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It seems it is the current nidzilla builds that is the issue, that could be 'fixed' just by upping the cost of fex devourers by 1 or 2 pts, stopping the 2*TL-dev fex. You'd still be able to do a nidzilla list but with out the ultra efficient dakka-fex. The quite substanial loss of firepower still leaves you with a very tough to kill army, but not one that can so readily hose down anything in front of it. I'd prefer to leave nids as being able to do the all MC list as they just seem to be perfect for that type of ultra huge tank eating aliens.

IG have a really hard time dealing death to TMC lists since their firepower isn't consistent enough to get the job done...and not durable enough to trade shooting phases with TMC lists...especially if the TMC's are camping into cover. RR are absolutely worthless vs TMC's since they are a one shot deal...not only that, but they still need 5's or better to wound even the basic TMC. They are further screwed if the TMC player is bringing Meiotic Spores.


Thats not right at all, a good IG list can easily have enough cheap lascannon/plasma to fight back against monsterous creatures.  Rough riders are good because they put 2 wounds a TMC and then hold it up for atleast another turn.  Vets are monsters vs TMCs, and massed lascannons (8 or more) will take 1 TMC down per turn.  Not to mention the limited rage of the TMC's allow you to do silly things like auto cannon sentinel harrass (where you stay more then 40" away from the tmc's by moving and shooting every turn)

Ive played 2 good TMC players with my guard, and both times I beat them. (it was tough no doubt, but not impossible).

Well, basically, with Tau, Try to get kroot into combat with fexes. There will be much better targets for the fexes to shoot (do not leave kroot as the only target, that's such a waste). Use fire warrior drops to finish off fexes. Stealths are utterly useless, keep them alive so you don't give up victory points.

The first priority of kroot is to assault screen broadsides. You might need to use hammerheads for this as well.

Using tau against TMCs is actually prety easy if you have a good peice of terrain to hid behind. Suits and tank main guns take out the fexes (heavy ones first as the elites cant hurt your MBTs). Everythign else is there to keep the fast guys off your suits.
Dont bother assulting fexes with kroot. They wont last one round with their crapy leadership. Sit them behind a forest and assult any guants that come your way.

That doesn't make sense. You say the problem is the Nidzilla list, but you want to 'fix' the Dakkafex.

If the problem is the Nidzilla list, then fix the zilla list. The dakka fex is strong, but not overpowered, model. There are other ways to 'fix' the nidzilla list, such as making carnifexes a 0-4 option.

Personally, I find it hard to imagine that a list that is as slow and short ranged as a zilla list is still giving so many people so much problem.


The fex needs one too, or it may not be able to move.

The Dakka Fex is what makes the list so dangerous and powerful. That's why so many people say the "fix" to Nidzilla is to remove the Enhanced Senses+2xTL Devourer Fex as an Elite option. Take that down, and it's suddenly just a good list, instead of "top tier".

then you obviosuly have not played it. It is the most powerful list in the game, IMO.



Volume of fire is not the problem for IG, the problem is that in an exchange of fire, they lose. the TMC's put out more firepower while being reduced in output slower than gaurd. What you get is a slipperly slope where the IG become less of an offensive threat at a faster rate then the TMC's do.

IMO, the only match up that is worse for IG than Nidzilla is Crons. Nidzillas do everything the IG fear, and they outshoot them. Plus, all it takes is one decent assault unit getting into the IG gunline and its lights out. Another hugely frustrating factor is how uesless your tanks are against big bugs. The hellhound is good for clearing out the little guys, but the mighty Russ and Demolisher are flipping worthless. A giant cannon in this edition of the rules can only do one wound on the big guys. It is stupid. The best thing to do with your MBT's is charge block the little guys, try and kill them off and stay alive to grab objectives. Dumb. The tank and the MC are meant to be the equivilant of one another but it is so grossly lopsided in the MC's favor.



If you were playing an optimized Zilla list (like the one's Therion or Yak post) with a competent general and beat them both times, i am VERY impressed. That is such a bad match up for gaurd that is not even funny. I tied a VERY good general here playing Nidzillas with my IG by the skin of my teeth and i felt like it was a victory. He got a little sloppy in the end because it looked like i was getting hammered. Had he played tough through the last turn, i would have been toast.

The only time i have ever stomped on a big bug list was when i knew they were coming and i brought a marine list specifically to counter them. My opponant had a full on Nidzilla list, but it was not totally optimized and he made some bad desicions early game that cost him.

Tau would be ok if they could stay out of combat. If you brought a tough Tau army and had favorable terrain, i could see it being a good match up. bad or little terrain and it would be pretty ugly because, again, the Nidzillas keep firing at full efficiency while their opposition does not.

Eldar are the best answer to Nidzilla, IMO.

Posted By coredump on 07/23/2007 10:36 AM

t seems it is the current nidzilla builds that is the issue, that could be 'fixed' just by upping the cost of fex devourers by 1 or 2 pts, stopping the 2*TL-dev fex

That doesn't make sense. You say the problem is the Nidzilla list, but you want to 'fix' the Dakkafex.

If the problem is the Nidzilla list, then fix the zilla list. The dakka fex is strong, but not overpowered, model. There are other ways to 'fix' the nidzilla list, such as making carnifexes a 0-4 option.

I'm not after fixing the dakkafex per se, and never said i was 'fixing' the dakka fex. The issue that most people seem to have is the Nidzilla list, where the nidzilla list is generally defined as being 3 elite dakka fexs plus other TMCs in HQ and heavy.

Upping the dakkafex cost by just a couple of points is not to fix the dakkafex at all, it is to prevent it being taken in the elite slot (ie how it fits in the overall list). By all means take 3 of them still, but they'll be in heavy and therefore cut out your long range firepower. You can still have 6 fexs but you would be forced to use a less brutally efficient eilte fex. By making the dakka fex compete with other much needed options you alter the overal list.

Whilst it is an option, I'd not like to limit the number of TMCs as I think lots of them is a really nice option for the nids, restricting certain combos seems to be a better option. Another one would just be to disallow any range weapons on elite fexs and get rid of the points limit per elite fex, model and use those mega melee fexs as elite assault 'tanks' whilst the heavies use the range options.

Why not say all elite fexes lose a wound and a point of toughness? They stay at the same point lvl to represent the extra value you get out of more of the buggers.

My vote goes to increasing points cost of TL-Devourers. Too effective for points. As others have said, remove 2x TL-Devourers as an option and you've signficantly toned down a Nidzilla force. They will still be viable and still a strong army, but not the abusive list we see now.

And I also still think that Dark Eldar have the best chance against them (but have yet to find a Nidzilla player to prove it).

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Posted By Ozymandias on 07/23/2007 4:00 PM
My vote goes to increasing points cost of TL-Devourers. Too effective for points. As others have said, remove 2x TL-Devourers as an option and you've signficantly toned down a Nidzilla force. They will still be viable and still a strong army, but not the abusive list we see now.

And I also still think that Dark Eldar have the best chance against them (but have yet to find a Nidzilla player to prove it).

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Hey, Oz, I think you're right.

I've played DE for about 6 years or so now.  Recently, I've played against three different varieties of 'Nidzilla:  little bug support heavy, 'stealer support heavy, and Choir.  The only game that I cam close to losing was the 'stealer heavy, and that was a mission that had sustained assault in it.  The never ending stream of 'stealers was a little ridiculous.

DE have way too much S7+ AP2 weaponry, coupled by tons of AP 5 weaponry for the little stuff.  Add to that the resilience of wych squads with agonizers, and you've got a pretty quick end to most "Nidzilla forces.

DE would probably be good against MC's but I rarely seem them fielded any longer.