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You can always do what I do: Use the nice "Ignore" button for Mr. Stelek. It won't stop you from seeing his posts quoted in other peoples posts, but if enough of us use that button it won't matter anymore.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I say I'm not using house rules, and you say I am.

Uhhh, maybe I'm really not using house rules?

I give what I get is my reply to the rest.

I really was asking if you wanted a picture to demonstrate, but you seem determined to tell me where to go and what to do with myself.

/shrug

Or you can ignore Ozy, he likes to follow me around and troll.

Sure makes Dakka a better place, having so many people following me around telling me off.

There's also been a lot of talk from folks wanting to remove a lot of the additional weapons from their tanks, specifically from IG players. If these players do remove the weapons, this would give more credence that Lootas are still valuable anti tank, sans armor 14.

Does the rule exist, if you get one immobilized result, the next one counts as weapon destroyed? It just seems Lootas will still have a purpose and, very likely, a better cover save.

Think the rules are pretty clear on what you can shoot or not with the true LOS. If you see anything of the hull or anything on the legs-arms-head-torso, even 1 mm of it.

Moving terrain and declaring area forrest totally blockig line of sight definently sounds like a house rule, even if adopted at some GTs. Also, wouldnt it make forrests the type of terrain that everyone would want?

On he ork topic, ofc you can hide an entire army behind a long line of 30 orcs, that doesnt really take a picture to prove does it? But if the first unit gets shot down a bit it will be hard to hide everything from the last units to fire in the same shooting phase.(if it is a hwy gunline)

Kallbrand wrote:Think the rules are pretty clear on what you can shoot or not with the true LOS. If you see anything of the hull or anything on the legs-arms-head-torso, even 1 mm of it.

Moving terrain and declaring area forrest totally blockig line of sight definently sounds like a house rule, even if adopted at some GTs. Also, wouldnt it make forrests the type of terrain that everyone would want?

On he ork topic, ofc you can hide an entire army behind a long line of 30 orcs, that doesnt really take a picture to prove does it? But if the first unit gets shot down a bit it will be hard to hide everything from the last units to fire in the same shooting phase.(if it is a hwy gunline)

Unless you've modeled your blocking orks as cylinders, even that won't help - you can't pack them in tighter than base-to-base, and that will still let your opponent see past them. And then, of course, we've got a WHFB-like bonus for elevation now - the "snipers on the rooftops" can shoot over your blockers without any cover save at all (depending on range and elevation).

You dont have to be totally blocked so noone can see anything past them, its enough to have the unit in the way to get the 4+ coversave. Even if it is thru the 2" gaps you will be leaving to make the line stretch.

lootas are going to do what they were origionally ment to.. erase infantry squads.

the forcing of individual saves.. if you throw 30 dice at a 10 man squad.. they're going to have to take saves on their more valuable units weather they like it or not

as for the stormboyz.. they have DISGUSTING movement as it is. I wouldn't take more than 1 mob but they're still damn good
zaggstruk is a good consideration now

I wouldn't bag on trukks too hard. they still move 18" which is fast as hell. they can still move 12" and fire their rokkit which is fantastic.

and on top of that.. when our trukks get popped... which they will!! our boyz can run to catch up with the rest of the army.

the warboss biker isn't going to be as impossible to target as he was, but still able to shred tanks like he used to.

I think the bigger blows are to the SAG now that it scatters 2d6-2 and the battlewagons for the same reason. that hurts a lot
depending on the effectiveness of the SAG I may drop it.. but it is a great model and one of the few places we get reliable AP2 goodness.

mega armor nobz may actually make a comeback, since the new S&P rule doesn't prohibit them from gaining the +1 for charging

I think its going to be nessessary for a KOS to field either buggies or deffkoptas. not only for their great anti tank uses but to screen the trukks as they advance. it won't block LOS but it will provide a 4+ cover save all the time which should mitigate a lot of issues.

now since all walkers can run.. killakans become a lot better. if you don't have a shot with the KMB you can always run the squad forward. however the vehicle squad rules are pretty unforgiving.

grotzoookas got better I think. multiple str 6 blasts even if they scatter are going to cause plenty of damage.

if the FAQ says that we get to use the deffrolla when we ram.. whoo boy that'll be fantastic. given battlewagons aren't fast vehicles but so what. moving 13" and causing d6 str 10 hits on something is going to be mass beatings.

I wonder what kind of buff snikrot will get since his ability is redundant.

overall I think we actually get stronger. our codex was written with 5th in mind and I think we're going to do fine.

NaZ

I don't think Snikrot's ability is redundant. Kommandos have to roll for which side of the board to come on. IIRC, Snikrot can choose, including your opponent's board edge. Seems he is still a good buy.

As for the ramming with a deffrolla, why move 13" before hand, you've far more chance of blowing yourself up. If you move 1" you still get the d6 strength 10 hits. It's not very proppa though.

Just wondering if I could bring something up if I may.
Been writing a new army list for Orks with 5th ed in mind and im thinking about the grot shield.
Of course there is the debate of what if you fluff your run roll.
What I want to ask is if Grots are really that good? Just looking at the stats IMO they seem like a rather expensive sacrifice squad

Hear me out
grot 3 points

ork boy 6 points
for an extra 3 points you get 2 ws 1st 2 tuff 1 atk and the mob rule with furious charge and being effected by the waghh. Also some what of armour save
Also possibly a nob with a boss pole to keep the unit together.

Now I know that this is suposed to be a sacrifical unit and that they can hold objectives and even constest them which is there strongest point IMO.
However if any one decides to shoot at the grot shield they will die v quickly.
Hitting on 3 wounding on 2 with prity much everything. Will probably have to start LD checks of 6 for the first check. Then your squig starts eating your unit as you attempt to rally.
There is also that objective where every unit counts as 1 point and that means you dirt cheap grot squad will be the same amount of points as you massive shielded boys squad.

Any hows I will still use the grot shield and see how it works and I will probably put a KFF in there as well but im not going to do this interlaced squad idea as I would like people at the local GW to like me
Whats you views

Gaseraki wrote:Just wondering if I could bring something up if I may.
Been writing a new army list for Orks with 5th ed in mind and im thinking about the grot shield.
Of course there is the debate of what if you fluff your run roll.
What I want to ask is if Grots are really that good? Just looking at the stats IMO they seem like a rather expensive sacrifice squad

Hear me out
grot 3 points

ork boy 6 points

Try it from this perspective: your enemy has to put very nearly the same effort into killing a grot as they do an ork - they have to target them, roll to hit, and roll to wound (somewhat easier to wound, yes). So, your opponent has two realistic choices, when dealing with a grot screen:

1) Ignore them, and dump fire into the (4+ cover) boyz coming up behind the grots; or
2) Dump fire into them for a turn, to create a hole in the screen and/or to inflict enough casualties that the grots will need to make a morale check. But the morale check isn't made until the end of the phase, so you are still getting the benefit of 4+ cover until they break.

Grots buy you a turn of cover, minimum. In some cases, you may get additional utility out of them later (either because your enemy ignored them, or because they actually rallied in time to accomplish something), but you're not buying them for those scenarios - they give you a turn's worth of 4+ cover save, at much less than the cost of using Orks to screen.

Yeah, but if you're orks, you probably already have 5+ cover coming with you even without grots.

What's the KFF run? (As in, how many grots can you buy for it, and the mek carrying it?)

85 Points on the KFF Mek. Not sure on how many grots that buys... But consider that with the grots you're also dependent on the lowest run roll you get for extra units, whereas with a Mek you can just leave a trail to the Mek and keep one Ork within 6".

That's over 20 grots, then.

Remember that the grots are probably only a first turn screen. The "disparate run roll" problem is less of a problem then you might think - the grots DON'T have to be in BtB, and you can even have some of the boyz out front, so long as a majority of the unit is still behind the grots.