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As title says. Instinctive Behaviour creatures are basically described as incapable of decision making, with minor functionality capabilities left on more complex organisms outside of Synapse. So the Deathleaper infiltrating the heart St Caspalen, to terrorise and play mind games with IG leadership to gain his forces the upper hand - how the hell is this possible? Did he sneak a Warrior squadron in with him? He has the decision making capability of a stalking/lurking Lictor - it just doesn't seem like enough. It's written that he "instinctively" knew not to make a martyr out of Cardinal Salem, so for 10 days straight slaughtered his guards to make him aware of the fact he could kill him at anytime, so to drive him insane, so that his panicked demeanour would destroy the morale of his unit, opening up their defences for an attack? It sounds like something Riddick did in his latest movie, there is nothing to suggest that anything is capable of this level of thought underneath instinctive behaviour... why is he even IB at all? When he falls back into Synapse is he suddenly a Hive Mind tool of skirmish Warfare a million times smarter, and it's his instincts that carry him through his subterfuge efforts, Why not just make him Synapse?

Because GW writes faulty rules.

 SHUPPET wrote:
As title says. Instinctive Behaviour creatures are basically described as incapable of decision making, with minor functionality capabilities left on more complex organisms outside of Synapse. So the Deathleaper infiltrating the heart St Caspalen, to terrorise and play mind games with IG leadership to gain his forces the upper hand - how the hell is this possible? Did he sneak a Warrior squadron in with him? He has the decision making capability of a stalking/lurking Lictor - it just doesn't seem like enough. It's written that he "instinctively" knew not to make a martyr out of Cardinal Salem, so for 10 days straight slaughtered his guards to make him aware of the fact he could kill him at anytime, so to drive him insane, so that his panicked demeanour would destroy the morale of his unit, opening up their defences for an attack? It sounds like something Riddick did in his latest movie, there is nothing to suggest that anything is capable of this level of thought underneath instinctive behaviour... why is he even IB at all? When he falls back into Synapse is he suddenly a Hive Mind tool of skirmish Warfare a million times smarter, and it's his instincts that carry him through his subterfuge efforts, Why not just make him Synapse?

The instincts of the Deathleaper are on that level. Not all creatures are mindless, some have murderous intelligence without needed sentient thought like humans.
Making Deathleaper synapse would also draw with it the Shadow im the Warp by default, as the Hive Mind's presence is what causes it. The dread instilled into even mortal men by the Shadow would tip its targets off to its presence, especially if they are a psyker.

How do super advanced robots have a 33% chance of missing with projectiles that move at the speed of light?
Why were the Jokaero allowed to exist?
Why aren't the Tau dead yet?
How do the World Eaters not run out of dudes?
Which Primarch does Trazyn have?
Do space marines still have their junk and... does it work?

These questions, along with the thread title, are the ones that keep us up at night.

On a less serious note, maybe instinctive doesn't necessarily mean stupid.

Thinking about it...

Instinctive behaviour requires a leadership test and Deathleaper will move to Lurk less often than other 'Nids.


The impression I am given is that You, the player are the Hive Mind. Deathleaper is independent to a large degree. Instinctive behaviour gives him behaviour you the Hive Mind don't control (it's Deathleapers choice to lurk as he pleases).

To be fair to GW, I think it works when modelling a degree of freedom for the fella to hunt / retreat how he sees fit.


''forge forge forge away, forge the narrative. Wearily wearily forge away to do the job of a Dev''

Just to explain: I'm talking strictly from a fluff standpoint. He would still derp out outside Synapse range in accordance to everything said about IB in the fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deadshot wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
As title says. Instinctive Behaviour creatures are basically described as incapable of decision making, with minor functionality capabilities left on more complex organisms outside of Synapse. So the Deathleaper infiltrating the heart St Caspalen, to terrorise and play mind games with IG leadership to gain his forces the upper hand - how the hell is this possible? Did he sneak a Warrior squadron in with him? He has the decision making capability of a stalking/lurking Lictor - it just doesn't seem like enough. It's written that he "instinctively" knew not to make a martyr out of Cardinal Salem, so for 10 days straight slaughtered his guards to make him aware of the fact he could kill him at anytime, so to drive him insane, so that his panicked demeanour would destroy the morale of his unit, opening up their defences for an attack? It sounds like something Riddick did in his latest movie, there is nothing to suggest that anything is capable of this level of thought underneath instinctive behaviour... why is he even IB at all? When he falls back into Synapse is he suddenly a Hive Mind tool of skirmish Warfare a million times smarter, and it's his instincts that carry him through his subterfuge efforts, Why not just make him Synapse?

The instincts of the Deathleaper are on that level. Not all creatures are mindless, some have murderous intelligence without needed sentient thought like humans.
Making Deathleaper synapse would also draw with it the Shadow im the Warp by default, as the Hive Mind's presence is what causes it. The dread instilled into even mortal men by the Shadow would tip its targets off to its presence, especially if they are a psyker.

Thanks for the relevant response. That's hells instinctive though - the Shadow makes sense, but couldnt he just be given free will like Stealers, ie a brain to think and actually have some form of decision making? By all rights his instincts should be capable of being no sharper than any ol Lictors, going off what it says about both him and IB, in the fluff.

Geeze thanks for writing off everyone else's responses as irrelevant. You're mixing fluff with in-game rules with regards to instinctive behaviour. I suggested the link between them. It's alright, I won't bother in future as ingratitude doesn't sit too well

Wow get mad, I called his relevant because it was. I appreciate all responses but I made the mistake of not being clear that I was talking from a fluff perspective, hence why some responses were less relevant than others (but this is the background forum after all). It's not explicitly labelled Instinctive Behavoiour in the fluff but it still exists, I couldn't think of a better way to easily describe what I'm talking about in fluff terms. I don't feel that I'm mixing fluff at all although I could see why the confusion, hence my clarification.

Instinctive behavior does not mean stupid. It means instinctive. Deathleaper's instinct is to be a hyper-efficient stealth predator, no doubt boosted by his brain-eating qualities.

I'm not seeing anything in the current, or any past, Tyranid books that states that all instinctive behavior is always low intelligence.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Thanks for the relevant response.

Ouch.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Just to explain: I'm talking strictly from a fluff standpoint. He would still derp out outside Synapse range in accordance to everything said about IB in the fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Deadshot wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
As title says. Instinctive Behaviour creatures are basically described as incapable of decision making, with minor functionality capabilities left on more complex organisms outside of Synapse. So the Deathleaper infiltrating the heart St Caspalen, to terrorise and play mind games with IG leadership to gain his forces the upper hand - how the hell is this possible? Did he sneak a Warrior squadron in with him? He has the decision making capability of a stalking/lurking Lictor - it just doesn't seem like enough. It's written that he "instinctively" knew not to make a martyr out of Cardinal Salem, so for 10 days straight slaughtered his guards to make him aware of the fact he could kill him at anytime, so to drive him insane, so that his panicked demeanour would destroy the morale of his unit, opening up their defences for an attack? It sounds like something Riddick did in his latest movie, there is nothing to suggest that anything is capable of this level of thought underneath instinctive behaviour... why is he even IB at all? When he falls back into Synapse is he suddenly a Hive Mind tool of skirmish Warfare a million times smarter, and it's his instincts that carry him through his subterfuge efforts, Why not just make him Synapse?

The instincts of the Deathleaper are on that level. Not all creatures are mindless, some have murderous intelligence without needed sentient thought like humans.
Making Deathleaper synapse would also draw with it the Shadow im the Warp by default, as the Hive Mind's presence is what causes it. The dread instilled into even mortal men by the Shadow would tip its targets off to its presence, especially if they are a psyker.

Thanks for the relevant response. That's hells instinctive though - the Shadow makes sense, but couldnt he just be given free will like Stealers, ie a brain to think and actually have some form of decision making? By all rights his instincts should be capable of being no sharper than any ol Lictors, going off what it says about both him and IB, in the fluff.

Stealers are more intelligent but still work off instincts. However their instincts are more in line with naturally evolving creatures like ourselves- survive and reproduce. To this effect they actively flee the Hive Fleets and escape on ships bound for other systems. This is because once the invasion is done the Genestealers will be broken down and remade into other stuff and they don't want to die.

Once they reach the prey world, they simply reproduce the only way they know how: infect hosts and control them until they birth a hybrid, and the hybrid births a more Stealer like hybrid, and so on until a pure-blood Genestealer is born.
Genestealers' only advantage over other creatures following their instincts is that they have intelligence and brood telepathy to communicate with each other and control hybrids and infected hosts. Other than that they are no different to other creature in the fleet. This is simply not presented in the rules because the intelligence of the collective brood allows them to plan, strategise and think, and its easier than giving them a special IB rule.


Deathleaper probably has a similar level of intelligence, and probably greater, but the lack of other brood-members to get second opinions means its going off its own instincts.

Awesome! Thank you so much I'll respond with something relevant in a bit - but that not only makes sense on logical level but is also really cool

Who do you think provided the fluff in the Tyranid Codex? The bugs themself don't write mission reports or propaganda so it must be someone else.

I'd guess the "stalked the cardinal" story is from some Imperial report about the action. What seemed to be on purpose might just be the critter eating rank-and-file because the Cardinal really was too well guarded to get at. Then he panicked, his unit was in disorder, and the critter moved in for the kill as it's instincts demand. It looked deliberate to the poor shellshocked survivor telling about it.

Spetulhu wrote:
Who do you think provided the fluff in the Tyranid Codex? The bugs themself don't write mission reports or propaganda so it must be someone else.

I'd guess the "stalked the cardinal" story is from some Imperial report about the action. What seemed to be on purpose might just be the critter eating rank-and-file because the Cardinal really was too well guarded to get at. Then he panicked, his unit was in disorder, and the critter moved in for the kill as it's instincts demand. It looked deliberate to the poor shellshocked survivor telling about it.

Love it! Thanks for the creative content !

I always figured that the lurk test represented him not wanting to turn the enemy IC into a martyr. He shows up, causes fear, maybe kills the guards, then lurks back into hiding waiting to strike again. Don't think of lurk as a sign of unintelligence. Think of it as an in game mechanic to represent his high intelligence.