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 Jidmah wrote:
It's kind of insane how much cheaper and better all the buggies have gotten. I'll probably have both spare CPs and points despite running the same list.

Can't wait to see what they have done with the mek speshul, scrap jet, squig buggy and KMB definitely look vicious, SJD has pretty much stayed the same.
With warbikers and koptas also getting huge boosts, outrider detachments are looking veeery tempting.
The only question remaining is what clan to pick - but considering how meh all of them have become, might as well go back to blood axes, if only for the extra CP.

I just hope to mork that they don't force them to act as a single unit.

On the topic of stratagems, there is little surprise to me here. In 9th edition codices stratagems that provide damage buffs and other no-brainer stratagems all tend to be 2CP, 1CP tends to be reserved for situational, stratagems, unit specific ones or otherwise limited stratagems.
And yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but they aren't the norm.

I definitely prefer stratagems giving you niche uses or flexibility over "do damage twice" and having strengths built into profiles.

Also hard agree on buggies, bikes, and koptas. I think some derivative of the buggy list with kommandoz and stormboyz will still have legs. In general I feel that if you want to do any shooting now, its gotta be on a vehicle. Lootas are still fragile and 17PPM and youre stuck taking a 17PPM big shoota or KMB.

I'm still thinking about what to do with our troop situation. Big mobs feel bad with no morale protection. Maybe a return of the BW/Trukk playstyle.

I'm curious to see what the kustom jobs look like, if we can still take sparkly bitz for the +1 to hit then kans with rokkits or dreads with rokkits and KMB's are going to look very interesting. Also the punishment the wazbom blastajet can throw out now looks amazing, and at bs4 too

In general I think the overall power level of the orks will hinge on two pieces of info we don't have yet:

1) Do Dakka weapons count as Assault weapons? (mostly this affects whether Evil Sunz will be really good or quite trash)

2) How do Specialist Mobs actually work? How are they limited? it kind of seems like since theyre included with the list of characters who don't take away your clan rules that Specialist Mobs will replace <Clan> but otherwise not cost points or be limtied, which would be EXTREMELY EXTREMELY STRONG.

if you were able to say "my <clan> is Goffs, so thats all these big 30-blocks of boyz, all these melee units...Oh, but these Tankbustas are Boom Boyz, and these burna boyz are pyromaniacs, etc etc" or "Clan=Freebootas, but all the boyz are Trukk Boyz"

Stratagems are absolutely a weak point. it seems to me the best strategy is just to build "CP spenders" into the list - a 10-man unit of Flash Gitz, a 10-man unit of Meganobz, a KFF mek you're just going to use the KFF booster strat on every turn, units of 10 grots whose only goal is to sneak up behind a mid-board ruin out of true LOS to try and get off good Grot Shields, etc.

but the core stats of our gak are SOLID. Even units like Burna Boyz, which were trash before, I'm looking at like "a full-strength flamer for 11pts in an army with cheap open topped transports? .....OK!" bonebreakas with T8 3+ and 6+D6 deffrolla attacks for 175pts? A warboss in mega armor with 2+ 5++ with effectively a no-minus-to-hit power klaw for 115pts? 40pt killa kanz with D3 shot blast rokkit launchas? 10pt Kommandos with 3+sv in light cover and real infiltrate? You have my attention, codex orks.

 Dendarien wrote:
I'm still thinking about what to do with our troop situation. Big mobs feel bad with no morale protection. Maybe a return of the BW/Trukk playstyle.

Since there is no more advantage in running 30 boyz, most people probably won't - just like in all edition prior to 8th. I'm fairly sure that the sweet spot isn't 20 anymore, but someone will math out the optimal amount of boyz compared to how many you lose to more. Personally, if feel like beast snagga boyz are rather powerful, so 220 for a unit that can actually flip objectives and some powerful stratagem support seems like a good deal. Hordes are probably going to rely on multiple smaller units On a budget, shoota boyz camping out with a rokkit might be decent, gretchin remain the "don't have points for anything else" option.

Something positive I noticed is that dread saws and kan weapons were scrapped. Felt bad to have models suddenly have different rules after you spend much time to collect the right bits for aestetic reasons.

I'm looking into doing squads of 10 Boyz/Snaggas. Maybe squads of 15 at a push. Having big squads is absolutely pointless now that all the bonuses for large units have been removed. I think Goffs and running as many small squads of Boyz/kommandos as possible is a viable tactic. Even if you lose a couple of squads of boyz there will be quite a few left to get into combat.

Goffs with exploding sixes in combat which has been improved vastly is a real boon for the Boyz in my opinion. Blobs of 30 are worthless now however.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Stratagems are absolutely a weak point. it seems to me the best strategy is just to build "CP spenders" into the list - a 10-man unit of Flash Gitz, a 10-man unit of Meganobz, a KFF mek you're just going to use the KFF booster strat on every turn, units of 10 grots whose only goal is to sneak up behind a mid-board ruin out of true LOS to try and get off good Grot Shields, etc.

I disagree - the stratagems look a lot like what DG got and there it's usually better to use more 1CP stratagems and only burn through 2CP when you get a significant advantage from it.

 kingbbobb wrote:

i totally missed the cloud of smoke ability xD

Sometimes it's good to take a minute and carefully read the entire unit entry before you start complaining.

Well, now I ´m totally confused. So the Codex alone will be available after 15th August. Oficially confirmed. This is super stupid. Scalpels likes it. Maybe GW has its own scalpel division and makes extra money on reselling its own stuff on ebay or idontknow…

They've literally said from the moment the Beast Snaggas box was originally announced that it would come with a special cover version of the codex and that the standalone codex would release at a later point.

So Interesting enough, the Kill Rig and Hunta Rig, if they wound a Flyer with their Harpoon and position themselves correctly, (behind the flyer) they auto kill it next movement phase. You have 8 inches to work with, but you can prevent them from moving more then 12 inches from you, which will kill them when they fail their 20 inch minimum.

Also of Note, Two such wagons can immobilize any vehicle or monster if you have one on each side and they both wound with their harpoons. As unlikely as it is, it is funny to picture two of them holding Morty back from crashing into something valuable.

Of additional note, is how Cheap a lot of our models are becoming, Killa Kanz going to 40 points with any loadout is amazing and Deff Dreads dropping to 85 with quad Klaw loadout will be nice. Meks being able to apply kustom jobs through an Action if they are near a Mek Workshop without impairing the vehicle is also interesting.

 the_scotsman wrote:
but the core stats of our gak are SOLID. Even units like Burna Boyz, which were trash before, I'm looking at like "a full-strength flamer for 11pts in an army with cheap open topped transports? .....OK!" bonebreakas with T8 3+ and 6+D6 deffrolla attacks for 175pts? A warboss in mega armor with 2+ 5++ with effectively a no-minus-to-hit power klaw for 115pts? 40pt killa kanz with D3 shot blast rokkit launchas? 10pt Kommandos with 3+sv in light cover and real infiltrate? You have my attention, codex orks.

Yeah I am really looking forward to no more d3 Burna Boyz and Bonebreakas becoming even more fun. Deffguns being Dakka 3+2 is also a solid improvement over what they used to be.

Also remember that Charadon Warzone is coming with rules for orks too. (even if i think it's more beast snagga rules...)

Running 30 boyz is probably a penalty now rather than a tactic.

Mob Rule does nothing for an individual squad, its now multiple squads in the same area (side note a minimum squad of nobz nearby triggers it which is kinda funny).
They lost +1 attack at 20
Unless im blind (possible) i didnt see Green Tide strat so you cant bring them back at 30man strong either

Meanwhile, they suffer massive LD issues now and will have half strength at 15 models, an issue if theyre not right up against another squad that isnt half strength.

I legit dont see a single reason to run them in 30man blobs now. Transports or dont bother with boyz now imo.

Of additional note, is how Cheap a lot of our models are becoming, Killa Kanz going to 40 points with any loadout is amazing and Deff Dreads dropping to 85 with quad Klaw loadout will be nice. Meks being able to apply kustom jobs through an Action if they are near a Mek Workshop without impairing the vehicle is also interesting.

i wouldnt be surprised if the kan one is a typo. Base cost is probably accurate but why is a rokkit/kmb/grotzooka all 0pts swapout from a bigshoota? Nothing else does that, even the Deffdread is a +10pt per swap (125pts for a quad-rokkit/kmb dread)
Dont get me wrong i love the idea of kanz being good but that feels fishy.

 Blackie wrote:
Was the warboss' datasheets leaked already? I'm asking since I say the BM trait which is still a 4++ for him and Da Biggest Boss seems to be cut off. So our warboss is out of chance to get an invuln, again? Or maybe it's a built in 5++. Wartrike gained it, if I'm not wrong. Sure warboss with no invuln will hurt a lot.

Just watch this



Megaboss gets a 5++, warboss gets 4+.

There are two relics which give a 4++ (one of which is actually mega armor only). Best Armor Teef Can Buy (WL) gives +1 armor save/4++.

Warboss sheet was cut off but I didn't even see a Power Klaw, let alone anything else of value. They want you to pay 5 points now for the attack squig. It's garbo. He comes with a Big Choppa and a Kombi Rokkit, and you can't downgrade the Kombi weapon to save points.

Realistically, you're going to use the Megaboss now.

Biggest Boss is for an additional Warlord trait, it's not the same. You have to take the WL trait or a relic for a 4++.

I find it kind of lazy that beast snagga warbosses gives an aura of +1 to hit to beast snaggas, when they have an inherent ability already to get +1 to against vehicles and monsters.

It means that fighting beast snaggas near a beast snagga boss often wont do any thing at all. Such an overlap in abilities seem kind of silly. I understand that you get +1 to hit near non vehicles and monsters, but its still a silly overlap i feel. Warbosses for beast snaggas should give something else than a +1 to hit.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Was the warboss' datasheets leaked already? I'm asking since I say the BM trait which is still a 4++ for him and Da Biggest Boss seems to be cut off. So our warboss is out of chance to get an invuln, again? Or maybe it's a built in 5++. Wartrike gained it, if I'm not wrong. Sure warboss with no invuln will hurt a lot.

Just watch this



Megaboss gets a 5++, warboss gets 4+.

There are two relics which give a 4++ (one of which is actually mega armor only). Best Armor Teef Can Buy (WL) gives +1 armor save/4++.

Warboss sheet was cut off but I didn't even see a Power Klaw, let alone anything else of value. They want you to pay 5 points now for the attack squig. It's garbo. He comes with a Big Choppa and a Kombi Rokkit, and you can't downgrade the Kombi weapon to save points.

Realistically, you're going to use the Megaboss now.

Biggest Boss is for an additional Warlord trait, it's not the same. You have to take the WL trait or a relic for a 4++.

The image they used for the warboss has a power klaw. He obviously starts with a big choppa and can upgrade to the klaw. Given that the two available warboss models have klaw/kombirokkit and big choppa/kombiscorcha that's probably the options.

Wait, the Bonebreaka is 175pts? I heard it was now 200pts. I’d be stoked if it was 175.

Do we have it’s full datasheet now? Can it make its extra attacks without needing to charge?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wait, the Bonebreaka is 175pts? I heard it was now 200pts. I’d be stoked if it was 175.

Do we have it’s full datasheet now? Can it make its extra attacks without needing to charge?

Base cost is 175 with the rolla. 150 for a rolla+ard case battlewagon, so you're paying 25pts for the extra d6 rolla attacks.

Beardedragon wrote:
I find it kind of lazy that beast snagga warbosses gives an aura of +1 to hit to beast snaggas, when they have an inherent ability already to get +1 to against vehicles and monsters.

It means that fighting beast snaggas near a beast snagga boss often wont do any thing at all. Such an overlap in abilities seem kind of silly. I understand that you get +1 to hit near non vehicles and monsters, but its still a silly overlap i feel. Warbosses for beast snaggas should give something else than a +1 to hit.

Or just being near the warboss helps you really get through any -1 to hit shenanigans.

Hoofy wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I find it kind of lazy that beast snagga warbosses gives an aura of +1 to hit to beast snaggas, when they have an inherent ability already to get +1 to against vehicles and monsters.

It means that fighting beast snaggas near a beast snagga boss often wont do any thing at all. Such an overlap in abilities seem kind of silly. I understand that you get +1 to hit near non vehicles and monsters, but its still a silly overlap i feel. Warbosses for beast snaggas should give something else than a +1 to hit.

Or just being near the warboss helps you really get through any -1 to hit shenanigans.

i rarely find that happening

Quite odd that we now seem to be more of an MSU - mechanised army.

And the horde army now is Ad Mech, go figure.

They literally took away every single incentive for being in big mobs.

Lost most of the benefits of mob rule
Lost the bonuses to weirdboy for having big units nearby
Lost the +1 A for more than 20 models
and lost the ability to re-grow a big unit.

We already had quality of life issues trying to get those big units into combat efficiently due to the base size change.

Can anyone think of a reason to play foot boyz at all now?

At least trukk/mechanized orks seems good, but a lot hinges of how the specialist thingy works.

I won't miss putting my back out having to move 200 lads but I'm not sure this was there intent.

gungo wrote:
The mega armor warboss has a Uge’ choppa not big choppa..
It’s essentially a powerklaw without the -1 to hit
Uge’ choppa-
+3 str (on a 6str warboss), -3 ap, 2d
The difference of str 9 (or 10 for charging goffs) to 12 is only viable for wounding on titanic units with 9 or higher toughness (extremely rare)… no need to be upset about no powerklaw..

I just got done saying Megaboss is the auto include, and the regular warboss is garbo. Regular warboss cannot take huge choppa and is stuck with big choppa, hence why I was saying he was garbo. Bad armor save, no invulnerable save, bad weapon, 90 points base = no redeeming qualities outside of the same things megaboss gets.

Megaboss gets the nod due to -3 AP, +1W, 2+/5++ for 25 points. That's all.

Powerklaw on regular warboss would have at least given him something of value - perhaps it was cut off of the screen grabs, and he can still take it. Among other things, this would give him access to Da Killa Klaw. 3 damage and S 12 really is not the same as S9 2 damage.

Quite odd that we now seem to be more of an MSU - mechanised army.

And the horde army now is Ad Mech, go figure.

They literally took away every single incentive for being in big mobs.

Lost most of the benefits of mob rule
Lost the bonuses to weirdboy for having big units nearby
Lost the +1 A for more than 20 models
and lost the ability to re-grow a big unit.

We already had quality of life issues trying to get those big units into combat efficiently due to the base size change.

Can anyone think of a reason to play foot boyz at all now?

At least trukk/mechanized orks seems good, but a lot hinges of how the specialist thingy works.

I won't miss putting my back out having to move 200 lads but I'm not sure this was there intent.

I can totally see Green tide being a formation in the next campaign book with all the benefits we lost...

I love that the result of the wheely-bit on the painboss is that his move is 7".

"Say, Ork Players, I hear you saying "these new squig riders is great, but what would be better is a painboy that can almost, but not really keep up with them!"

 the_scotsman wrote:


2) How do Specialist Mobs actually work? How are they limited? it kind of seems like since theyre included with the list of characters who don't take away your clan rules that Specialist Mobs will replace <Clan> but otherwise not cost points or be limtied, which would be EXTREMELY EXTREMELY STRONG.

if you were able to say "my <clan> is Goffs, so thats all these big 30-blocks of boyz, all these melee units...Oh, but these Tankbustas are Boom Boyz, and these burna boyz are pyromaniacs, etc etc" or "Clan=Freebootas, but all the boyz are Trukk Boyz"

This has been clarified in another section, which lists Specialist units under the list that can be taken in another clan detachment, alongside Ghaz, etc.

E.g., you can take the Specialist unit without losing the clan bonus for the rest of the detachment. The specialist units only get their specialist bonus, and lose the clan bonus.

So you could have a goff detachment, but each boyz mob would either choose to be trukk boyz or goffs. The trukk boyz rule fully replaces the goff clan bonus for that unit.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wait, the Bonebreaka is 175pts? I heard it was now 200pts. I’d be stoked if it was 175.

Do we have it’s full datasheet now?

Yes and yes, 175

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Can it make its extra attacks without needing to charge?

No

only thing I can come up with is:

1 - painboy and kff are now 'within' rather than 'wholly within' so you can have 3 30-blocks of boyz with that and a warboss in the center, all of which are easily getting the buffs

2 - psychic power buffs most notably warpath which I'm assuming is still in the mix

3 - can use 2cp ignore morale strat on whatever 30-block got attacked.

 the_scotsman wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wait, the Bonebreaka is 175pts? I heard it was now 200pts. I’d be stoked if it was 175.

Do we have it’s full datasheet now? Can it make its extra attacks without needing to charge?

Base cost is 175 with the rolla. 150 for a rolla+ard case battlewagon, so you're paying 25pts for the extra d6 rolla attacks.

That’s actually pretty nice. I assume it’s still wasted points to chuck cannons or shootas on it. Still, that’s a nice surprise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the_scotsman wrote:
only thing I can come up with is:

1 - painboy and kff are now 'within' rather than 'wholly within' so you can have 3 30-blocks of boyz with that and a warboss in the center, all of which are easily getting the buffs

2 - psychic power buffs most notably warpath which I'm assuming is still in the mix

3 - can use 2cp ignore morale strat on whatever 30-block got attacked.

Huh. It costs 2cp each turn but 60-90 Orks running up the board with 5++ seems really good.

90 orks will cost you 2 CP for moral each turn + 2 CP for passing morale once in the match + 2 CP for 5++ rofl, and they will cost 810 points.

That's called nerf sir

I feel like a green tide still has some teeth, given the new goffs trait, 'within' KFF that you can spend CP to boost back up to a 5++ and painboy.

Ghazzy+Makari (since he's just a cheaper painboy who's harder to snipe and gets +2" movement)+KFF Mek+multiple 30 blocks of goff boyz still feels like it's got teeth.

Good matchup into DG, custodes, marines, necrons, bad matchup into admech...probably a decent matchup into drukhari? it's gonna be a 'I score, you try to kill a million T5 5++ 6+FNP models' race for sure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kebabcito wrote:
90 orks will cost you 2 CP for moral each turn + 2 CP for passing morale once in the match + 2 CP for 5++ rofl, and they will cost 810 points.

That's called nerf sir

only when the morale roll is actually gonna hurt me. Ghazzy lets me ignore all mods, so if my opponent kils like 20/30 from a squad I'll just eat the ~2 models that will flee, whatever.

Ghaz+Makari+KFF Big Mek+4x30 boyz+a bunch of Kommandos seems like it's got potential for a good brick gak list.

You better throw fast that big waaagh, because if you don't do it, ghaz is annihilated turn 2 and no waaagh ROFL.

And, if somehow the enemy is able to remove ghaz from the board turn 1 (not so hard now that he doesn't heal himself and everyone do MW in charging phase) you are really fethed up

Kebabcito wrote:
You better throw fast that big waaagh, because if you don't do it, ghaz is annihilated turn 2 and no waaagh ROFL.

And, if somehow the enemy is able to remove ghaz from the board turn 1 (not so hard now that he doesn't heal himself and everyone do MW in charging phase) you are really fethed up

You haven't heard? He can ride a Battlewagon now. But he aggressively takes up all the seats by himself.

Then you playing him costing like 450 points with the forktress? and even 500p cuz makari will go in it so you don't roll a 1 and die.

And all this for what? for surviving 3 more minutes in a match? 3 dark lances or 2 chiken lasscannons and that battlewagon is removed.

Ghaz will never ever reach a fight against a decent player in a tournament, never.

For me ghaz is an insult by GW