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I'm pretty set on a Terminator Assault squad (5 man) and a Land raider being my next by, read a fair few reports and seen the carnage they can create.

What do people thing the best variant of the LR is though? My idea is to go for a Redeemer, the Flamestorms seeming like the best choice for a straight out assault unit?

Opinions?

 throwoff wrote:
I'm pretty set on a Terminator Assault squad (5 man) and a Land raider being my next by, read a fair few reports and seen the carnage they can create.

What do people thing the best variant of the LR is though? My idea is to go for a Redeemer, the Flamestorms seeming like the best choice for a straight out assault unit?

Opinions?

I am not as up on tournaments and what not, but i have played since 1990... again casual type gaming. I run Land Raiders. I favor the Godhammer (original style) with las cannons myself. Reason... new rules they get a chance to shoot fliers with twin link (re-roll misses), they can pound things while you advance at any range. You can even choose to deep strike your termnators and use the raiders as a firing platform (although other things might be a bit better at that cost wise.. however i have droped a dreadnaught, vindicator assasin, stormraven and worked on some grey knights b4 using a raider for firing platform and he paid for himself and then some... and allows some different tactics than if you just go with a close in crusader etc. I do like the standard crusader pattern as well. Another thing to think about is if the raider gets immobalized ... flame weapons can render the thing useless if enemy just stays away from you.... that said though if you do get in close you can cause some carnage... i just prefer to pound the enemy the whole way coming towards him and other things til time to drop payload etc. . My thoughts hope they help and not lead you wrong... just what i prefer .

I don't play loyalists but I was considering it, and the conventional internet wisdom seemed to be that the Redeemer sucks, because its weapons can't be effectively used. They are flamer templates on opposite sides of a LR, so a lot of your template area is always going to be wasted. The Crusader at least has lotsa dakka that can actually be fired, so it is generally considered the best assault LR. Makes sense to me.

I have used both the crusader and redeemer variants ... with dark angels (bolter banner + hurricane bolters) the crusader is truly decimating butoutside of dark angels I prefer the redeemer

Really you have to ask yourself if you would rather have

3-6 twin linked bolter shots per sponsors or 1 str 6 ap 3 template .... bolters will get more shots off during the game but they are bolters, the template can roast meq / teq / targets in cover but you will only get a few shots off during the game and both sponsors will not generally be able to hit the same target.

I assembled both options and on the flamestorm cannons attached a DA icon to hide where the outside armor plating goes, so I am able to swap each option back and forth easily (not hard to do, just do not glue the actual weapon options on the tank). I would suggest doing this and playing games with both variants.

Redeemer is ap3, not ap2. "Roasting TEQ" will not happen with ap3. Maybe you meant GEQ?

I use the crusader regularly for this, and it is either answered easily by the opponent, or lasts the whole game. It turns the game more "rock-paper-scissor"y.

My suggestion would be the Lascannon Variety. With the other options, you're good at killing infantry, but that's what the Assault Termies are there for, to pound face on infantry.

The Lascannons can shoot down transports, or other scary things, and ideally that puts infantry on the ground where you can catch them. If... I dunno... a Wave Serpent is skimming about, shooting off it's shield, you could tag it with the Lascannons, dropping the transport and its guns, but also make it so you can catch the infantry inside and introduce them to your Hammers.

Yeah, a Crusader is great if you're driving towards a horde, but otherwise good old 2 TL lascannon seems more generally useful.

Fluff-wise the Redeemer seems perfect for an assault vehicle, but as noted above, actually firing those giant flamers is rather awkward.

I've tried the Redeemer with an inquisitorial crusader squad. With Psyflame, it's a Heldrake on wheels. Simply devastating.

 greatbigtree wrote:
My suggestion would be the Lascannon Variety. With the other options, you're good at killing infantry, but that's what the Assault Termies are there for, to pound face on infantry.

I beg to differ. Assault terminators, at least the hammer kind, are actually pretty bad at killing cheap infantry. This is because they don't have particularly good ws or attack stats. So while they will murder any ork or guardsman they hit, they won't be scoring tons of hits. And they strike last, meaning all those dice are coming at you first.

Assault terminators are best used against the hardest targets. The harder the target, the more efficient the assault terminators become - conversely, the softer the target the more likely the terminators are to break them in combat (be unable to sweep) and then get shot at and perhaps tarpitted.

In this manner, LRC pairs nicely to thin large cheap squads so that the terminators con concentrate on the harder targets.

Personal opinion is that the Redeemer is just too range-limited. I vastly prefer the Crusader.

I prefer the Crusader. Additional weapon range may equate to a full extra turn of firing, which is well worth the exchange from the flamer templates to the Hurricane Bolters. Also, remember that the contents of the Raider will be great at busting up 2+ and 3+ armor saves, so I prefer to use a weapon loadout that shores up the weakness to massive squads of weaker targets.

If you aren't using forgeworld variants, then I'd say the crusader. Best transport cap (the different between crusader and redeemer is not important most of the time, but the godhammer's 10 man cap stops any characters joining the squad), best mid/close range firepower (obviously less than the redeemer at point blank, but getting in range with those templates can be an issue), counters TH/SS weakness to hordes, and finally is not too bad at hurting/forcing grounding tests on FMC's.

If forgeworld is included then the spartan would arguably be a contender for best choice.

I use the Crusader with a Multi-Melta. It has always been my favorite of the Raider family since I played Black Templar when only they had them. I prefer the Predator with lascannons for fire support and just use the Crusaders to dump LC, TH, Lysander termies out.

One thing nobody has mentioned which is a HUGE factor for the redeemer... its flamestorms ignore cover. What will do more damage to troops in cover, 3 tl bolters or a st 6 ap 3 template.

Also when in opponents lines you hardly ever sit still, even with an av14 tank. So if you move 6 you can fire 2 weapons at full bs (due to potms) at different targets, if moving 12" you can fire one. So it begins not to matter that you cant fire the templates at different targets.

Also to properly compare the redeemer with the crusader or godhammer you must add a multimelta to it to even out the points... a multimelta is pretty good mounted on an av14 tank which is within template range.

Spartan Assault Vehicle, can carry an entire 10 man squad plus independent characters, has 5 hull points and 4 TL Lascannons. Its the perfect terminator bus.

AND you can buy ceremite plating for melta immunity...

I like the original land raider as well. Yes, it carries fewer terminators, but it doesn't turn into a 250 brick on turn 2 after it drops off its cargo. It doesn't make much sense to spend that many points on something that does little more than get terminators to where you want them mid-game when they already have deepstrike for free.

Now, something that can deliver termies and THEN hack at stuff with TLLCs and a multimelta, well, that's a different story.

When space marines were my main army I would constantly use 3 Vanilla Land Raiders (before drop pods came out). 6 TL lascannon shots a turn will pop anything, then you can send your assault termies to work on the occupants. I usually ran lightning claw termies in the one I would send into light infantry, TH/SS on any elite units where I needed the invul save or the hammer (usually would need both anyway for that unit), and either some tac marines are something of that variety in the third. Hardly any army could take em' down, I didn't need any anti AV besides them (5 lascannon hits a turn would do the trick).

By no means do you need to, or would I suggest, you run three. Depending on your list size, adding some other heavy armor in there should be done for saturation. Keep in mind, if you want to take out some AV while your are taking your termies somewhere else, it is very easy. Its basically a devastator squad, that is in a fortress, that is on wheels.

Keep the ranges in mind too:
Lascannon 48" range- very few things can pop AV14 at that range.
Hurricane Bolters 24" range- some things can pop AV14 at that range.
Flamestorm Cannon Template range- MELTA! and everything else that could also hit at 24" and 48"

So to me, this is how I look at it, the flamestorm cannon is terrible as the way the model is made you can only get one on target, and to even get close to being able to use it, you are in melta range. So its a no to that. The hurricane bolters fire range is decent, you may be able to shoot it two times as you advance, but 6 TL boltguns is fairly pitiful for 250 points, and what can they do that your tacticals/scouts shouldnt already be doing? So its a maybe for me. However, having 2 TL lascannon shots a turn will allow me to reach across the board. Not only that, but after I drop off my termies, I can stay far away from the things that will pop my LR and use it to target AV or any special units. Not only that, but if I am advancing with my terminators, nothing is worse than having your target play keep away with you in their transport, so using those lascannons turn 1 and all the way up to when you reach them will allow you to pop the transport.

Flamestorm- Terrible Idea, useless and can get melta'd
Hurricane Bolters- Average range, pitiful fire output
Lascannons- Great range, AV popping ability.




Edit: Here is a pic of my 3 land raiders that I used to use. Sold em a few days ago.