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Dragging the thread kicking and screaming back on topic

I actually think kids playing can be a positive experience, BUT it is incumbent on older gamers and staff members/club organisers etc to be mature.

In my experience any child that is involved in a hobby where they interact with adults tends to be much more rounded and socially capable - Re-enactors kids tend to be great, as do those who play in mixed-age-group bands or participate in sports where age is not a factor such as snooker, bowls or fishing.

That said, if the older gamers are prone to temper tantrums, obnoxious behaviour and generally being TFG, the kids will think that this is normal behaviour. A well run gaming event with just the right balance between fun and (self)discipline will help create younger gamers who are a pleasure to play against.

Just my $0.02

Goddamit Sidstler! Why do you take offense to someone who is on your bloody side?

And anyway, I can pay out both you're countries.

UK: Well, actually BBC programs are a blessing (Dr Who), but many of you're kind sound like cats having knifefights.

US: Look, I used to live overseas for several years. In Dubai (that's the middle east). Let's just say that you country is NOT the most popular in the world. And you're people talk funny too.

AUS: How many times can God himself say COOL!

Will there ever be enough of these threads ? Im a teen , and i have been colecting these since i whas 8 ! I dont concider myself annoying , neither do the adults at my club ... infact there are some adults there who act like babys all the time ! I guess there are many that arent like some guys and me that can annoy you and others , but think before you post some thing along the lines of :

"Should i rewrite this ? Should i post this ? Does this make me look stupid ? Can this offend many people without a reason ? etc..."

Yes , no , yes , yes are the answers to this stupid , ignorant thread...

Gretar

My biggest issue with kids is their short attention span. More than once I have come near to outright yelling at them to stop looking around at what everybody else is doing and roll the damned dice.

Sirius42 wrote:besides, we were all space marine collecting kids at some point.

I must be the exception, i was DE kids for one year and then swapped out for Eldar, but if the new dex hits im going back to were i started.

Elfie all the way!

SM (I blame the starter sets), then Eldar, and now I just paint.

Whether black or white, young or old, cylon or human.

A spanker is a spanker is a spanker.
I've met old ones and young ones, I don't care to hang around with kids because I'm 32 and frankly I think that would earn some odd looks, that and I find the noise level and so on tiresome. It's another reason I can't stand in GW shops for long, the noise drives me nuts, kids and redshirts.

I don't really like kids much, not their fault and I can get along with smart ones that only ask interesting questions. I do admire the lack of inbuilt prejudice and cynicism I now possess in metric tons and when a kid was telling me about his space marine chapter and all the cool guys in it I was genuinely happy to listen to him use his imagination.

I play 40k at tables in friends houses, several of my friends smoke and we all swear, drink beer and eat gak food (40k = get in the snacks). I like playing my toy soldier game that way, with the same friends I go to the pub with or sit n play linkup NWN2 with.

I try not to dish out too many anecdotes but I feel this is probably a good place to mention one.

When I first got into the hobby and started attending my local gaming club I was only about 11 years old. I played with my friends until we had learned (most of ) the rules and then we started playing with the older gamers. In one of these games my older opponent had some of his mates show up to the game to watch. At first they where fine but then they started acting rowdy, half way through the game they pulled out a tennis ball and started throwing it at each other, needless to say things escalated until the ball flew across the table and hit my commander, snapping him from his base at his ankles. The base didn't move but the body flew across to the other side of the room and upon hitting the ground shattered into many pieces. These two full grown men then didn't even apologize but just started laughing. This is something that has stuck with me for many years.
Recently a couple of young kids have joined our gaming club, neither of them are older than 12 but they conduct themselves in a respectful manner and understand not only the basics of 40k strategy but they also know that there is more for them to learn, it is good fun to battle with and against them.

So yea, lets not base maturity on age.

Foldalot wrote:These two full grown men then didn't even apologize but just started laughing. This is something that has stuck with me for many years.

Yeah, being a gak is not age defined, you will be meeting them when your wheeled next to each other on the porch of the retirement home. Some remain alittle further down the ladder for their whole lives.

Cheese Elemental wrote:We all see those kids in gaming stores, right? From the peewees to the pre-teens who have a raging passion for Ultramarines. What's your opinion on these younger gamers? How do you interact with them?

Now, I'm one of the younger people at my FLGS (at least, one of the youngest who play competitively), but I don't really feel any sympathy towards kids. They swagger in, all confident that their Ultramarines/Cadians/generic whatever army is the best in the store. Then when you wipe the floor with them, they get all butthurt about it and storm out of the store following a lot of crying and accusations of cheating.

There should really be an age limit on this hobby. If kids weren't allowed to play, Space Marines wouldn't outsell everything else.

Thoughts?

1. Why the hell do you care what sells best?

2. In my almost 19 years of playing 40K I have seen just as many "adults" act "butthurt" and "storm out of the store".

3. It's fun being a "cool kid" and making fun of ultramarines, but fact is most DIY chapters/armeis look like ass, have crap background and are not half as "unique' as the owner thinks they are.

4. Kids are th future of this hobby. The fact that anyone in their pre-teens or teens is still playing miniature games at all in this age of instant gratification and computer game dominance is a miracle and a very good thing. Don't be so quick to drive them away if you want this hobby to be around in 10-15 years.

5. This hobby IS a kids hobby. Its glorified toy soldiers. Many "adults" need to take a deep breathe, accept this and stop pretending it is such serious business.

Give kids a chance - they are the future of this hobby

My opinion is...

There are a few types of younger gamers
1) the wants to learn how to play
2) the over enthusiastic kid
3) the liar
4) the cool kid

At any time in the early stages of a little gamers life they can be or have been that kid.

As older gamers we need to show them proper ways of gaming by example, this includes
a) how to win well/how not to be a D7CK
b) how to lose well/how to accept setbacks
c) how to not be TFG

Honestly. The kids in the game store need people to lead by example... just don't be creepy as you show them!

Although I'm not particularly fond of them, I'll game with them. But as soon as trouble starts, I walk out.

Luckily I've not run into alot of trouble, so... yeah.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:We should all have to pass some sort of test.

Can you find three or more badly written rules, unclear examples or ambiguities in [Insert Codex Here] on your first read through. Those that can't are either too young to play, or GW apologists.

[EDIT]: I also find it hilarious that Cheese's own 'attack me' thread was locked for not being polite. Dakka Dakka - the only place where the Mods can warn you for insulting yourself!!!

Hey! We just don't tolerate self abuse here.

frgsinwntr wrote:My opinion is...

There are a few types of younger gamers
1) the wants to learn how to play
2) the over enthusiastic kid
3) the liar
4) the cool kid

At any time in the early stages of a little gamers life they can be or have been that kid.

As older gamers we need to show them proper ways of gaming by example, this includes
a) how to win well/how not to be a D7CK
b) how to lose well/how to accept setbacks
c) how to not be TFG

Honestly. The kids in the game store need people to lead by example... just don't be creepy as you show them!

Well you forgot the painting-only types :

The my-mini-is-cooler-than-yours kid

The one thats fine with the way his models are

the one that is constantly learning

And also you should remember you can be two types (painting and gaming) for an example i once played the cool kid who whas also the over enthusiastic kid , imagine that !

Gretar

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Whether black or white, young or old, cylon or human.

A spanker is a spanker is a spanker.
I've met old ones and young ones, I don't care to hang around with kids because I'm 32 and frankly I think that would earn some odd looks, that and I find the noise level and so on tiresome. It's another reason I can't stand in GW shops for long, the noise drives me nuts, kids and redshirts.

I don't really like kids much, not their fault and I can get along with smart ones that only ask interesting questions. I do admire the lack of inbuilt prejudice and cynicism I now possess in metric tons and when a kid was telling me about his space marine chapter and all the cool guys in it I was genuinely happy to listen to him use his imagination.

I play 40k at tables in friends houses, several of my friends smoke and we all swear, drink beer and eat gak food (40k = get in the snacks). I like playing my toy soldier game that way, with the same friends I go to the pub with or sit n play linkup NWN2 with.

I find your post insulting to Cylons. I've never had a problem in any game I've played against Cylons, either in tin can or Bylon form.

5. This hobby IS a kids hobby. Its glorified toy soldiers. Many "adults" need to take a deep breathe, accept this and stop pretending it is such serious business.

I completely agree with everything you've said. Except with point 5.

I don't think that wargaming is a kids hobby. I think it's been mentioned before in other threads, but a lot of the topics mentioned in the fluff are pretty intense and definitely not for an eight year old (i.e. genocide, xenophobia, the whole Imperium/Inquisition really) and if a kid just reads this stuff at face value, I'm not sure how appropriate it is. Before, it definitely was a kids hobby. A lot of the fluff (especially in the Orc and Goblin army book) was hilarious and goofy and really fun. I really enjoy the new direction, but still, it would be weird to have a kid come and tell me that "killing everyone on a planet is a totally great and the right response if they disagree with you!". Kids are easily impressed.

BUT, besides that, it takes a certain level of maturity and discipline that most kids don't have. To learn how to assemble, glue, and paint your models properly is something that takes time and patience. Whenever I see a younger players army glued wrong, badly painted (no attempt to stay inside the lines for example), or not painted at all, I'm a little disappointed that no one ever taught them how to or explained a "proper" way of going about the hobby. Now, when I see older folks with the same sort of shenanigans, that just REALLY irks me. These kids will turn into the older folks, and soon the only proper paint jobs will be by Golden Demon painters. Is that what we (as a community) want? While I don't expect anywhere near half the Golden Demon standard for a 12-year-old (if you look at my earlier stuff, I think we'll all laugh), I think it's a reasonable explanation to have them learn basic painting techniques. Whenever I watch current Games Workshop staff teach painting, most of them don't bother explaining why basecoating is important, what drybrushing or highlighting is, or even why you should use primer. They just grab a ratty old brush and just slap paint over the entire model, then talk the kid into the importance of having as many paints as possible (which in turn will lead to an argument between the kid and his/her parents over why the kid should get the aforementioned items).

Yes it's glorified toy soldiers. But it's a shame and a waste for kids (and their parents) to buy a crapload of models and paints, and never take the time to learn how to do it properly.

/offsoapbox.

punkisntdeadyet wrote:

5. This hobby IS a kids hobby. Its glorified toy soldiers. Many "adults" need to take a deep breathe, accept this and stop pretending it is such serious business.

I completely agree with everything you've said. Except with point 5.

I don't think that wargaming is a kids hobby. I think it's been mentioned before in other threads, but a lot of the topics mentioned in the fluff are pretty intense and definitely not for an eight year old (i.e. genocide, xenophobia, the whole Imperium/Inquisition really) and if a kid just reads this stuff at face value, I'm not sure how appropriate it is. Before, it definitely was a kids hobby. A lot of the fluff (especially in the Orc and Goblin army book) was hilarious and goofy and really fun. I really enjoy the new direction, but still, it would be weird to have a kid come and tell me that "killing everyone on a planet is a totally great and the right response if they disagree with you!". Kids are easily impressed.

BUT, besides that, it takes a certain level of maturity and discipline that most kids don't have. To learn how to assemble, glue, and paint your models properly is something that takes time and patience. Whenever I see a younger players army glued wrong, badly painted (no attempt to stay inside the lines for example), or not painted at all, I'm a little disappointed that no one ever taught them how to or explained a "proper" way of going about the hobby. Now, when I see older folks with the same sort of shenanigans, that just REALLY irks me. These kids will turn into the older folks, and soon the only proper paint jobs will be by Golden Demon painters. Is that what we (as a community) want? While I don't expect anywhere near half the Golden Demon standard for a 12-year-old (if you look at my earlier stuff, I think we'll all laugh), I think it's a reasonable explanation to have them learn basic painting techniques. Whenever I watch current Games Workshop staff teach painting, most of them don't bother explaining why basecoating is important, what drybrushing or highlighting is, or even why you should use primer. They just grab a ratty old brush and just slap paint over the entire model, then talk the kid into the importance of having as many paints as possible (which in turn will lead to an argument between the kid and his/her parents over why the kid should get the aforementioned items).

Yes it's glorified toy soldiers. But it's a shame and a waste for kids (and their parents) to buy a crapload of models and paints, and never take the time to learn how to do it properly.

/offsoapbox.

I did not say the content of the game of 40K was good/bad for kids. that is a whole other can of worms.

What i said is that when you boil it down the act of playing a game with tiny toy soldiers IS a kids activity at heart.

Wargaming is a form of what has been a kid's activity for ages. We can talk about how sophisticated and tactical and challenging and complex it is, or whatever but it is still a glorified kid's pastime when all is said and done. To suggets that kids shouldnt play what is essentially a kid's activity is rather ironic...

I absolutely I agree.

All that talk about tactics is a totally different topic. I think we're on the same page!

insaniak wrote: (1)Whether the kid hands over the cash or the parent does, it's still ultimately coming out of the parent's pocket. You have no idea whether or not a given parent only buys when they feel their child has done something to deserve it, or whether or not the kid has racked up 'credit' at home.

(2)And some parents simply don't believe in forcing their children to earn their cash. Some schools of parenting consider that to be one step above slave labor, and all sorts of wrong. If the kid wants something, and you can afford it, you buy it. Some call that 'spoiling your kids'... and some just call it 'providing for them'...

I marked those 1 and 2

1. That is very common around here in Iceland . The kid does all sorts of jobs the parent whants to get a break from them . Or becouse they have asked the kid a billion times and the kid never does it unless getting an award for it . Thats not slavery at all , its called 'teaching life' correclty translated from Icelandic to English . I , for one , have to clean my room , vacoom the whole house and baby sit my little brother(for 6 hours) to get one trip to the store and get to buy something . Why ? My dad wants me to be more neat(clean) around the house and my room , and he takes those 6 hours off his back to go on a date or something . I think its perfectly fair.

2. They should belivie in forcing their children to do stuff they normaly would'nt . Orelse the kid goes out of the house at the age of (?) and does'nt know anything about keeping a household . Its not slavery , its teaching ...

'spoiling your kids'... and some just call it 'providing for them'... = its called spoiling , only the ones that say otherwice are the ones that do this

Gretar

When I first started I was 13, so I was just starting high school the next year, and my parents were happy to get me into the hobby, and about 6 months in I found my FLGS, as before that, being new in Cape Town, I didn't know where/if you could buy warhammer here in South Africa, but when I did, it was a like a godsend, the gamers there were really helpful with me, helped me out, as before that I was playing with friends, and we didn't know the rules as well as we should, but the older gamers helped me alot at the store, and those holidays I played in the league that they had going, beat their number 1 ranked, jumped to the top and stayed there for a good couple of weeks.

Now, 8 years on, most of the old timers have left the club through moving away, etc, so now being one of the oldest at the club it is up to me, and 3 or 4 others to teach the young kids how to play well, but what I hate now a days is that most of them are rude rich pukes who act like they own the world and their parents buy everything for them, I am not saying all of them are like that, but 50-60% of them are, but I am patient with them, and so after a few weeks most of come to the realization that they aren't the center of the world, and settle down.

Sorry for the ramble, but as long as you can be patient with kids, help them to play, correct them, etc etc, then they are fine.

Frazzled wrote:
I find your post insulting to Cylons. I've never had a problem in any game I've played against Cylons, either in tin can or Bylon form.

I only said some cylons were spankers, the dean stockwell ones mostly, oh and the one that got creepy keeping starbuck and telling her they had a baby on new caprica and that camp bastard Lucifer from the original ones, especially him... He has a DoC army for fantasy...

I was the youngest kid in my group when I started playing 10 years ago, and now Im the only one in my early 20s in my current group. There are a few older gents, and a few younger. And everyone has their quirks. I really haven't changed much in those 10 years, emotion wise. I play to have fun, laugh at myself when I get bad rolls, and joke around in general, but I also love to learn. If someone can teach me something, be it about painting, modeling, or the strategy of the game, Ill listen.

There are some younger kids in the group (13-15) that do tend to talk.....ALOT. But its at that breaking point that you want to snap his little neck for asking the same stupid question for the 20th time in 2 weeks, you have to remember your the adult, your looked up to in some of these kids eyes, especially if your really good with your army, and these kids are looking for your advice to make themselves better.

I fine with having younger kids in the hobby. But, as a parent, I don't understand how someone is dropping off a 12 year old at a store for the day. The store is not a daycare service and parents shouldn't expect it to be. I'd be fine with a store requiring that a minor (or even just someone under 15) to have a parent or guardian 'present' (next store at the coffee shop would probably be okay). Plus, from a liability standpoint, I don't understand stores letting kids in without parents. If one kid gets cut on a hobby knife, I can see the lawsuit for failure to adequately supervise their kids (even though the store shouldn't be responsible for it, it could be a play to get a quick out of court cast settlement).

I for one can say I loathed the Space Marines and I will always loathe them in a way. To answer the topic question... I hate children. However, they are a big part of the game...

-J.

gretar wrote:Will there ever be enough of these threads ? Im a teen , and i have been colecting these since i whas 8 ! I dont concider myself annoying , neither do the adults at my club ... infact there are some adults there who act like babys all the time ! I guess there are many that arent like some guys and me that can annoy you and others , but think before you post some thing along the lines of :

"Should i rewrite this ? Should i post this ? Does this make me look stupid ? Can this offend many people without a reason ? etc..."

Yes , no , yes , yes are the answers to this stupid , ignorant thread...

Gretar

Are you a Tau player?

kids are cool.. brats are not.

Honestly, I prefer the little quiet kid who doesn't know the rules and respectfully fawns over your models to the bearded college who love the sound of his own voice.

Kilkrazy wrote:

gretar wrote:Will there ever be enough of these threads ? Im a teen , and i have been colecting these since i whas 8 ! I dont concider myself annoying , neither do the adults at my club ... infact there are some adults there who act like babys all the time ! I guess there are many that arent like some guys and me that can annoy you and others , but think before you post some thing along the lines of :

"Should i rewrite this ? Should i post this ? Does this make me look stupid ? Can this offend many people without a reason ? etc..."

Yes , no , yes , yes are the answers to this stupid , ignorant thread...

Gretar

Are you a Tau player?

No , im a SM , Ork and LoTR PAINTER I barely play Why ask ?