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Just how good are Necrons now?
Top-tier. They manhandle the Tau like a rag doll.
Very good. They managed to beat a tough Tau army, though sustains high casualties in a tightly-fought game.
Draw. Because Necrons did not choose to go 2nd in an objectives game.
Good, but Tau firepower is still deadly. The Tau manages to eke out a win.
Not good enough to usurp the power of the Tau, who thoroughly route the Space Robots.

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Made in us
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San Jose, CA

7th Edition 1850-pts - Cheese-crons vs Tripide Tau

Ok, this is my 2nd 7th Ed. game so far. For this game, I decided to see how competitive Necrons are in 7th. My prediction - they are even more competitive now than they were in 6th! Yes, with the buff to vehicles in 7th, Necron vehicles and flyers have become even harder to take down.

I then went a step further. I brought 2 Combined Arms Detachments (CAD's, essentially double-FOC's back in 6th) to see how competitive Necrons can really be. So this will be a completely legal, Battle-forged army, assuming if tournaments will be allowing 2-detachments.

My opponent for the game is Spam Adams and his triptide Tau. This will be his very 1st game of 7E and he is just getting a feel for how different his Tau will be in this edition than they were back in 6th. Back in 6th, his Tau would usually give any of my armies a lot of problems, Necrons included. While I feel his list is still good, it isn't exactly optimized for 7th yet. I think with more playtesting, it can and will get better.

Remember, you heard it from me 1st....Necrons are VERY STRONG in this edition. If you thought they were good in the previous edition, wait til you play against them in this edition.




1850 Necrons (My list)

BTW, you will find this list to be very similar to the one found in this report by Tactical_Genius:

Battle Report Requests; Daemon Factory vs. Crons game; Lists updated on first post; game on 4th June

Just wanted to point out that I arrived at this list independently from Mr Genius, and that a lot of competitive Necron armies will probably look something like this.


CAD #1

Destroyer Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, ResOrb - Warlord: Move through Cover 12"

5x Immortals - Gauss Blasters, Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe

6x Canoptek Wraiths

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge


CAD #2

Necron Overlord - 2+/3++, Mindshackle Scarabs, Phylactery, ResOrb, Warscythe
Catacomb Command Barge

5x Immortals - Gauss Blasters, Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge



1850 Tau

This is an approximation of his list.

Buffmander - "stuff"
Ethereal

Riptide - Burst Cannon, TL-SMS, Early Warning Override (EWO), Velocity Tracker (Burstide)
Riptide - Burst Cannon, TL-SMS, Early Warning Override, Velocity Tracker
Riptide - Burst Cannon, TL-SMS, Early Warning Override, Velocity Tracker

Fire Warriors - Devilfish w/SMS, Disruption Pods
Fire Warriors - Devilfish w/SMS, Disruption Pods
Fire Warriors - Devilfish w/SMS, Disruption Pods

6-8x Pathfinders
6-8x Pathfinders

2x Broadsides - HYMP, TL-SMS, EWO (Missile-sides)
2x Broadsides - HYMP, TL-SMS, EWO
2x Broadsides - HYMP, TL-SMS, EWO


-----------------------------------------------------------------


Pre-game Analysis:

Necrons:

So why will Necrons win? In order to answer that, you need to know why they have gotten better in 7th Edition:

  • Vehicles have become more resilient. It is now much harder to explode a tank. Moreover, Necron flyers and skimmers are getting 4+ jink cover saves. This translates to vehicles being much, much harder to kill. That is why a Necron AV13-spam/flyer-spam list is going to be so hard to deal with.


  • Normally, you lose some firepower when you opt to jink as you will be snap-shooting. Necron firepower, however, doesn't even skip a beat. They remain just as efficient shooting while snap-shooting as they do while shooting normally. Thus, they get the defensive benefits of 4+ cover almost all of the time without having to sacrifice any of the firepower that other skimmer armies do.


  • The new Bargelord (Necron Overlord on a Catacomb Command Barge, or CCB) has become a nightmare in this edition. He is super-fast (can move 30" a turn) and ultra-durable. Fire at him and your small-arms fire will be wasted against the AV13 chariot. Meanwhile, the Necron player can allocate the meltas/high-strength low-AP shots onto the Lord instead. Even if you do manage to kill him, the whole chariot-rider combo will be getting back up on a 4+ due to the ResOrb. He is a really, really good unit against static gunline-type armies.


  • I've got 6 AV13 vehicles! Tau cannot easily handle that. To top it off are 4 troops in flyers in an objectives mission. At least the Crons aren't going 2nd.

  • The Necron army has got some serious firepower as well as high mobility.

  • Now, any non-vehicle unit can go and grab the Relic. That means I can grab it with my wraithstar and with 1st Turn, I will most likely do so.

  • With almost everything being scoring, now I've got a lot of tough-to-kill scoring units in the form of AV13 vehicles.


  • Tau:

    So why will Tau lose? In order to answer that, you need to know why they have gotten worse in 7th Edition:

  • No more Toolbox Commander joining those Riptides.

  • No more Eldar allies with their psychic buffs and super-fast scoring jetbikes. The Tau are going to miss those re-rolls (i.e. Guide and Prescience).

  • MC's got nerfed. Now you cannot reliably kill a vehicle in assault due to the nerf to Smash attacks.

  • Adam's list isn't designed to be able to handle high-AV enemy units. Without fusion blasters or railheads, his army would struggle even to take out 1 AV13 vehicle a turn. The meta has changed from 6th to 7th. Nowadays, you've got to have the tools in your army to deal with high-AV vehicles.


  • However, it isn't completely a lost cause. The Tau still have a chance to win this game:

  • The Tau still has super firepower, at least against infantry units. If they focus on my wraithstar, it would be gone in an eyeblink (unless I hide them).

  • They've got 3 tough-to-kill skimmers of their own (with 3+ jink cover). However, unlike the Necron vehicles, the Tau skimmers are Objective Secured vehicles.

  • Big Guns won't be doing Necrons any favors. Nowadays, having more Heavy Supports in Big Guns is just a liability as you are giving up more VP's while getting nothing back in return.

  • It is Hammer & Anvil deployment. H&A almost always favor the Tau, just as going 2nd generally favors Necrons.


  • -----------------------------------------------------------------


    So what do you think of the matchup? Does the Tau have any chance, or will it be the Necrons who will have trouble against a massed 2+ army?


    BTW, we played with the following assumptions:

  • 1. The Bargelord (Necron Overlord on a Catacomb Command Barge) CANNOT join another unit.

  • 2. The Overlord's Catacomb Command Barge DOES NOT benefit from his 3++ phase shifters.


  • Missions were BAO-style: Big Guns (Primary) and the Relic (Secondary).

    My Necrons won the the roll and actually chose to go 1st!


    -----------------------------------------------------------------


    Missions:

    BAO Missions.

    Primary: Big Guns, 4-pts

    Secondary: The Relic, 3-pts

    Tertiary: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each


    Deployment: Hammer & Anvil


    1st Turn: Necrons


    -----------------------------------------------------------------


    Deployment:

    Spoiler:


    Necron deployment.


    I position my 2 Lords near the center.


    Overview of the Necron deployment.


    The Tau castles up.


    Overview of our deployment.

    Adam deploys his army 36"+ away from my army in order to try to minimize my alpha-strike.




    -----------------------------------------------------------------


    Necrons 1

    Spoiler:

    Barges huff it 12". Wraithstar goes after the Relic.


    Thanks to pivoting, which gives several of my barges another 2" of range, my 3 left barges are in range to shoot at the broadsides. I kill 1 and put 1W on the other.

    Bargelord goes flat-out another 18" (total of 30" movement). Wraiths run onto the Relic and AB's out of shooting range go flat-out.


    Arcing puts 1W on a riptide. Next turn, he would fail his Nova to take another 1W (3W remaining).




    Tau 1

    Spoiler:

    Tau movement. Devilfish go flat-out. We make a mistake with moving flat-out. It no longer provides +1 cover like it used to back in 6th Ed. In any case, all it did was to discourage me from targeting his devilfish with 2+ flat-out, disruption pod cover.


    Burstide takes 2W from Gets Hot! That wouldn't have happened had farseers been able to cast Prescience/Guide on his riptides.


    The riptide who failed his Nova targets my wraithstar....and puts 2W on my Warlord (due to poor saves on my part)!


    More importantly, my opponent fires everything at my Bargelord, starting with his 2 units of pathfinders. He manages to pen it, reducing it to AV11, and finally taking it down.

    NOTE - I make a mistake here. The Bargelord could have lived had I allocated some of the shots to my Overlord instead. However, as this was my 1st time in a long, long time running him, I simply forgot to do so.

    First Blood to the Tau....


    ....NOT! Muahahahaha....

    I'm telling you now....ResOrbs are mandatory on a Bargelord. Never leave home without it.




    Necrons 2

    Spoiler:


    All of my flyers come in.

    Well, I will say this about H&A deployment. The only good thing about it is that I can move my flyers onto the table and still avoid Tau Interceptor fire.


    Barges should now be in range to blast his army off the table.

    Wraithstar actually begins to move back with the Relic.


    Bargelord sweeps one of the devilfish but misses all of his attacks.

    Necrons surround the Tau....sort of.


    Shooting wipes out 1 unit of Broadsides for First Blood . I also kill 1 broadside and take off 1W from another broadside in another unit.


    Bargelord charges the riptide but Tau overwatch - first the pathfinders and then the rest of the army - takes him down.

    Again, had I allocated the shots onto my unwounded Overlord as opposed to my AV11 command barge, he most likely would have survived.

    Fortunately for my opponent, this time, he doesn't get back.




    Tau 2

    Spoiler:


    Riptide takes another 1W from a failed Nova. He is now down to 2W remaining.

    Things are not looking very good for the Tau.

    In shooting, he takes off a couple of HP's off of my AB's but that is all.




    Necrons 3

    Spoiler:


    Prepare for total annihilation.

    Things are now looking downright bad for the Tau.


    Wraithstar continues to run away with the Relic.


    Shooting takes off 1W from a riptide (2W remaining). Arcing kills off 2 pathfinders.


    I finish off the 2nd unit of broadsides and kill off the riptide on top of the ruins. I also drop the 3rd riptide down to 2W as well.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------


    My opponent is demoralized. He has lost the majority of his offense. I have lost only my bargelord. Not only is there no way for him to come back, but he is looking at a possible tabling. With that, he concedes.




    Crushing Victory to the Metallic Dead - Necrons!!!





    Tau 3

    Spoiler:

    Sorry, but the game already ended.




    Necrons 4

    Spoiler:

    Sorry, but the game already ended.




    Tau 4

    Spoiler:

    Sorry, but the game already ended.




    Necrons 5

    Spoiler:

    Sorry, but the game already ended.




    Tau 5

    Spoiler:

    Sorry, but the game already ended.




    -----------------------------------------------------------------


    Post-game Analysis:

    Spoiler:
    The meta has shifted drastically once again in 7th. In 5th, it was vehicles (i.e. MSU mech-spam). In 6th, it became infantry. Now in 7th, it is back to vehicles again. The majority of the tournament lists of yesterday just won't cut it in today's meta. They need to be tweaked to handle the current meta. For my opponent, he hasn't really taken the opportunity to update his list yet. Rather, he hasn't taken the opportunity to optimize his list for 7th Ed. yet. It's still a very strong list. He just needs to add in the tools to handle heavy armor.

    This battle also demonstrates how dual-CAD builds (dual Combined-Arms Detachment builds) can play to the strengths of certain armies. Necrons in particular gain a significant boost with dual-CAD's. Their better units are already super-efficient and with dual-CAD's, now they can spam them even more. However, I think that most tournaments will not be allowing dual-CAD armies. Most of them will go 1 Primary CAD and 1 ally or formation. But if they do allow dual-CAD's, you can definitely expect to see Necrons at the top tables.




    This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2014/06/10 14:56:09



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    Eye of Terror

    I don't think two CAD is going to fly at most major events. ATC doesn't allow it.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/09 18:57:47


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    Fayetteville NC

    1. ATC's decision means very little about the tourney scene and what will/will not be allowed. With a new edition of 40K and little time to truly prepare for it as a judge AND allow players the time to actually build/playtest armies, they obviously went very conservative.

    2. I think attaching a vehicle to a unit is extremely iffy (Chariot). So, if you did this, I'm not sure what to take away from the report and what impact it had on the game. Not saying you did, but I did notice the Command Barge which you rarely ever displayed in a battle report. But, a Barge/Lord in a Wraith unit with 2 Mindshackles will likely walk through a Tau army, potentially very quick if your opponent did not properly space his units out (multi assault). Even without the vehicle attach to a unit, I still think the lynchpin will be the Wraiths and chariot drawing a lot of fire and essentially be the damage dealers in the army.

    3. I'm concerned for both armies as they both very low Objective Secured units.

    I anticipate Riptides getting assaulted quickly to allow for Night Scythes to come in with little resistance. Pathfinders will also be targeted early. The Night Scythes will likely Jink as they receive less of a penalty when Snap Firing and the Necrons inside don't care if the vehicle jinks or not. Necrons will most likely win the game.

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    Eye of Terror

    I don't think nova is planning to allow double FOC either FYI.

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    San Jose, CA

     Dozer Blades wrote:
    I don't two CAD is going to fly at most major events. ATC doesn't allow it.

    It's a possibility. It's still within the 2-sources limitation that most tourneys will have so you may see some tourneys allowing it.

    I mainly wanted to test out how ridiculous Necrons can be when they spam those AV13 vehicles.

    In any case, don't look at this as a representation of what tourneys will allow. Rather, you can look at it as a representation of what tourneys most likely WON'T ALLOW.


    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/05 14:19:01



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    Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

    Going really heavy with the doubling down on the Barges.
    Im surprised that you didnt take a few more wraiths with a D-Lord as opposed to the CCB.

    I imagine the av13 got a huge boost with the new damage table, and crons barely caring about jinking forcing snap shots.

    Im curious as to how you came to that decision, or otherwise, the cost benefit of it.

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    MajorStoffer wrote:
    ...
    Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
       
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    San Jose, CA

    BTW, I forgot to mention. We will be playing my favorite deployment against a super-shooty army....NOT (the favorite part, that is)!

    That's right....Hammer & Anvil. Might as well rename it to Hammer and Tauvil.


     Sarigar wrote:

    2. I think attaching a vehicle to a unit is extremely iffy (Chariot). So, if you did this, I'm not sure what to take away from the report and what impact it had on the game. Not saying you did, but I did notice the Command Barge which you rarely ever displayed in a battle report. But, a Barge/Lord in a Wraith unit with 2 Mindshackles will likely walk through a Tau army, potentially very quick if your opponent did not properly space his units out (multi assault). Even without the vehicle attach to a unit, I still think the lynchpin will be the Wraiths and chariot drawing a lot of fire and essentially be the damage dealers in the army.

    3. I'm concerned for both armies as they both very low Objective Secured units.

    I anticipate Riptides getting assaulted quickly to allow for Night Scythes to come in with little resistance. Pathfinders will also be targeted early. The Night Scythes will likely Jink as they receive less of a penalty when Snap Firing and the Necrons inside don't care if the vehicle jinks or not. Necrons will most likely win the game.

    2. Agreed. No matter how legal it may sound, I call shenanigans on that and I hope people don't really use that tactic. It is combos like these that will break the game. At the very least, people with say, "damn those frickin necrons and their cheesiness." Honestly, I DO NOT want Necrons to become the next "Seer Council" of 7th Ed.

    As for being the lynchpin, the wraithstar and bargelord will definitely draw a lot of fire. HOWEVER, they won't be the main damage dealers. The star of the offensive game will most likely be the Necron shooting.

    3. Necrons will be ok. They've got the AB's to cover the back objectives and the OS troops to contest the forwards ones. As for Tau, they've actually got 6 OS troops. That's including the devilfish who will getting 2+ jink saves if they go flat-out!





    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Dozer Blades wrote:
    I don't think nova is planning to allow double FOC either FYI.

    Nothing is set in stone. However, my battle reports will serve to give TO's info that may sway their decision-making.


     iGuy91 wrote:
    Going really heavy with the doubling down on the Barges.
    Im surprised that you didnt take a few more wraiths with a D-Lord as opposed to the CCB.

    I imagine the av13 got a huge boost with the new damage table, and crons barely caring about jinking forcing snap shots.

    Im curious as to how you came to that decision, or otherwise, the cost benefit of it.

    Yeah, it's a mean Necron build.

    The bargelord is expensive. In this configuration, he is 300-pts. In addition to that, I've got 5 AB's so couldn't afford to go wraithspam. But that's fine. This game was meant to test out 2 things:

    1. The Bargelord.

    2. Massed Necron vehicle-spam.


    AV13-spam has easily become the best Necron build currently, mainly for a few reasons:

    1. They are much tougher to kill nowadays with the new Jink rules and Vehicle Damage table.

    2. Their main weakness used to be against FMC-spam. Well, now that Smash got nerfed, it makes them (Necron vehicles) even more resilient.

    3. The meta will still have problems against AV13-spam. Even meltas aren't as reliable, not when my barges are getting 4+ cover (3+ if flat-out) without losing a step in its offense (thanks to teslas).



    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/05 14:53:56



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    The best State-Texas

    I've been using the power of the CCB recently myself, and Have fought a Tau list very similar this one.

    Necrons, hands down. The new CCB and Chariot rules just wreck armies like Tau.

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     Sasori wrote:
    I've been using the power of the CCB recently myself, and Have fought a Tau list very similar this one.

    Necrons, hands down. The new CCB and Chariot rules just wreck armies like Tau.

    Just a little foreshadowing, but he does manage to kill my bargelord on Turn 2.

    Tank Hunter and Ignore Cover, even on broadsides, is still really nasty.



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     Dozer Blades wrote:
    I don't think nova is planning to allow double FOC either FYI.


    And this applies to this battle report, how? Folks can determine what they want to ban/allow for whatever event. This battle report appears to demonstrate 7th edtion as it stands and there are folks who are interested in playing and learning how pure 7th edition actually plays. I don't have many Necron players locally, so I'll be interested in seeing how this plays out as where I play, we are trying all the 7th edition stuff before autobanning stuff. There are other threads to discuss the merits of what will or will not be allowed at certain events. If you find zero value in reading this report b/c it does not prescribe to a particular format, then don't read it.

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    It does get old when people act like NOVA, BAO, Adepticon and ATC are the ones responsible for rules designing. Honestly at least half of the comp ideas I have seen come from the louder portions of this crowd are terrible, and just push the game back towards 5th.

    That list is very similar to a satandard competitive template I had for necrons.

    Basically 4 Night scythe troops with 6 barges= 1200pts on the nose. Which is pretty scary as it leaves plaenty of points for CCB's and wraiths.

    Honestly I think the strongest build crons have uses ghost arks however. It lends much more durable objective secured units including the 4HP jinking AV 13 . Just add despair teks for last turn phase shifting or better yet Oberon.


       
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     jy2 wrote:
     Sasori wrote:
    I've been using the power of the CCB recently myself, and Have fought a Tau list very similar this one.

    Necrons, hands down. The new CCB and Chariot rules just wreck armies like Tau.

    Just a little foreshadowing, but he does manage to kill my bargelord on Turn 2.

    Tank Hunter and Ignore Cover, even on broadsides, is still really nasty.



    Why; didn't you you allocate those shots to the Overlord? I was in the same situation, and I just had them bounce of the 2+ save.

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     jy2 wrote:

    3. The meta will still have problems against AV13-spam. Even meltas aren't as reliable, not when my barges are getting 4+ cover (3+ if flat-out) without losing a step in its offense (thanks to teslas).



    I can't remember (don't have the book with me), but does Flat Out still add to the jink save in 7th? Also, does it apply to non-fast vehicles? Only the CCB is fast, the other barges are not.
       
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    San Jose, CA

     Sasori wrote:
     jy2 wrote:
     Sasori wrote:
    I've been using the power of the CCB recently myself, and Have fought a Tau list very similar this one.

    Necrons, hands down. The new CCB and Chariot rules just wreck armies like Tau.

    Just a little foreshadowing, but he does manage to kill my bargelord on Turn 2.

    Tank Hunter and Ignore Cover, even on broadsides, is still really nasty.



    Why; didn't you you allocate those shots to the Overlord? I was in the same situation, and I just had them bounce of the 2+ save.

    Because I forgot about the wound allocation part. Still learning about 7E and the new crons.

    So it's very possible that he might have lived. Oh well, live and learn. Fortunately, I made my D-lord my Warlord and he survived.




    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     ClassicCarraway wrote:
     jy2 wrote:

    3. The meta will still have problems against AV13-spam. Even meltas aren't as reliable, not when my barges are getting 4+ cover (3+ if flat-out) without losing a step in its offense (thanks to teslas).



    I can't remember (don't have the book with me), but does Flat Out still add to the jink save in 7th? Also, does it apply to non-fast vehicles? Only the CCB is fast, the other barges are not.

    Actually, you are right. It no longer adds to the Jink saves. My mistake.

    Though it didn't really make much of a difference in this game....other than to alter my target priority from shooting at his devilfishes to shooting at his offensive units instead.

    As for my opponent's shooting, he largely ignored my cover due to his Buffmander and markerlights.





    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Sarigar wrote:
     Dozer Blades wrote:
    I don't think nova is planning to allow double FOC either FYI.


    And this applies to this battle report, how? Folks can determine what they want to ban/allow for whatever event. This battle report appears to demonstrate 7th edtion as it stands and there are folks who are interested in playing and learning how pure 7th edition actually plays. I don't have many Necron players locally, so I'll be interested in seeing how this plays out as where I play, we are trying all the 7th edition stuff before autobanning stuff. There are other threads to discuss the merits of what will or will not be allowed at certain events. If you find zero value in reading this report b/c it does not prescribe to a particular format, then don't read it.

    No worries. I've got no problems with people raising questions like that.

    Whether it will be allowed or not, at least I am hoping this report will provide some info to TO's to help with their decision-making.




    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Red Corsair wrote:
    It does get old when people act like NOVA, BAO, Adepticon and ATC are the ones responsible for rules designing. Honestly at least half of the comp ideas I have seen come from the louder portions of this crowd are terrible, and just push the game back towards 5th.

    That list is very similar to a satandard competitive template I had for necrons.

    Basically 4 Night scythe troops with 6 barges= 1200pts on the nose. Which is pretty scary as it leaves plaenty of points for CCB's and wraiths.

    Honestly I think the strongest build crons have uses ghost arks however. It lends much more durable objective secured units including the 4HP jinking AV 13 . Just add despair teks for last turn phase shifting or better yet Oberon.


    Yeah, that is going to be a base for any competitive Cron army that allows for 2-detachments. It's a really, really strong foundation and IMO, will be the foundation for any top-tier Necron list.

    Ghost Arks will be good. The only issue with them will be in their mobility. Mobility is still what will eventually win games. But with that said, I can see 2 Night Scythes + 2 Ghost Arks as being very strong. Just watch out for those heldrakes and soulgrinders, which can still hurt the guys inside the Arks.


    This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/06/05 16:51:49



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    Well you can take a 20 man phalanx with oberon in it + a ghost ark then another ark and a 5 man squad in reserve or inside it and just use the two arks to keep the phalanx up at full strength, then ghost walk or whatever its called with oberon late game.

    That's obviously not the best build, but I hate spam personally, so I'd rather not just field an army of NS and AB's. It's to boring for me and my opponent.

       
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    Because I forgot about the wound allocation part. Still learning about 7E and the new crons.

    So it's very possible that he might have lived. Oh well, live and learn. Fortunately, I made my D-lord my Warlord and he survived.


    Ahh, gotcha!

    Well, I am looking forward to the batrep!

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    No GK, more necros? Boooo

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    I'm just curious with what the tau player will do with the buffmander, riptides can no longer be joined by ics.

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    DirtyDeeds wrote:
    I'm just curious with what the tau player will do with the buffmander, riptides can no longer be joined by ics.


    Probably B-sides.

       
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     WrentheFaceless wrote:
    No GK, more necros? Boooo

    I'm saving the GK's for Frontline Gaming when I go up there tomorrow.

    You're going to see my idea for a competitive GK list. Watch out for it!



    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Red Corsair wrote:
    DirtyDeeds wrote:
    I'm just curious with what the tau player will do with the buffmander, riptides can no longer be joined by ics.


    Probably B-sides.

    Yup.



    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Red Corsair wrote:
    Well you can take a 20 man phalanx with oberon in it + a ghost ark then another ark and a 5 man squad in reserve or inside it and just use the two arks to keep the phalanx up at full strength, then ghost walk or whatever its called with oberon late game.

    That's obviously not the best build, but I hate spam personally, so I'd rather not just field an army of NS and AB's. It's to boring for me and my opponent.

    There's going to be many ways to play Necrons. For those people who are competitive-minded, spam will continue to be the Cron's strongest tournament build. But I do encourage people to run what they like as opposed to what others tell them they should run. We need more variety in our armies and my more casual Necrons - my Funcrons - avoids spam completely.


    This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/06/05 17:57:20



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     Sarigar wrote:
     Dozer Blades wrote:
    I don't think nova is planning to allow double FOC either FYI.


    And this applies to this battle report, how? Folks can determine what they want to ban/allow for whatever event. This battle report appears to demonstrate 7th edtion as it stands and there are folks who are interested in playing and learning how pure 7th edition actually plays. I don't have many Necron players locally, so I'll be interested in seeing how this plays out as where I play, we are trying all the 7th edition stuff before autobanning stuff. There are other threads to discuss the merits of what will or will not be allowed at certain events. If you find zero value in reading this report b/c it does not prescribe to a particular format, then don't read it.


    So you have never played double FOC back in 6th ?


    Anyways jy2 I am really looking forward to seeing what the Bargelord can do... I used one back in sixth and it was really good back then... should be another level of nasty now !

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    I am suprised at the lack of ghost arks, I would think they would be better in the Av 13 wall combined with actually being able to take advantage of objective secured.

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     jy2 wrote:

    3. The meta will still have problems against AV13-spam. Even meltas aren't as reliable, not when my barges are getting 4+ cover (3+ if flat-out) without losing a step in its offense (thanks to teslas).


    I don't get this part, not sure where you are getting the 3+ cover for flat-out. I have read over the jink and flat-out rules and their doesn't seem to be any increasing of cover save. I know that was in the previous edition but I believe this was removed this edition.

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    While that's possible, it's also stupid to build your game around your customers being fething morons
     
       
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    Pre-game Analysis:

    Necrons:

    So why will Necrons win? In order to answer that, you need to know why they have gotten better in 7th Edition:

  • Vehicles have become more resilient. It is now much harder to explode a tank. Moreover, Necron flyers and skimmers are getting 4+ jink cover saves. This translates to vehicles being much, much harder to kill. That is why a Necron AV13-spam/flyer-spam list is going to be so hard to deal with.

  • Normally, you lose some firepower when you opt to jink as you will be snap-shooting. Necron firepower, however, doesn't even skip a beat. They remain just as efficient shooting while snap-shooting as they do while shooting normally. Thus, they get the defensive benefits of 4+ cover almost all of the time without having to sacrifice any of the firepower that other skimmer armies do.

  • The new Bargelord (Necron Overlord on a Catacomb Command Barge, or CCB) has become a nightmare in this edition. He is super-fast (can move 30" a turn) and ultra-durable. Fire at him and your small-arms fire will be wasted against the AV13 chariot. Meanwhile, the Necron player can allocate the meltas/high-strength low-AP shots onto the Lord instead. Even if you do manage to kill him, the whole chariot-rider combo will be getting back up on a 4+ due to the ResOrb. He is a really, really good unit against static gunline-type armies.

  • I've got 6 AV13 vehicles! Tau cannot easily handle that. To top it off are 4 troops in flyers in an objectives mission. At least the Crons aren't going 2nd.

  • The Necron army has got some serious firepower as well as high mobility.

  • Now, any non-vehicle unit can go and grab the Relic. That means I can grab it with my wraithstar and with 1st Turn, I will most likely do so.

  • With almost everything being scoring, now I've got a lot of tough-to-kill scoring units in the form of AV13 vehicles.



  • Tau:

    So why will Tau lose? In order to answer that, you need to know why they have gotten worse in 7th Edition:

  • No more Toolbox Commander joining those Riptides.

  • No more Eldar allies with their psychic buffs and super-fast scoring jetbikes. The Tau are going to miss those re-rolls (i.e. Guide and Prescience).

  • MC's got nerfed. Now you cannot reliably kill a vehicle in assault due to the nerf to Smash attacks.

  • Adam's list isn't designed to be able to handle high-AV enemy units. Without fusion blasters or railheads, his army would struggle even to take out 1 AV13 vehicle a turn. The meta has changed from 6th to 7th. Nowadays, you've got to have the tools in your army to deal with high-AV vehicles.


  • However, it isn't completely a lost cause. The Tau still have a chance to win this game:

  • The Tau still has super firepower, at least against infantry units. If they focus on my wraithstar, it would be gone in an eyeblink (unless I hide them).

  • They've got 3 tough-to-kill skimmers of there own (with 3+ jink cover). However, unlike the Necron vehicles, the Tau skimmers are Objective Secured vehicles.

  • Big Guns won't be doing Necrons any favors. Nowadays, having more Heavy Supports in Big Guns is just a liability as you are giving up more VP's while getting nothing back in return.

  • It is Hammer & Anvil deployment. H&A almost always favor the Tau, just as going 2nd generally favors Necrons.





  • Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Leth wrote:
    I am suprised at the lack of ghost arks, I would think they would be better in the Av 13 wall combined with actually being able to take advantage of objective secured.

    Unfortunately, I don't own any.

    Yeah, ghost arks are good, but IMO, Necron flyers with troops in them are better.


    Punisher wrote:
     jy2 wrote:

    3. The meta will still have problems against AV13-spam. Even meltas aren't as reliable, not when my barges are getting 4+ cover (3+ if flat-out) without losing a step in its offense (thanks to teslas).


    I don't get this part, not sure where you are getting the 3+ cover for flat-out. I have read over the jink and flat-out rules and their doesn't seem to be any increasing of cover save. I know that was in the previous edition but I believe this was removed this edition.

    See comment below:

     jy2 wrote:

     ClassicCarraway wrote:
     jy2 wrote:

    3. The meta will still have problems against AV13-spam. Even meltas aren't as reliable, not when my barges are getting 4+ cover (3+ if flat-out) without losing a step in its offense (thanks to teslas).



    I can't remember (don't have the book with me), but does Flat Out still add to the jink save in 7th? Also, does it apply to non-fast vehicles? Only the CCB is fast, the other barges are not.

    Actually, you are right. It no longer adds to the Jink saves. My mistake.

    Though it didn't really make much of a difference in this game....other than to alter my target priority from shooting at his devilfishes to shooting at his offensive units instead.

    As for my opponent's shooting, he largely ignored my cover due to his Buffmander and markerlights.



    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/09 17:51:15



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    Indiana

    Uggh, they are immune to krak grenades too since you cant hit back armor.....That is nasty.

    Looks like Necrons combined with Eldar are going to make ignore cover even more important.....Legion of the damned suicide squads it is.

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    So just to be clear here. Adam didn't alter his list at all for the new edition?

    Obviously you have, and I don't blame you, but it would have been nice to see his list evolve to adjust as well considering his army basically lost across the board without any real gain.

    I just don't get that.

       
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    Batrep will be out today.


     Red Corsair wrote:
    So just to be clear here. Adam didn't alter his list at all for the new edition?

    Obviously you have, and I don't blame you, but it would have been nice to see his list evolve to adjust as well considering his army basically lost across the board without any real gain.

    I just don't get that.

    He was basically using his 6th Ed. list and seeing how it would do in 7th Ed. He did alter it by dropping the Eldar allies and running an Ethereal instead, plus 1 more devilfish + troops.

    We both came into the game not really knowing what the other would be bringing, though I suspected he would be bringing his Tau and he suspected that I would be bringing my Crons.





    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Leth wrote:
    Uggh, they are immune to krak grenades too since you cant hit back armor.....That is nasty.

    Looks like Necrons combined with Eldar are going to make ignore cover even more important.....Legion of the damned suicide squads it is.

    Ignore Cover has always been good....and that is one reason why Tau are still very good. They're the only army other than serpent-spam mechdar that can do this reliably.


    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/09 17:40:26



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    Looking to be a great game!
    Cheers for the shout-out btw, although the name "Mr Genius" makes me sound more arrogant than my username already does... :/

    I'm backing the crons here.

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    Even though they didnt get much changes, the fact they didnt get much changes; crons seem a lot stronger in 7th

    I'd put my money on the Crons

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     jy2 wrote:

    Batrep will be out today.


    About time !!

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