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Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




So I just ran it back through and you are right, with the re-rolling wounds it jumps from 3, to 6. Give it up for Melta Missiles and 275 points.
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So I just ran it back through and you are right, with the re-rolling wounds it jumps from 3, to 6. Give it up for Melta Missiles and 275 points.


What are we arguing about here? I just made a point that bikes are not the weakest unit from our entire roster, which they certainly aren't. And that they can provide reliable anti-horde and anti-tank dmg, which they can.

So especially people starting a custodes army shouldn't be discouraged getting bikes as a blanket statement. Getting two boxes of bikes to get a bike captain, which is our best generic hq anyway, and to have the option to run a 3-5 man squad of bikes is not a bad thing.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Jet bikes are one of our better units really. But the forge world dread kinda suppress army building at a competitive level.
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






no our weakest unit are spear guard.
45pts for a 3 wound 2/4+ model with 3 str 6 ap3 Dd3 attacks and a master crafted bolter.

135pts for a unit of 3 that does very little damage and dies on average to 2 buffed lazer chickens or a plague burst crawler in one shooting phase.

if they were 120pts they would be competitive, but reducing our points by that much would make us oppressive to anything but competitive builds.

As is, giving them +1 wound is useless, but sweeping attack profile (double attacks for 1 damage) and an extra shot (assault 3) would make them worth the points.

Give swords +1 attack and make them pistol 4. Guardians are now fixed.

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Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





 Eihnlazer wrote:
no our weakest unit are spear guard.
45pts for a 3 wound 2/4+ model with 3 str 6 ap3 Dd3 attacks and a master crafted bolter.

135pts for a unit of 3 that does very little damage and dies on average to 2 buffed lazer chickens or a plague burst crawler in one shooting phase.

if they were 120pts they would be competitive, but reducing our points by that much would make us oppressive to anything but competitive builds.

As is, giving them +1 wound is useless, but sweeping attack profile (double attacks for 1 damage) and an extra shot (assault 3) would make them worth the points.

Give swords +1 attack and make them pistol 4. Guardians are now fixed.


Would giving the basic infantry a sweeping attack even if it was much weaker be too strong? In theory the one weakness custodies has is being unable to bitchslap a horde all at once while they can stab most elites in the face enough times to kill them.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




 Eihnlazer wrote:
no our weakest unit are spear guard.
45pts for a 3 wound 2/4+ model with 3 str 6 ap3 Dd3 attacks and a master crafted bolter.

135pts for a unit of 3 that does very little damage and dies on average to 2 buffed lazer chickens or a plague burst crawler in one shooting phase.

if they were 120pts they would be competitive, but reducing our points by that much would make us oppressive to anything but competitive builds.

As is, giving them +1 wound is useless, but sweeping attack profile (double attacks for 1 damage) and an extra shot (assault 3) would make them worth the points.

Give swords +1 attack and make them pistol 4. Guardians are now fixed.


I only disagree that giving our Infantry +1 wound would be useless. I think it's still a needed boost in survivability. Not against robo chickens or dark lances sure, but there are enough flat dmg3 weapons in the game that hurt us right now.
Completely agree on the sweeping profile on the spears...and the normal profile needs dmg2
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Giving our basic troop model attack profiles that until now have only been given to major characters or named models seems like a bad idea. I feel like +1 wound and making the damage of spears and swords a flat 2 would be amazing. Then again, what if Axes were D3+1? So you could never do less than spears or swords.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/03 00:19:03


 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench




Bath

some food for thought about our future codex:

given the number of "limited" releases with only a single HQ unit to accompany the release, i'd wager we'd also only get a single HQ unit, which i HOPE is a sisters HQ unit (maybe a sister HQ that can be made into a "sisters character" in the elite slot, al la the Vexilus preator, or a marine Apothecary or Techmarine).

however, they have made a sustained effort to "level up" the codex's, by improving lesser used units in most of them so all have a viable role in the army. I'd say we'd most likely see efforts focused on the Wardens, given they are a comparatively poor choice in a crowded Elites section, and maybe the plastic comptemptor dread (same basic problem, its not "bad", theirs just better choices for elites).

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




xerxeskingofking wrote:
some food for thought about our future codex:

given the number of "limited" releases with only a single HQ unit to accompany the release, i'd wager we'd also only get a single HQ unit, which i HOPE is a sisters HQ unit (maybe a sister HQ that can be made into a "sisters character" in the elite slot, al la the Vexilus preator, or a marine Apothecary or Techmarine).

however, they have made a sustained effort to "level up" the codex's, by improving lesser used units in most of them so all have a viable role in the army. I'd say we'd most likely see efforts focused on the Wardens, given they are a comparatively poor choice in a crowded Elites section, and maybe the plastic comptemptor dread (same basic problem, its not "bad", theirs just better choices for elites).


I agree, though I am pessimistic about the sisters hq. I'd like to see one for sure, but I'm not sure GW is going to deliver.
Also agree on the wardens. This is just my wild guess, but since fight last abiltites are the new rage, I think it's not unlikely that wardens are going to get some fight last ability. Maybe even similar to but a bit more powerful/reliable than the incubi fight last.
If they give some attention to Contemptor dreads, my guess is that they'll provide some points upgrades/strats which will also work with the forgeworld Contemptors. Those sell like hot cakes anyway, but they'll never include them in the codex because FW.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




If everyone has a "fight last" ability, then Wardens still lose to most of those units. We need to give Wardens something to shore up our weaknesses. Either give them anti-psyker abilities, ( or make Sisters troops in their own detachment) or give them a great overwatch ability. Overwatch on 2+ with a sort of Heroic Intervention overwatch. The ability to overwatch when not being the unit selected in the charge.
   
Made in eu
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If everyone has a "fight last" ability, then Wardens still lose to most of those units. We need to give Wardens something to shore up our weaknesses. Either give them anti-psyker abilities, ( or make Sisters troops in their own detachment) or give them a great overwatch ability. Overwatch on 2+ with a sort of Heroic Intervention overwatch. The ability to overwatch when not being the unit selected in the charge.


I don't get your point. Not every unit in the game has a fight last ability.

2+ overwatch is ridiculous.

Edit: the "heroic intervention overwatch" is a cool concept though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/06 23:57:37


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Excuse me, I apologize, if "Everyone = Factions" has a fight last, obviously not every model in the game has one.

Yes, +2 Overwatch is silly, but the Custodes need something to give them top spot on defensive ranking.

I honestly can't understand why Overwatch was always limited to the selected units, like all the other units just stand around, not seeing anything.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Excuse me, I apologize, if "Everyone = Factions" has a fight last, obviously not every model in the game has one.

Yes, +2 Overwatch is silly, but the Custodes need something to give them top spot on defensive ranking.

I honestly can't understand why Overwatch was always limited to the selected units, like all the other units just stand around, not seeing anything.


Sry I misunderstood your point. My point is just that not having fight last is a big weakness of the custodes in 9th that needs addressing, hence why I just made a wild guess that maybe GW will tack on fight last on wardens in some form to kill two birds with one stone: giving custodes fight last and making wardens useful...maybe, hopefully.
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






If Custodes don't get a very strong defense against MW, the army is bottom tier.

I mean just look... MW are popping up EVERYWHERE. GK/1kSons will get them very soon. Orks get 2,5avg on charging and have bomb squigs.
You get to lose 1/3 of your squad because you got charged. Without any defense. Without any save.54 pts down the drain and thats before the fight happens.
If the proliferation of MWs continues, Custodes are in deep, deep trouble if no defences against that type of damage shows up.

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 Thairne wrote:
If Custodes don't get a very strong defense against MW, the army is bottom tier.

I mean just look... MW are popping up EVERYWHERE. GK/1kSons will get them very soon. Orks get 2,5avg on charging and have bomb squigs.
You get to lose 1/3 of your squad because you got charged. Without any defense. Without any save.54 pts down the drain and thats before the fight happens.
If the proliferation of MWs continues, Custodes are in deep, deep trouble if no defences against that type of damage shows up.


So, aegis of the emperor bumped up to a 5+ feelnopain against all mortal wounds, not only in the psychic phase?
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Tiberias wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
If Custodes don't get a very strong defense against MW, the army is bottom tier.

I mean just look... MW are popping up EVERYWHERE. GK/1kSons will get them very soon. Orks get 2,5avg on charging and have bomb squigs.
You get to lose 1/3 of your squad because you got charged. Without any defense. Without any save.54 pts down the drain and thats before the fight happens.
If the proliferation of MWs continues, Custodes are in deep, deep trouble if no defences against that type of damage shows up.


So, aegis of the emperor bumped up to a 5+ feelnopain against all mortal wounds, not only in the psychic phase?


It's a start. If we're supposed to be mega tough but weak to psykers, specifically, they could probably leave Aegis as a 6+++ for the psychic phase and add a special rule that we can use our invuln against MW outside the psychic phase.
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench




Bath

Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
 Thairne wrote:
If Custodes don't get a very strong defense against MW, the army is bottom tier.

I mean just look... MW are popping up EVERYWHERE. GK/1kSons will get them very soon. Orks get 2,5avg on charging and have bomb squigs.
You get to lose 1/3 of your squad because you got charged. Without any defense. Without any save.54 pts down the drain and thats before the fight happens.
If the proliferation of MWs continues, Custodes are in deep, deep trouble if no defences against that type of damage shows up.


So, aegis of the emperor bumped up to a 5+ feelnopain against all mortal wounds, not only in the psychic phase?


It's a start. If we're supposed to be mega tough but weak to psykers, specifically, they could probably leave Aegis as a 6+++ for the psychic phase and add a special rule that we can use our invuln against MW outside the psychic phase.


see, i;m not opposed to expanding our 5+++ FNP saves to all MWs, but i do feel that the custodes, as a whole, should be comparatively vulnerable to MWs, and it should be a effecient method of hurting us, compared to just swamping us in conventional attacks. every army should have a weakness like that, something thats just good against them. horde armies should be cleared by massed small arms, Ours should be either our lack of numbers leading to risk of swamping, OR being hit by incredibley powerful weapons (ie MW).

and, lets face it, GK and Tsons are still pretty poorly proforming armies that, even if they get a significant boost, would be just "Middling" armies. id be happy with them getting that boost. I dont think they will take them down the "straight MW spam" route, anyway, Apart form anything else, they slapped the pair of them with a rules change intended purely to reduce MW spam at the start of 9th, it would be just silly to then un-patch the patch to boost them agian)

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




I would trade relative immunity from S3 and below weapons if we kept our weakness to MWs. The ability to spam weak attacks is rapidly becomming uncontrollable in 9th, and when we are facing off against 9th edition's versions of Cultist or BL bombs, I don't want to start eating 40-60 S3 attacks for less than the cost of my unit of Shield Guard.

I say just give us +1 wounds across the board, Fixed damage weapons, and make a unit that gives a -1 damage aura, to zero. That way you have to hit us with something D6 or better if you want to actually kill us, and those aren't easy to spam.

We shouldn't be as powerful as the fluff makes us, but we shouldn't be dropping to las or autogun fire either.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




At the Gates of Azyr

Quick question about the Telemon. If you give the Telemon Eternal Penitent and double caestus, does it get 6 attacks or 7?
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench




Bath

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:
Quick question about the Telemon. If you give the Telemon Eternal Penitent and double caestus, does it get 6 attacks or 7?


7. 4 base, upped to 5 by penitent, then two bonus attacks from its fists.

At least that is how I'd read it, but i am a generous fellow


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/17 19:34:37


Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




xerxeskingofking wrote:
 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:
Quick question about the Telemon. If you give the Telemon Eternal Penitent and double caestus, does it get 6 attacks or 7?


7. 4 base, upped to 5 by penitent, then two bonus attacks from its fists.

At least that is how I'd read it, but i am a generous fellow




Correct. 7 attacks with double fists and eternal penitent.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Beaverton OR

Does anyone have any news/rumors/theories as to when we might get an updated codex? None of my usual sources have us anywhere in the pipeline :-(
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench




Bath

leerm02 wrote:
Does anyone have any news/rumors/theories as to when we might get an updated codex? None of my usual sources have us anywhere in the pipeline :-(


When? No, not a clue. We're at least 6-8 months out, given the number of known to be coming releases (grey knights, tsons, black templars, orks. Possibly chaos deamons as well). Beyond that I have no idea

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




xerxeskingofking wrote:
leerm02 wrote:
Does anyone have any news/rumors/theories as to when we might get an updated codex? None of my usual sources have us anywhere in the pipeline :-(


When? No, not a clue. We're at least 6-8 months out, given the number of known to be coming releases (grey knights, tsons, black templars, orks. Possibly chaos deamons as well). Beyond that I have no idea


If they get back up to their original goal of releasing 2 Codices per month (what they meant to be doing this whole time), we could potentially be sooner, but otherwise yeah this is what I've been hearing on the rumor mill too.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Beaverton OR

Ugh. Okay, well, it's what I figured. :-(
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




leerm02 wrote:
Does anyone have any news/rumors/theories as to when we might get an updated codex? None of my usual sources have us anywhere in the pipeline :-(


Rumors?

Well I know a guy who has a line to GW who said he's pretty sure Custodes are gonna get rebranded into Talons, and a few sisters kits added. But that this means they will be pretty late in the release cycle.
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






So just went 3/3 at the Lone Star Open.

I took the Emissaries Imperatus list which was specced into drukari/admech and didnt end up playing a single one of such armies .............

I also got lucky enough to never bump into any Death Guard players (which made up like 6% of the field).

Round 1 was goff boy spam with Ghaz. Mission was one of the Domination missions (Hold 2, Hold 3, Hold more).
Bad matchup on that. At the end of the game he had 20 grots, and 2 weirdboyz left on the table but he had held me to 25 on primary and 8 on ROD. Looking back I should have taken No Prisoners instead of ROD. Would have picked me up 4 or 5 more points.
I had a bit of bad luck turn 1 as well, loosing my biker captain to a squad of boyz. To be fair, he did spend 6 CP to double attack in both his turn and mine.

Round 2 was up against SoB. This was a very close game and came down to the wire. Once again I rolled bad on my bike captain and lost him turn 1. At the end of the game i didnt have enough guys left to score my priority objective and i lost by 3 points. Game would have been a draw (which incidentally also knocked me down to second overall custodes player). 88-85 good game.

Round 3 was up against Tau. He played pure T'au cept and had a very old school (yet powerful) 9 broadside, 1 riptide, ton of drones style list with some pathfinder squads and some breachers in a devilfish. He reserved the devilfish and turtled up, hoping he could wipe out my tanks before moving upfield. Unfortunately I didnt give him the chance, blazing upfield and nuking all his infantry early. With no obsec units on objectives I completely shut out his primary, only giving up 15 points the whole game. He did get me down to almost no units left at the end, but his points totals were almost completely on his secondaries so I got the win.

DAY 2

Round 4 had me up against a horrible match with Nightbringer, Void-dragon, and a Vault, plus a ton of Obsec scarabs with a pregame move. To make things worse it was the Scouring mission. There was basically no way I could have won, barring my opponent rolling real badly. I did however get close. I just failed a few too many wound rolls with my tanks against the C'tans, letting the nightbringer live until the last turn of the game when it no longer mattered and having the Void dragon still at full health. After eating 22 C'tan powers I was basically tabled and had very little primary. Bad game for me.....

Round 5 is where things starting getting alot better though. Matched up against White Scars. He did bring 20 Van Vets, bladeguard K'ssarro, 2 volkite contemptors, 1 smash chaplain, and a second bufflain to give one of the contemptors +1 to wound. He didnt have much obsec though, with only 2 Infiltrator squads so I knew what I had to do.
By turn 3 he had no more obsec or bladeguard and I had reduced all the VanVet squads to 3 or less models cept for one (he combat squaded into 4-5mans). The contemptors did work to me, but I took his backfield with my venetari and bike captain and held my side of the table for the win.

Round 6 was up against IG. My experience with IG is if they spam tank commanders im in for a rough time. Kris did take 2 of those and the full payload manticore, but the rest of his list was fairly different. He had 2 valkries full of 5 man scion squads, a primaris psycher and a weirdvane psycher, 2 units of infantry with chimeras, a squadron of 2 plasma russ's, and the little Self Destruct tank from FW. Never seen one of those in action yet so it was fun. I knew that the scions were gonna give him max secondaries with ROD and BEL unless I could take out the Valks, but unfortunately he got first turn so that was out of the question. I had hid well so he was only able to do 3 wounds to one of my tanks with his manticore. Good start got even better when my bike captain earned his title of captain Unkillable. The man tanked 80% of his armies shooting on turn 2 and only took 1 damage. My turn 2 had me blow him off all his objectives. I basically just stuck to that plan, never letting him get to the midfield objectives, protecting mine, and shooting/charging onto his keeping him at 20 on primary by the end of the game. I do have to admit, this win was mostly due to his bad luck with shooting at my captain. He spent far too much firepower into him when he could have removed my other infantry much easier, which would have also allowed him to score more primary points.



Overall on the tourny, I felt fine about my list. I know its an auto loss against death guard, but I was hoping to not run into any due to the prevelance of admech and drukari. Turns out I didnt play any but just for blind luck. I also had almost no chance to win the matchup against the necrons or orks. However necrons dont all spam Ctans, and dont make up a large amount of the playerbase, and Orks are fixing to be an entire different army so I cant comment much on them. So really It just game down to the game with SoB. I did underestimate how much damage dominions could do with their blessed bolts (did 18 mortals to my shield guard over 3 turns), and had bad luck with my captain. I think if the captain had lived even one more turn I could have won the game, but hard to say for sure. It was a fun game though so I wont complain.

I had 4 high scoring games though so my average score was pretty good which is gonna net me alot of points for the faction leaderboard. Goal Achieved and another great event.

I personally liked the way the terrain was handled with the players setting it alternatingly. Not everyone did, but I think it adds another aspect of player skill to the game which was nice and freshened things up.

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Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

Loss of 'core' for Balastarii, and Dragoons
Lucius dogma only applies if the unit isn't in cover,
Acquision at any cost is 1/game requiring the unit to be wholly within 6 of an objective.
An enriched rounds going to 2cp if the unit is 11+ models, and only auto wounding on 5s.
Galvanic Volleys goes to heavy 3, instead of RF2.

Seems like a lot of those changes will help a little when it comes to the admech matchup. Telemons will last longer vs all the massed lascannons, and Shield Guard might have a chance to survive infantry.

Still gonna have to hide with cover to have any luck i suppose.

Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in de
Mysterious Techpriest






The galvanic volley fire actually is a sidegrade in disguise.
You could reach out to 24" with 80 shots, but now you can get 60 at 40" and rangers usuall dont want to get close enough. And yes, now moving and shooting is a thing of the past too with those.

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Report bugs here:
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Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

The telemon dreadnought. What is the usual load out on it? I see a lot of custodies take it. It is sturdy. But I do not see what it's guns should be.

   
 
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