it is just a failure of their method, not a personal rejection. As a result, they can approach dozens of girls and not worry when they get turned down, because sooner or later a girl will say yes.

The trick is how to get that mindset without picking up any of the PUA community's misogyny. To learn to just move on when a girl says no. It isn't ever easier, but it gets easier with age, and easier the more you try it.

The only advice I can give you is bring a wingman, and try to project an aura of danger.

 sebster wrote:
To learn to just move on when a girl says no. It isn't ever easier, but it gets easier with age, and easier the more you try it.

In the same vein I'll say that getting your life in order absent the relationship is also important. If a girl turns me down I'll still be a healthy, successful man in his late 20's. This, of course, ties back into Albatross' point about confidence and will make you more attractive overall; regardless of sex and gender.

 dogma wrote:
In the same vein I'll say that getting your life in order absent the relationship is also important. If a girl turns me down I'll still be a healthy, successful man in his late 20's. This, of course, ties back into Albatross' point about confidence and will make you more attractive overall; regardless of sex and gender.

Yeah, very good point. Get your gak together, and be okay with where you're at whether you have a girl or not. It makes it easier to ask girls out, it means it doesn't matter so much when they say no, it increases the chances they'll say yes, and if you end up in a long term relationship then that relationship will stand a much better chance of lasting and being a positive experience.

Often men who have trouble with girls ask themselves, 'How can I get girls to like me?' This is the wrong question. What you should be asking yourself is, 'How can I become someone women will like?'

Hard words to hear, I know.

But if you're a pudgy ugly man with the personality of a dried pea who never leaves his house, never does anything creative, and isn't a millionaire, then your odds of getting that vivacious supermodel like girl are very slim. Because this is the real world, and that's hard enough for attractive men with a dozen talents. Even on those rare occasions where you see an exceedingly unattractive man with a very hot girl, it will be because he compensates for his lack of physical attractiveness elsewhere. He'll have spent his teen years learning how to play guitar, do amazing watercolour paintings, or writing a book. Something that made him attractive to a potential partner.

When you know you have self-worth, when you've achieved accomplishment in your life, that's when everything else tends to fall into place. If you take care of your body/health? If you spend your time teaching yourself new languages, or learning new skills? If you develop yourself as an individual? That's when the girls appear.

Sitting back eating cheetos, watching anime, playing video games and complaining about being friendzoned leaves you on the beach of the metaphorical gene pool. Sure, you might hook a girl in the same position, but the odds are you'll be taking what you can get as opposed to what you want, both in terms of personality and appearance.

 Albatross wrote:
Basically, my overall bearing and demeanour, plus (no arrogance intended at all) my intelligence, made her think she didn't stand a chance, weirdly. Some girls REALLY dig intelligent men, but confidence and charm is key in putting it across in the right way.

Not weird at all - this was one of the most important lessons for me. Intelligence is an asset, but unless you have a naturally "aggressive" approach to women, which shows you're interested, you might need to learn to handle it well.

I was never really shy or self-conscious, but certainly one of the more laid-back, let-it-happen-type of guys. At least that's what I thought. What I gathered over the course of my 20s was that instead I came across as friendly, but disinterested, unapproachable or even aloof, even though there was definite interest on the other side. For a long time I didn't understand why, as I was open, nice and rather successfull with my humor.

What I had to learn was to, for a lack of better words, "tone it down a bit"; and I don't mean acting dumber because all women are stupid, but showing that next to my intellectual side, there's a human being with strengths and weaknesses who's also really interested in the woman in front of him, not just the conversation. I simply never made that a topic before, because I was so caught up in "interesting things" to talk about that I always forgot to give a little of myself away as well.

Put yourself in an environment where there are lots of women who you will see regularly and can get comfortable chatting with.

An good example is some sort of sports club like running or triathlon. Ironically after I met my wife, I did both triathlon and running and got to know lots of women who were friendly and pretty fit (in both senses of the word). Quite a few were single too. Of course, I was married then, but it did occur to me that I really should have done it sooner.

Remember though, you are there to run, swim, socialise etc, not to pick up women. That part can happen naturally when you've got to know them.

Seems as good a way as any.

(First two quote come from the other thread)

 Polonius wrote:
It's easier then meeting whatever unrealistic standards you currently have set for yourself.

Not sure. I mean, for meeting the standard I at least know what I should do. How do you work on raising your self-worth if not by trying to improve yourself ?

Bullockist wrote:
Also as someone who has had a few substamce issues, if you unnhappy about yourself chang something. Exersize is usually the best way to start positive change. Just a 15 minute walk in the sun every 2nd day will help change your outlook.

I tried doing push-ups every morning. It did help with body image, but still has all the rest to work on. And when I reached about 40 push-up a day, my wrist started hurting, so I stopped, out of fear I might damage something. Did not start again after the pain went away, but it was okay.
I also do 15 minutes biking uphill everyday, but usually under a gray sky rather than the sun, that is how I go to work .

 Flashman wrote:
Put yourself in an environment where there are lots of women who you will see regularly and can get comfortable chatting with

Yeah, I need to do that. Because I am quite unlikely to meet a girl at work (computer science PhD, not so many girls out here ) or at my LGS.
I need to find out something I like to do that will meet this requirement and fit in my schedule.

I've had such good luck lately with women that I've started throwing borderline homicidal phrases into conversation for the fun of it. I'm not sure if it's because they don't speak english well, or if they are actually turned on by the idea of me ripping open their bodies and mutilating them, but it seems to keep their attention pretty well.

I used to think that being a nice guy and listening to them and all that was the best way to get a girl, but it's really the worst. Doing the total opposite and not caring at all, almost treating romance like some psychological game works better. If nothing else, it's fun.

First off, Seb is right on the money about ignoring any pick up artist stuff if you are actually interested in a girlfriend, rather than sex.

Albatross is also dead on when he talks about confidence. I was really lacking in confidence when I was in school, really had low self worth. When I went to University, my confidence gradually increased. The thing is, it was still basically floating on a big ocean of unresolved insecurity, and every relationship problem I had in Uni can be traced back to that.

Confidence is a tricky thing. I recently had some trouble in my current relationship because moving country, not being able to speak the language and all that, put a dent in it. My girlfriend and I had some troubles, which seemed to partially go away when I got more comfortable in work and in my job, and felt more confident again.

It's not easy to build your confidence, but acknowledging the things you're good at is a good start.

Some of you might have seen the cracked article about this, but it;s pretty good, if you can take a fairly blunt approach:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/

Making a change to help yourself feel better, should be the first step. I didn't solve my problems with my girlfriend through any magical techniques- I started learning German, I knuckled down and focused on doing well in work, and started feeling better about myself. (There was some negotiation and discussion involved too, of course, but we both agreed it was the change in my confidence levels that had the biggest effect).

Back in my day we just stomped the ground, bellowed, and flashed the ladies our macho tusks.

I would also add, don't be serious. Don't make it life or death. Just invite someone out to something you're doing already. Dogma is correct in that get your freaking life sorted out first.

Also, biker bars are excellent places to meet gals for long term relationships.

As an aside, walking a really cute lovable dog is always a hit. Young wimminz love dem da wienie er dog.

British Dakkanauts, come to America, your accent over here is like using The Force or the voice of command from DUNE.

Despite having a face like a robber's dog, I am, almost daily, subjected to flirting and at least weekly, onto a sure thing if I want it, despite not looking at all. It's just a shame I didn't get myself over here at 17 and just spend a decade plundering the nation's finest, rather than coming over as a 37year old married man. The other really refreshing thing is that American girls don't give off so many weird mixed signals and so on, they are much more forward and clear on what their intentions are than British girls.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
(First two quote come from the other thread)

Bullockist wrote:
Also as someone who has had a few substamce issues, if you unnhappy about yourself chang something. Exersize is usually the best way to start positive change. Just a 15 minute walk in the sun every 2nd day will help change your outlook.

I tried doing push-ups every morning. It did help with body image, but still has all the rest to work on. And when I reached about 40 push-up a day, my wrist started hurting, so I stopped, out of fear I might damage something. Did not start again after the pain went away, but it was okay.
I also do 15 minutes biking uphill everyday, but usually under a gray sky rather than the sun, that is how I go to work .

The whole exercize angle was more aimed at people who seem to be overly lacking in self confidence, just a small step that you stick to can provide the impetus to crawl out of the hole someone is in. The sense of sticking to something as miniscule as a 15 minute walk in the sun every 2 days can help someone realise that THEY can change their situation. Also vitamin D is VERY helpful for depression/anxiety. . Thucydides had it right “Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage.”

and captain fantastic , man, sometimes you scare me. Next you'll be talking about having a skull in a fish tank. I am really hoping what you type is in jest. Also fear is a great attention grabber.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
British Dakkanauts, come to America, your accent over here is like using The Force or the voice of command from DUNE.

Despite having a face like a robber's dog, I am, almost daily, subjected to flirting and at least weekly, onto a sure thing if I want it, despite not looking at all. It's just a shame I didn't get myself over here at 17 and just spend a decade plundering the nation's finest, rather than coming over as a 37year old married man. The other really refreshing thing is that American girls don't give off so many weird mixed signals and so on, they are much more forward and clear on what their intentions are than British girls.

From my experience you are absolutely right on the accent point, and the fact that US ladies are generally much more direct. My wife always said that American chicks had a weak spot for accents, now that I'm here I can see how true that is. Nothing like standing chatting to your better half and a sales clerk coming over and demanding that I talk to her just so she can hear the accent (my wife thinks this is hilarious when it happens )

To be fair though, Dreadclaw, the Northern Irish accent is probably the best one on the island
Northern Irish accent on women, dead sexay.

My girlfriend makes fun of my (moi) accent all the toime. :(

 Da Boss wrote:
To be fair though, Dreadclaw, the Northern Irish accent is probably the best one on the island
Northern Irish accent on women, dead sexay.

My girlfriend makes fun of my (moi) accent all the toime. :(

It also has a real novelty value in the US because most people expect a Dublin accent when they think of an Irish accent

If I lose the accent I have to deport myself until I regain it, that was the deal She is amazed that I can somehow put random y's in words, and it is hilarious when she tries to copy the accent

What's better...Irish accent with an Australian accent...

 sebster wrote:
Getting a date is a numbers game. If you approach more women, you'll find yourself meeting more girls you take an interest in, and the more of them you ask out for a coffee, the more who will say yes.
.

I've got a friend who we call 'Mr 1%' for that very reason. He never lets a no get him down, and his asking of so many women eventually netted him a few responses of yes. Now he is in a happy relationship. So yeah, don't be afraid to be Mr 1%.

Couldn't find the one I was looking for, but I've always found Boomhauer to have some pretty profound advice. Basically it's a numbers game. Don't get hung up one one single woman if she's not interested. Be confident, be funny, avoid being intensely serious.
I've asked hundreds of girls out, it's not about not taking "no" for an answer, it's about hearing "no" and realizing that it doesn't mean you can't try again with somebody else. Not the end of the world. Sometimes you hear "yes" and that's when you get to be the confident, fun guy that you are Sometimes women fall into your lap, for some men more than others. I will never forget meeting a girl and 10 minutes later fething her. Seriously, I got shot down all the time. But once in awhile I didn't, and I always got to close the deal almost immediately. Makes it all worth it.
I joined an online dating site and must've sent 30 emails. of those 30 I got 3 responses. Good enough, especially since one of those three is the best woman I've ever come across, and is now my fiancee.

Actually, "avoid being intensely serious" is great advice. When I was doing my PhD and immediately after I quit, I was really serious and dour, and I had zero luck with making friends with ANYONE, let alone laydees, at that time.

Lots of us nerds tend to be a bit intense, but cooling off on it is a good thing a lot of the time!

It was only online correspondence that brought out my less than absolutely dour and serious side. (Which is weird, because I'm a lot less jokey on Dakka now than I am in real life.)

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
(First two quote come from the other thread)

 Polonius wrote:
It's easier then meeting whatever unrealistic standards you currently have set for yourself.

Not sure. I mean, for meeting the standard I at least know what I should do. How do you work on raising your self-worth if not by trying to improve yourself ?

Why do you need to improve yourself? You seem to have pegged yourself as deficient in some way! The key is to do something that boosts your confidence, that makes you feel good about being you. Become confident and you will magically 'improve' in the eyes of women.

I would definitely recommend some sort of exercise, as someone else mentioned. For me, weight-training has made a huge difference to my self-esteem levels. I think it must be all that extra testosterone sloshing around in my system! Test is great for boosting your overall confidence, so look to increase it by performing large compound exercises like squats and deadlifts, get plenty of sleep and consider supplementing with Zinc and vitamin D.

Saw the thread title and thought I'd chime in, but you guys pretty much have it covered.

Project confidence? Check.

Try and try again? Check.

Get your gak together? Check.

Like I said in the other thread, what will really undermine you with the first two points is to build things up too much. The best way to avoid this is to ACT. You see a girl you'd like to talk to, do it NOW. Waiting and watching and pining away will make you less than confident heading in and also put too much of your ego on the chopping block if she isn't into you. See girl, approach girl. Rinse and repeat.

As an aside, if you're like me, the thing that will take your desirability up to Super Saiyan level is to get married. Because I'm not looking anymore and don't care. Albatross knows this and has the advantage of being single, so he's got the special sauce. If I could give my 25 year old self the knowledge I have know, my young self would CLEAN UP. Seriously.

One thing I'd add to the last point above -- which is specifically relevant to Dakka -- is to get yourself some interests and knowledge outside of geek stuff. Read some popular books, watch some popular TV shows, read/watch the news, whatever. This gives you a stronger base from which to start casual conversation with regular girls. It should go without saying that the dating pool is ridiculously deeper if you don't limit yourself to gamer girls. So don't. And do what you need to do to be able to start a conversation with them.

 Da Boss wrote:
Actually, "avoid being intensely serious" is great advice. When I was doing my PhD and immediately after I quit, I was really serious and dour, and I had zero luck with making friends with ANYONE, let alone laydees, at that time.

Lots of us nerds tend to be a bit intense, but cooling off on it is a good thing a lot of the time!

I have a buddy. Good looking, athletic, ripped actually. Abs that every man wants. Immediately gets attention from women. His "game" however consists of being as intense as he possibly can. He has it in his head that women want the strong-silent type, so he consistently stares without blinking or saying anything, jaw clenched. Women are immediately turned off. I don't know how many times I've told him he's got to lighten up, personality goes a loooong way with women. They are social creatures, they love interaction, so as men looking for women we have to go to where they are, and that means being social creatures in that environment. Once you hook 'em long term, then you can be a somber bastard

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
British Dakkanauts, come to America, your accent over here is like using The Force or the voice of command from DUNE.

Despite having a face like a robber's dog, I am, almost daily, subjected to flirting and at least weekly, onto a sure thing if I want it, despite not looking at all. It's just a shame I didn't get myself over here at 17 and just spend a decade plundering the nation's finest, rather than coming over as a 37year old married man. The other really refreshing thing is that American girls don't give off so many weird mixed signals and so on, they are much more forward and clear on what their intentions are than British girls.

From my experience you are absolutely right on the accent point, and the fact that US ladies are generally much more direct. My wife always said that American chicks had a weak spot for accents, now that I'm here I can see how true that is. Nothing like standing chatting to your better half and a sales clerk coming over and demanding that I talk to her just so she can hear the accent (my wife thinks this is hilarious when it happens )

The flip side to that is if you're from the U.S. and pursue a girl not from the U.S., she might expect you to pursue a little harder and give you fewer strong, positive signals than you're used to. This depends on her country and culture, but I can tell you from firsthand experience that it's definitely something to keep in mind when chasing international tail.