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jfrazell wrote:Keep down. They could just be reloading.

A brave person would ask what all that just meant in terms of options.

I think everyone eventually agreed that feeder tendrils + more stealers > acid maw + fewer stealers in general.

I'm not sure if anything else was settled.

Well, I'll try to be constructive. I'm not sure how Stealer Shocks will fare in 5th. It just seems that more balanced Tyranid armies will be the power build. Honestly, they weren't all that bad in 4th. And I was so close to proving it at Baltimore until I took my stupid pills.

Anyway, I think armies will evolve into a more balanced look. Plentiful cover saves will favor Gaunt screens instead of EC. The run rule will lead folks back to leaping ST/RC Warriors instead of Ravs. Remember that Warriors were king when they had fleet for a few precious months. They just got dropped in most armies when they lost their Beasts classification in the 4th edition codex. Warriors will essentially have fleet until the turn they charge, and then they still get an 18" charge range. That's plenty fast. The Warriors also supply synapse to keep the Gaunts around. I really think Warriors might be the unit that surprises some people in 5th.

With Gaunts and Warriors possibly filtering back into Tyranid armies, suddenly armies start to look like the synergistic force the designer intended but just missed on creating, thanks to the Shock Troops rule and unnecessary nerfs to Warriors. Now if Biovores and Lictors could just get a fix.

And don't get me started on the Troops-objective thing.

Who wants balance.

The thing that makes the stealer shock interesting to play, for me, is speed and assault power. As long as those two elements can be carried over into 40K 5, the stealer shock should remain viable.

The more I'm looking at it, it looks like that there are going to be bad matchups. But there always were. The skill in using the Stealer Shock list is in minimizing those bad matchups.

The only one that's really worrisome is the Necron flying circus.

Oh I dunno, there are quite a few armies out there I'd not like to face with a stealer shock list.

Sisters of any sort.
Drop armies that come in after I do.
Mobile shooty armies.

That's alot of armies. lol

Well that was a whole lot of nothing~! All that and only the AM vs. FT argument was resolved. I want my ticket money refunded!

I want to chime in on the Acid Maw commentary.

Now I am too late to point ouit that you cannot have both acid Maw and Feeder Tendrils. However this of itself doesnt discount Acid Maw, because you can provide feeder tendrils elsewhere, or split between several units of stealers.

I disagree with the 'no brainer' on taking Acid Maw because its 4pts for an offensive biomorph. This brings me to compare it directly with scything talons.

The talons provide an extra attack, which can rend. Vs rerolling filed to wounds, which can improve the chance to rend from Acid Maw.

Acid Maw does sound impressive, however unless you hit with two or more attacks and subsequently fail to wound with both of them you are getting no advantage over the single extra attack per stealer.
The odds of doing this per stealer are not too good.

Normally you will get one reroll per stealer, which is on par with scything talons. But things also dont look good after the first round of combat, with two attacks and no rerolls.

All in all scything talons are the better point for point investment. Particularly because the change in rending will mean more fights against MEq will 'go the distance' and not result in slaughters from the charge.

Now I havent calculated whether it would be good to have acid maw and scything talons, but at +8pts per stealer it would have to be very good indeed. Personally I am sceptical.

Any thoughts on dealing with vehicles in V5 shock list? If the rumors of redning only adding +D3 with no other factor (ie always hitting rear armor in CC or such) are accurate, then my boyz can barely crack open the lowly drop pod.

Any thoughts on dealing with vehicles in V5 shock list?

I'm pretty sure gunfexes will remain the major source of anti-tank, since it is seeming more and more likely they will still shoot two weapons. Additionally, i think stealer shock will want and need some warp blasts, either from tyrants and/or zoanthorpes.

For the basic shock list, I think people will be shifting away from raveners and adding more gaunts/zoanthorpes. I mean, if you are already taking zoey's may as well make use of the synapse.

Finally, I'm a bit more concerned about horde armies in 5ed then I am vehicles. If the pdf and rumors are to be believed, our main way of assaulting a horde unit goes away (clearing kill zones and setting up charges). That is the main reason I'm planning on having a mixed force ready for 5ed, cause there's more tools for dealing with orks (and the boosted nid horde armies).

C99, thanks for the topic, I have been thinking about this for a bit.

I think FT will be a no brainer, it is only 1 point, so for the same points you get more wounds compared to AM or ST
AM is a suckers bet. For the same points... FT stealers will do *more* damage than AM or ST, even on the first round of combat. Once you are in combat for more than one phase, it really pulls ahead.

I disagree that EC is a no brainer. (Even in 4E. I would be interested in discussing why with you at some point, but probably not in this thread.)
Compared to 4E, most terrain is a 4+ save, but it doesn't block LoS.
OTOH, we can now screen also... I still wont' use it, and I think it is less useful in 5E than 4E.

Some other ideas...

Instead of spending 4 pts on EC, we can spend 6 or 7 points and get a line of scuttling gaunts. (Sp/T)
While this seems good in theory, I don't think I like it. One, you need to use 1-2 troop slots.
But the real problem is slowing down the stealers.
First, they have to start 1-2" farther back, to give the gaunts space to set up. And chances are some of those stealer broods are going to outfleet the gaunts. So you will have to slow them down even more.

Outflank:
To me this is a big question... is it better to scuttle and charge: You are open to getting shot, but you are guaranteed to have all the broods on the table.
Or outflank, you get to 'start' closer, but who knows how they will come on. A lictor or two may prove quite useful.

CC Fex:
With run, a cc fex is a bit more usable... still not great, but perhaps worth playing with again. (also useful against tanks.)


I am thinking.... taking some CC fexes, and 'running' them up the middle. Then using scuttling stealers to Outflank on the sides. A lictor or two will help with the stealers, and be able to hit the back center, the hardest spot for the stealers and fexes.
I am not saying this is the next GT winning army.... just trying out new combos, in case it proves effective.

A friend of mine was running a devilfex, and wanted a CC fex. Instead he split the difference and went TLDev/ST on two fexes. He places them together, and shoots with them until he gets into range to assault.
Suboptimal in 4E, but wonder if it would fit in this scenario.