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After a lot of consideration i think the sternguard are one of the top units in 40k. Why?

Firepower utility- IG in cover? Hit them with the ap5 ignores cover rounds. 4+ saves? Kraken rounds (at 30in range) marines? Venganxe rounds. MCs? Poisoned. 2+ to wounds anything.

Survivability? Same as a normal tac- (not half bad for infantry) through a pyscich power like forewarning/invisibility and it gets that much better.

Cost? On the upper 250s for kitted out unit with LC Sgt+ melts bomb and combi meltas.

Melee? 2 attacks each with good melee stats.

They're pretty good, especially when it comes to the firepower department (they slaughter most other troops in the game). They'll Do Work if you use them right. But... 1W T4 models with power armor evaporate when hit by the multitude of AP3 and AP2 weapons in the game. And their effectiveness against MCs is vastly overstated.

Yes. They're much more close to the fluff marines than the tacticals are.

I just realized, you can pop nine in a drop pod, arrive first round and the Libby with you can cast invisibility on them.

Am I right?

Johnnytorrance wrote:
I just realized, you can pop nine in a drop pod, arrive first round and the Libby with you can cast invisibility on them.

Am I right?

Yep, and that would be brutal to deal with. But you still have to randomly draw that power, so it's not a reliable strategy.

I've used them in several games to alpha-strike wraithknights with combi-gravs. works a real treat, also good for crippling the mobility of eldar by immobilising their serpents. never went for the 9 and a libby idea, I prefer combat squadding and giving my opponent 2 units to shoot at, and giving me 2 units to shoot with. if the first five kill the desired target, the other 5 will go onto target number 2. the opponent then has to figure if they're really a threat any more now their combi weapons are gone. I love forcing difficult decisions

 DanielBeaver wrote:

Johnnytorrance wrote:
I just realized, you can pop nine in a drop pod, arrive first round and the Libby with you can cast invisibility on them.

Am I right?

Yep, and that would be brutal to deal with. But you still have to randomly draw that power, so it's not a reliable strategy.

That's what Tigurius is for.

They are buck-nasty, and that's a fact.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can just engage them in melee and they're still locked in during the enemy psyker phase, that librarian can't recast invisibility, right?

Mavnas wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can just engage them in melee and they're still locked in during the enemy psyker phase, that librarian can't recast invisibility, right?

It can stil cast. And your hitting on 6s

They seem really expensive for what they do aside from hunting vehicles that are close together. For an elite hunter or backline harass unit I like LotD more. Though I usually ally my SM with primary AM, so I may not have as many issues with AT as the typical SM primary player. Also Scions are very cheap, and can pull AT duty just as well as Sternguard, especially the command squads.

I like running them naked, however I run into the problem of they are very expensive for what they do when they die just as quickly as other marines. For the price I would almost rather get a second 5 man squad with combi melta and meltagun. Not only do I get about the same number of shots but I also get two objective secured drop pods.

Even better in lists like ultras and salamanders.

I think their best use is something only they can do and that is a hvy flamer delivery system, with all the xenos out there that bump to ap4 and str 5 wounding on 2s is very clutch. Combined with the open topped vehicles out there in large numbers I can see them have a significant impact on the first turn.

Actually, I think heavy flamers are a poor choice for them.
They already HAS cover-ignoring bolters. why would you need to invest in getting a point-blank cover ignoring gun then?

Points better invested in meltas, as that's the only thing that the special-issue ammo can't already deal with.

 Jimsolo wrote:
They are buck-nasty, and that's a fact.

rofl!! Jim, i wish we were closer together, i would love to play 40k with you!

I don't think much of them. Too much investment for too much risk, certainly if you're trying to use them as frontline infantry, unless you have about one squad in a drop pod. Even then, the rest of your list suffers structually because a massive amount of points is put towards the supporting prospect that maybe you'll remove one unit from existence at the back end of the board.

Much like everything in Codex SM, they try too hard to be complicated and mildly effective at too many different things, end up costing a bomb and in the end just get massacred leaving you with 15-20% of your points gone.

I'd hesistantly call them a "good" unit, but they're certainly nowhere within a thousand miles of top tier, or among the best units in the game. Not when Leman Russes, Riptides, Seer Councils, Wave Serpents, Dire Avengers, Grey Hunters, Venoms, Annihilation Barges and Wraiths exist. That's basically most of the top-tier club, by the way.

Your astonishing discovery is about six years late.

Well, Sternguard is what they always have been, an elite unit that can get the job done if handled correctly.

They are good but that's it. One or two units in Pods can disrupt enemy plans. But this will not always work.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Actually, I think heavy flamers are a poor choice for them.
They already HAS cover-ignoring bolters. why would you need to invest in getting a point-blank cover ignoring gun then?

For the most part, yes. But if you run Salamanders, a heavy flamer alpha strike can reliably wipe entire squads, as well as give you very potent overwatch (S5 AP4 that auto hits multiple targets, ignores cover, and re-rolls to wound is worth 10 points)

Something I was thinking about was trying to find some neat tricks with the Forgeworld SM chapter tactics. I did find one thing. The Raptors have the "Legendary Marksmen" tactic which says if a model with a bolter, bolt pistol, or combi weapon firing as a bolter stood still for the movement phase they can fire it as a Heavy 1 Rending. It doesn't say anything about the special ammo for Sternguard so RAW its compatible. Meaning you can have ignores cover rending shots at 24'', and S4 AP4 Rending shots at 30''. I thought it was neat anyways. Still might not be enough of a reason to take them though, a full unit of 10 costs almost as much as 20 tactical marines, and at that point I would almost rather just have more shots for a possibility of getting rending hits.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
I don't think much of them. Too much investment for too much risk, certainly if you're trying to use them as frontline infantry, unless you have about one squad in a drop pod. Even then, the rest of your list suffers structually because a massive amount of points is put towards the supporting prospect that maybe you'll remove one unit from existence at the back end of the board.

Much like everything in Codex SM, they try too hard to be complicated and mildly effective at too many different things, end up costing a bomb and in the end just get massacred leaving you with 15-20% of your points gone.

I'd hesistantly call them a "good" unit, but t

hey're certainly nowhere within a thousand miles of top tier, or among the best units in the game. Not when Leman Russes, Riptides, Seer Councils, Wave Serpents, Dire Avengers, Grey Hunters, Venoms, Annihilation Barges and Wraiths exist. That's basically most of the top-tier club, by the way.

I like running 2 10 man squads. If I play crimson fists I usually take about 4. Heavy flamers are excellent against anyone but 2+ save armies. Worth the take IMO.

I also DS them in the same area and take down two key enemy units reliablely. I have taken out several of those "better" units easily with my stern. But he won't wipe all 20, combat squad them man.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My favorite was dropping and entire seer council before they even got to cast their powers T1.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Actually, I think heavy flamers are a poor choice for them.
They already HAS cover-ignoring bolters. why would you need to invest in getting a point-blank cover ignoring gun then?

Points better invested in meltas, as that's the only thing that the special-issue ammo can't already deal with.

With the pods it gives an extra 4-6 hits on the deep strike. That usually is enough to justify the cost IMO. Also like i said with open topped transports being a thing, it will be nice to get an easy first blood from the flamers.

 ultimentra wrote:
Something I was thinking about was trying to find some neat tricks with the Forgeworld SM chapter tactics. I did find one thing. The Raptors have the "Legendary Marksmen" tactic which says if a model with a bolter, bolt pistol, or combi weapon firing as a bolter stood still for the movement phase they can fire it as a Heavy 1 Rending. It doesn't say anything about the special ammo for Sternguard so RAW its compatible. Meaning you can have ignores cover rending shots at 24'', and S4 AP4 Rending shots at 30''. I thought it was neat anyways. Still might not be enough of a reason to take them though, a full unit of 10 costs almost as much as 20 tactical marines, and at that point I would almost rather just have more shots for a possibility of getting rending hits.

Sternguard special ammunition uses a different weapon profile (with a different name), and so I don't think benefit from the Raptor's CT (similar to how IF CT don't benefit Sternguards).

I feel as if dual heavy flamer speeders or dreadnought do it better unless you're running Salamander chapter tactics.

Ironclad can do it well as well, however it is about the same number of points in the pod. But with pedro now the pod is objective secured. Also they have options like still having the special ammunition bolters as well as not being a vehicle so can go to ground etc.

Now I am not saying it is 100% the best use for sternguard but I believe it is a solid option and has worked pretty well for me so far. I also tend to run a 10 man squad without combis and just the heavy flamers and it works pretty well for me

My extra 2 cents - you should ALWAYS combat squad sterns

i like to keep a squad of 6-10 (if 10, combat squad) w/ combi plasmas in my deployment zone to kill anything that comes close.

Agreed. They are excellent. Really hurt my wraithguard first time I met them.

I run 5, 2 combi flamers 2 combi meltas and a heavy flamer.

Drop pod them in and take your pick! Tanks, infantry, hell I have even seen them used (not by me but by another player with the same loadout) flamer and then tarpit a unit for 2 turns in assault!!

Not bad for a unit that is no way an assault unit!

I still feel like Legion of the Damned is a better pick for backline harass or warlord assassination duty due to their 3++ and relentless as well as cover ignoring bolters. Does anyone here think Sternguard do better at these? TBH Sternguard IMO can pull the same task, but would still not survive past the next turn. LotD can survive a surprising amount of firepower and live to fire those weapons again making them more points efficient.

Often you take a lot of normal fire, and a 3++ won't help more than a 3+. I find the Sternguard are better in general because they are more flexible. Also because max combis is a lot of fun.