Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So is anyone worried about the new Acro Flaggelants and their 90 S5 attacks for 155points? I mean, melee is getting bonkers at this point. When our codex rolls around we might be slightly broken.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So is anyone worried about the new Acro Flaggelants and their 90 S5 attacks for 155points? I mean, melee is getting bonkers at this point. When our codex rolls around we might be slightly broken.

Where did you get any of these numbers?

 MinMax wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So is anyone worried about the new Acro Flaggelants and their 90 S5 attacks for 155points? I mean, melee is getting bonkers at this point. When our codex rolls around we might be slightly broken.

Where did you get any of these numbers?

They get 2 attacks base, a war hymn gives them +1 attack and their weapons give them two attacks per attack which can be boosted to 3 with a stratagem.

So you're getting 3x3 S5 attacks per model in a 10 man unit. They are a blender.

Regarding the arco flaggelants with a bazillion attacks: against such a unit I think it's really important to have the emperors auspice strat ready.
If you can turn off their full re-rolls to hit, you severely dampen their damage output. If they were to charge our terminators for example and you also throw in auramite and adamantium, I think they statistically only kill about one terminator.

Edit: I think they would also bounce off against a Galatus dreadnought pretty hard, given you have the emperors auspice strat ready. That - 1 to hit from the Galatus shield comes in handy here.
So aiming to throw those units against the flaggelants, might be a decent way to deal with them in melee. Most efficient way is still probably shooting them off the board with venatari or bikes.

Tiberias wrote:
Regarding the arco flaggelants with a bazillion attacks: against such a unit I think it's really important to have the emperors auspice strat ready.
If you can turn off their full re-rolls to hit, you severely dampen their damage output. If they were to charge our terminators for example and you also throw in auramite and adamantium, I think they statistically only kill about one terminator.

Just gotta decide if 3CP is worth saving 2 terminators.

Edit: I think they would also bounce off against a Galatus dreadnought pretty hard, given you have the emperors auspice strat ready.

Even without the strat, they'd only do 4 wounds to it, with the strat it'd be about 3 wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tiberias wrote:
So aiming to throw those units against the flaggelants, might be a decent way to deal with them in melee. Most efficient way is still probably shooting them off the board with venatari or bikes.

Blow open their transport with the telemon and then mince them with SAF, theoretically easy.

 Thairne wrote:
The galvanic volley fire actually is a sidegrade in disguise.
You could reach out to 24" with 80 shots, but now you can get 60 at 40" and rangers usuall dont want to get close enough. And yes, now moving and shooting is a thing of the past too with those.

I agree, sidegrade is a fair statement. But i'd hope that most tables have enough terrain to not let them sit and fire from 40 away without some kind of terrain getting in the way.

 Niiai wrote:
The telemon dreadnought. What is the usual load out on it? I see a lot of custodies take it. It is sturdy. But I do not see what it's guns should be.

i think the general consensus is double storm cannon (the super assault cannon one) over the autocannon one, as if gives us some of our fairly limited ranged AT options. storm cannon and fist (ie "classic SM dread" style) is quite popular as well for versatility.

Don't they also get a 5 pt upgrade for one of the models to be S6 with 6 attacks? Also, each of their flail attacks count as 2 hits (actually unsure if that rule survived from 8th?) but I do know if that is what a 155 points and a few CP buys an all out melee unit, than I want some of that for our boys.

 Niiai wrote:
The telemon dreadnought. What is the usual load out on it? I see a lot of custodies take it. It is sturdy. But I do not see what it's guns should be.

I play my Telemons with fists and accelerators. The storm cannon is not really needed in the sisters and marine melta meta, most people don't bring many tanks. if you know you're gonna play against a lot of vehilces it might be worth it though.

The Storm cannon is useful in picking off heavy targets at range, where as the Accelerator only beats the storm in picking off heavy infantry at range. Which if you are playing ranged telemon style, wouldn't it just be better with two guns and no fists? Fists are only good if you intend on going up against T8 units or super heavy units like monsters, DPs, or morty. Just go dual Accelerators for maximum dakka against the current meta.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The Storm cannon is useful in picking off heavy targets at range, where as the Accelerator only beats the storm in picking off heavy infantry at range. Which if you are playing ranged telemon style, wouldn't it just be better with two guns and no fists? Fists are only good if you intend on going up against T8 units or super heavy units like monsters, DPs, or morty. Just go dual Accelerators for maximum dakka against the current meta.

It depends on how you want to utilize the telemon. If you want it as a back field firing platform then yes, double shooting weapon is the way to go.
If you want an anchor for you list that walks down the midfield along with your shield guard, then fist/gun is the way to go imo.

Tiberias wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The Storm cannon is useful in picking off heavy targets at range, where as the Accelerator only beats the storm in picking off heavy infantry at range. Which if you are playing ranged telemon style, wouldn't it just be better with two guns and no fists? Fists are only good if you intend on going up against T8 units or super heavy units like monsters, DPs, or morty. Just go dual Accelerators for maximum dakka against the current meta.

It depends on how you want to utilize the telemon. If you want it as a back field firing platform then yes, double shooting weapon is the way to go.
If you want an anchor for you list that walks down the midfield along with your shield guard, then fist/gun is the way to go imo.

You can also get the problem that, because we're such a low model count army, it's hard to screen your telemon making him liable to get locked in cc.

If your Telemon isn't screened properly, or you don't have the requisite screening units, then yes, you have that concern. But if you bring a telemon onto the field, pretty much every faction you may face is going to try and focus it down. I think for the majority of factions though, killing it in melee is a bad trade. Even without the fists it's still hitting on 2s with a S8 attack 5 times.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If your Telemon isn't screened properly, or you don't have the requisite screening units, then yes, you have that concern. But if you bring a telemon onto the field, pretty much every faction you may face is going to try and focus it down. I think for the majority of factions though, killing it in melee is a bad trade. Even without the fists it's still hitting on 2s with a S8 attack 5 times.

At AP0 D1.

If a squad of five Intercessors charge it, it would take nine rounds of combat to kill them all, solely from the Telemon's melee, at least.

 JNAProductions wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If your Telemon isn't screened properly, or you don't have the requisite screening units, then yes, you have that concern. But if you bring a telemon onto the field, pretty much every faction you may face is going to try and focus it down. I think for the majority of factions though, killing it in melee is a bad trade. Even without the fists it's still hitting on 2s with a S8 attack 5 times.

At AP0 D1.

If a squad of five Intercessors charge it, it would take nine rounds of combat to kill them all, solely from the Telemon's melee, at least.

While the point stands, I think just shooting into combat each battle round speeds it up considerably for the Telemon.

That was my point. Also, If a squad of intercessors is tying up your 400pt unit, you have failed to properly screen that unit. I know we don't have many units to spare, but if you have left your dakka bot alone in the middle of the board within charge range of a squad of cheap infantry, that's on you.

While I get your point and I agree, a telemon is not 400points. It's 310 at its most expensive configuration.
I think that is also why people like the fist/gun configuration especially for the midfield, because it makes the telemon a threat everywhere. And let's be honest, the Telemon has turned into our best distraction carnifex...I'm always really happy when my opponent uses most of his firepower to try to bring down my shadowkeepers telemon (which often doesn't even work), leaving my other assets relatively safe. He mainly needs to be tough and scary imo.

I'm attending the GW open in New Orleans come October and plan on shaking things up.

Due to the way terrain is going to be, I'm expecting basically no shooting available to whoever goes first. This means fast armies and melee armies should have a huge advantage. The lack of difficult terrain on the tables also incentives this.

I'm going to run Dread Host.

I know, mad.

I won't be spamming terminators though, only bringing one brick of aquilon. This is where I'd like to hear you guys opinion.

5 aquillons/daggers, plus a galatus is my optional stuff. What would you swap out and why. Note the army must be full custodes.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I'm attending the GW open in New Orleans come October and plan on shaking things up.

Due to the way terrain is going to be, I'm expecting basically no shooting available to whoever goes first. This means fast armies and melee armies should have a huge advantage. The lack of difficult terrain on the tables also incentives this.

I'm going to run Dread Host.

I know, mad.

I won't be spamming terminators though, only bringing one brick of aquilon. This is where I'd like to hear you guys opinion.

5 aquillons/daggers, plus a galatus is my optional stuff. What would you swap out and why. Note the army must be full custodes.

I wouldn't swap. For Dread Host that's a great setup. The only thing to consider is that you might get more performance out of Allarus versus Death Guard but only if they don't run Deathshroud since you could character snipe on landing and the 1D3 damage will technically average more than the flat 2 due to their -1 damage rule. Other than that, those are exactly the two units you want to take.

Maybe consider a Culexus for the fight last aura to protect you from people charging the Terminators/Dread. You can also use it if the Culexus charges to shut off peoples' ability to use Counter-Offensive.

Why take a Culexus for their cost, and CP when you can just pop a triple squad of bolter sisters for basically twice the cost, way more usefulness, and none of the CP cost?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Why take a Culexus for their cost, and CP when you can just pop a triple squad of bolter sisters for basically twice the cost, way more usefulness, and none of the CP cost?

Because the Culexus has a fight last aura. That's the reason you take him, not any psychic shut down power.

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Why take a Culexus for their cost, and CP when you can just pop a triple squad of bolter sisters for basically twice the cost, way more usefulness, and none of the CP cost?

Because the Culexus has a fight last aura. That's the reason you take him, not any psychic shut down power.

So I guess if you are willing to blow 2 CP for the chance to land 4 S4 AP0 D1 attacks first, sure. I'd rather take the sister's pysker targeting shooting attacks. To each their own.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Audustum wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Why take a Culexus for their cost, and CP when you can just pop a triple squad of bolter sisters for basically twice the cost, way more usefulness, and none of the CP cost?

Because the Culexus has a fight last aura. That's the reason you take him, not any psychic shut down power.

So I guess if you are willing to blow 2 CP for the chance to land 4 S4 AP0 D1 attacks first, sure. I'd rather take the sister's pysker targeting shooting attacks. To each their own.

?

X's are Custodes infantry. Y is the Culexus.

XYX
XXX

There. You fight last all enemies around the Culexus and activate your Custodes infantry first to smash them. When you have multiple squads you need the fight last to force them to lowest priority so you aren't always trading alternations with 'always fights first' or enemies using the counter-offensive stratagem (and you get to swing with everything first in prolonged engagements).

Just as a trivia, the Culexus's attacks are also AP -infinite- because they do not allow armor saves in melee.

I agree the Culexus is a pretty good addon for Dread host. I just cant find 100pts for him. Assasins are all grossly overpointed atm compared to 9th codex characters.


I'll get my stuff painted up and get some test games in and let you know if I stick with it.

So im just starting custodes and cant be bothered to read 200pages of stuff (over multipul editions and faqs)

so a question why are people giving storm shields to gaurd as the invun dosent get improved and you loss range and damage in shooting plus strength and damage in melee all you gain is a 1+armour save which is ok but which seems like a weak swap to me, so any guidence.

Skullhammer wrote:
So im just starting custodes and cant be bothered to read 200pages of stuff (over multipul editions and faqs)

so a question why are people giving storm shields to gaurd as the invun dosent get improved and you loss range and damage in shooting plus strength and damage in melee all you gain is a 1+armour save which is ok but which seems like a weak swap to me, so any guidence.

Storm Shields are now +1 to Armor save rolls, and 4+ Invuln. So the invuln is improved to a 3+. Custodes are one of the few that can do that.

Anyone taken a look at the new GK/1kSons stuff? Anyone wanna take a crack at formulating a method of countering them in the meanwhile before our codex? I'm kinda leaning more towards heavy on the max shield guardian squads and bikes.

Their new rules that make their buffs only target the casting unit is huge in my way of thinking, meaning we don't need to fear their buff bot characters anymore. But their strike squads with swords and hammerhand is now gonna be hard to counter. We need flat 2 damage weapons, STAT.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Skullhammer wrote:
So im just starting custodes and cant be bothered to read 200pages of stuff (over multipul editions and faqs)

so a question why are people giving storm shields to gaurd as the invun dosent get improved and you loss range and damage in shooting plus strength and damage in melee all you gain is a 1+armour save which is ok but which seems like a weak swap to me, so any guidence

.

Storm Shields are now +1 to Armor save rolls, and 4+ Invuln. So the invuln is improved to a 3+. Custodes are one of the few that can do that.

Invuns arnt armour saves so unless it specifies invuns are improved thats a strech and a half to my mind. Im sure theres been a lot of debate about this but i wont play it that way, so unless your streching shields really dont seem worth it.

Shields give you a 4+ invuln, then the custodes faction trait pushes it to a 3++. The shield also gives you +1 to armor saves. So guardians with shields are 1+/3++

Does anyone feel like souping in GK might be a major success for us? Shores up two of our big weaknesses if we just drop a few GK HQs or a couple Strike Squads into our mix. Solves the Psyker problem, and gives us some cheaper wounds that can dish our some really good shooting.