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Right, this is a 2000pts Grey Knights list I made up. I own most of the models, but any changes can be made if nesseccery. Obviously, they must all be grey knights.

2000pts.

Grand Master- 190pts
Master Crafted Nemesis Force Weapon
Psycannon

Retinue of 7 Terminators- 347pts
Psycannon

5 Grey Knights, 1 Justicar- 175pts

5 Grey Knights, 1 Justicar- 175pts

5 Grey Knights, 1 Justicar- 175pts

5 Grey Knights, 1 Justicar- 175pts

4 Grey Knights, 1 Justicar- 200pts
2 Psycannons

4 Grey Knights, 1 Justicar- 200pts
2 Psycannons

Dreadnought- 120pts
Assault Cannon, Missile Launcher

Dreadnought- 120pts
Assault Cannon, Missile Launcher

Dreadnought- 120pts
Assault Cannon, Missile Launcher

Now, I know pure grey knights are not very competetive, but I would like to win some games. The plan is to advance along one flank, phycannons and storm bolters blazing, and assault whatever is on that flank. Kill them, and roll up their entire army.

Obviously, the most dangerous time is during the "advancing to enemy" bit, as my grey knights could easily get splattered by an enemy with lots of shooting. Hopefully the shrouding will keep weapons on the other flank out of range, and I might be able to compete in the shooting phase along the flank I attack, with 3 assault cannons, 3 missile launchers, 6 phycannons, and numerous storm bolters. When I hit combat its party time, as we all know grey knights rule in combat.

The reason ive gone for a 7 terminator retinue is because im sick and tired of people shooting at my termies, and reducing them to only a couple of models before combat. Maybe the extra couple of termies will ensure it reaches the enemy, and can do some real damage..or it might just make it even more of a fire magnet

Anyway, give me your opinions!

Pure Grey Knights composition should have as few powered-armored knights as possible. Take two troops with Psycannons, a Fast Attack squad or two. And then Max-out on terminators and Dreads. Consider a Crusader. as a distraction/ more guns on the table unit.

Ah, I see. Would something like this be better?

Grand Master- 190pts
Master craftted nemesis force weapon
Psycannon

Retinue of 7 Terminators- 347pts
Psycannon

5 Terminators, 1 Brother Captain- 316pts
Nemesis Force Weapons
Psycannon

5 Terminators, 1 Brother Captain- 316pts
Nemesis Force Weapons
Psycannon

5 Grey Knights, 1 Justicar- 225pts
2 Psycannons

5 Grey Knights, 1 Justicar- 225pts
2 Phycannons

Dreadnought- 128pts
Assault Cannon, Missile Launcher, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers.

Dreadnought- 128pts
Assault Cannon, Missile Launcher, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers

Dreadnought- 125pts
Assault Cannon, Missile Launcher, Extra Armour

Only 35 models though...

May I ask, why should you take as few power armour knights as possible? Im not challanging you, just interested to know the reasoning behind it.

I disagree, I think pure grey knight lists should have as many as possible. The reason I say this is because grey knights are expensive, we all know that but their stats make them so. When you provide enough grey knights to have a marine player go model vs model, the grey knights will come out on top.

I think you're first list was actually really good, my only suggestion would be to give one dreadnaut a TL Lascannon just so you have a more reliable form of anti armor.

EDIT: one more thing, make three of your grey knight sqauds fast attack ones. You'll still have the sam number of models but it will prevent your army from getting shot to bits before you get to combat. Also if you want to they can set up normally so you're really not losing anything.

Oh yes, the grey knights may teleport into battle, they dont have to. So, 3 Close combat grey knights squads are in fast attack.

I quite liked the idea of lots of Grey Knights in power armour aswell, been able to advance along one flank and shoot the enemy with psycannons and storm bolters, and then roll up their lines.

Besides, having tonnes of termies and only 12 grey knights just seems..odd.

As the Knights are in fast attack now, should I try and get a teleport homer on the 4th close combat squad? Or is it a waste of points..I know ive always felt uneasy about teleporting..the chance of scattering into an enemy unit or rolling 2 1s of doom and losing the squad..at least the homer will mean I dont scatter. Should I drop the master crafted upgrade from the gand master and get a teleport homer? Expecially as the termies could deep strike in aswell. That would mean I have 4 squads in teleport, and 2 psycannon squads and 3 dreads shooting and advancing, along with 1 close combat squad of grey knights to call in the reinforcements.

When should I consider teleporting the knights and termies? As they could come onto the table at any time, they cant be relied upon, so against assault armies who will close with you in the first couple of turns its probably a bad idea to teleport, while against shooty armies it could be golden, though I would miss out on storm bolter fire in the first couple of turns.

If I deep strike 1 unit, should I try and deep strike as many as possible? Or can 1 teleporting unit be enough to swing the battle in your favour later on? Im trying to balance the "have a decent amoutn of models on table at start" and "teleporting means you dont get shot up, and you get entirly undamaged units on the board later on" lines of thought..

your first list isn't bad at all. heck my deathwing only has 31 models in it at 1850

and i feel you on the small termi-squad thing. i have been running 10 man squads for a long time which usualy catches people by suprise. people i play with regularly find it harder to kill them off than several 5 man squads.

GK are exceedingly sick because they get that S6 power weapon that goes at initiative...really screws over powerfists that have to wait to go last.

making most of your regular GKs fast attack and thus allowing them to deepstike(along with the termies) is a good thing because  it gives you flexability to use the deepstrike if it is needed.

on the dreads, the main adavantage of the las/missle combo is range. the assault cannon is actually going to do a better job of AT work, but with only a 6" move they have to survive to get into 24" range. the AC advantage of course is more shots of rendi love for less points than a las, especially against horde armies. where as the las can reach out and touch somebody but it is only 1 shot. you might want to squeeze some points somewhere to get 1 las arm on one of the dreads  for the random monolith(since all weapons and abilities that add extra dice are negated by it) and such and one other thing a dread must always have is extra armour....don't get stunned and then stand out in the open and take more punishent when you can shuffle behind a building or something till the next turn.

 

May I ask, why should you take as few power armour knights as possible? Im not challanging you, just interested to know the reasoning behind it.

Power armored Grey Knights cost almost as much as a Thousand Son Chaos Space Marine and isn't neerly as survivable. Compounded with the fact that you have to buy a Justicar at twice the cost that give you nothing better than a Str. 6 Power Weapon. Power Armored Grey Knights are just not effective period. They where designed to be a good support unit and they do that rather well. But on there own they die to quickly, and you will never, ever be able to play sufficeint numbers even against Chaos.

So like any effeicent list building you have to look at the Steagths and the weeknesses of your list. The biggest advantage you have is in your Terminators. Terminators are hard for most armies to put down without concerntrating a lot of fire power on them. Plus the fact that they can deepstrike can give you the option of where you attack and how. Deepstriking behind terrain can keep you terminators safe enough to get into combat the next turn.

I have played against a grey knight list many a times, I think what got them in the end is lack of numbers and firepower. The dreadnaughts are a great idea and I'd give 2 at least lascannons. One squad of 10 terminators is hard core and they mess a lot of my stuff up easy!

The regular squads are pretty much there for fire support and some close combat support. I'd probably enlarge some of the squads to 10 men and that should really help. You will need less squads with the same number of troops and save points on justicars. Tool out your hero as much as you can in his retinue, holy relic and such, he is a beast.

So, what im seeing here is that my dreads need extra armour...what about smoke launchers? That way, for 1 turn you can be reletively safe out in the open, and the next turn move behind some terrain. Ill get rid of the master crafted weapon on the grand master, and get extra armour on my dreads. Masted crafted isnt that great I suppose- the lrod and termies are going to kill whatever is in combat with them anyway! I had the assault cannons because I play against tau and dark eldar alot, and assault cannons kill them fast, and its always nice to not face so many rapid firing shots when you get into 12 inch range. While their inclusion is to kill armour, its not supposed to be their only purpose. The missile launchers have a 48 inch range anyway...if the worst comes to the worst I can always fire 3 missiles at the offending tank. Ive never had much of a problem with the assault cannons range before. The idea is, as ive said, to only go up 1 flank, which will mean that their tanks may be on the other flank (as heavy support deploys first), or that only some tanks may be on the flank im attacking. If they are on the flank im attacking, they are near the dreads, and I should be able to hit them with assault cannons. If they are to far away from the dereads, the shrouding of the grey knights will screw them over, and its the grey knights that really need to survive to get into combat...now all I have to do is remember I have the shrouding...for to long have I forgotten and been blown to pieces by tanks 48 inches away!

Mahu, while the Thousand Son space marine is more survivable, he doesnt get the shrouding, which is fairly useful sometimes. He doesnt get true grit, and I dont think he gets a teleport attack option. While the Thousand Son has 2 wounds, he is awful in combat compared to the grey knight, and he is only armed with a bolter, which has its limitation, whiel the grey knight has a storm bolter, so the grey knight can assault after he has shot. The Thousand son cannot harm wraithlords or anything higher than armour value 10, whereas the grey knight can harm up to armour value 12.

You think the justicar is a waste of points? Ok, your essentially paying 25 extra points for a power weapon, which is overpriced. A normal space marine would pay 15 points. But, because of weapon skill 5, the justicar will be better at using that powersword, expecially against other marines. And..its a strength 6 power weapon you get, not a strength 4 power weapon, which will cook marines on 2s, meaning the justiar can normally be expected to kill 2 marines a turn. Whereas a normal marine with  powersword can only  be expected to kill 1 marine a turn.

And, not to mention, to get that powersword, your marine needs to be upgraded to a vet sarge, which costs 15pts, and the power weapon, which also costs 15 points, makes him cost 45pts in total. Thats only 5pts les than a justicar, and the justicar is undeniably better!

Mortetvie, you mentioned tooling up the lord..he already have a 5+ invunerable save, termie armour and a force weapon..what else does he really need?

3 units of 8

2 units of 6 teleporting

2 dreads

deepstriking terms(grand master w/3 grey terms

and every unit w/ max psycannons

provides solid troop base 40 grey knights the only problem is the dreads but keep them in cover a few turns while advancing w/ knights and they may get ignored a teleport homer on one justicar(or two) will help bring in the reserves

 

 

I played 26 terminators and 12 troopers at Adepticon. 9 psycanons, a Grandmaster and Stern . A lot of hacky hard to kill terminators in 2 9 man squads and 1 8 man. The two 6 man Trooper squads were to hold deployment zones and table quarters while providing fire support. The three squads of termies were the offensive punch of the list. The two times I got to play this list were both victories though you do get chewed up and have to accept that your going to lose models.

I?ve never really had any success with the Dreads and I agree with Mahu that troopers while nice are better in large squads. Remember for each squad you take you lose one trooper from the list.  Grey knights are all about the shooting. Picking up hands full of dice and killing your foes with them. IF you?re doing it right there should be very little left to close combat once you get there. Because of that you want all the storm bolters and psycannons you can field.  If your Trooper squads are in CC there is a real problem.  They are just to expensive for it and It's my experience over the last several years playing straight GK's that the Troopers can?t kill fast enough in CC to keep from being eaten by the Power fists.   Termies on the other hand rip things apart in both shooting AND close combat.

I concur. More termies makes it a real pain for the opponent. Either way you cut it though, you are still in the uphill battle with pure GK regardless of what you field. Not the army for the feint of heart! Capt K

Get rid of the assault cannons on the dreads, give them all lascannons, and possibly missile launchers.

You have plenty of strength 6 weapons with longer range for infanty and light tanks, you need long range high strenght for heavy armour, and more than one for reliability.

-Legacy40k