Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

shoey9797 wrote:How is it stupid? Economically speaking, GW prices are outrageous. If you knew anything about economics, you would know about consumer surplus and you would know that some people have no problem paying high prices. But the market clearing price is very wrong. And are you to believe that "design, marketing, and retail" costs are that high? What sort of marketing and retail do you think GW has? They have no marketing aside from in-store and hobby shop. Their "design" is simply the input of a dozen artists and sculptors. Electronics actually have HIGH design, research, and marketing costs, and still are reasonably priced because of competition. GW is simply a competitive monopoly who use their fluff and reputation to charge ridiculous prices for their goods.

Did you read my post, or just skim through posts looking for someone who might be disagreeing with you?

It's a poor question because it can be legitimately answered in a lot of different ways. 'No, they're not overpriced as I can afford it and all my other hobbies cost lots more'. 'Yes, they're overpriced because you're paying $50 for three plastic sprues.' 'Yes, they're overpriced because I know of lots of people who'd happily buy GW armies if they were a bit cheaper.'

Each possible answer can lead to a whole new debate, but at this point we're all talking past each other because we're answering the question from many different angles.

By the way, don't use market clearing to analyse a single firm. It's used to examine a whole market, with the assumption that any individual firm cannot meaningfully adjust supply (and so is stuck being a price taker). It can't be used to examine a single company, as it works on the concept 'with fixed production of 10,000 units a day we should set the price at $1 to sell 10,000 units'. But GW is capable of changing its production quantity by as much as it wants, making any analysis on that grounds useless.

Oh, and GW isn't a monopoly as there are other miniatures companies. GW is a dominant firm and as such the situation is quite different.

I avoided calling folks when they were throwing around the terms earlier, but then you suggested I knew nothing about economics, while getting some really basic concepts quite wrong.

And yeah, GW's cost are primarily in retail and marketing. That's a reality for just about any company selling consumer goods in the modern economy... The comparison is a basic electronic device, like a calculator, which is cheaper and vastly more complex. Thing is, that calculator isn't being sold in a store in the main retail section of town.

Kilkrazy wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Huh? At recent exchange rates of 1 GBP = 2 USD, you say Pig Iron is $28 USD for 10 models?

That's the same as what I pay the War Store for 10 Space Marines (10 SM for $28), and *twice* as much as what I pay for Imperial Guard (20 IG for $28).

If you want to make the claim that GW is more expensive comparing generic infantry, you need to compare with the 20-man boxes of plastic Cadians and Catachans. Relatively speaking, those are very well-priced.

So far, all you've done is demonstrate that GW is a better deal than non-GW.

If Pig Iron really were 1/5 the price of GW, then I could get 100 Pig Iron infantry for the same $28 USD / 14 GBP. Is that what you meant to type ("100)", but you dropped a zero ("10")?

I didn't say Pig Iron were 1/5 the price of GW. The Pig Iron figures are metal, and slightly cheaper per individual figure than plastic GW. For example, plastic Tau Fire Warriors = £18 for 12. Most individual metal GW figures are £2-£3 each.

Compare Fire Warriors with Perry Brothers ACW which are £12 for 36 figures.

BTW you can't directly compare £10 retail price with $20 since the £10 includes VAT at 17.5%. Untaxed, the £10 would cost £8.51 which at current exchange rate ($1.97 to £1) is $16.76, add 5% sales tax = $17.60.

Metal vs plastic makes no difference to the consumer - all that matters is model counts per dollar (or pound). If you want to use Pig Iron, I'm again going to point to Cadians and Catachans which are less than 1 GBP per model (20 models for 18 GBP). If you need to deliberately choosing a lower model-count box (Tau / SM) to make your point, then perhaps your point isn't that good.

Focusing on GW metals is very strange, as GW is primarily selling plastic models. It's like trying to discuss why any other lower-volume product costs more than the mass-market product from any other given manufacturer. If you want to say that GW metal costs more than GW plastic, that's fine.

If you're going to use non-heroic historical ACW models as your reference point, then you need to again reference to something closer within the GW range, such as LotR plastics.

Similarly, VAT is irrelevant. That $20 USD typically incurs a sales tax of 5 to 10%, and is paid for with post-tax dollars (income tax and payroll tax).

MagickalMemories wrote:GW models (GW EVERYTHING) are overpriced.

For those that say, "Compared to other companies, they're not," or something similar, I offer this:

Most other companies are overpriced, as well.

Just because the cost of one company's product is similar to the cost of another company's product, that doesn't automatically qualify one as fairly priced. I potentially qualifies both as overpriced.

You can't say Gasoline is fairly priced because every other retailer in the market offers similar pricing. You can only say thqt it's no more expensive than it is at "the other place."

Pretty much by definition, as a commodity product, gasoline *must* be fairly priced. It may be more expensive than what you *want* to pay, but that's no measure of it being unfairly priced.

And it's the same with GW or other models.

Nobody forces you to buy minis. If you get fewer minis, that's probably because the cost of gasoline has gone up in the interim.

And by no means has GW minis prices gone up like gasoline... I remember $1 gas, so gas has gone up 5x. So relatively speaking, GW minis are awfully cheap, considering they haven't even doubled yet...

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Metal vs plastic makes no difference to the consumer - all that matters is model counts per dollar (or pound). If you want to use Pig Iron, I'm again going to point to Cadians and Catachans which are less than 1 GBP per model (20 models for 18 GBP). If you need to deliberately choosing a lower model-count box (Tau / SM) to make your point, then perhaps your point isn't that good.

Focusing on GW metals is very strange, as GW is primarily selling plastic models. It's like trying to discuss why any other lower-volume product costs more than the mass-market product from any other given manufacturer. If you want to say that GW metal costs more than GW plastic, that's fine.

If you're going to use non-heroic historical ACW models as your reference point, then you need to again reference to something closer within the GW range, such as LotR plastics.

Similarly, VAT is irrelevant. That $20 USD typically incurs a sales tax of 5 to 10%, and is paid for with post-tax dollars (income tax and payroll tax).

I accounted for sales tax, giving a worked example.

If you want to include the effect of take home pay, the USA has a relatively low rate of income and social tax compared to the UK and Europe. If we get into that area, we need to look at pay rates in different countries, and international purchasing power parity calculations, which is very boring.

You say that users don't care if a model is plastic or metal. Many users do care, they percieve metal to have a higher value, justifying a higher price.

You pick Cadians as an example of cheap plastics. I offer Terminators as an example of expensive plastics. I note that Cadians are about 2-3 times more expensive per figure than historical plastic figures of 25-28mm scale.

I don't really understand what you are arguing about. It is absolutely clear that GW models are priced well above the level of similar models (it makes no difference if they are "heroic" or plastic or metal) from a number of historical and SF manufacturers.

The only models that are similar in price are specialist ranges such as Infinity, Warcaster and Hordes (I don't know those games.) They are games that were born and are dragged in the slipstream of GW. They have the same concept of a game with unique IP, fluff and dedicated rules and miniatures. It is the whole bundle that attracts players. This works differently to historicals -- where players are used to buying figures from one company, rules from another, uniform guides from a third, campaign guides from a fourth and so on -- and it helps explain the price difference.

The fact that the LoTR figures are cheaper than 40K and WHFB shows that GW could price figures lower. (Let's not talk about production costs of smaller figures. We both know the amount of material in a 25mm versus a 28mm figure makes no practical difference compared to the other costs.)

The reason GW prices the 40K models at the current level is because players keep buying them. It's the same with Infinity and those other games. The "bundle" nature of the game and the attractiveness of the IP enable the producer to command a premium price.

This can go wrong. Rackham apparently overdid it and priced itself out of the market. They had to file for the French equivalent of Chapter 11 protection.

However, as I said in my first post, I do not consider GW figures over-priced. They are selling at roughly the marker clearing rate. This is the correct price in economic terms.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Pretty much by definition, as a commodity product, gasoline *must* be fairly priced. It may be more expensive than what you *want* to pay, but that's no measure of it being unfairly priced.

You're saying fair pricing is whatever the market can bare? And OPEC is a cartel which determines prices and the companies all agree to charge the same relative price. Gas isn't a fair market because they don't compete with each other. Not to mention that nobody else produces GW miniatures, sure there are other games companies. Let's see what happens to the price if their IP became public domain.

Kilkrazy wrote:The fact that the LoTR figures are cheaper than 40K and WHFB shows that GW could price figures lower. (Let's not talk about production costs of smaller figures. We both know the amount of material in a 25mm versus a 28mm figure makes no practical difference compared to the other costs.)

On a per unit scale the price may be negligible. But .01$ of plastic multiplied by 10 million units is a cost savings of 100K. And the LotR figures are less detailed.

I was wrong about the B&M stores, according to the 2007 prospectus they account for half of the GW revenue.
*information from GW corp site
(which provides tons of interesting information)

jabbakahut wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Pretty much by definition, as a commodity product, gasoline *must* be fairly priced. It may be more expensive than what you *want* to pay, but that's no measure of it being unfairly priced.

You're saying fair pricing is whatever the market can bare? And OPEC is a cartel which determines prices and the companies all agree to charge the same relative price. Gas isn't a fair market because they don't compete with each other.

Not to mention that nobody else produces GW miniatures, sure there are other games companies. Let's see what happens to the price if their IP became public domain.

If the price is truly unfair and overpriced, people won't pay it. Demand will drop, creating a relative oversupply, and lowering prices. That is what market pricing does. And as these are commodities, then by definition, the market price *is* the fair price. To argue otherwise belies basic economics.

And OPEC doesn't determine all of the prices. Not every seller follows OPEC guidelines. Some choose to produce more, for greater income. Some countries subsidize or tax. Plus, there are are refineries that add value and cost, along with a distribution chain that leads to additional variation. No, gas is a very fair market. It's just that you're not happy dealing with the fact that it's a limited resource that traditionally has been managed very poorly, and therefore grossly underpriced.

Given that GW simply follows IP / Copyright laws, their IP will *never* become public domain. Disney created their IP long before GW, and their lawyers will *never* allow a lapse in copyright resulting in any of their IP to ever become public Therefore, GW has nothing to worry about.

JohnHwangDD wrote:If the price is truly unfair and overpriced, people won't pay it. Demand will drop, creating a relative oversupply, and lowering prices. That is what market pricing does. And as these are commodities, then by definition, the market price *is* the fair price. To argue otherwise belies basic economics.

Plastic miniatures are not a commodity. A Ferrari is a luxory, by your logic a Ferrari could never be un-fairly priced because someone will always buy it.

It's true, this entire argument is flawed. What you consider to be a fair price for you to enjoy a luxury; cannot be ubiquitous.

Economics has nothing to do with fairness. That is why it is called the "dismal science".

There are plenty of model figures costing less than GW. People can go and buy them if they want to.

jabbakahut wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:If the price is truly unfair and overpriced, people won't pay it. Demand will drop, creating a relative oversupply, and lowering prices. That is what market pricing does. And as these are commodities, then by definition, the market price *is* the fair price. To argue otherwise belies basic economics.

Plastic miniatures are not a commodity.

A Ferrari is a luxory, by your logic a Ferrari could never be un-fairly priced because someone will always buy it.

It's true, this entire argument is flawed. What you consider to be a fair price for you to enjoy a luxury; cannot be ubiquitous.

Gas, however, is, which is what I was specifically responding to, as I quoted.

A Ferrari is a luxury, but it is still affected by market forces. Specifically, Ferraris are limited by the number of people who can afford to spend $200k+ on a new car. This is not a large market, and Ferrari isn't the only manufacturer of automobiles in this category. Yes, the very rich are less affected by price than us mortals. But market forces still have impact.

But yes, the entire argument is flawed. I'd completely agree with that.

As above, I would generally consider a market-set price to be fair. If it's higher than what I can afford, I don't buy it.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Given that GW simply follows IP / Copyright laws, their IP will *never* become public domain. Disney created their IP long before GW, and their lawyers will *never* allow a lapse in copyright resulting in any of their IP to ever become public Therefore, GW has nothing to worry about.

I know that Disney lawyers are working really hard to punish infringement but their copyrighted material will enter the public domain as their lobbyists cannot guarantee an extended copyright protection worldwide again and again. They many have managed to "protect" Disney IP until now but you can't just extrapolate that into the future for the sake of your argument.

Games Workshop has to worry about this although not for a long time. I think 120 years from the date of creation or publication (whichever is shorter counts) at the moment.

I just wish that I could buy a 3000 pt army for less than a thousand dollars thank you very much... (barring of course the apocalypse sets) And while I find their paints are of good quality compared to the other stuff I have bought (especially those wicked washes... those things make painting so bloody quick!) That I only ever use their paints, even for my WW II models.(Flames of War and 1:72 Scale vehicles and aircraft)

Though I do beleive that thier plastics are to expensive for what you get... a decent 1500 pt 40k army costs you around 400+ dollars. While a decent 2000 pt Warhammer army costs you around 600 dollars. I could very easily buy good napoleanics at the same scale for half the price... Or Romans for that matter.

Mario wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Given that GW simply follows IP / Copyright laws, their IP will *never* become public domain. Disney created their IP long before GW, and their lawyers will *never* allow a lapse in copyright resulting in any of their IP to ever become public Therefore, GW has nothing to worry about.

I know that Disney lawyers are working really hard to punish infringement but their copyrighted material will enter the public domain as their lobbyists cannot guarantee an extended copyright protection worldwide again and again. They many have managed to "protect" Disney IP until now but you can't just extrapolate that into the future for the sake of your argument.

Games Workshop has to worry about this although not for a long time. I think 120 years from the date of creation or publication (whichever is shorter counts) at the moment.

For a corporation it's 90 years from the copyright date. For an individual it's 70 years from the date of the creator's death.

Disney managed to get the extension to 90 years to protect Mickey Mouse, who has a copyright date of (I think) 1928. This means MM will pass into the public domain in 2018. Disney's lawyers are probably preparing their next copyright extension ampaign right now. Who knows if it will succeed.

Some people think copyright should last indefinitely. Others think it already lasts longer than it needs to.

jabbakahut wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:The fact that the LoTR figures are cheaper than 40K and WHFB shows that GW could price figures lower. (Let's not talk about production costs of smaller figures. We both know the amount of material in a 25mm versus a 28mm figure makes no practical difference compared to the other costs.)

On a per unit scale the price may be negligible. But .01$ of plastic multiplied by 10 million units is a cost savings of 100K. And the LotR figures are less detailed.

I was wrong about the B&M stores, according to the 2007 prospectus they account for half of the GW revenue.
*information from GW corp site
(which provides tons of interesting information)

I don't really understand your argument.

Are you saying that a 40K figure costs 1 cent more to make than an LoTR figure so it should be priced 2 cents higher, to be a fair price, something like that?

sebster wrote:

By the way, don't use market clearing to analyse a single firm. It's used to examine a whole market, with the assumption that any individual firm cannot meaningfully adjust supply (and so is stuck being a price taker). It can't be used to examine a single company, as it works on the concept 'with fixed production of 10,000 units a day we should set the price at $1 to sell 10,000 units'. But GW is capable of changing its production quantity by as much as it wants, making any analysis on that grounds useless.

Oh, and GW isn't a monopoly as there are other miniatures companies. GW is a dominant firm and as such the situation is quite different.

I argue that GW is a monopoly supplier of 40K stuff.

The price of 40K figures cannot be explained by reference to the overall wargame miniature market. There is a very wide variety of figures from different makers, and most of them are significantly cheaper. If price of figures was the determining factor in sales, GW would not be selling anything.

As such we can examine the 40K market for the clearing price.

Kilkrazy wrote:

jabbakahut wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:We both know the amount of material in a 25mm versus a 28mm figure makes no practical difference compared to the other costs.

On a per unit scale the price may be negligible. But .01$ of plastic multiplied by 10 million units is a cost savings of 100K.

I don't really understand your argument.

Sorry I wasn't clear, see your bolded statement above, I'm saying you are wrong, cost of plastic is a factor.

OK, I understand your point.

Yes, it is true that a bigger figure has more raw materials in it.

However, GW do not reflect this in their pricing. For example 12 Tau Fire Warriors cost the same as 20 Cadian IG.

By GW's own estimation, raw materials account for under 3% of the cost of a model. With production cost of a model being relatively small, it is not worth accouting for the even smaller fraction of the cost made up by the materials.

I, too, feel the question has been presented poorly, and a blanket "Yes" or "No" is not a useful answer. There are GW kits that feel like they're worth the cost, and others that feel like ripoffs (old metal characters come to mind as a particularly vivid example).

For the sake of simplicity, there are 2 answers. I wasn't going to make a poll for each GW line. And I completely agree with killcrazy. That is where I was coming from. Raw materials cannot possibly be the source of GW pricing because kits with a TON of plastic can cost less than kits with little.

So either you think GW prices fairly, or they don't price fairly. Maybe the question should have been fairness not over-priced.

[quote=Kilkrazy
I argue that GW is a monopoly supplier of 40K stuff.

mikhaila wrote:[quote=Kilkrazy
I argue that GW is a monopoly supplier of 40K stuff.

How so? Any manufacturer can then be claimed to have a monopoly on their product. Budweiser is a monopoly supplier of Budwieser beer. Mcdonalds has a monopoly on Big Mac's. etc etc. WOTC is a monopoly supplier of MTG.

Kilkrazy wrote:
What is your explanation for why GW figures cost such a lot and keep selling?

Simple answer: Demand

Medium answer: I don't think they cost a lot, compared to the amount of money that the people buying them have. It's excess money, same as the hundreds of dollars a year they spend on pizza, video games, beer, cigarettes, and movies. They choose to spend it on gaming, and they like the GW games, or the GW models, or the GW fluff, or a combination of all 3. Or maybe just playing the game that their friends are playing. GW isn't competing for the dollars they need for food or shelter.

Long answer: No time, off to work to sell a bunch of GW stuff to customers, sculpt some beards on my Ork Pirates, and put some hours into a Nurgle Plaguetower.

Goodness this is another sad strange bashing fest that seems so popular...

3 main points that pop out at me:

1. The hobby supplies (glue etc...) are somewhat more expensive than what you can get elsewhere- but its a matter of convienience- you can get it there and then instead of another trip. Its why a small bottle of coke costs £1.50 at the train station on my way to work where it is convienient, while for £1 I can buy a much bigger bottle from a slightly less convienent supermarket

2. The "old prices" arguement.
The "I coudl buy 3 rhinos for £10" arguement I hear all the time... how long ago was that?
first of all the models are (i'm sure you'll agree) a wee bit better. I was looking at some of my old stuff, and anyone who claims that they are just as good need to hand over their rose-tinted specs

If you take into account inflation- alot of the sets GW produces have kind of settled- the £18 boxes that are the norm right now replaced £15 boxes an age ago (anyone give the exact time- i know its many many years)
In that time- so so many things have raised in price. I used to be able to go to a movie for £5, now it costs me £12
I could travel to and from work for £3.50 per week, that now only buys me a day ticket
and don't even get me started on petrol.

In the grand scheme of things, GW has raised the prices slightly to remain profitable, but have remained pretty indifferent to inflation- its part of being a niche market that allows them to do so.

Finally my 3rd point is that whole profit margin.
Yes if you take the raw materials and such- a set of plastic guys is dirt cheap...
however where did you buy it?
Indie retailers have their own issues of costs and profits etc...
GW direct- probably the best bet for GW for profit in that they are paying for their HQ, the shipping and the bloke on the phone

As for GW stores- these are incredible that they function- and alot barely make a profit- but they remain open because GW wants them to be in place to recruit people into the hobby and provide a service that isn't avalible anywhere else.

Now I understand that over in the states, you guys don't have as many GW stores, and they are pretty far and wide- but to give the example here in the UK-
GW stores will give you somewhere to play, usually with friendly staff (theres always some bad apples but tell me one place where there isn't) who will be willing to help you out with anything you need (painting tips, modeling tips, army building etc...)
alot of people fail to see the service those guys provide because its not something they are interested in or believe in or worse case---- don't even know it exists.
Yet it does exist, it takes place, its provided and has to be paid for. That is where GW spends a hell of alot of their money and that is what sets GW apart from everyone else- their own stores that are run not just to sell their products but most importantly to SUPPORT them.

Bignutter wrote:If you take into account inflation- alot of the sets GW produces have kind of settled- the £18 boxes that are the norm right now replaced £15 boxes an age ago (anyone give the exact time- i know its many many years)
In that time- so so many things have raised in price. I used to be able to go to a movie for £5, now it costs me £12
I could travel to and from work for £3.50 per week, that now only buys me a day ticket
and don't even get me started on petrol.

In the grand scheme of things, GW has raised the prices slightly to remain profitable, but have remained pretty indifferent to inflation- its part of being a niche market that allows them to do so.

If you take into inflation, but they are indifferent to inflation? Not sure of your argument here, but don't kid yourself, GW price increses have nothing to do with inflaction, the Skeleton boxset now £18 started at £10. The Rhinos have received a recent resculpt, but the originals were finally taken off sale at £15, which is a jump from 3 for £10 even if it was a long time ago. And boy was that Rhino mould tired (but that's for the miniature quality thread).

Finally my 3rd point is that whole profit margin.
Yes if you take the raw materials and such- a set of plastic guys is dirt cheap...
however where did you buy it?
Indie retailers have their own issues of costs and profits etc...
GW direct- probably the best bet for GW for profit in that they are paying for their HQ, the shipping and the bloke on the phone

As for GW stores- these are incredible that they function- and alot barely make a profit- but they remain open because GW wants them to be in place to recruit people into the hobby and provide a service that isn't avalible anywhere else.

GW have massive overheads because of their city-centre shops, they must cost an absolute fortune to maintain. They keep them there for a highstreet presence because they wouldn't get the custom online and would be fighting every other manufacturer on an equal footing. The company has been losing money in recent years. But it's always the same, they see they are losing money so jack the prices up, people buy less or are put off altogether. So they jack the prices up again because they are taking less money. It's a bad business model and ultimately not sustainable. If they actually lowered the prices they may well turn over a lot more stock and take more money, simple price rises are proven not to be the solution.

"I wish my hobby was cheaper, but it has not yet become too expensive. " - too right!

I voted yes, to me I wish it was cheaper. However as poeple have already spoken

GAMESWORKSHOP IS NOT OVER PRICED. GW sells models and supplies at a huge profit, however people still buy said products so they are not over priced, simply more towards expensive. If they were over priced they would not sell. Plastic tanks etc - compared to buying a tank from say air fix, yes they are several times more money. However, it is a different product. You wouldn't compared the price of eggs to that of a holiday in space.....

an airfix tank, is a lightweight, fragile display peice. A gw tank is a more robust gaming piece. Don't believe me? check out the thinkness of the plastic. You could stand on several gw tanks without causing them too much damage if they're put together correctly, do that to an airfix tank?

Plastic figures are now the price of old metal ones, yet people buy them. If they were overpriced they wouldn't be bought, and remember we're still buying in a time of high inflation, the money going on them is disposable, if you don't have it you don't buy. Yet they sell, so the value for money isn't overpriced, it's just not cheap. It may only cost pennies to make, but if you could sell your house for what it cost, or 2000% more what would you do? GW is abusiness, when people stop buying their products they will lower the cost.

As for the 54mm comments that they are inferior, remember this and other speacialist games are a sideline, and so wont usually have the top sculptors working on them anyway. They're there to provide a 'holiday' when someone becomes tired of the main games. If you're into the 40k fluff (hamster dead!) but want a break, gw supply you with a 40k break - bfg, so instead of playing warmachine for a bit or whatever, they still have a chance of keeping you as a loyal customer, and guess what, it works, meaning that the other companies not only have GW as a competitor, but that GW will also be 2nd choice for many gamers, it's not just the one barrier, it's two barriers.

Compared to hornby, if anything it's cheaper, anyone seen the price of a train these days? Yes te scenics may be cheaper, but what goods a good board without anything on it?

White Dwarf - I had a good look at opther mags yesterday, the one's that interested me as a 40K player, were either the same or double the cost! In fact the only one i was tempted to buy was £8, wds £4. not going to happen. Yes the quality is better, but £8 for me really is too expensive. I really wish WD was better, but then again I won't pay £4 for it, I wont pay for the PVA and most of the GW tools and brushes. That makes these, and only these items overpriced, but for me, not for the market.

I'd like GW to be cheaper, but it's not and I still pay. tuff luck. Don't like it, don't play it, find another hobby.

GW will keep razing prices until they start seeing sales volume nose dive as a result. With a shrinking marketplace that is all they can do to maintain revenue.

City center shops operate on the 1 in 1000 principal. That is to say that one in every thousand who walk into the shop may become a new FANATICAL customer. It's the same principal used in direct mail marketing. These shops need to be in high traffic areas like city centers because only there will they see the volume of people.

A fanatical customer is GWs bread and butter... You... Me... We pretty much will buy anything GW produces regardless of price. Take Forgeworld for example. GW releases Apocalypse with all the latest greatest super heavy rules. Next thing you know FW has to put a caveat on the website explaining that due to increased demand you will have to wait 30 days for your 300 dollar Baineblade. Don't complain if you choose next day shipping and it takes a month to arrive.

All this talk of supply and demand and production cost does not really apply to GWs business model. Its more about economies of scale and customer loyalty. Plastic army men are 5 dollars a bag at the 5 and 10.

Just wait and see how many new horde armies start appearing in game clubs after the release of 5th.

The real question is "Do YOU spend too much on plastic army men?" The price of the minis has little to do with the answer. You would just buy more.

Don’t drink and shop GW/FW online is my best advice.

-beef

I don't think they're overpriced. Sure, it is pricey but it's a pricey hobby. And even the "cheaper" other games like warmachine are getting pricey too. I make a very average income and I still manage to get my GW fix and keep all my bills paid. If I can do it, I'm sure other folks can. It just seems to me the people that cry the loudest about the prices are the obsessed folks that have to fill their closet space with unopened boxes of army men that they "will get to someday". Buy what you need when you need it, instead of everything all at once. I allow myself $50 a month for gaming stuff. Doesn't seem like much but it's really all I need. And when there's something special like the baneblade, I can still afford it because I don't sink every spare penny into the hobby... or I can save my $50 from the previous month and blow it on something bigger the following month.

I play Hordemachine as well.

The big selling point in getting me into that was my friends saying "The rules cost $20 and a starter set is like $40! It cost tons less than GW!"

Then the second book came out..then the third. I was like "Guys, this is just as bad as GW, you only say its not because you have an "us against them" attitude."

The reply "Well, maybe, but unlike GW you don't have to buy a new core rule book every 3 years!"

Then Remix hit. I refrained from the "I told you so's".

So yeah, while GW is expensive, I don't feel they are an order of magnitude above thier competators, just more visible than their competators.

Necros wrote:It just seems to me the people that cry the loudest about the prices are the obsessed folks that have to fill their closet space with unopened boxes of army men that they "will get to someday".

Haha. I used to be one of those people. Now that GW prices are sky high and bitz service is gone - I'm digging into my reserves instead of buying new. If GW (Canada) didn't raise their prices so high, I'd probably still be buying from them. Due to the weak US dollar, GWUS prices are fairly palatable to me actually. They remind me of Canadian prices from 3rd edition, close to 10 years ago!

Sebster hits the nail on the head: There is NO SUCH THING as a "Fair Price". There is not a definition of fair that applies here. Ever.
Even "Is it over priced?" is a pointless question because it is extremely personal in it's answer. If someone is willing to pay it, it isn't. If they are not, it is.
The only question is "is it a price you are willing to pay?"

Now, I wish they charged less, and I think they could do just as well doing so. The mountain of unpainted plastic and metal in my house speaks to the fact that at least I am willing to buy sets that I think are neat without a definite intention of using them right away. I suspect many other people do the same thing.

However, the price it takes for them to make the things and be in business is completely irrelevant to the exchange between us and them, customer and seller. If it cost them 25$ per terminator, I suspect no one would be willing to pay 26$ for them, regardless of whether a single dollar profit per figure is "over priced" or "fair". Many simply wouldn't be able to afford it.
Just the same, if they charged 3$ for a 10 pack of terminators, their sales might go up, but you wouldn't see my sister rushing out to build a Raven Wing army. She just wouldn't care (or even be aware they existed.)

That's all there is. GW either sells at a price people will pay, or they don't. That price either covers their costs and profits, or it doesn't. There is no "fair," and "over priced" only has relevance in the sense of each individual's perception of what they are willing to pay.

Edited for some bad grammar.

I had to vote no after putting it into the perspective of my other hobbies. Take paintball for example. My marker ran me $650.00, tank was $200.00, pods and pack $75.00, other gear $100.00. Right there is almost a grand and I haven't even hit the field yet. So going for the day. $55.00 for a case of paint, $25.00 field fee and $5.00 for air. $80.00 every time I go out that I'll never see again. Should I decide to sell my marker and equipment, I'll be glad if I can get 50% back on it. Take that same amount of money, buy an army and I can use the same one any weekend for nothing.